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Re:tater First, just to be clear, I'm not on a mission to convert anyone, just to make sure people know there is a legit alternative. Your experience mirrors that of a lot of folks. A poorly tuned bandsaw is a poor tool for accurate rips. A wider lower-tpi blade will facilitate more accurate rip cuts, but you need a 14"+ saw in order to tension such a blade. You're not going to get glue-ready rip joints off of a bandsaw (I maintain that you also don't get then off of a table saw but holy hell that is a third rail topic if there ever was one). You can however get consistent rip widths and a surface that only needs a single pass over your power jointer or under your jointer plane. Plus it can do other things, plus its safe. Is it as fast? Well if you're jointing your ripped edges regardless of what it comes off of, pretty much. If you aren't, then no. But I'm a primarily hand tool guy and I don't do woodworking for a living so production speed is a far far smaller concern than space constraints and safety.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:20
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It's not valuable it's a 20+ year old Rockwell belt driven saw with a fence that rides on pipe and needs to be tightened on both sides, also missing riving and blade guard. It bogs down ripping 1" pine.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:29
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Re gem. I don't want to be converted just learn what would work best for me. If I can rip well on a 14" saw that has actual adjustments (my craftsman has about 1 of the 15 things that wood whisperer talks about setting his up) then hey that's fine I'll give it a look. A lot of what I'd build also will use a Dado stack or my router set to run one. If I were to joint something I'd do it with my router and the jointing fence that I've seen built before.. I'm always looking for best bang for buck and best bang for time.. I enjoy woodworking, but I get about 6 months of a woodworking season and also 1 or 2 days a week while the kids are outside and I'm watching and woodworking.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:41
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As a second perspective, I got a Grizzly 14" bandsaw, and when I first tried to use it I couldn't cut a straight line for the life of me. I went over the calibrations three times (which is great for getting familiarity with how the tool works, by the way), replaced the provided blade with a 1/2" Wood Slicer blade, and got some more practice and now I can reliably cut straight rips with it. I still have trouble cutting straight when resawing, but I hardly ever do that so whatever.
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Jan 26, 2016 15:47
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tater_salad posted:Re gem. Grooves and dados are a thing that a bandsaw obviously isn't going to do, but since you've got a router table you've definitely got grooves and rabbets covered. Dadoes maybe, but after learning how to cut dadoes with a backsaw, chisel, and router plane, I'm not sure I'd go back to other methods outside of a production run (which I dont do) GEMorris fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 16:01
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tater_salad posted:Okay now you all have me thinking Alright this got buried and wanted to being it back around
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Jan 26, 2016 18:03
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If you are a chairmaker or woodturner or woodwork in a closet, buy a bandsaw first. If you are a contractor or need high mobility, buy a portable TS or tracksaw first. Everyone else should buy a tablesaw first. Tablesaws are more accurate, offer precision, and are the most versatile machine a woodworker can own. Accuracy and precision are the most important qualities of a TS which is why you should buy the best you can afford. Save up and buy a good one, the idea of upgrading in a year or two will only lead to frustration.
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Jan 26, 2016 19:41
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wormil posted:If you are a chairmaker or woodturner or woodwork in a closet, buy a bandsaw first. If you are a contractor or need high mobility, buy a portable TS or tracksaw first. Everyone else should buy a tablesaw first. Tablesaws are more accurate, offer precision, and are the most versatile machine a woodworker can own. Accuracy and precision are the most important qualities of a TS which is why you should buy the best you can afford. Save up and buy a good one, the idea of upgrading in a year or two will only lead to frustration. Unless: tater_salad posted:Alright this got buried and wanted to being it back around Free-tolerable-usable trumps no-saw-having and you've got something to work with, while you have the luxury of keeping an eye out for That Great Deal on Craigslist imo
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Jan 26, 2016 19:57
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wormil posted:If you are a chairmaker or woodturner or woodwork in a closet, buy a bandsaw first. If you are a contractor or need high mobility, buy a portable TS or tracksaw first. Everyone else should buy a tablesaw first. Tablesaws are more accurate, offer precision, and are the most versatile machine a woodworker can own. Accuracy and precision are the most important qualities of a TS which is why you should buy the best you can afford. Save up and buy a good one, the idea of upgrading in a year or two will only lead to frustration. I know we're never going to agree on this, but "woodwork in a closet" is hyperbole. Also if you plan on being hand tool centric most of the ts advantages go out the window. It comes down to what you want machines to do, if you have an expectation that wood off of a machine is "done" and ready to be a part in your piece of furniture, then commit to the best tablesaw you can buy and a lifetime of jig building.
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Jan 26, 2016 19:59
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I "could" get a free band saw too.. from the link.. I need to do more research and soul searching if I want to deal with the band or the table.. if I can get repeatable cuts each piece without adjustment then I'm down with a bandsaw I'm more than down I'm excited because a band takes less room. Also I could probably convince wife to do a 1200-1500 table from HD since the first 600 is "free" But need portability, I can't stick a non moving table saw in my garage I need to park there in winter, and move it around for kids toys etc. 1/2 of woodworking is building jigs.. for routers and saws. The question still stands though for if I decide table saw. Delta or dewalt? Delta seems to have a more stable stand, dewalt is 15 amp and has a slightly bigger max rip size.
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Jan 26, 2016 20:17
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tater_salad posted:1/2 of woodworking is building jigs.. for routers and saws. It doesn't have to be. If you use hand tools it most definitely isn't. This is the legacy of norm right here. tater_salad posted:The question still stands though for if I decide table saw. If you're going table saw: sawstop, no question, save the extra money and just buy the sawstop. It's both safer and also arguably the highest quality traditional style cabinet saw made today.
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Jan 26, 2016 20:40
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I figured they only did stationary, I may wait and invest in one, my fingers are worth $900 to me.
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Jan 26, 2016 20:51
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Their contractor saw is very good and is only around $1500. My buddy has one, it is way higher quality IMO than any other contractor saw out there. We had a full size cabinet sawstop in grad school, it saved at least three hands while I was there (thankfully never triggered on my watch). The only company that built trunions like sawstop was INCA on their 2100 series full sized cabinet saw. You keep mentioning mobility, are you aware of mobile bases?
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Jan 26, 2016 20:59
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Sure am but also size usually a contractor saw has smaller table than a standing cab.saw
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Jan 26, 2016 21:18
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GEMorris posted:3-phase in residential housing? Jesus, Scandinavia is magic Christmas land all year. More on-topic I took delivery of my 8" jointer/planer combo machine. It needs more tuning and the planer definitely needs an extended table. The only real downside so far is that jackplaning pallet wood into shape used to be my excuse to not bother with cardio at the gym.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:08
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On the subject of table saws, have a PSA: Use push sticks/blocks, gripper, or whatever gets your hands away from the blade regardless of what kind of cut it is. I had my first table saw incident last night while cutting some blind dados for a small gate frame. A piece got bound up somehow and kicked back a couple inches. My hand was in a good position, fingers above blade height, but when the wood moves that fast, your hand doesn't move with it. I always try to be conscious of the 'direction of force' relating to my hands and body, making sure that if I or the tool were to slip I wouldn't go straight into it (thank you to chisels for teaching me that lesson over and over). If I were pressing down onto the wood instead of mostly-forward, I would have lost at least an entire finger if not more. If I were pressing in from the side, I could have easily lost multiple fingers. Regardless, I got really, really lucky. Did I mention I got lucky? Remember I had a dado stack in. Things I did wrong: -I didn't have stop blocks setup because it didn't require being terribly precise. That likely would have prevented this as long as the block didn't get knocked out of the way. Not sure if it would have made the kickback itself better or worse (wood never left the blade). -After the initial plunge, I could/should have used my Gripper or even a couple push sticks. It may have even prevented the wood from binding in the first place because I wouldn't have had to focus so much on hand placement etc. Doing something like a blind dado where you don't even see the blade really gives a false sense of security. Echoing words of everyone else who has had something like this happen, it happens fast. I'm still kinda in shock thinking about it and what could have happened.  not really gory, probably the least possible damage that could happen sticking your finger into a blade. Can't really see it but there is another cut in line with the side of my nail, no bigger than a papercut. I got hit by 2 teeth. Did I mention I got really, really lucky? Even just a couple more mm would have left the top of my finger mangled or worse. Instead I got a band-aid and a tetanus shot. So yea, be careful. Always be conscious of where your hands/fingers are and where they will go if the wood was no longer supporting them. Make push sticks for specialty cuts where normal ones don't work or aren't safe. bimmian fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 22:39
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A tool where critical mangling mistakes are that easy to make maybe, just maybe, shouldn't be the default suggestion of the first stationary woodworking tool to buy.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:21
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GEMorris posted:A tool where critical mangling mistakes are that easy to make maybe, just maybe, shouldn't be the default suggestion of the first stationary woodworking tool to buy. Not many other tools are such a staple of a woodworkers shop though. I got a nice set of push sticks that don't mind at all if I cut them up. In other news I bought a DW733 planer used off CL. Advertised as "Like new" and "Barely used" Which I knew should have been code for: "Covered in paint splatter!" "Mangled blade and feed plate!"  I'm really kicking myself for not taking a closer look, but I sort of knew I'd be replacing the blade anyways. He didn't include the dust shroud either which sucks The feed plate was really the worst part of it all. Huge gouges in it that leave grooves in the wood.  I ended up ordering a replacement feed plate and dust shroud from dewalt, $100 there and new blades were 35 Meaning I spent 395 for a loving used planer when I could have gotten a new one for 5 bucks more. God dammit
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Jan 27, 2016 00:42
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The blades in it are double sided. Check to see if they were ever switched around, which I doubt. You could put a piece of melamine over the base plate. I scratched mine like that before.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:46
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mds2 posted:The blades in it are double sided. Check to see if they were ever switched around, which I doubt. The blades are only single sided unfortunately. Melamine is a good idea though. The real reason I ordered from dewalt was for the shroud, the plate was only 25
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Jan 27, 2016 00:49
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MickRaider posted:The blades are only single sided unfortunately. Melamine is a good idea though. The real reason I ordered from dewalt was for the shroud, the plate was only 25 Or you can glue plastic laminate down on it, smoother surface, less friction.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:22
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I think the real solution to which tablesaw to buy is to park outside in the Winter, convert your garage to a shop and then buy a cabinet saw. That's what I did, I do have to start my wife's car in the winter, but that's a small price to pay for a dedicated woodworking shop. Also, to add to the bandsaw vs tablesaw debate, I'm a firm believer in the bandsaw, I didn't get a tablesaw until about 2 months ago. I've lived with only a bandsaw for the other ~3 years and would go back to only the bandsaw if space ever came to an issue in the future. No problem getting accurate rips within 1/16" and it usually took an extra 30 seconds to clean up with a handplane. Then again, I didn't feel that way when I had a crappy 3 wheel bandsaw, it wasn't until I upgraded to my 16", 3hp, Laguna that I really fell in love with a bandsaw.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:31
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Meow Meow Meow posted:Also, to add to the bandsaw vs tablesaw debate, I'm a firm believer in the bandsaw, I didn't get a tablesaw until about 2 months ago. I've lived with only a bandsaw for the other ~3 years and would go back to only the bandsaw if space ever came to an issue in the future. No problem getting accurate rips within 1/16" and it usually took an extra 30 seconds to clean up with a handplane. Then again, I didn't feel that way when I had a crappy 3 wheel bandsaw, it wasn't until I upgraded to my 16", 3hp, Laguna that I really fell in love with a bandsaw. Just to add one thing to this: the only good three wheel bandsaw to have been manufactured in the history of the human race is the Inca 710. Every other example should be avoided like the plague.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:33
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Mr. Mambold posted:Unless: I disagree. Beware the trap of instant gratification. Over and over I've read of people who bought a portable saw and within months were wishing they had something more substantial. Years ago I went through the same dilemma, buy a cheap portable or wait a year and buy a better quality saw. I chose to wait and have never regretted the decision. In the meantime I did woodworking with handsaws, jigsaw, circular saw, and an electric drill. Portables are getting better, but the strength of a TS is it's accuracy and precision and that's exactly where portables are lacking. Portables are great for guys who really need to move a saw frequently. But a used Delta contractor would be less expensive than a Dewalt portable and many times over a better saw. It's true the $600 is a gift but it's a resource and I would try to maximize the benefit rather than throw it away on a temporary saw. If I had $600 to burn at HD, I would buy a Dewalt Planer http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-15-Amp-13-in-Corded-Planer-DW735/100011483 I know, 'What good is a planer without a saw?' but it's a good machine to own and at some point the person will be thankful to have bought it. Another option is spend the $600 on a good drill press or bandsaw. In any case, I would spend it on something that I wouldn't need to upgrade in the foreseeable future. GEMorris posted:... "woodwork in a closet" is hyperbole. Guilty. You wrote earlier that you aren't on a mission to convert anyone but you tend to sperg on about bandsaws; and express irrational angst toward tablesaws. They are tools. They have their purpose. Tablesaws are more accurate, more precise, and can do more than any other machine in the shop. The only thing close to being as versatile is a router. As for safety, 100% of tablesaw "accidents" are user error (okay, maybe 99.99999%, I'm sure there is an exception somewhere); getting hurt is not an inevitability. But bandsaws have their own qualities, they are excellent for curves, preferred for resawing, and if you are Jimmy Diresta you can even do sculpting or cut your thumb off with one. So do I have a problem with someone starting out on a bandsaw? No. I believe a tablesaw is more useful for most people but a bandsaw can work too. A good bandsaw is a better investment than a crappy tablesaw, since they cost about the same. I just don't understand the urge to villainize table saws. [Note; in my head this is in a conversational tone, not argumentative; hopefully it comes across that way. I enjoy a spirited friendly debate.]
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Jan 27, 2016 04:31
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Nope, not taken as argumentative. Just as I'm not trying to come across as spergin. First off, I agree that a $600 planer (or bandsaw) is a far far better investment than a $600 tablesaw. Second, I think we just have a fundamental philosophical difference when it comes to how we consider power tools. You seem to want a precise machine that can give you a piece of wood that matches your spec. Essentially machining in wood. Get a good enough machine and all the work is in the setup, after that you simply get the expected result. This is the Norm school of thought, I don't subscribe to it (and I hope my description of it does not come across as too derisive of it). I just want to make it clear that I've been on this road, I've both worked and taught in a university wood shop with very good equipment, I do have an appreciation for being able to set a bessy fence at a specific width and get exactly that as a result. I want machines to take the drudgery out of woodworking, not to BE woodworking. I don't want to have to wear hearing and dust protection all the time, that's not fun. (I was out of woodworking for 4 years because of an acute wood dust allergy I developed due to overexposure.) If a smaller set of powered woodworking tools can take the drudgery out of woodworking (primarily ripping and thicknessing) then I will gladly take on the task of performing all the other operations with hand tools, because to me, that's what I want out of woodworking. I am not a factory, nor do I need to emulate one. (This is more the Underhill/Schwarz line of thinking). I don't want setting up a machine to be my skill, I want using a hand tool to be my skill, so I'm going to focus on that. A table saw is too demanding of space and risk to warrant a place in my shop. On safety: You have a really consistent line of blaming the operator for table saw accidents. So what? Any tool that makes it that easy to make an operator accident that results in maiming is, as I said earlier, probably not the best tool to recommend as a first tool. This, far more than the other disagreements, is where I tend to get spergy. Table saws are objectively less safe than bandsaws, and if a person is going to insist on the table saw, shouldn't we at least advocate for the ones with a proven safety mechanism that compensates for human error rather than ignoring the graveyard just because you personally haven't had a serious accident?
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Jan 27, 2016 04:46
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tater_salad posted:I "could" get a free band saw too.. from the link.. I need to do more research and soul searching if I want to deal with the band or the table.. if I can get repeatable cuts each piece without adjustment then I'm down with a bandsaw I'm more than down I'm excited because a band takes less room. Can't comment on dewalt but I have the Delta. The Delta is plenty mobile on its wheels within your work area. If you need to shift it around other things and your floor is generally flat it's no issue. If you need to move it up or down stairs or to another room you will need friends.
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Jan 27, 2016 04:56
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Already have a 12" delta planer, the $400 kind.. some of my gift card cash will be amazon to buy new blades and set gauge because mine is gone. Oh poo poo lost a huge edit I will for the most part be dealing with sheet goods so here's my thought. Take around $300 to get this. 1. Blades and gauge for planer 2. Better circ saw guide like this http://m.lowes.com/pd/BORA-WTX-36-in-Clamp-Edge-Saw-Guide/50261615 3. Porter cable Router dovetail / box joint jig (I'm making lots of of box things. 4. Material to make a better router table. 5. Clamps out the rear end. Worry about table saw / band saw later or get an okay one sometime from craigs.. I've seen some decent looking (didn't see in person) delta contractors go up for under 100 but I was slow to act. 2nd edit Long rear end part rebuilt Reason I want a table saw.. makes making box easy becsuse I cz set at around 30 inches and the wood will be that same ~30 inches each cut time till I move the fence. This is good for boxes since square is more important than the 2 sides being exactly 30 inches. The $600 deltas limitation is it only goes to 30 so if I wanted 36 I'm hosed. Band saw seems less foe sheers and more for smaller work.. but can be adapted to sheets. But to me it seems like I'd be limited to smaller dimensions than even the delta. I'm going to do some more youtube watching and reading nd go from there. But I think the above plan is better for my woodworking goals as they are now. tater_salad fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 05:15
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Nobody should touch a table saw under any circumstances until you invest in a safety training course and can work on one supervised. You should also factor into the cost a magnetic featherboard, a grrripper, and a bunch of push sticks. There are a plethora of woodworkers who have long and happy careers without so much as a scratch from a tablesaw, because they know how to use it. That being said I have a real concern about tater (no offense dude) because he doesn't seem to even understand what a mobile base is. "Stationary saw"... really? A friend of my dad's lost a couple of fingers raising a blade through a piece of plywood on his tablesaw, something he had done a hundred times before and never had a problem with. Is it something you can do without incident? Sure. Is it the kind of thing you'd get confident with over time, and maybe start to think "man it takes to long to set up the safety stuff, I've never had an accident before.... let's see how it goes"? yep, absolutely. And that, is a recipe for disaster. Tablesaws top the list for accidents (something like 40% of all workshop accidents), but that's partially because they're the most common tool, by far. Lathe injuties, in my mind, are the most gruesome. Somewhere on the web there's an ongoing list of workshop injuries, and it includes photos. Some of them are absolutely heartbreaking. The worst that I remember is a girl who just didn't tie her hair back, and got sucked into a lathe and bled to death because she was in the lab alone and couldn't get freeEDIT: aaaaand the top post in r/woodworking right now is a photo of a dude who sent a chisel into his arm and, well, let's just say there's some tearout Guitarchitect fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 05:56
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Guitarchitect posted:Nobody should touch a table saw under any circumstances until you invest in a safety training course and can work on one supervised. You should also factor into the cost a magnetic featherboard, a grrripper, and a bunch of push sticks. There are a plethora of woodworkers who have long and happy careers without so much as a scratch from a tablesaw, because they know how to use it. That being said I have a real concern about tater (no offense dude) because he doesn't seem to even understand what a mobile base is. "Stationary saw"... really? http://m.woodcraft.com/Product/8469..._GbsaAto_8P8HAQ 70 inches isn't a small amount of space when you have to compete with 3 power wheels 3 bikes,other various outdoor kid things. a riding mower, push mower, 3 sets of shelves, 1 fridge 1 deep freezer portable miter stand, sander, router table, band and band saw. why don't you have a shed you say. I sure do.. rider is exactly 1 inch too wide, that's where my pool stuff, snowblower and more kids stuff goes.
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Jan 27, 2016 06:06
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tater_salad posted:Yeah its more having a large rear end table taking up a lot of real estate. who said you have to buy one that big?! Unless you're a cabinetmaker, you can get their contractor saw (unless you need 3hp why would you go for the cabinet saw?) you'll probably find that 90% of your stuff can be done without the wing on the right. When you do need the extra support, that's what foldaway support tables are for, or sawhorses, or those rollerball stands, or whatever. There's a hundred examples across the web. It's also a great place to put your router table. I have an old Rockwell 6201 ($100 CAD on CL  ) sitting on a mobile drawer base with a router table in a 8x14 shop, and was able to build this 6' long credenza by moving it around as needed.Look at what this guy did with his cabinet saw. Here it is all opened up, and here's where it sits when it's not in use. Source is this thread on LJ. Anyway, my original point is that everyone makes a stationary saw. It's just that some of them include mobile bases, and others don't so you have to buy/make one.
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Jan 27, 2016 06:48
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Guitarchitect posted:Look at what this guy did with his cabinet saw. Here it is all opened up, and here's where it sits when it's not in use. Source is this thread on LJ. Wow. This is seriously awesome, and it stows super well.
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Jan 27, 2016 07:03
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GEMorris posted:On safety: You have a really consistent line of blaming the operator for table saw accidents. It's not about blame, it's about accepting responsibility. I view TS injury as a choice. It is possible to operate a TS safely and every time you make a cut, you make that choice -- be safe and focus on the task; or don't. Some people believe that getting injured can happen to anyone, but in my experience there are people who get injured and people who don't. I grew up on a farm and dangerous machinery was just a part of everyday life but there were people like my dad who would stupidly stick his hand into running machines because he didn't want to take an extra minute to shut it down. He never got hurt but frequently made the choice to risk injury to save a minute of time. My neighbor who year after year kept cutting himself with a chainsaw. I can give many anecdotal examples of people who repeatedly hurt themselves and likewise people who worked their entire lives with barely a scratch; it all boils down to priorities. I'm really paranoid about it. One day I was cutting and realized I wasn't 100% focused on the task. I got the cold sweats and stopped working for awhile; it actually scared me. As for Underwood vs Norm; it's fun in a Sunday football, go My Team, kind of way but I learned woodworking before Norm and the The New Yankee Workshop. I use the most expedient tool for the job. If it's the TS, I use that. If it's the BS ... if it's a handsaw ... you get the picture. I do wish I had discovered Roy Underhill when I was young and first learning because his lessons apply to any kind of woodworking. By the time I got into hand tools I was in my late 30's and somewhat set in my ways. I'm never going to be a 100% hand tool woodworker. ======================================== ON Another Subject --- For the first time in a long while we need more furniture for the house, 2 end tables for the couch, a side table for my chair (with remote control storage), a bench and table next to the door. No idea yet what style it will be but I'm already excited about it.
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Jan 27, 2016 07:31
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Yeah I used the wrong term.. "professional" not "Stationary" a "professional" saw is hardly movable from what I've seen, just didnt know the specific term for the style. A professional saw is what I thought folks were pointing me towards since The delta I was looking at was a contractor saw on a mobile base. I thought get a better saw meant, go to a cabinet style, not delta's not that good go to a better company. I asked about the dewalt that was more of a job site saw that had one of those lovely(maybe) collapsible bases because folks in this very thread said it had a good and accurate fence which made me ask about. The other reason was it it was also a saw that was available for $0* *Plus tax since I have the ability to get $600 in HD gift cards. I know wings are a great place to put your router table.. that's exactly where my router/table is sitting at this very moment I spent an evening making a router table to sit on the wing of my current saw. My initial question was "is the delta 10.inch contractor saw for $600 worth it/a decent saw for a weekend warrior who has space constraints" That digressed into  about table vs bandsaw as first good/decent quality saw. Then it took a turn towards  get a better saw as your first saw (which was kind of what I was asking 2 pages ago), as well as talks about "Stationary" vs "mobile" , talks about fin-gnats and table saws stalk you at night to take them away, back to bandsaw a second, then I think back to "stationary vs mobile one more timeLike i said.. I think my dollars would be better spent upgrading the quality / ease of use for my current equipment and revisit table saw / band saw at a later date. I don't want to drop 1200 into something in may lose interest in In a year or two. I could take that 600 saw and probably sell it on CL for 2-3 in 2 or hang onto it for when I need to do something with a ts/bs. If I go to a 1200 saw it's harder to sell for 1/3 or watch collect dust, since the loss could have gone to car repair tools (something that I also share my garage with) Thanks for all the things to think about, I'll pine it all over for a bit and see what I come out with for what I think fits my woodworking style / needs. tater_salad fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 14:10
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quote not edit
tater_salad fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 14:23
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wormil posted:It's not about blame, it's about accepting responsibility. I view TS injury as a choice. It is possible to operate a TS safely and every time you make a cut, you make that choice -- be safe and focus on the task; or don't. Some people believe that getting injured can happen to anyone, but in my experience there are people who get injured and people who don't. I grew up on a farm and dangerous machinery was just a part of everyday life but there were people like my dad who would stupidly stick his hand into running machines because he didn't want to take an extra minute to shut it down. He never got hurt but frequently made the choice to risk injury to save a minute of time. My neighbor who year after year kept cutting himself with a chainsaw. I can give many anecdotal examples of people who repeatedly hurt themselves and likewise people who worked their entire lives with barely a scratch; it all boils down to priorities. I'm really paranoid about it. One day I was cutting and realized I wasn't 100% focused on the task. I got the cold sweats and stopped working for awhile; it actually scared me. I know exactly what you're talking about here, from guys who were injury prone, to that moment of clarity when you realize you weren't paying attentions. wormil posted:As for Underwood vs Norm; it's fun in a Sunday football, go My Team, kind of way but I learned woodworking before Norm and the The New Yankee Workshop. I use the most expedient tool for the job. If it's the TS, I use that. If it's the BS ... if it's a handsaw ... you get the picture. I do wish I had discovered Roy Underhill when I was young and first learning because his lessons apply to any kind of woodworking. By the time I got into hand tools I was in my late 30's and somewhat set in my ways. I'm never going to be a 100% hand tool woodworker. A good post. I remember watching Roy a few times on PBS when his hair was black, and just shaking my head that he could do all that, and that he had the time to do it that way.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:46
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tater_salad posted:Yeah I used the wrong term.. "professional" not "Stationary" a "professional" saw is hardly movable from what I've seen, just didnt know the specific term for the style. Don't get snowed in on spending thousands on new equipment. I mean it's your duty as an american, but I won't tell anyone.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:47
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Mr. Mambold posted:A good post. I remember watching Roy a few times on PBS when his hair was black, and just shaking my head that he could do all that, and that he had the time to do it that way. Thing is, outside of "production work" (making many of the same thing), hand work isn't markedly slower when you count in all the time needed to make jigs and set up the machine. The big big exception to this is ripping and thickness planing, which is why I will also never be a completely hand tool based woodworker. It seems really daunting, the first few times are definitely slow, but once you have any level of comfort with the hand tool operation, its remarkably fast (and IMO much more pleasant). Hand sawn dadoes for some reason just intimidated the hell out of me, then I watched Schwarz do it on the woodwrights shop and I decided to give it a go. By the second dado it was like second nature.
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Jan 27, 2016 16:02
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GEMorris posted:Thing is, outside of "production work" (making many of the same thing), hand work isn't markedly slower when you count in all the time needed to make jigs and set up the machine. The big big exception to this is ripping and thickness planing, which is why I will also never be a completely hand tool based woodworker. I was
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Jan 27, 2016 16:17
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About that swedish pilar drill a few pages back. I asked my friend who knows old machines such as these like the back of his hands and he said it was basically one of the best pilar drills made in it's size class. He spotted some broken parts and said it's value in this state is around 800 euros. Renovated it should be around 1500 euros.
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Jan 27, 2016 16:32
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His Divine Shadow posted:Don't get snowed in on spending thousands on new equipment. I mean it's your duty as an american, but I won't tell anyone. I mean I can always put it on my credit card!* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUqDHW0jmkw *or not, I like my utilization to be under 30% which gives us Americans around 20-30 points on our credit scores which adds to the cost of vehicles, insurance, mortgages etc.
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Jan 27, 2016 16:34
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