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I wouldn't worry about it. It's pretty common for folks that want to leave to wait until fully earned bonuses from the prior year are paid out before giving notice. My company doesn't pay prior year bonus until the books have passed public audit, which is usually sometime in March. If you leave before the bonus is paid out, you don't get it. Waiting to be paid the bonus you earned last year isn't a bridge burning move in my experience.
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Jan 20, 2016 20:52
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I quit a couple of weeks after being paid out a $20k bonus and no one gave a poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:28
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Grumpwagon posted:Am I burning a bridge by taking the bonus? I likely will regardless, I'm just wondering if this matters or is insignificant.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:53
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Grumpwagon posted:Am I burning a bridge by taking the bonus? I likely will regardless, I'm just wondering if this matters or is insignificant.
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Jan 21, 2016 00:52
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Grumpwagon posted:Am I burning a bridge by taking the bonus? I likely will regardless, I'm just wondering if this matters or is insignificant. Appreciate the responses. I figured as much, but it's good to have the confirmation. Grumpwagon posted:I think i should counter for another 10k to make up for the match and bonus, and also ask for immediate starts to the benefits. Thoughts about the situation or my counter proposal? I countered with the terms as above. They moved the health insurance date up, but otherwise claimed I was at the top of their budget for this position. Considering I gave $100k desired salary to the recruiter (after dodging the question for a long time), I think I'm going to accept the $100k happily. Maybe I could have gotten more, but a 33% increase (plus possible bonuses) and the opportunity to learn some new stuff isn't bad. If they turn out to be cheap with raises after this, or if the 401(k) situation doesn't improve (they claim it will, but obviously I'm skeptical), in 2-3 years, I've learned a bunch more valuable skills and can try again. Thanks for the help everyone. Reading this thread from the beginning has earned me at least $50k/year in raises total over the last 3 years.
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Jan 21, 2016 01:00
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Are bonuses common in SV/NYC programming jobs?
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Jan 21, 2016 06:09
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Analytic Engine posted:Are bonuses common in SV/NYC programming jobs? signing bonuses are common. so are equity grants, usually employee stock options or restricted stock units. i have never seen straight bonuses though
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Jan 21, 2016 08:16
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Grumpwagon posted:Appreciate the responses. I figured as much, but it's good to have the confirmation. AWESOME! Also good on you for taking the winning offer. As I'm fond of repeating, it's important to know when you've won. A 33% increase in compensation and career progression is a definite win, and being overly stubborn about getting MORE MORE MORE could leave you with no increase in the same job you're in. You had a goal in mind at the outset, were stingy with dealing out information about it, didn't fall into any of the classic negotiation pit traps, and achieved your goal in the end. You should start posting advice for other people. 
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Jan 21, 2016 15:23
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the talent deficit posted:signing bonuses are common. so are equity grants, usually employee stock options or restricted stock units. i have never seen straight bonuses though I work for a large SV tech company that does bonuses. I believe Facebook and Google both include bonuses as part of total compensation for engineers.
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Jan 22, 2016 04:14
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:AWESOME! Thanks, I really appreciate the vote of confidence. The best part of this whole thing by far was after the company declined to move their offer up at all, the external recruiter's boss called and tried to hard sell me on the position. "I wish these were MY benefits!" "Well, just think about the opportunity, isn't this something you'd like to do?" After I told him I wouldn't rule out taking a counteroffer from my current employer (I don't intend to, but I'm not going to rule it out just because some salesman tells me I shouldn't) he pulled out the " *sounds disappointed* Well, we worked so hard to get you some extra money, I'd hate to have wasted that effort." After that call, even the recruiter texted me "Sorry about that, he really read you wrong."
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Jan 22, 2016 14:08
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Grumpwagon posted:Thanks, I really appreciate the vote of confidence. He thought you were a push over?
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Jan 22, 2016 15:30
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MickeyFinn posted:He thought you were a push over? Clearly
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Jan 22, 2016 19:24
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Right now I work for a union contractor in the piping industry as an installer. Recently, I was approached by a service technician who told me to get in contact with his hiring manager because I scored very well on an aptitude test. Since the base pay rate is collectively negotiated, the prospective employer will know exactly what I'm paid. However, service technicians are typically given several perks not available to installers (paid vacation, take-home vehicle) and are expected to work overtime. Furthermore, the aptitude test was the first round of an ongoing apprenticeship competition that will wrap up when I either lose out or gain recognition as the best at what I do in three countries. I'm not particularly confident in the latter. I'm just not sure that this will be the last job offer. What's my best play here? Rationale fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 16:37
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just got an offer. my salary requirement was between $90k and $120k, but they offered $85k. i brought this up during the conversation where the to-be boss offered the job. they said they had a budget of $90k, and since i didn't have direct experience overseeing people, a big part of the job, they decided $85k was best. i currently make $70k, and the to-be boss knows this. i also really, really want the job, and they know this. practically every benefit the new place offers is better. any chance i can get more? any other potential perks i should look into instead since this is under the requirements i gave them? i'm happy with $85k...but would be happier with more. abelwingnut fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 05:08
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Abel Wingnut posted:just got an offer. my salary requirement was between $90k and $120k, but they offered $85k. i brought this up during the conversation where the to-be boss offered the job. they said they had a budget of $90k, and since i didn't have direct experience overseeing people, a big part of the job, they decided $85k was best. i currently make $70k, and the to-be boss knows this. i also really, really want the job, and they know this. practically every benefit the new place offers is better.
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Jan 27, 2016 05:24
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essentially, database admin/development in nyc. i've got 4yrs of experience. not sure what the typical salary is, but i think 90 to 120 covered it. and like i said, i really want the job. it's at at one of the bigger museums in the world and that's kind of my thing. also really want out of my current job.
abelwingnut fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 05:27
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Abel Wingnut posted:essentially, database admin/development in nyc. i've got 4yrs of experience. not sure what the typical salary is, but i think 90 to 120 covered it. and like i said, i really want the job. it's at at one of the bigger museums in the world and that's kind of my thing. also really want out of my current job. As for your current situation, unfortunately you've completely hamstrung your negotiating position. One play you might make is to simply ask for more time to consider the offer. Don't say why. You want them to think you're waiting for other offers, but don't actually tell them that or act dishonestly in any way. That sort of thing catches up to you eventually. Something like "Thank you for the offer. I'm excited about the possibility of joining your team, but I'd like to give this important decision the consideration it deserves. Can you extend the deadline on the offer to <whenever>?" If they respond with no, you could respond with "Thank you, but $85k is lower than the amount I'm willing to accept without entertaining other options. I hope to have an answer for you before the deadline." On the positive side, they've already decided you're the best person for the job. Think about that...the hiring manager has already decided that no one else in the whole world has as much potential to succeed at the job as you do.
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Jan 27, 2016 05:52
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Abel Wingnut posted:essentially, database admin/development in nyc. i've got 4yrs of experience. not sure what the typical salary is, but i think 90 to 120 covered it. and like i said, i really want the job. it's at at one of the bigger museums in the world and that's kind of my thing. also really want out of my current job. I have no idea if that offer is good relative to others in the field/region, but it doesn't look like you do either and that the mistake made here. Did that minimum $90k you threw out (don't use ranges) include what appears to be better benefits? I don't think you've done your homework on either the compensation for people doing your job in your region or what you want to do that job in your region. That is why you are uncertain here, not because the negotiations have gone well or poorly. Indeed, it is hard to tell whether it even has gone one way or the other. Your salary demands could have been ludicrous for a [whatever you are doing at a museum], but they like you so much they decided to be cool and make a reasonable offer instead of dropping your name in the trash. On the other hand, it sounds like you have an offer that allows you to do something you want to do, in an environment you want to do it and gets you away from your current job. At this point, your only options are to play hard ball or take the job. I'd recommend against the first option without doing your homework first and you had better be prepared to walk.
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Jan 27, 2016 06:00
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yea, i rushed into it, for sure. it's kind of a dream job in terms of my skills and environment. and, to be honest, so long as i have enough to save and get by, i don't really care about money. i currently do that at $70k, so $85k is huge. but i am getting older and starting to grasp having more is better. i'm sort of aloof about life like that. :/ so yea, i've put myself in this bind with my ignorance and impulse. pretty sure i'll take whatever they offer. i really would love it, and that's probably the most important thing. it also seems like they want me to stay long-term and develop the department. so there's a future, for sure. and if it doesn't work out in the first three or six months, i can move. at the very least, this is leaps and bounds above my current job. i'm also thinking most DB jobs that are in the low 100s are probably for finance and corporate hellholes, which would absolutely drain me. not sure how to check what the current rates are for museums. hell, i doubt there are that many. abelwingnut fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 06:07
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Abel Wingnut posted:pretty sure i'll take whatever they offer Then stop wasting our time talking about negotiating, and their time pretending to negotiate.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:02
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He is kinda boned with them knowing what he currently makes. I guarantee you if they externally interviewed, they'd pay above 100 with no problem, but they know they can get you for less. hth
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Jan 27, 2016 16:53
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Sounds like a case of "know when you've 'won' ". You got a 15k increase with better benefits in a place you really want to work. It doesn't sound like you are willing to walk away from it so I'd recommend taking their offer and be extremely happy.
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Jan 27, 2016 17:17
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Rationale posted:Right now I work for a union contractor in the piping industry as an installer. Recently, I was approached by a service technician who told me to get in contact with his hiring manager because I scored very well on an aptitude test. What's the downside to participating in the apprenticeship competition?
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Jan 27, 2016 18:34
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Saint Fu posted:Sounds like a case of "know when you've 'won' ". You got a 15k increase with better benefits in a place you really want to work. It doesn't sound like you are willing to walk away from it so I'd recommend taking their offer and be extremely happy. I agree. Sounds like you've won. At the end of the day a place you want to work matters more than a few thousand bucks as long as you're getting paid respectably. Maybe next time it could be played a bit better but sounds like you've reached the best deal you'll get right now.
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Jan 27, 2016 19:22
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Does anyone know if there are any real benefits to using recruiters these days? I had a recruiter call me about a job I applied to on their portal, but she spilled the name of the company out and I found the listing on their website too. Is there any reason I shouldn't just apply direct? Will I lose a cut of whatever money they possibly offer to the recruiting firm or something like that if I have her represent me?
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Jan 28, 2016 21:31
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Recruiters are the only scum in this world worse than real estate agents, and that's really saying something.
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Jan 28, 2016 21:39
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They might have some insider information that could help you in the interview process. Aside from that, generally they aren't that useful if you already know the company's name and found their posting online.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:00
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Saint Fu posted:They might have some insider information that could help you in the interview process.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:45
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Anyone have thoughts on what it means when a company wants to make you an offer and will only do it in person? They're local, I've met with almost the entire company during the interview process, but this feels a bit off. Not sure why they are doing things this way. It'd be nice to know what to look out for on this.
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Jan 30, 2016 04:11
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Skier posted:Anyone have thoughts on what it means when a company wants to make you an offer and will only do it in person? They're local, I've met with almost the entire company during the interview process, but this feels a bit off. Not sure why they are doing things this way. It'd be nice to know what to look out for on this.
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Jan 30, 2016 04:29
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Skier posted:Anyone have thoughts on what it means when a company wants to make you an offer and will only do it in person? They're local, I've met with almost the entire company during the interview process, but this feels a bit off. Not sure why they are doing things this way. It'd be nice to know what to look out for on this. They could just feel like it's an important part both your life and their future prospects and that it deserves some gravity and formality as such. Or they could be setting up to try and create an ultimatum scenario where they try to demand an answer on the spot. I'd go in not expecting anything fishy, but if they tried to force a decision on the spot I'd walk.
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Jan 30, 2016 19:02
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Gave notice today, got a very strong push back offer. They're putting together an offer to get me to stay, including the training I would have been getting at the new place, and the path to that job in the future (on top of money). I really like my current company. There's a guy here who worked there before. I'm talking to him in a minute. That said, I signed the job offer at the new company. If the current company comes back with a better offer, how dumb would it be to take it? My position is in huge demand, so I don't think it's just an offer to hold me over to train my replacement. Grumpwagon fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 15:27
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Grumpwagon posted:Gave notice today, got a very strong push back offer. They're putting together an offer to get me to stay, including the training I would have been getting at the new place, and the path to that job in the future (on top of money). I really like my current company. IMO it's almost always a bad idea to take the counteroffer. If you really liked the company and wanted to keep working there, I would have just asked for a raise instead of telling them you were leaving so you could see what they were actually going to give you without them knowing they were possibly losing you. If you already signed the new offer and were prepared to leave, then you should stick with that since there was clearly a reason for you to leave.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:39
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Grumpwagon posted:Gave notice today, got a very strong push back offer. They're putting together an offer to get me to stay, including the training I would have been getting at the new place, and the path to that job in the future (on top of money). I really like my current company. Very rarely does it work to your benefit to stay once given notice. It paints you as a flight risk and will make them wary of trusting or promoting you. I don't know anything about your field though so it may be different in other industries, but from my experience it never seems to work out for the employee to rescind their notice when they have another opportunity. If you had not signed though you could use the counter from your current employer to help start a bidding war between your current and new employers. I'd take the new job and leave your current employer in as best a situation that you can.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:41
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Skier posted:Anyone have thoughts on what it means when a company wants to make you an offer and will only do it in person? They're local, I've met with almost the entire company during the interview process, but this feels a bit off. Not sure why they are doing things this way. It'd be nice to know what to look out for on this. There was nothing fishy about it, it was another low-key discussion where the offer was handed to me and we talked for a bit. No pressure into making a decision then and there.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:53
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Skier posted:There was nothing fishy about it, it was another low-key discussion where the offer was handed to me and we talked for a bit. No pressure into making a decision then and there. Is this common? I have only ever gotten salary offers by email
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Feb 2, 2016 19:52
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calvus posted:Is this common? I have only ever gotten salary offers by email My recruiter tried time and time again to discuss salary with me in-person as frequently as possible. I'm not sure if it was so he could sweet talk me during negotiations to agree to a low number, or if he just preferred talking in person, but I assumed the former and insisted that offers be discussed via email. I'd assume the worst and that even if there's no pressure on making a decision, they might use your reaction to judge how far they need to negotiate. Call it paranoia, but the way I see it, it can very easily hurt you discussing in person, and it's very difficult for it to help you.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:30
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Blinky2099 posted:I'd assume the worst and that even if there's no pressure on making a decision, they might use your reaction to judge how far they need to negotiate. Call it paranoia, but the way I see it, it can very easily hurt you discussing in person, and it's very difficult for it to help you. I agree with this. Even if there is no malice intended, it's more difficult to make your best possible decisions on the spot in person. With email you have time to read carefully, compose your thoughts, and craft your responses without mixing in too much emotion or social pressures. I just personally find it is easier to focus on being "business-like" over email. Plus with email you've got an automatic paper trail.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:42
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Blinky2099 posted:I assumed the former and insisted that offers be discussed via email.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:02
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You guys are being a little silly, some people are just old fashioned and want to do things face to face or over the phone. Simply opening and navigating gmail/outlook is a real struggle for a large swath of the population. Just make sure you're prepared ahead of time with as much info as possible and fake confidence even if you're broke and about to get evicted and you can go about these things in person like respectful adults, it's fine. Email and time is preferable sure but don't turn that into a war or anything.
Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 16:16
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