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That'd be a pretty good approach if I were to ever get around to actually using aspirations.
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Jan 19, 2016 07:24
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I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it before, but I just showed a friend the british series The Fades. Without getting too spoilery, it's more or less a perfect oWoD show about what happens if the Shroud breaks down in Wraith or when the Stormwall is shattered in Orpheus, right down to what amounts to a Reckoning style hunter group. Fairly cheesy at times, but it would fit very comfortably with the various Time of Judgement endings. Six episodes, so worth the investment of time.
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Jan 19, 2016 08:09
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I don't have access to Facebook to confirm this, but apparently MR°H just "announced" that I am zombie is a plagiarization of an older game from the seventies that he found in a Wisconsin warehouse and as penance is starting a kickstarter to get the original game published in pdf form.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:10
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I'm looking at his FB and see nothing from the past week. I'm also not friends with him, so idk.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:21
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https://m.facebook.com/groups/588254247851506?id=1130305700313022&view=permalink Apparently you also have to be a member of this group too. Though enough people were talking about it where I found this link to determine that A: yes this is a publicity stunt and B: it's so ill advised that even his groupies are telling him to abort.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:30
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Kurieg posted:I don't have access to Facebook to confirm this, but apparently MR°H just "announced" that I am zombie is a plagiarization of an older game from the seventies that he found in a Wisconsin warehouse and as penance is starting a kickstarter to get the original game published in pdf form. Without knowing the specific context that might be a reference to this, which shows that Gygax's Chainmail, which inspired the fantasy wargaming genre up to and through Dungeons and Dragons, was itself heavily inspired by a two-pager convention game written by Leonard Patt a year earlier.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:44
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Kurieg posted:I don't have access to Facebook to confirm this, but apparently MR°H just "announced" that I am zombie is a plagiarization of an older game from the seventies that he found in a Wisconsin warehouse and as penance is starting a kickstarter to get the original game published in pdf form. I do believe this is following a tradition established by Encounter Critical. The Kicksnarker G+ group lost its poo poo over it, though, and that was hilarious.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:59
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It turns out it's mainly just a plagiarization of everything else MRH has done.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:05
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Maybe it's already been asked, but how are the new investigation rules in Chronicles of Darkness? What's been changed?
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Jan 26, 2016 13:39
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Maybe it's already been asked, but how are the new investigation rules in Chronicles of Darkness? What's been changed? It's pretty directly derived from the investigation rules from GUMSHOE, though not quite as extensive and with tweaks to fit into the structure of the revised Storytelling System. Some of the new investigation-specific merits look like they'd intersect with the system in interesting ways, though I couldn't say how they actually play in practice.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:32
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 And nothing of value was lost.
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Feb 9, 2016 12:51
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bewilderment posted:
For real?
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Feb 9, 2016 14:38
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bewilderment posted:
Is this a joke, or for real? Because I was genuinely looking forward to seeing the re-writes to actually make Beast worthwhile. Are any of the mechanics worth it? I was curious about the lair rules. Have they still got the sample text on the kickstarter page?
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Feb 9, 2016 14:39
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If this is real, Matt must be livid.Arashiofordo3 posted:Is this a joke, or for real? Because I was genuinely looking forward to seeing the re-writes to actually make Beast worthwhile. If it's true, not really. The rewrites barely changed anything beyond the first chapter and it constantly slips back into the old language so it's obvious to people with foreknowledge that Matt really didn't want to do any of it. The character descriptions are still hyper violent and not really focused on "teaching" and the sample heroes are still a "Nice Guy" MRA, a conservative mother, and a mean cheerleader. Although the cheerleader was edited to say that she probably would have become a beast if she hadn't been enough of a bad person to be a cheerleader.
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Feb 9, 2016 15:08
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bewilderment posted:
Where was this posted?
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Feb 9, 2016 15:20
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the opp blog its a joke
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Feb 9, 2016 15:30
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Luminous Obscurity posted:the opp blog Awww, dammit. They didn't learn. 
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Feb 9, 2016 15:45
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Did you really think that was serious? Really?
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Feb 9, 2016 16:04
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Mors Rattus posted:Did you really think that was serious? Think? No. Hope? God yes.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:06
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Arashiofordo3 posted:Is this a joke, or for real? Because I was genuinely looking forward to seeing the re-writes to actually make Beast worthwhile. There's definitely some interesting stuff in Beast, mechanically. The only problem is that anything worth saving could just be carved out and stuffed messily into Changeling 2e.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:27
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"Was that a great idea or sarcasm?" is a sad question in an industry with so many bad ideas.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:15
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Axelgear posted:There's definitely some interesting stuff in Beast, mechanically. The only problem is that anything worth saving could just be carved out and stuffed messily into Changeling 2e. I might give it an eye over. See if there's anything I can steal. gently caress the lore stuff, except for that one awesome hero who's stuck in the nightmares as an angel.She was cool
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Feb 9, 2016 17:22
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Arashiofordo3 posted:I might give it an eye over. See if there's anything I can steal. gently caress the lore stuff, except for that one awesome hero who's stuck in the nightmares as an angel.She was cool Yeah, they changed the text so she's actually a proto-beast that just didn't get all the way so she became a hero but the players might be able to 'save' her.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:25
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Kurieg posted:Yeah, they changed the text so she's actually a proto-beast that just didn't get all the way so she became a hero but the players might be able to 'save' her. She was better on the first read. When she, a normal 13 year old girl, had been attacked by the beast. So she turned around and fought him off, chased him, murdered him, and got stuck as an avenging spirit. Having her as a proto-beast is a pretty lame cop out. I would have prefered her being something tying into the whole dark mother thing. All other creatures came from beasts, here we have a brand new supernatural getting created. And using its brand new unholy power to wreck beasts like it should be.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:42
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Arashiofordo3 posted:I might give it an eye over. See if there's anything I can steal. gently caress the lore stuff, except for that one awesome hero who's stuck in the nightmares as an angel.She was cool There's cool stuff: Atavisms are pleasantly visceral, Nightmares are pleasantly mindfucky, Lairs are just plain fun... It's just Hunger that holds it back.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:46
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Axelgear posted:There's cool stuff: Atavisms are pleasantly visceral, Nightmares are pleasantly mindfucky, Lairs are just plain fun... It's just Hunger that holds it back. Theoretically Hunger could work if you could make it about anything, and not just torturing people like a power tripping high schooler. But then it would be too close to Glamour from C:tL. Hard to say though until I've read through the text. Worse case scenario I steal the powers and hack them to things.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:50
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Axelgear posted:There's cool stuff: Atavisms are pleasantly visceral, Nightmares are pleasantly mindfucky, Lairs are just plain fun... It's just Hunger that holds it back. Several Atavisms remain horrifyingly OP, though.
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Feb 9, 2016 18:01
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Beast would have been a fine game if it just owned up to it's own monstrosity. "There might be some fringe benefits to our existence, they're definitely not worth the price paid, but I'm not going to roll over and die for your peace of mind." Is a very compelling mission statement. Having Heroes be the mirror of that, where they're doing a good service through questionable means would have been fantastic. Instead we got "No no you have to let me rape and murder people because it helps somehow... No I'm not going to explain why. Just be glad you're not the person being killed cause it's a lesson or something shut up."
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Feb 9, 2016 18:27
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I think the only good idea to take even adjacent to Beast would be running a Hunter game where you find a weird awful monster whose existence has an anti-Disquiet effect on whatever area it's in, making people more heroic or compassionate or selfless. And then sometimes it eats somebody. Or this could work as a Promethean game, OR better yet as a variant of Pandorans that give off a general "hey everything's doin' ok, guys" kind of aura, which would make their hiding-in-plain-sight nature even more of a bummer gently caress-you to Prometheans. They're the terrible thing everyone wants to be around (but you can't or they go kill-crazy), you're trying to be a better person and no one wants you. But any way you slice it, you don't really end up with playable Beasts, which I think is entirely okay.
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Feb 9, 2016 18:37
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I think the only good idea to take even adjacent to Beast would be running a Hunter game where you find a weird awful monster whose existence has an anti-Disquiet effect on whatever area it's in, making people more heroic or compassionate or selfless. And then sometimes it eats somebody. Or this could work as a Promethean game, OR better yet as a variant of Pandorans that give off a general "hey everything's doin' ok, guys" kind of aura, which would make their hiding-in-plain-sight nature even more of a bummer gently caress-you to Prometheans. They're the terrible thing everyone wants to be around (but you can't or they go kill-crazy), you're trying to be a better person and no one wants you. Beast still has hilariously tone-deaf stereotype quotes, and I love the ones for Prometheans and Demons. The Promethean ones are all basically "Come on, be a monster, it's fun!" and one of the Demon ones is "I wonder what will happen when I strip away your disguise" which would probably result in a dead beast and a very very angry Demon.
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Feb 9, 2016 18:46
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Kurieg posted:the Demon ones is "I wonder what will happen when I strip away your disguise" http://alexanderlozada.com/iasip/?IlRoZSBHYW5nIEdldHMgQXRvbWl6ZWQi
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Feb 9, 2016 18:53
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Yeah, but at that point you are stepping on Vampire's toes. Frankly I'd still take it, I don't mind having the choice between two different flavors of "I must live at your expenses"
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Feb 9, 2016 18:53
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It's also shockingly tone-deaf when it co-opted a sort of LGBT "born this way" approach to selfish nightmare beasts who exist only to inflict suffering and contribute nothing. The antagonists are depicted as intolerant bigots who hate Beasts for who they are, and the Beasts are just innocently expressing their nature. It's like they wanted to subvert the notion that tolerance is a good thing, but Beast reads like it's never grasped the difference between unacceptable behaviour and unacceptable people. We obviously shouldn't tolerate harmful or hateful behaviour, but there's no such thing as an unacceptable person. Beast just lumps the two together and then defiantly says "No, YOU don't get it!"
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Feb 9, 2016 18:59
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The problem with Beast lies entirely in the execution. It's so frustrating because there are a million small ways they could change it to make it better, but they're not going to. By execution I mean that, if you wrote the game with a different tone it would be decent, maybe even good.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:02
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paradoxGentleman posted:Yeah, but at that point you are stepping on Vampire's toes. Frankly I'd still take it, I don't mind having the choice between two different flavors of "I must live at your expenses" This is actually what I was expecting too from the initial flavor which is why I was tentatively excited. I feel you could even tap into a very different vein of "the monster I am" than Vampire. Requiem is primarily about immorality, about corruption and the gothic horror aspect of a slow descent. Beast I feel could definitely tap into the whole "growing up into a monster" vein of fiction, and still does in theory, but its weighed down with this albatross of trying to make them defensible or even the good guys. It's far more compelling that their hungers are terrible, only helping people in spite of their natures. A Beast game should be mostly about a group trying to deal with their problem, not revel in it, and risking the consequences of their hunger because they know if they don't it just gets worse, because they are not in control then.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:07
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Kurieg posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again, Beast would have been a fine game if it just owned up to it's own monstrosity. "There might be some fringe benefits to our existence, they're definitely not worth the price paid, but I'm not going to roll over and die for your peace of mind." Is a very compelling mission statement. Having Heroes be the mirror of that, where they're doing a good service through questionable means would have been fantastic. The thing is, Beast owning up to its monstrosity wouldn't make it more fun to play. It'd still be Sadism Simulator, and it'd still put people off just as much. Being self-aware might get rid of the cringe-inducing self-justifications but it definitely doesn't remove the wince-inducing horror of the actual gameplay itself. Vampire has similar themes, but it's far more subtle about it: Your feeding can be from willing victims, for example, and, even when they're unaware, the damage you inflict might be nothing more than a small headache and some tiredness the next day. There is a mental distancing from the violation via the supernatural aspect of it all. This doesn't mean it's any less awful or victimizing than Beast, but it's at least able to let you pretend what you're doing isn't violence that you're getting off on. Beast has no such option. You can't really conceal the screams for mercy or the cries of horror in Beast. It's just plain not fun to play a mandatory sadist. Also, on the topic of stepping on the toes of other games, it kinda annoys me to hear that. Demon: The Descent steps on the toes of Changeling, what with their secret wars with oppressive gods who often send their own kind to hunt them down, and the panoply of strange monsters produced by the strange infrastructure that exists between their former masters and the physical world, and the bargaining powers, and their secret abilities to bend the rules of reality via loopholes written in the world's basic scripting... When a game uses its mechanics and fluff to generate an atmosphere, similarity only really matters if there's no difference to play one over the other. Demon tells stories that are sometimes similar to Changelings, but they're not identical, and I have definite reasons to play one over the other. The same should be able to be said for Beast.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:09
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moths posted:It's also shockingly tone-deaf when it co-opted a sort of LGBT "born this way" approach to selfish nightmare beasts who exist only to inflict suffering and contribute nothing. They did make a token effort to change the text to "You chose to be this way so you can help people." but several references to "Assuming your birthright" and "Finding your true family" still remain. And the text on teaching lessons never actually makes it into the sample feeding methods or hungers. And since 3 of the 5 hungers are "Inflict violence, murder, and murder to consume" the lessons paragraphs include a bit mentioning as long as you leave a recognizable corpse in a populated area someone is going to learn a lesson so you're golden.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:09
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I maybe mentioned this earlier in the thread, but Beast would work really well if Homecoming was a threat that your character is actively avoiding. Like losing all your humanity in VtM or turning to the Dark Side in D6 Star Wars. E: Huh. I didn't catch that in the revisions. I wonder if the core concept is just irredeemable hosed and internally inconsistent. moths fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 19:17
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Axelgear posted:The thing is, Beast owning up to its monstrosity wouldn't make it more fun to play. It'd still be Sadism Simulator, and it'd still put people off just as much. Being self-aware might get rid of the cringe-inducing self-justifications but it definitely doesn't remove the wince-inducing horror of the actual gameplay itself. Vampire has similar themes, but it's far more subtle about it: Your feeding can be from willing victims, for example, and, even when they're unaware, the damage you inflict might be nothing more than a small headache and some tiredness the next day. There is a mental distancing from the violation via the supernatural aspect of it all. My group of otherwise decent players love Beast because they really like the whole gloves-off no-qualms ultraviolence aspect. I've pointed out we can do that in pretty much any game and there might be interesting antagonists and relevant themes too.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:20
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moths posted:I maybe mentioned this earlier in the thread, but Beast would work really well if Homecoming was a threat that your character is actively avoiding. Like losing all your humanity in VtM or turning to the Dark Side in D6 Star Wars.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:24
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