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Vader was right about nothing. The only worthwhile thing he did in his life was save Luke. He was a malleable, naive rube. The Emperor thought he could persuade Luke the way he did Vader, but Luke very pointedly wasn't his dad. He chose death over the dark side. Twice.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:20
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porfiria posted:Luke considers Darth's offer for about 5 seconds, possibly 0. Also Vader's offer is more authoritarian bullshit. "THAT guy sucks, but if we just get the right one in there then..." 5 seconds is a long time if you measure in planck lengths.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:21
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Yaws posted:Vader was right about nothing. The only worthwhile thing he did in his life was save Luke. He was a malleable, naive rube. The Emperor thought he could persuade Luke the way he did Vader, but Luke very pointedly wasn't his dad. He chose death over the dark side. Twice. You're thinking about Anakin Skywalker, a different character.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You're thinking about Anakin Skywalker, a different character. Anakin and Vader are explicitly the same person and character; and if you seriously want to argue otherwise you are a goddamn idiot.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:38
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jivjov posted:Anakin and Vader are explicitly the same person and character; and if you seriously want to argue otherwise you are a goddamn idiot. Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker not being the same person is true...from a certain point of view.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:40
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jivjov posted:Anakin and Vader are explicitly the same person and character; and if you seriously want to argue otherwise you are a goddamn idiot. Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker, from a certain point of view.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:42
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jivjov posted:Anakin and Vader are explicitly the same person and character; and if you seriously want to argue otherwise you are a goddamn idiot. I think you're going a little far there. Abstractly, Anakin and Vader are separate characters. Concretely, of course, it's the same person (well, the important parts anyway).
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Jan 28, 2016 03:42
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The real Star Wars movies are a completely different narrative as compared to the prequels. Nobody knew Darth Vader was Luke's dad when they made Star Wars and the two sequels set up their own story that ends in Jedi. The prequels have their own story that doesn't match the real trilogy (Leia knew her mom, Anakin was a great pilot, Chewbacca is a space pirate, desert robes are just for people in the desert) because they're serving that story.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:44
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Yeah, those real Star Wars movies, like The Empire Strikes Back and Revenge of the Sith, not any of those fake Star Wars movies. This is ideology.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:52
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Jack Gladney posted:The real Star Wars movies are a completely different narrative as compared to the prequels. Nobody knew Darth Vader was Luke's dad when they made Star Wars and the two sequels set up their own story that ends in Jedi. The prequels have their own story that doesn't match the real trilogy (Leia knew her mom, Anakin was a great pilot, Chewbacca is a space pirate, desert robes are just for people in the desert) because they're serving that story. The prequels aren't canon.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:53
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Yaws posted:The prequels aren't canon. Au contraire, they are!
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Jan 28, 2016 03:58
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SHISHKABOB posted:Au contraire, they are! Not to me they aren't! You can't take that from me!
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Jan 28, 2016 04:01
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Yaws posted:The prequels aren't canon. Canon is a meaningless concept that nerds should discard in favor of actually enjoying and engaging with stuff.
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Jan 28, 2016 04:04
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quote:Anakin and Vader are explicitly the same person and character; and if you seriously want to argue otherwise you are a goddamn idiot. We can all agree that Obi-Wan Kenobi and his brother, Ben Kenobi, are different people and characters right? I mean who gets that old in twenty years? quote:Canon is a meaningless concept that Christians should discard in favor of actually enjoying and engaging with stuff.
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Jan 28, 2016 04:04
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Yaws posted:Not to me they aren't! You can't take that from me! I am trying to give, not take!
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Jan 28, 2016 04:08
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SHISHKABOB posted:I am trying to give, not take! I've tried to like the prequels man. I've watched them countless times. I'm jealous that y'all have 6 (7?) SW films you like.
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Jan 28, 2016 04:15
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Yaws posted:I've tried to like the prequels man. I've watched them countless times. I'm jealous that y'all have 6 (7?) SW films you like. Have you tried watching the cool lightsaber fights
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Jan 28, 2016 04:33
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I liked ROTS up until obi wan kills grievous. It just felt clunky after that point. There were some really excellent shots and scenes, but I don't think they flowed well. Anakin vs obi wan was great; it was full of emotion. They really loving went at each other, and it was by far the most brutal fight. Obi wan was a fuckin great character. Anakin felt kind of shallow sometimes, but he always had great strength of conviction. But their relationship was good. Going from good friends at the beginning (of rots) to murdering each other. I was very sad at their last parting before poo poo hit the fan.
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Jan 28, 2016 04:33
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Jack Gladney posted:desert robes are just for people in the desert Speaking of which, Aunt Beru has this nice denim jacket that I don't think ever shows up in a film again. 
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Jan 28, 2016 04:36
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computer parts posted:Speaking of which, Aunt Beru has this nice denim jacket that I don't think ever shows up in a film again. That outfit's nice enough to wear outside of Star Wars (if it's still 1977)
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Jan 28, 2016 05:03
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MonsieurChoc posted:Canon is a meaningless concept that nerds should discard in favor of actually enjoying and engaging with stuff. The single criterion for canonicity in the present age is whether poo poo is any good. That Alien franchise box set should be two discs.
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Jan 28, 2016 05:07
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jivjov posted:Anakin and Vader are explicitly the same person and character; and if you seriously want to argue otherwise you are a goddamn idiot. Anakin is a man. Darth Vader is more machine than man.
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Jan 28, 2016 05:13
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Machine or mannequin?
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Jan 28, 2016 05:15
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RBA Starblade posted:Machine or mannequin? Manakin.
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Jan 28, 2016 05:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anakin is a man. That's just obi-wan being old timey racist pretty sure vader can go into the mos eisly catina.
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Jan 28, 2016 06:48
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Elfgames posted:That's just obi-wan being old timey racist pretty sure vader can go into the mos eisly catina. If he couldn't there wouldn't be a Cantina left after.
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Jan 28, 2016 06:54
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well yeah Vader's a righteous hero and it's a hive of scum and villainy
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Jan 28, 2016 07:03
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It seems like a huge amount of the time in PT-era lightsaber fights getting kicked is like a death sentence Like Qui-Gon Jinn, and here (big Clone Wars TV spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8uXBdCIsrU E: I love the line at 3:52, and I'm not entirely sure why.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:24
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TheKingofSprings posted:It seems like a huge amount of the time in PT-era lightsaber fights getting kicked is like a death sentence If we assume that Jedi fight with the force like they pilot or what have you, it means your offense/defense has collapsed so thoroughly your opponent is getting a free move/bested your predictions and skills. Even if the blade isn't in you yet, they're setting you up for the killing blow.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:43
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Jack Gladney posted:The single criterion for canonicity in the present age is whether poo poo is any good. That Alien franchise box set should be two discs. That makes no sense, there'd be no room for Alien 3 and Prometheus
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Jan 28, 2016 09:35
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cargohills posted:That makes no sense, there'd be no room for Alien 3 and Prometheus No, he's saying those are the good ones.
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Jan 28, 2016 09:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:Canon is a meaningless concept that nerds should discard in favor of actually enjoying and engaging with stuff. And some people choose to engage with and enjoy an ongoing narrative comprising of multiple entries into a single continuity.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:34
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And the ongoing narrative is valuable because otherwise how would you know what was canon?!
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Jan 28, 2016 13:33
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TheKingofSprings posted:It seems like a huge amount of the time in PT-era lightsaber fights getting kicked is like a death sentence When me and myf riends rewatched all six movies previous to TFA, we noticed that through all of them there's a lot of useless spinning during lightsaber fights, and the winne ris usually the one who spins the most. Our conclusion was that by using The Spin, force-users can power up their lightsaber skills and win.  jivjov posted:And some people choose to engage with and enjoy an ongoing narrative comprising of multiple entries into a single continuity. You can do that without getting bogged won in the worthless minutia of canon. In fact, caring too much about what'S canon or not often leads to not engaging or enjoying the narrative, instead nitpicking over continuity (example Cinema Sins).
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Jan 28, 2016 14:11
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MonsieurChoc posted:When me and myf riends rewatched all six movies previous to TFA, we noticed that through all of them there's a lot of useless spinning during lightsaber fights, and the winne ris usually the one who spins the most. Our conclusion was that by using The Spin, force-users can power up their lightsaber skills and win. It's a neat trick.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:14
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Empress Theonora posted:Hey, Cnut, where are you getting all that behind the scenes stuff about Empire? I'd love to read more about that. The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film The Making of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi If you're a fan of these movies, these are absolutely amazing. Worth every penny. They couldn't possibly be any better... ...unless you buy the Kindle version (make sure your player can support it) or Google Play versions. Those are extended versions with more photographs and behind the scenes videos, test shots, etc not included in any other video release.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:33
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MonsieurChoc posted:You can do that without getting bogged won in the worthless minutia of canon. In fact, caring too much about what'S canon or not often leads to not engaging or enjoying the narrative, instead nitpicking over continuity (example Cinema Sins). Or you can enjoy the aspect of having a consistent, canonical, ongoing narrative. I mean, if someone wants to take ever single entry in the series as completely unconnected to everything else, that's fine. But for me (and a lot of other fans), having a continuity to which things adhere is just part of the experience. Don't poo poo on my parade and I won't poo poo on yours.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:When me and myf riends rewatched all six movies previous to TFA, we noticed that through all of them there's a lot of useless spinning during lightsaber fights, and the winne ris usually the one who spins the most. Our conclusion was that by using The Spin, force-users can power up their lightsaber skills and win. It adds up, it's the only acrobatic move Old Ben attempts in the first one so it's clearly important.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:16
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Barudak posted:If we assume that Jedi fight with the force like they pilot or what have you, it means your offense/defense has collapsed so thoroughly your opponent is getting a free move/bested your predictions and skills. Even if the blade isn't in you yet, they're setting you up for the killing blow. There's also a social element. Kicking someone is effectively putting them below your feet - and feet tend to be considered unclean, or worse than the rest of the body. For an obvious example of kicking used as denigration, see 300's scene where Leonidas kicks the cowardly Persian diplomat into a well. When Darth Maul or whoever else is kicking Jedi into pits, they're saying they're poo poo that they've stepped in.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The concept-phrase "Star Wars fans do not actually like Star Wars" does not refer to the number of films you like, but to fans' adoption of ideological stances that run counter to what Star Wars is actually about. Where are you getting a Feudal reading of Star Wars? Feudalism is based around land tenancy with tenants that are bound to that land under law. They provide goods and military services to a landlord who then provides goods and military service to their lord and so forth. No one actually owns any private property because it all is ultimately the property of the crown. The king may grant that land to a subject but in the end the king can always take it back. Henry Bolingbroke usurped Richard II as King of England because Richard reclaimed the wealthy Duchy of Lancaster for the Crown after the death of Henry's father. In a feudalist system Henry Bolingbroke did not OWN the Duchy of Lancaster the Crown did. It was his through feudal right because it passed to Henry from his father. However, the King in theory has the right to reclaim that property at any time. Feudalism is an agrarian/manorialist system that relies on the tenant obligations to be enforced under the law. And this a primarily Marxist reading of the concept which tends to dismiss other socio-cultural factors. It gets particularly messy in England where the tradition of the king ruling by the consent of the nobility is fairly well entrenched going back to the Anglo Saxon era. Libertarianism is built entirely upon the idea of private property and the liberty of the individual which is utterly foreign in a feudal system. A peasant is tied to the land. They don't have the right to move to the next town over to find a better paying job. They tried that in the Peasant's Rebellion in England during the feudal era. Did not work out to well for them at the time. Where is this in Star Wars again? Is it because Leia is a Princess? You can have a monarchy that has nothing to do with feudalism. Genuinely curious. I get that Libertarian idea can be tied to the Separatists in the PT but I'm not seeing anything resembling feudalism outside of a few titles. ZoCrowes fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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