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Add it to the op imo
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Jan 28, 2016 12:17
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loving Powerpoint, that's what's wrong with it.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:24
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Didn't Hitler buy into the whole Prussian Model of cradle to grave social care for real Germans only and you probably get killed by a Russian first? It probably puts him to the left of a few modern leaders economically. That's why having economic, ethnic/civic, and social policy on the same axis is dumb and bad. You'd really need an axis for each. Cubic Political Wisdom empowers me above all the 1 axis Powerpoint slides on Earth. Murdoch owners of religious/celebrity tabloid -- have enslaved your rear end, and you are too stupid to know you are a slave to plunder profiteers of Politics Cubic Nature.  
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Jan 28, 2016 12:34
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Guavanaut posted:Didn't Hitler buy into the whole Prussian Model of cradle to grave social care for real Germans only and you probably get killed by a Russian first? It probably puts him to the left of a few modern leaders economically. No, he just used lip service to it in order to get into power as only socialist parties had a hope in hell of electoral chances back then.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:38
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Tesseraction posted:No, he just used lip service to it in order to get into power as only socialist parties had a hope in hell of electoral chances back then. it's worth repeating this especially as the argument that 'The Nazis were National Socialists, therefore Hitler was a leftie' seems to be picking up steam again (probably as a result of Bernie Sanders' presidential ambitions). The Nazi party in the 1920s and early 30s did indeed have a left wing, however everyone even remotely connected with that part of the party was purged with extreme prejudice in 1934.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:48
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It is possible to be genuinely socialist about wealth distribution and the public sector while being genuinely poo poo about which people are included in that though, like Strasser before Hitler took over the reins entirely, or some historical National Labour parties (although the UK one was just a proto-UKIP of conservative splitters trying to appeal to labour voters on xenophobia), or a lot of historical 'socialism in one country' projects. Where do they fall? They're right wing on 'not everyone is treated equally', but they're anti-capitalist and usually authoritarian. efb on Strasserism. I think that went way beyond what the Prussian Model was though, just that even the Prussian Model of cradle-to-grave care would be considered leftist by the modern right.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:55
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Well the slide does say the lesson is about investigating UK political parties, so that's your left-right axis and what people usually talk about. They'll probably have no trouble pinpointing some parties and they can probably debate why the others do or don't land neatly on there. Those just look like points to discuss really
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Jan 28, 2016 13:00
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And to be fair, the Tories are all about helping very rich people who are close personal friends of senior party members.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:04
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Remember Tory MP Lucy Allan, who claimed she got a "death threat" over her support for bombing Syria? Off course you do. Well here's a short animation showing how much she altered the email in question. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/199VbgNPtBYEEP3oOIqIUjGrwJs8EA8x9ZO-j4ZSYbjQ/pub?start=true&loop=true&delayms=3000#slide=id.p3
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Jan 28, 2016 13:11
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If the Tories don't want to be compared to hitler maybe they shouldn't be so much like hitler
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Jan 28, 2016 13:13
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That's not fair. I don't recall Hitler selling off all the infrastructure to overseas investors. They had to come and take it.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:17
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Pork Pie Hat posted:Remember Tory MP Lucy Allan, who claimed she got a "death threat" over her support for bombing Syria? Off course you do. Crossing the t's and dotting some i's, what's the harm??
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Jan 28, 2016 13:18
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Pork Pie Hat posted:Remember Tory MP Lucy Allan, who claimed she got a "death threat" over her support for bombing Syria? Off course you do. Any chance of anybody in the media picking up on this? I mean, do the tories even want to keep her enough to protect her?
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Jan 28, 2016 13:20
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Guavanaut posted:It is possible to be genuinely socialist about wealth distribution and the public sector while being genuinely poo poo about which people are included in that though, like Strasser before Hitler took over the reins entirely, or some historical National Labour parties (although the UK one was just a proto-UKIP of conservative splitters trying to appeal to labour voters on xenophobia), or a lot of historical 'socialism in one country' projects. Stalinism.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:21
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Lots of people in IT are libertarian because they're loving idiots who think knowing how to code or administer networks makes them Randian Ubermensch when they're actually just technology janitors. It also contains a disproportionately high number of middle class white dudes who have never really had to struggle for anything so they think anyone who does have to struggle for anything must really just be lazy/stupid. I say this as a middle class white dude who works in IT and has never really had to struggle for anything.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:25
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Miftan posted:Any chance of anybody in the media picking up on this? I mean, do the tories even want to keep her enough to protect her? Not much chance of the media touching it. We had this a few weeks ago when Krishnan Guru-Murthy said it was "a bit boring" to excuse not talking about it (at all) on C4 News, and then (after being harangued about it for a few days on the twitter) said it was too old to be considered news at that point.  I think eventually it got briefly mentioned in one or two places but quickly vanished under... I think the Syria debate? I think the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards said that either there was nothing to investigate, or concluded after a very short investigation that there was nothing to sanction. That commissioner is appointed by the commons and the office is widely considered to be feeble and useless anyway. As for your second question: the Tory parliamentary majority is, I think, 16? They can't afford to go throwing away MPs regardless of how incompetent or dishonest they are.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:28
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Oberleutnant posted:Not much chance of the media touching it. We had this a few weeks ago when Krishnan Guru-Murthy said it was "a bit boring" to excuse not talking about it (at all) on C4 News, and then (after being harangued about it for a few days on the twitter) said it was too old to be considered news at that point. Only technically 16, pretty sure they can get the PLP to vote with them on a ton of things if they play it right.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:35
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Tesseraction posted:Stalinism. Is the NHS a Stalinism? (That was a joke question, but how about the Tory/UKIP/bad-Labour 'anti-migrant NHS even when it would be detrimental to public health'? I depressed myself with my joke question.) That's really what I was getting at with the Hitler thing, not the 'Hitler was a lefty and Corbyn is a lefty so Corbyn is a Hitler' bullshit, but that there is a real difference between the Globalist far-right, who don't give a poo poo about the workers and would gladly sell all the infrastructure to whoever gives them the best terms and farm all the jobs out to whichever slaver gives them the best profit, and the Nationalist far-right, who I think do genuinely care about their idealized vision of the pure [their ethnicity here] working man, but are poo poo because they'd gladly tread on a billion [other ethnicities here] workers to benefit them.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:37
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Random Integer posted:Lots of people in IT are libertarian because they're loving idiots who think knowing how to code or administer networks makes them Randian Ubermensch when they're actually just technology janitors. It also contains a disproportionately high number of middle class white dudes who have never really had to struggle for anything so they think anyone who does have to struggle for anything must really just be lazy/stupid. I say this as a middle class white dude who works in IT and has never really had to struggle for anything. I don't think it is the superiority thing. I think they're Libertarian because Libertarian's core philosophy is you don't have any responsibilities to anyone. It's the political equivalent of a shrug of the shoulders and a mumbled "Not my problem, leave me alone" to absolutely everything. Anyway have this Libertarian unfriendly story about government intervention. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/google-to-pay-over-200-million-in-unpaid-tax-to-italy-a6838586.html https://twitter.com/Martin_Abrams/status/692112100647370752?ref_src=twsrc Fans fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 13:38
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Pork Pie Hat posted:Remember Tory MP Lucy Allan, who claimed she got a "death threat" over her support for bombing Syria? Off course you do. She was the same one who was recorded phoning up her sick worker who had been given a doctors letter saying as much and she threatened to fire her, warned her there would be no tribunal because of her contract and was widely reported to be a bully. Nothing was done about that ether.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:39
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Gonzo McFee posted:She was the same one who was recorded phoning up her sick worker who had been given a doctors letter saying as much and she threatened to fire her, warned her there would be no tribunal because of her contract and was widely reported to be a bully. That wasn't actually a crime, though.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:44
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Tesseraction posted:No, he just used lip service to it in order to get into power as only socialist parties had a hope in hell of electoral chances back then. Ehh, that's not totally fair. In practice Nazism tended to mostly be on the side of big business, but there's stuff like Kraft durch Freude which was genuinely aimed at the working classes. One of the ways Nazism was different from the old-school Second Reich was precisely by being aimed at all social classes, and I don't think it was entirely cynical.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:46
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Is altering a letter?
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Jan 28, 2016 13:46
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Jedit posted:That wasn't actually a crime, though. I don't think her Facebook post about the email was either
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Jan 28, 2016 13:46
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Jedit posted:That wasn't actually a crime, though. Neither was posting what she did on facebook. If she'd had reported it to the authorities it would have been. Although one could argue she could be done in a civil court for defamation of character.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:47
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It's possibly Libel. Though I doubt any court would really give a poo poo.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:48
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Depends how rich the claimant is. 
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Jan 28, 2016 13:51
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Fans posted:It's possibly Libel. Though I doubt any court would really give a poo poo. Did she specifically name the guy? I thought it as posted 'anonymous'
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Jan 28, 2016 13:52
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serious gaylord posted:Neither was posting what she did on facebook. If she'd had reported it to the authorities it would have been. Defaming whose character? "Rusty's"?
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Jan 28, 2016 14:00
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Fans posted:I don't think it is the superiority thing. I think they're Libertarian because Libertarian's core philosophy is you don't have any responsibilities to anyone. It's the political equivalent of a shrug of the shoulders and a mumbled "Not my problem, leave me alone" to absolutely everything. It's more than just simple indifference in my experience, its an ideological commitment to the idea of human society as composed of atomic units driven solely by rational self-interest not just in a practical sense but in a moral sense. I'm talking about people who would argue against jumping into a swimming pool to save a drowning child because there is no material benefit to them, and that this is the most morally just conclusion.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:03
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Guavanaut posted:Didn't Hitler buy into the whole Prussian Model of cradle to grave social care for real Germans only and you probably get killed by a Russian first? It probably puts him to the left of a few modern leaders economically. Or if they weren't deemed not worth the cost of treatment and killed  "60,000 Reichsmark is what this person suffering from a hereditary defect costs the People's community during his lifetime. Fellow citizen, that is your money too. Read '[A] New People', the monthly magazine of the Bureau for Race Politics of the NSDAP."
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Jan 28, 2016 14:04
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Kassad posted:Or if they weren't deemed not worth the cost of treatment and killed That particular policy was unpopular enough they had to go back on it (for a dictatorship, Nazi Germany was actually surprisingly responsive to public opinion). Let's not give Duncan Smith any ideas, though.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:06
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I was just eating my lunch in some random greasy spoon in Kyiv when I saw Cameron in a pop video on the telly. Some very young people were doing violence to a Blondie song and Cameron was in the video for it. I think that Corbyn would show more restraint than that.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:06
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Hey so you know all those whiny NIMBY fucks in Chelsea who are protesting against crossrail? well they've put out a song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TszS5oFJbWQ death to everyone involved
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Jan 28, 2016 14:06
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serious gaylord posted:Did she specifically name the guy? I thought it as posted 'anonymous' When the guy came forward she took the facebook post down saying quote:I posted actual comments made to me on the same day, although not in the same email. Comments were added to the post as they came in. I posted them to show examples of the type of unacceptable online abuse that comes in most days and that most people tolerate silently. So you see she doctored the email by adding a line from another email she claimed to have received but had never produced, but it's ok because she didn't mean to discredit anyone. By that time, of course, the media didn't really care, because they had their "MP gets death threat" story. e: of course the fact that quote:Mrs Allan said she shared the email from Adam Watling, son of Telford & Wrekin Labour councillor Paul Watling "Rusty" just so happened to be the son of a local Labour councillor had absolutely nothing to do with it. Oh no. Pork Pie Hat fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 14:07
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Pound_Coin posted:Hey so you know all those whiny NIMBY fucks in Chelsea who are protesting against crossrail? well they've put out a song 2:10 those kids are brilliant, I would love to track the editor down and ask "why that shot???"
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Jan 28, 2016 14:10
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Kassad posted:Or if they weren't deemed not worth the cost of treatment and killed feedmegin posted:That particular policy was unpopular enough they had to go back on it (for a dictatorship, Nazi Germany was actually surprisingly responsive to public opinion).
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Jan 28, 2016 14:11
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Pound_Coin posted:Hey so you know all those whiny NIMBY fucks in Chelsea who are protesting against crossrail? well they've put out a song Interestingly, while she's a legit opera singer: quote:She has performed her satirical cabaret with her co-writer Jeremy Limb So maybe the crossrail song is actually just very, very heavily disguised satire. lol it isn't. e: "Champagne Socialist" 
Pork Pie Hat fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 14:14
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feedmegin posted:Ehh, that's not totally fair. In practice Nazism tended to mostly be on the side of big business, but there's stuff like Kraft durch Freude which was genuinely aimed at the working classes. One of the ways Nazism was different from the old-school Second Reich was precisely by being aimed at all social classes, and I don't think it was entirely cynical. Call me cynical, but I'm firmly of the opinion it was designed to strengthen the party's polling as the NSDAP saw their already unimpressive poll lead diminishing.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:20
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What kind of colossal wanker self-describes as a champagne socialist?
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Jan 28, 2016 14:24
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