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Hazzard posted:The one that blew up was made almost purely of leather, rather than a proper reproduction. They made three. I was always confused by where they got the "Irish" leather cannon - it's clearly brought over by a guy who had served in the Swedish army as a mercenary. I guess it makes better television.
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Jan 26, 2016 07:27
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It's probably a racist thing
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Jan 26, 2016 11:10
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Hazzard posted:Come to think of it, how did 17th-19th century navies gain access to so many cannons? When there's at least 100 cannons a ship, that makes stocking a fleet as large as the Royal Navy seem impossible. Why so? (Bear in mind that navy was built up over decades, btw, the service life of a ship of the line was like 50 years)
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Jan 26, 2016 11:37
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mllaneza posted:It turns out that Evan-Thomas was part of a faction in the RN that valued obedience to signals far, far above anything else. Earlier in his career his was part of the Victoria incident. An admiral trying to inculcate Nelsonian initiative and dash into the navy, in favor of following orders and doctrine at any cost, made a hideous mistake. He was attempting a very slick and complicated maneuver and ended up issuing a signal that would guarantee a collision between his flagship and that of the second division. Everyone in a responsible position saw it coming. Everyone in a responsible position followed orders, resulting in the loss of a modern battleship and hundreds of lives. All for the sake of slavish devotion to signals from the flagship. No no no no stop it. Andrew Gordon is a poisonous little turd and his signals uber alles thesis is bullshit. Evan-Thomas didn't do anything wrong at Jutland apart from failing to be a loving telepath. Beatty hosed him over by not explaining anything to him after throwing a hissy fit and demanding the Queen Elizabeths get assigned to the Battlecruiser Fleet, then hosed him over again by having a shambolic communications structure and a signalling officer who was garbage at his job. It was the exact opposite of the Victoria incident you're talking about. In that case Admiral Tryon made an utterly clear but dangerous order that nobody questioned. At Jutland, Beatty was sending out garbled orders or, in Evan-Thomas's case, completely inadequate ones. The Fifth Battle Squadron got exposed to the High Seas Fleet the way it did because Beatty couldn't be bothered to even talk to Evan-Thomas after his ships were moved south to Rosyth. Beatty had an extremely lax command structure and expected people to follow his lead without signalling, but HE DIDN'T TELL EVAN-THOMAS THIS. It's nothing to do with Evan-Thomas being, allegedly, part of a crazy traditionalist conspiracy Freemason faction like Andrew Gordon sketches out. Beatty was a fuckup. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 12:32
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JcDent posted:Maus is becoming a trigger word for me. Why play Germans in War Thunder if that blocky fuckbucket of a child's drawing is you ultimate reward? It's an ugly, horrible piece of poo poo that should only be remembered in in poo poo You Don't Do To Win A War If they're putting the Maus in they should own up to the silliness and go full tilt with this. The Germans should get the Ratte as the ultimate reward. 
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Jan 26, 2016 12:38
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Hazzard posted:Come to think of it, how did 17th-19th century navies gain access to so many cannons? When there's at least 100 cannons a ship, that makes stocking a fleet as large as the Royal Navy seem impossible. Please remember losing your fleet during that time, like the Spanish did two times, could bankrupt a nation. A fleet of warships was a serious investment and ships were slowly build and of course had to serve a shitton of years. The industrial revolution changed this slowly, but of course the nations of the world answered by building larger and more powerful ships, so the investment of time and ressources stayed probably pretty drat close.
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Jan 26, 2016 12:42
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100 Years Ago Time to consider perhaps the biggest unsung hero of the Western Front: Decauville, manufacturers of a near-ubiquitous narrow-gauge railway. Choo-choo! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3s01i3aa7w  Meanwhile, General Joffre is trying to teach his army how to do bite-and-hold and defence in depth. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 13:05
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:No no no no stop it. Andrew Gordon is a poisonous little turd and his signals uber alles thesis is bullshit. I admire the fact that Beatty managed to rile up Jellicoe, one of the most mild-mannered commanders in history, by totally failing to tell Jellicoe any information about the German fleet's direction, speed, disposition or position despite the fact that that was, you know, his job
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Jan 26, 2016 13:21
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Please explain how such a gently caress up managed to get promoted into a position that probably relied a great deal of inter-squadron communication and communicating stuff to others.
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Jan 26, 2016 13:33
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JcDent posted:Please explain how such a gently caress up managed to get promoted into a position that probably relied a great deal of inter-squadron communication and communicating stuff to others. This isn't an isolated case. Meritocratic systems push stubborn know-it-all assholes to the top ranks. There's probably some kind of  element in it. Not many CEOs either are known to be nice persons.Iirc the two top officers in the Battle of Suomussalmi hated each other so much that they wouldn't speak to each other at all, and when they needed to pass some information their lieutenants had to handle the communication. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 13:55
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JcDent posted:Please explain how such a gently caress up managed to get promoted into a position that probably relied a great deal of inter-squadron communication and communicating stuff to others. Personal bravery and initiative early in his career in the Sudan and then during the Boxer rebellion. Beatty was over his head commanding an entire fleet but he was a personally brave and talented officer in positions of less responsibility and that was very important in the RN. Ironically the qualities that got him promoted were highly related to the qualities that made him a poo poo commander of the battle cruiser fleet.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:07
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I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? Would that have even been physically/technically feasible?
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Jan 26, 2016 14:07
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JcDent posted:Please explain how such a gently caress up managed to get promoted into a position that probably relied a great deal of inter-squadron communication and communicating stuff to others. Beatty was a good commander in many ways but his command and control was very sloppy. Arthur Seymour, his Flag Lieutenant (more or less the Royal Navy's version of Communications Officer and Aide-de-Camp) wasn't a signals specialist, so he ended up making a lot of mistakes because he was in over his head. There's also the way the Battlecruiser Fleet came into being in the first place. Beatty started the war commanding the 1st Battle Cruiser Squadron, which had the most modern ships so it was naturally in the front line. By 1916 it was a fleet unto itself with cruiser and destroyers under its umbrella. Beatty's command structure was fine when dealing with a few ships operating as a squadron and whose commanders all know their Admiral and the way he thinks. This is also what went so wrong at Jutland, since Beatty demanded Evan-Thomas's squadron be attached to him, then failed to explain his operating principles and command style to Evan-Thomas. It's an utterly massive oversight on Beatty's part. Having said that, we went on (largely on account of his dashing reputation) to replace Jellicoe as C-in-C Grand Fleet and then became a very successful First Sea Lord during the 1920s. EDIT: That's not to say Beatty didn't get into command at least partially through social connections. But if you condemn him for that, you have to condemn Jellicoe for the same thing since he was Jackie Fisher's golden boy before the war.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? Yes it's feasible. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT_tank But it's probably not as good as just having a single bigger gun.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? Off the top of my head, the ST-II comes to mind;  Think it's 2xD-25 Speaking of hilariously overbuilt / overarmed German projects, I ran across this the other day; http://www.luft46.com/mess/mep10199.html Clearly our fighter aircraft need a 75mm gun in addition to 5 55mm autocannons.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? The M6 Heavy Tank is a marginal example, since as designed it had both a 3" and a 37mm gun in the turret. Considering it was designed in 1940-41 when the 37mm was still thought an acceptable tank gun, I suppose it could count.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? There's also the Ontos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Ontos which I've always thought looked rather Red Alert.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? Also you have tanks with loads of turrets that actually saw service like the T-28 and T-35 but that's not quite the same thing.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? At some point (years ago) I read that the Australians had put two 25 pounders into a Sentinel tank ("Sentinel twin"), and there are photos of it on the internet, but I can't find a really credible source for it right now.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:31
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago Jokey, not-at-all serious suggestion: If you need *Zeppelin-related* material, Jan 31-Feb 1 saw a raid on the British midlands. All the Zeppelins tried to bomb Liverpool and fail, mostly due to difficulties in navigation that border on the absurd. L 19 is brought down by a combination of Dutch rifle fire and mechanical trouble, and the wreck is discovered by a British fishing trawler, who naturally abandon them to die. This incident spawns vitriol in the German Press, more so when the Bishop of London publicly condones this action. Later the trawler would be captured by German E-boats, and the crew would end up in a POW camp.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm sorry for bringing back tank chat, and especially fictional tankchat, but was there ever a tank design that resembled the C&C: Red Alert's Heavy Tank and Mammoth Tank, with two main guns in the turret? Never apologize for tankchat. There have been a number of tanks with a big gun and a smaller gun in the turret (M6, Maus, KV prototype) as well as a few with two identical guns (ST-II, SU-2-122, second KV-7 prototype, MTLS-1G14) or if you're ready for insanity, the first KV-7 and a T-34 prototype turret had THREE (two 45 mm guns and one 76 mm gun). Phoneposting right now, so no pictures, but if you look at my post history I think the question was asked before.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:46
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Libluini posted:Please remember losing your fleet during that time, like the Spanish did two times, could bankrupt a nation. A fleet of warships was a serious investment and ships were slowly build and of course had to serve a shitton of years. Also, remember that unless the cannons are obsolete and damaged chances are they and a bunch of other stuff would be transfered over to another ship in service or construction or put into storage themselves. Old ships themselves when removed from service were sailed and used for other means aside from the occasional musuem ship or for training/ceromonial purposes. Hogge Wild posted:This isn't an isolated case. Meritocratic systems push stubborn know-it-all assholes to the top ranks. There's probably some kind of This is very true, especially amongst Napoleons marshals and generals. Also wasn't this one of the reasons why the Russians lost at Tannenberg? SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 14:50
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spectralent posted:Also you have tanks with loads of turrets that actually saw service like the T-28 and T-35 but that's not quite the same thing. The T-35 basically looks like what you'd get if you asked a 9-year old boy to draw THE MOST AWESOME TANK EVER YOU GUYS, FOR REAL!!!!1!!!!
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Jan 26, 2016 15:06
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Comrade Koba posted:The T-35 basically looks like what you'd get if you asked a 9-year old boy to draw THE MOST AWESOME TANK EVER YOU GUYS, FOR REAL!!!!1!!!! It is the best-worst tank.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:36
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The idea was that you put a tank platoon's worth of firepower on a single tank. The problem then is that you have one engine instead of three and one commander instead of three, which causes problems. The issue was simplified a lot when a high velocity 76 mm gun was invented that could both fire good AP and HE, whereas on the T-35 you had a 76 mm HE chucker and 45 mm guns for AT work.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:40
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Must model ST-II and Me-101 EDIT: Oh, and I'm late on this Triangula train, but Townshend can go gently caress himself JcDent fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 16:01
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feedmegin posted:There's also the Ontos - The Ontos is metal as gently caress. After it levelled the poo poo out of an enemy position, it created enough smoke to shield an advancing platoon 
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Jan 26, 2016 16:31
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Rifle, Multiple 106 mm, Self-propelled, M50
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Jan 26, 2016 16:44
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JcDent posted:Rifle, Multiple 106 mm, Self-propelled, M50 Greek for "thing".
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Jan 26, 2016 16:46
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JcDent posted:Rifle, Multiple 106 mm, Self-propelled, M50 Sorry, I realise it was unclear but I wasn't meaning to imply it was a tank. It's a just cool-looking tank-like thing.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:04
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Do mortars count? The AMOS twin 120mm mortar system developed by Finnish Patria and Swedish Hägglunds looks pretty rad, and is technically way rad. Here put on a CV-90 chassis, but can also be installed in APCs like Patria AMV and even coastal combat boats.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:26
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Oh, I forgot, there was also a double barrel Koalitsiya version, but more recent ones only have one barrel and an improved loading mechanism instead.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:30
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MikeCrotch posted:I admire the fact that Beatty managed to rile up Jellicoe, one of the most mild-mannered commanders in history, by totally failing to tell Jellicoe any information about the German fleet's direction, speed, disposition or position despite the fact that that was, you know, his job
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Jan 26, 2016 17:31
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Nenonen posted:Do mortars count? The AMOS twin 120mm mortar system developed by Finnish Patria and Swedish Hägglunds looks pretty rad, and is technically way rad. Here put on a CV-90 chassis, but can also be installed in APCs like Patria AMV and even coastal combat boats. 
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Jan 26, 2016 17:33
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SeanBeansShako posted:This is very true, especially amongst Napoleons marshals and generals. Also wasn't this one of the reasons why the Russians lost at Tannenberg? Yup. Samsonov and von Rennenkampf hated each other so much that von Rennenkampf failed to come to the aid of Samsonov in time, leading to the full German 8th army taking out Samsonov's 2nd army before it could meet up von Rennenkampf's 1st. Samsonov ended up shooting himself in the woods when he realised the magnitude of the defeat. Having said that, there are a lot of reasons the Russians got a kicking at Tannenberg, and they continued to get a kicking for while after, petty officer disputes or not.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:37
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SeanBeansShako posted:This is very true, especially amongst Napoleons marshals and generals. Also wasn't this one of the reasons why the Russians lost at Tannenberg? One observer who was with the Russian Army during the Russo-Japanese War claimed that in 1905 Samsonov refused to send his cavalry to help Rennenkampf during one of the battles (or the other way around, maybe?), then claimed that the reverse must have happened at Tannenberg. But there is simply nothing to confirm that. It would imply that the two generals decided to get in a pissing contest during a war of unprecedented scale over a ten years old slight, even though both their careers hinged on it. And there is a competing, much more probable claim as to their motivations: Russian documents quite openly suggest that both staffs believed Rennenkampf shouldn't move in early so as not to spook the Germans (the Russians thought they had them on the ropes and didn't want too many to get out of East Prussia), and by the time Samsonov realised he needed Rennenkampf's help, the battle was literally already lost.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:38
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HEY GAL posted:please someone tell me about how jellicoe was chill He wasn't chill as such, he just really liked order and getting the job done with dignity without losing his head. He did lose his cool before the war when Churchill told him to go up to Scapa Flow and fire the current Grand Fleet commander Callahan - he just felt it was really unfair to unceremoniously end this guys career with no warning and didn't want to be the guy to humiliate him in front of the fleet  Also if he liked you he would offer to share half an apple with you after dinner  He was kind of a dork, but in a cute way!Tevery Best posted:One observer who was with the Russian Army during the Russo-Japanese War claimed that in 1905 Samsonov refused to send his cavalry to help Rennenkampf during one of the battles (or the other way around, maybe?), then claimed that the reverse must have happened at Tannenberg. But there is simply nothing to confirm that. It would imply that the two generals decided to get in a pissing contest during a war of unprecedented scale over a ten years old slight, even though both their careers hinged on it. And there is a competing, much more probable claim as to their motivations: Russian documents quite openly suggest that both staffs believed Rennenkampf shouldn't move in early so as not to spook the Germans (the Russians thought they had them on the ropes and didn't want too many to get out of East Prussia), and by the time Samsonov realised he needed Rennenkampf's help, the battle was literally already lost. Huh, I didn't realise all of that was basically a rumour that got out of hand. Interesting!
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Jan 26, 2016 17:44
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MikeCrotch posted:He wasn't chill as such, he just really liked order and getting the job done with dignity without losing his head. He did lose his cool before the war when Churchill told him to go up to Scapa Flow and fire the current Grand Fleet commander Callahan - he just felt it was really unfair to unceremoniously end this guys career with no warning and didn't want to be the guy to humiliate him in front of the fleet
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Jan 26, 2016 17:48
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Nenonen posted:Do mortars count? The AMOS twin 120mm mortar system developed by Finnish Patria and Swedish Hägglunds looks pretty rad, and is technically way rad. Here put on a CV-90 chassis, but can also be installed in APCs like Patria AMV and even coastal combat boats. It can shoot up to 12 grenades in different angles and with different velocities so that they all land in the same spot at the same time.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:50
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Hogge Wild posted:It can shoot grenades in different angles and with different velocities so that they all land in the same spot at the same time.  also i completely agree with you about how meritocratic systems self-select for hard-driving douchebags. they probably turn people who were chill when they started into hard-driving douchebags too, since if you don't work as hard as you can for what you gained you'll get passed over/ignored at court/whatever HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 17:51
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