Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

Mystery Prize posted:

Pro tip for orb spiders: a blowgun and regular poison needles. They're actually vulnerable to it; two hits kills an orb spider 95% of the time, and 3 hits always does.

Sure that's easy and effective, but the fun way is to Ru jump over the orb.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 03:48

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# ? May 19, 2024 00:27

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

Arivia posted:

If you're almost at orc:4, you're about to find a bunch of shops that might have even better stuff. Hold off for right now.

I went with this and it was a good call, one of the shops there had a really spiffy hat with a whole bunch of resistances, evocable rage, and spirit guardian. It's not like my minotaur was using his MP for anything else!

As far as ranged combat goes, I learned my lesson from earlier runs and trained up Throwing. Since Okawaru is showering me with javelins it's really helped with some of the more annoying enemies. Evocations has been surprisingly good to me too.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 07:16

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

Whoops I went down some stairs in Snake and got constricted to death while some jerk murdered me with an arbalest.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 08:34

Mystery Prize: Nov 7, 2010

EightFlyingCars posted:

Whoops I went down some stairs in Snake and got constricted to death while some jerk murdered me with an arbalest.

Crawl.txt

# ? Jan 26, 2016 08:44

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

Mystery Prize posted:

Crawl.txt

It was totally my fault though, there were a billion things I could have done in retrospect to save myself but I took a break and completely forgot I had those options. Aaauuuuugh I'm so mad at myself!

# ? Jan 26, 2016 08:49

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

EightFlyingCars posted:

It was totally my fault though, there were a billion things I could have done in retrospect to save myself but I took a break and completely forgot I had those options. Aaauuuuugh I'm so mad at myself!

Crawl: teaching you the hard way since... I don't know, since when?

# ? Jan 26, 2016 11:27

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

the Orb of Zot posted:

Yeah, basically it means that in regards to movement normal speed enemies become ugly things in regards to fleeing from them. Ponderous is least notable on a chei character (because the amount slower you move is basically ignorable) and most notable on a fast moving race like a Centaur or Spriggan (although the fact you're still faster than normal with ponderous on means you don't really care about the drawback as much at all)

Caveat: Wear the Black Knight's Horse Barding if you find it as a Centaur and not worshipping a god that prohibits doing so. A +10 enchantment on a barding is absurd, and well worth outspeeding normal enemies slightly less.

Gotta disagree, ponderous is most notable on a normal speed character. Suddenly not being able to safely and infinitely run away from things is a big hit, but that breakpoint only really exists for normal speed characters. When rounding a corner and meeting some nasty melee threat 2 spaces away (hydra, giant, etc), ponderous is the difference between being able to reach stairs and break contact or getting caught and requiring consumables to escape.

I don't think there are many enemies that a regular spriggan can outrun but a ponderous one can not. Maybe just monster spriggans?

resistentialism posted:

Sure that's easy and effective, but the fun way is to Ru jump over the orb.

Blocking the orb with reflection is the most satisfying.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 13:55

rj54x: Sep 16, 2007

Internet Kraken posted:

Worship chei, cast statue form, put on the hat of pondering.

Peak Chei, Keepin It Easy level 27.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 14:01

all the ladies say I: Aug 24, 2005; Acción de Espionaje Táctico

I worshipped Chei and it was chill as hell. Until I went into pandemonium and got malmuted to rank 3 in almost every single bad mutation. Only found like 3 cure mut pots that game. I still managed to get all pan runes except Gloorx, who I spawned right next to, thought I could slay, berserkeritis kicked in and he somehow lived and then it was over.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 18:15

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Unimpressed posted:

Crawl: teaching you the hard way since... I don't know, since when?

Feb. 10th, 1997. Just shy of 19 years ago. Time flies...

# ? Jan 26, 2016 18:29

ThermosAquaticus: Nov 9, 2013

So how do I (mega)zig?

code:

  Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.18-a0-1171-ga8e22e7 (webtiles) character file.

ThermosAquaticus the Hoplite (OpIE)                Turns: 80236, Time: 11:28:07

Health: 260/260    AC: 34    Str: 43    XL:     27
Magic:  53/53      EV: 36    Int: 53    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   12660      SH: 36    Dex: 25    Spells: 13 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +      - Unarmed
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    V - +6 large shield of Repulsion {rPois Regen+ Int+3}
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    R - +2 hat {Int+3}
rPois  &#8734;          Spirit   .    E - amulet of regeneration
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    J - ring of Reprah {*Contam MR+++ Str+7 Stlth+}
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    F - ring "Sienemn" {rC+ rN+ Int+3}
SustAt .          Harm     .    G - ring "Xepoidghuig" {rF+ MR+ Str+3 Int+2}
MR     +++++                    M - ring of protection from cold
Stlth  ++++++++..               k - ring "Lovecur" {Wiz Str+7 Dex-2 SInv}
                                u - ring "Wiklufif" {rPois rF+ rC+ rN+}
                                m - +3 ring of protection
                                D - ring of Nusi {MP+9 SInv Stlth+}

@: statue-form, deflect missiles, very slow, almost entirely resistant to
hostile enchantments, extraordinarily stealthy
A: almost no armour, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, tentacle spike 1,
repulsion field 1, camouflage 1, fire resistance 1, low mp 1, sense surroundings
1, slow regeneration 1, (gelatinous body 0)
a: End Transformation, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time,
Renounce Religion
}: 15/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian,
icy, bone, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark

Full details here

What spells should I use? Should I abandon Chei for Makhleb?

I haven't done much zigging so any advice is appreciated.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 19:03

chin up everything sucks: Jan 29, 2012

I'm doing something dumb as hell and it's WORKING

That said, I have no idea what to do with this felid now. I suppose I should start pumping some spells or something.

*edit* And one-hit by a battleaxe of electrocution in the hands of maud

chin up everything sucks fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 26, 2016

# ? Jan 26, 2016 20:15

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

ThermosAquaticus posted:

So how do I (mega)zig?

What spells should I use? Should I abandon Chei for Makhleb?

I haven't done much zigging so any advice is appreciated.

Ditch some of the spells you aren't using. Freezing for certain, Throw Icicle might not have the damage necessary for single targets anymore, Ozo's Armour since you're going to be primarily kicking around in Stone form I imagine. Chain Lightning is going to be eclipsed by Shatter/Tornado too.
Then you start learning things like Death's Door and/or Borgnjor's for emergency use. Iron Shot is generally the go-to for single target shooting this far in but you could try Poison Arrow since you have the book handy. You could theoretically run Glaciate as a third level 9 spell for whatever reason. And Phase Shift + Aura of Abjuration to round out the remaining buff spells at your disposal.

I wouldn't dump Chei because he's pumping your stats; you might end up without being able to cast your level 9 kill spells. Even disregarding that you will be missing out on significant spellpower and your EV won't be as buff either.

Take your time with zigging. You have really good breather invocations in Chei that synergize well with being a statue and having Tornado. And don't run yourself completely empty of MP in case of emergencies. Channeling as a statue probably isn't going to be fun.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 20:57

ThermosAquaticus: Nov 9, 2013

Sage Grimm posted:

I wouldn't dump Chei because he's pumping your stats; you might end up without being able to cast your level 9 kill spells. Even disregarding that you will be missing out on significant spellpower and your EV won't be as buff either.

Take your time with zigging. You have really good breather invocations in Chei that synergize well with being a statue and having Tornado. And don't run yourself completely empty of MP in case of emergencies. Channeling as a statue probably isn't going to be fun.

I'm not sure Chei is essential for my casting; I sacrificed piety to get into a trove earlier, and they were still castable.

I asked about a god change as I wasn't sure how Chei's invocations would work in a Zig. I mean Step from time is good, but wouldn't you just be in a situation where you still have bunch of enemies about? Not much room for them to go.

How about Lichform for mummy floors?

# ? Jan 26, 2016 22:09

all the ladies say I: Aug 24, 2005; Acción de Espionaje Táctico

Make sure you have resist corrosion too, my first attempt at a ziggaraut I beat the first one and in round two I got to floor 23 it was spiders, ghost moths, and entropy weavers. I was instantly sapped of all mana and cornered trying to poke my way through a wall of spiders until the corrosion stacked too high and I was barely able to escape with my life and ascend.

That could be innate with statue form, in unsure as I've never used it.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 22:25

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Inquisitive Banana posted:

Make sure you have resist corrosion too, my first attempt at a ziggaraut I beat the first one and in round two I got to floor 23 it was spiders, ghost moths, and entropy weavers. I was instantly sapped of all mana and cornered trying to poke my way through a wall of spiders until the corrosion stacked too high and I was barely able to escape with my life and ascend.

That could be innate with statue form, in unsure as I've never used it.

That's why a source of Invis is vital for zigs (since ghost moths can't see invisible).

# ? Jan 26, 2016 22:47

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

ThermosAquaticus posted:

I'm not sure Chei is essential for my casting; I sacrificed piety to get into a trove earlier, and they were still castable.

I asked about a god change as I wasn't sure how Chei's invocations would work in a Zig. I mean Step from time is good, but wouldn't you just be in a situation where you still have bunch of enemies about? Not much room for them to go.

How about Lichform for mummy floors?

Cool, I wasn't sure if it came up in your consideration towards switching. Makhleb is basically going to give you at most HP on kills. Their invocations aren't really geared towards the density of enemy you'll encounter in ziggurats but I guess they can do in a pinch if you run out of MP and need to swat something at range. The choice is up to you, there certainly isn't a wrong answer for what god to take. I figured you would have more fun with Chei versus Makhleb on what's basically a won character.

Step From Time would mean enemies approach you so that spinning up a Tornado would have them in effect and damage range for longer than if they were at the edges of your line of sight. Same for queueing up Shatter after waking up the level. Or getting things close to just mash them with your stone fists without having to rely on blinks. Don't think of your god abilities as mere emergency use only; you're going to be slaying a lot of speedy enemies especially in Statue Form so your piety will be kept relatively high.

Statue Form already has half torment resistance built in and you've got maxed out rN. That's why I was nudging you towards Death's Door and Borgnjor's; Lichform isn't going to provide you with much that you already have.

Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jan 27, 2016

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:46

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

The best zigging god is probably vehumet because he makes it easiest to blindly firestorm stuff out of LoS with darkness up, which is hands down the most effective strategy.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:00

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

I'm gonna give advice for megazigging because your current character (especially if you learn glaciate & deaths door, which are easy gets) can waltz through their first zig without problems. You've got fog, you've got invis, you've got heal wounds, and you have multiple level 9 spells. Easy.

For more serious zigging, there are a few important things you are missing:

Throwing. Pick up every javelin of penetration you find. Other kinds aren't important, but you need a stack of penetration javelins. The reason for this is silent spectres & pan lords, though they can also help if you get mana drained by moths. Being able to quickly snipe something blocking your casting is essential. At a pinch you can use rods to cover this weakness while your throwing skill/javelin pile are low, but you'll really want the infinite easy-access ranged damage of javelins. (Side tip: Things casting silence have a different description than silenced enemies around them, so use that to pick out the pan lord casting silence from the group)
A better god. Chei isn't that great in zigs. Step from time doesn't help much when the level is small, open, and packed full of enemies, Slouch is less impressive when you can shatter, and the stats are nice but not essential. Your best options are Vehumet (infinite mana, aka the most important zig resource) Makhleb (huge hp regen) or Gozag (mass paralysis aura, infinite hw/magic/buff potions)
Spells. Deaths door is essential, and you want glaciate & firestorm as well. Other spells are mostly to your choosing, but corpse embrace is especially good in zigs. You can drop your single target spells, they can be replaced with the level 9 spells. If you are doing a lot of zigs you can also drop controlled blink eventually, since you will rack up hundreds of blink scrolls. Other potentially helpful spells include darkness, summon butterflies (combo it with glaciate for butterfly ice sculptures!) and lichform (be careful with this one)
Mana. A staff of energy alone won't cut it. If you choose Vehumet this problem is basically nonexistent, but the other gods want more mana. Sublimation of blood is a decent choice if you are with Makhleb. With Gozag mana potion petitions will help but you should also look at Wucad and/or sublimation as well. Artefacts with +mp are good for you.

Aside from that, the general strategies for zigs is stand in the corner and blast everything that comes your way. I would suggest for very dangerous floors (anything with silence, chaos/pan lord floors, fire floors) you should sit right in the corner. This way it is much harder to get swarmed and you can hit all the pan lords/orbs of fire at once. It also ensures that fog will block los reliably. For other floors (Hells, Abyss, Tomb etc) you should take a position where you are diagonally out from the corner to the point where you can just see it at the edge of los. The enemies are often less durable so you are less likely to be surrounded, and this position lets you utilise tornado & shatter well. It also lets you blink back into the corner should anything dangerous happen which will buy you enough time to recover. For easy floors you can just stroll down the middle spamming shatter & tornado.

Don't use statue form in zigs.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:07

all the ladies say I: Aug 24, 2005; Acción de Espionaje Táctico

Floodkiller posted:

That's why a source of Invis is vital for zigs (since ghost moths can't see invisible).

Good to know, that character was a bad rear end merfolk chaos knight who abandoned xom's heretic ways after he gifted me an intense set of mutations. Eventually becoming a gold dragon wearing chanting dude flinging glaciates at the sinners in my first completed ziggaraut.

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue//inqbanana/morgue-inqbanana-20160125-030956.txt

I ended up switching to FDA for attempt two. Was the first time I ever have been able to cast level 9 spells and they were awesome, even if I didn't get my caster hybrid on until late game.

all the ladies say I fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jan 27, 2016

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:31

meatpath: Feb 13, 2003

I vote insubstantial wisps as the next thing to get axed.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 04:04

Person Dyslexic: Jul 23, 2007

Disc of storms is amazing for ziggs too. Silence can be horrifying, but the disc doesn't care and still murders the hell out of chaff, which with mak means constant hp regen and eventually, dead silent spectres.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 05:30

Dee Ehm: Apr 10, 2014

Floodkiller posted:

That's why a source of Invis is vital for zigs (since ghost moths can't see invisible).

A curious species, cursed with a perpetual identity crisis.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 05:51

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

I guess Gozag has a disadvantage for megazigging, because he doesn't let you mut scum. Do that, by the way. Curemut potions are common zig loot so once you get a good number you should start chowing down on purple meat to get a good mut base. e: I guess he can provide a ton of potion shops which might have !mut in them. Shop costs scale up quickly though.

You should be picking Vehumet anyway.

Darox fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jan 27, 2016

# ? Jan 27, 2016 13:37

ThermosAquaticus: Nov 9, 2013

Thanks for the advice everyone. I ended up going with Gozag, and holy poo poo his distraction on kills is just disgusting in zigs. I've ended up learning all 4 level 9 spells, because when you're in the corner enemies don't come closer to you often enough, so only shatter and firestorm can hit them. On my 5th(?) zig now, I'll wrap it up if I finish a zig where every square has a monster.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 21:26

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

68k posted:

I vote insubstantial wisps as the next thing to get axed.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 21:31

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

As always, acquirement pulls through.

code:

the -6 hat of the Dice (worn) {rC- rCorr Int+3}.

# ? Jan 28, 2016 03:13

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

Sometimes you gotta roll a hard -6

# ? Jan 28, 2016 03:46

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Floodkiller posted:

As always, acquirement pulls through.
code:
the -6 hat of the Dice (worn) {rC- rCorr Int+3}.

Oh that. That's when the acid has basically saturated the fabric so much that it's nearly sheer. But you look drat smart in it.

# ? Jan 28, 2016 03:53

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Can't corrode your gear if its already been ruined. Checkmate, acid blobs :smug:

# ? Jan 28, 2016 05:13

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Who needs speed runs when you can do nudie runs?

# ? Jan 28, 2016 05:16

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

Internet Kraken posted:

Can't corrode your gear if its already been ruined. Checkmate, acid blobs

Does corroding -AC gear increase your AC?

# ? Jan 28, 2016 06:13

chin up everything sucks: Jan 29, 2012

Unimpressed posted:

Who needs speed runs when you can do nudie runs?

Thats why I play Felid all the time.

# ? Jan 28, 2016 07:40

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Floodkiller posted:

As always, acquirement pulls through.
code:
the -6 hat of the Dice (worn) {rC- rCorr Int+3}.

Jesus, that is a dog poo poo artifact. Almost hilariously bad.

# ? Jan 28, 2016 15:50

Electric Lady: Mar 21, 2010; To be victorious
you must find glory
in the little things

You haven't lived until this has happened to you:

An ancient zyme killed me in short order, of course. :shepicide:

# ? Jan 28, 2016 16:09

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Electric Lady posted:

You haven't lived until this has happened to you:

An ancient zyme killed me in short order, of course.

Shame you didn't take Lugonu from the altar that was visible from where you started in the Abyss.

# ? Jan 28, 2016 16:12

Electric Lady: Mar 21, 2010; To be victorious
you must find glory
in the little things

I already had Sif :smith:

# ? Jan 28, 2016 16:16

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

If I got banished that early I would have absolutely taken Lugonu to get out, because otherwise it's not happening. I don't think Sif's rage is very bad anyways

e: that said taking Lugonu abyss altars when I get the chance and am not certain about my chances in abyss is about the one smart non-risky strategic play I ever make

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 28, 2016

# ? Jan 28, 2016 16:55

heard u like girls: Mar 25, 2013

Electric Lady posted:

I already had Sif

Sif sure helped you in the Abyss lol ! Mightve gotten something to read in there haha

just joshin

E; last nite i was going to fight Arachne in spidernest. Cast Summon Forest, wall turns into a tree, Arachne falls from said tree into deep water and drowns. lmao

heard u like girls fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 28, 2016

# ? Jan 28, 2016 18:55

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# ? May 19, 2024 00:27

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Sif Muna, the toilet reading material goddess. Can anyone provide a compelling reason to worship her?

# ? Jan 28, 2016 23:09

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