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When someone points a loaded gun at me and starts screaming I just sort of calm down, chill out. What ever anger I was feeling fades away and it lets me calmly re-evaluate the situation and consider cooperating with the authorities in a calm and respectful way.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:21
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I wonder what the city fathers of Hiroshima would say about that.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:24
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When looking at the current events in Germany and Europe, his speech about the failure of democracy and social scientists bringing the world to the brink of chaos, it becomes very prophetic.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:26
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Baronjutter posted:When someone points a loaded gun at me and starts screaming I just sort of calm down, chill out. What ever anger I was feeling fades away and it lets me calmly re-evaluate the situation and consider cooperating with the authorities in a calm and respectful way. I think probably you put down your own firearm or knife or other weapon and do what they tell you.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:26
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Today Mulcair asked Trudeau about his new head of the civil service comparing Carleton grad students to Nazi brown shirts, and Trudeau just said he looked forward to working with Wernick to reestablish the professionalism of the civil service. I mean, look at these thugs: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155415668400541
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Jan 25, 2016 23:28
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Jordan7hm posted:I think probably you put down your own firearm or knife or other weapon and do what they tell you. Obviously, you'd be irrational to do otherwise. Humans are rational actors.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:30
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Jordan7hm posted:I think probably you put down your own firearm or knife or other weapon and do what they tell you. Sure, assuming everyone involved is acting in a calm and rational manner in this otherwise incredibly tense situation. But that's not de-escalating, that's scaring the subject into compliance by threatening to kill them. Using those concepts interchangeably is exactly the problem here.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:31
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Saying that guns de-escalate a situation is like saying that nuclear weapons de-escalate war. They only do so by escalating the stakes to the point that either party continuing their present action risks total destruction, which is not the kind of de-escalation that actually works in the long run because inevitably somebody fucks up and then one or more people dies.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:34
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See, this is why everybody should carry a gun at all times. Somebody cuts you off and gets all road ragey? Just threaten to murder them with your gun until they calm down. Situation de-escalated! Somebody causing a ruckus at the bar? Just take out your gun and threaten to de-escalate the entire magazine into their head unless they calm down and do what you tell them. Problem solved, situation de-escalated! An armed society is a polite society! Trump 2016!
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Jan 25, 2016 23:37
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vyelkin posted:See, this is why everybody should carry a gun at all times. Somebody cuts you off and gets all road ragey? Just threaten to murder them with your gun until they calm down. Situation de-escalated! Somebody causing a ruckus at the bar? Just take out your gun and threaten to de-escalate the entire magazine into their head unless they calm down and do what you tell them. Problem solved, situation de-escalated! An armed society is a polite society! Trump 2016! yeah I'd much rather live in a place where the only people with guns are the gangsters and criminals. maybe when the criminals are running through the streets shooting god fearing civilians so that they can feed their crack habits you'll regret your line of thinking I also like extending arguments to really stupid places. saying police are capable of using guns as a method of forcing situations to change is not even remotely the same as saying everyone should have guns. comparing police using guns to nuclear war is also completely loving retarded
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Jan 25, 2016 23:42
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i actual would rather live in a place where guns are so restricted nobody can have them legally, including the average cop
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Jan 25, 2016 23:45
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Jordan7hm posted:yeah I'd much rather live in a place where the only people with guns are the gangsters and criminals. maybe when the criminals are running through the streets shooting god fearing civilians so that they can feed their crack habits you'll regret your line of thinking The argument is that police are using their guns as a method of de-escalation, since threatening lethal force is not de-escalation, this is a problem. One that's resulting in civilian deaths. If the police believe that pointing a gun at someone can de-escalate a situation, as opposed to simply "resolve" the situation, or believe that those two things are synonymous, then they cannot safely handle a firearm. Whether or not criminals are armed does not change this. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 23:50
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Duck Rodgers posted:Today Mulcair asked Trudeau about his new head of the civil service comparing Carleton grad students to Nazi brown shirts, and Trudeau just said he looked forward to working with Wernick to reestablish the professionalism of the civil service. White men are being silenced!!111!1!1
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Jan 25, 2016 23:53
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infernal machines posted:The argument is that police are using their guns as a method of de-escalation, since threatening lethal force is not de-escalation, this is a problem. One that's resulting in civilian deaths. If the police believe that pointing a gun at someone can de-escalate a situation, as opposed to simply "resolve" the situation, or believe that those two things are synonymous, then they cannot safely handle a firearm. This is also why things like tasers and other less-lethal weapons cannot solve this problem, because they become seen as a more acceptable de-escalation tool (when they should not be seen as one at all), and also reduce the threshold by which someone will think it acceptable to bring one to bear (regardless of how many times it is stressed to a user, that they are provided as an alternative to a firearm will inherently cause that person to feel they are more acceptable to use). I'm not sure that this sort of thinking is only due to poor training either, as it is possible that other factors (cultural, for instance) have encouraged both a change in perception and a change in the sort of people who are applying for police work.
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Jan 26, 2016 00:09
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vyelkin posted:http://www.cp24.com/news/federal-government-to-sign-trans-pacific-partnership-1.2750826 
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Jan 26, 2016 00:41
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Cultural Imperial posted:ITT guns are a deescalation tool There is unironically some pretty good CI posting in this thread. You don't bluff in a use of force situation. You don't present a force option that appropriate for right now that you are prepared to justifiably use right now. You don't go waving your gun around every time somebody's a bit slow taking his hands out of his pockets, good christ. The application of force is not a de-escalation tool; it means de-escalation has failed. You couldn't control the situation properly so now you have to use threats and violence to get your way. A lot of guys, though obviously not a majority because all people are terrible people and cops are people, see resorting to force as a disappointment. The way Forcillo was portrayed suggests he is not one of those guys.
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Jan 26, 2016 00:47
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Jordan7hm posted:I think probably you put down your own firearm or knife or other weapon and do what they tell you. If you were reasonable you wouldn't be wielding a weapon around cops in the first loving place. Pulling a gun -or taser- shuts off the rational mind and triggers fight or flight reflexes. No poo poo people don't behave well in these situations.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:02
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Cultural Imperial posted:ITT guns are a deescalation tool Not everyone has to talk about what you want to talk about.. jeesh
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Jan 26, 2016 01:05
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flakeloaf posted:There is unironically some pretty good CI posting in this thread. Whatever Forcillo was doing he sure wasn't bluffing when he de-escalated Yatim nine times in a row.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:07
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Duck Rodgers posted:Today Mulcair asked Trudeau about his new head of the civil service comparing Carleton grad students to Nazi brown shirts, and Trudeau just said he looked forward to working with Wernick to reestablish the professionalism of the civil service. To be fair, Carleton produces a lot of assholes. Between Preston Manning dictating the curriculum for their political management school, to having Ian Lee (will answer any journo's call if they want conservative voice, regardless of subject) on their payroll, Carleton can be kinda lovely.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:37
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I'm glad our police will soon have assault rifles at the ready 24/7 so they can de-escalate situations with much higher muzzle velocity.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:43
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vyelkin posted:I'm glad our police will soon have assault rifles at the ready 24/7 so they can de-escalate situations with much higher muzzle velocity. Don't worry, they'll be strictly controlled and only deployed in extreme situations as determined entirely by the police them selves.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:59
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Premier Christy Clark is dismissing opposition to the proposed Pacific Northwest LNG project near Prince Rupert. During a media availability in Vancouver Monday, Clark labelled the recent Lelu Island Declaration signatories “the forces of no”. The coalition of heredity First Nations leaders, elected officials, and others wants Lelu Island and nearby Flora Bank off limits to the Petronas-backed LNG terminal over concerns about Skeena salmon habitat. Clark says the world is being divided into two camps: those who say no to everything and those that want to find a way to get to yes. Clark says finding a way to yes, even when it’s very difficult, is the way to create jobs and a future. The Lelu Island Declaration was the culmination of the two-day Salmon Nation Summit which saw up to 300 First Nations leaders, scientists, elected officials, and locals gather in Prince Rupert.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:28
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Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 02:31
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Melian Dialogue posted:Wait, sorry maybe I missed the link or whatever but where was suggested that police draw their weapons and point as a method of de-escalation? Who suggested that this is the case, or is this just an assumption? We're talking about the Forcillo case, where de-escalation was his stated reason for drawing in the first place. Keep up, old chap.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:33
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Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 02:36
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One might say the defense's arguements regarding he simply followed his training is a... Cop out
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Jan 26, 2016 02:40
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Yeah, Forcillo literally was arguing that pointing your gun at someone and screaming is a form of de-escalation. That's not a misunderstanding of him saying it was self defence (he said that too) or an interpretation of something ambiguous, those are his exact words. quote:“Pointing a firearm is considered a form of de-escalation. Loud, clear verbal commands are considered a form of de-escalation,” Forcillo said.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:49
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Melian Dialogue posted:I didn't know that this was his stated testimony, my mistake, I thought this was just conjecture on some posters. You really want to leave this up to the officer's judgement here? Give them an option to say, sure I drew my weapon and aimed it at the suspect, but I just wanted to scare them. This really seems like the kind of thing that should be very black or white, if the gun is aimed at someone, it's because you intend to fire on them, not because you hope it will make them come to their senses. jm20 posted:One might say the defense's arguements regarding he simply followed his training is a... Cop out Evidently not, if what Melian is saying has any connection to actual police training. Helsing posted:Yeah, Forcillo literally was arguing that pointing your gun at someone and screaming is a form of de-escalation. That's not a misunderstanding of him saying it was self defence (he said that too) or an interpretation of something ambiguous, those are his exact words. And presumably that idea didn't spring fully formed into his mind from the aether. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 02:49
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infernal machines posted:And presumably that idea didn't spring fully formed into his mind from the aether. In an ideal world his UOF instructor, being a sane and rational adult, would be there to contradict him.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:59
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Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 03:20
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Pointing a firearm at someone is not de-escalation holy moly it is the exact opposite.
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Jan 26, 2016 04:04
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THC posted:Premier Christy Clark is dismissing opposition to the proposed Pacific Northwest LNG project near Prince Rupert. gently caress the DFO (who Clark is quoting as a scientific authority). The DFO has gone full bore on 'no net loss' and offsite mitigation. Basically it means that you can destroy fish habitat in one place as long as you 'restore' habitat somewhere else. Every academic study on restoration biology has shown that it is not capable of restoring mature environments in a reasonable timeline in ever. So you end up immediately destroying an important fish habitat to build an LNG project or port, and maybe in 50 or 60 years your 'restored' habitat will be able to support the displaced fish species. Not to mention that nature is pretty site specific in a lot of cases, including salmon spawning grounds. e: do I have to mention that the DFO's turn toward no net loss was cemented in 2012 under the Conservative government, as they were trying to make it easier for development to take place. Duck Rodgers fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 04:07
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Maybe she could have gotten a clue when her own riding voted her rear end out
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Jan 26, 2016 04:10
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Cultural Imperial posted:Maybe she could have gotten a clue when her own riding voted her rear end out [Yes] [Not Sure]
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Jan 26, 2016 04:22
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lol gently caress off I'm not voting
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Jan 26, 2016 04:26
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Baronjutter posted:Don't worry, they'll be strictly controlled and only deployed in extreme situations as determined entirely by the police them selves. If the police had rules to follow they wouldn't be effective and instead of deescalating situations they would have to call a judge and get permission first which means dozens would (or wouldn't) die annually
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Jan 26, 2016 04:48
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Cultural Imperial posted:lol gently caress off I'm not voting thus spake the BC populous
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Jan 26, 2016 05:11
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Yeah it's like there's no connection between ignorance and voting because voting is
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Jan 26, 2016 05:21
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MA-Horus posted:Pointing a firearm at someone is not de-escalation holy moly it is the exact opposite. Hit them with your billy-club instead.
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Jan 26, 2016 06:04
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