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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from? This poll is closed. |
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| Marco Polo |
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36 | 20.69% |
| The Myth Makers |
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10 | 5.75% |
| The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve |
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45 | 25.86% |
| The Savages |
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2 | 1.15% |
| The Smugglers |
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2 | 1.15% |
| The Highlanders |
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45 | 25.86% |
| The Macra Terror |
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21 | 12.07% |
| Fury from the Deep |
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13 | 7.47% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
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So is there any way to stream Classic Who in Australia? I want to take the opportunity of a New Who-less year to watch a bunch of the classic serials that I've never seen (so, all of them). I'm not sure what approach I'll take for it, probably 'watch a Doctor until I'm bored with that Doctor, then move on', but I'd have to know where to see it first.
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Jan 27, 2016 08:25
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CobiWann posted:I didn't want to give away anything about the actual plot if I could help it, which is why I didn't address the "solution." But I feel that it worked - the seeds are there with the time loop and the phrase "Edward Grove is alive." The little bit of exposition is mixed with the house taunting Charley so it doesn't feel like an info dump. I would agree if Edward Grove was the one responsible, but he's just a by-product of Edith's death. While the house itself is set up, and hinted at from the very first minute, Edith is mainly defined by being "nothing". Charley barely remembers her, and the listener can't remember her because she never was a character up to that point. It's basically a story about marginalisation that marginalises its characters. Admittedly, I didn't realise how old Chimes is. That makes it more understandable. minimalist posted:This, however Chimes just pales in comparison to The Doctor's Wife. Both are counternarratives with evil houses in them, but Neil Gaiman's version actually establishes its marginalised characters well. And More fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 08:54
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And More posted:I would agree if Edward Grove was the one responsible, but he's just a by-product of Edith's death. While the house itself is set up, and hinted at from the very first minute, Edith is mainly defined by being "nothing". Charley barely remembers her, and the listener can't remember her because she never was a character up to that point. It's basically a story about marginalisation that marginalises its characters. Admittedly, I didn't realise how old Chimes is. That makes it more understandable. I took the marginalization to be part of the whole "upstairs/downstairs" concept that ran through the Edwardian era. The people downstairs were barely noticed by the people upstairs unless something went horribly wrong and then upstairs would criticize and complain. Charley was Edith's world but Charley didn't remember her, so the thin characterization made sense, and to me was just enough to make Edith an entity and the other servants a blank slate to be rewritten when needed.
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Jan 27, 2016 10:38
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Cleretic posted:So is there any way to stream Classic Who in Australia? I want to take the opportunity of a New Who-less year to watch a bunch of the classic serials that I've never seen (so, all of them). I'm not sure what approach I'll take for it, probably 'watch a Doctor until I'm bored with that Doctor, then move on', but I'd have to know where to see it first. They're all on Dailymotion, last time I checked.
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Jan 27, 2016 11:24
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And More posted:I would agree if Edward Grove was the one responsible, but he's just a by-product of Edith's death. While the house itself is set up, and hinted at from the very first minute, Edith is mainly defined by being "nothing". Charley barely remembers her, and the listener can't remember her because she never was a character up to that point. It's basically a story about marginalisation that marginalises its characters. Admittedly, I didn't realise how old Chimes is. That makes it more understandable. It's not caused by Edith's death either, but by Charley's life and the Doctor's decision to pull a "what the hell" Doc Brown at the end of Storm Warning. Paul McG's second season is structured around the fallout from that decision. That's the main reason I usually tell people not to listen to Chimes in isolation. Even if Charley could barely remember Edith, their lives were still connected - there's a lot in that period about the way that small decisions (to you) largely affect other people you're not aware of. So, like It's A Wonderful Life. With a time loop. If George Bailey was "supposed" to die. Which makes it more like the first Beavis and Butt-Head Christmas special. But you get the idea. EDIT - Actually dealing with the consequence of the Doctor breaking the rules was one of the ways Big Finish expanded from the onscreen past. These stories were mostly given to Paul McGann - as the current Doctor, they could be as different as they liked without worrying about expectations for what an "Eight" story should be, including featuring an ongoing storyline. It's one of the reasons that run is so beloved 'round these parts. After The War fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 14:52
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Yeah, that's the bleak joke behind Chimes -- the Doctor and Charley need Edith to die and commit herself to a life of longing and neglect in order for the two of them to live and go on living. They're just as bad as Edward Grove -- why else would it try to turn them into a Lord and Lady rather than serving staff? The ending isn't remotely happy; it's selfish. At its heart, The Chimes of Midnight is an eviscerating critique of the late-Edwardian era, and of anyone who'd go around dressing and acting like Edwardians to boot. How many times has the Doctor required people to kill themselves, to sacrifice their lives in order for him or his companion to live?Is the Doctor and Charley's decision to make her feel good about herself, to give her a purpose, any better when they're still exploiting her utterly miserable life? Incidentally, I thoroughly disagree about Edith's characterization being superficial -- the difference between the older, angrier version of the character and the younger, naive one is fairly pronounced. Plus the character incorporates the struggle of being same-sex attracted in ways that adds a depth to her struggle -- and I think a queer reading of the play, particularly the way it uses the dead/suicidal lesbian cliche, would be potentially interesting.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:08
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After The War posted:It's not caused by Edith's death either, but by Charley's life and the Doctor's decision to pull a "what the hell" Doc Brown at the end of Storm Warning. Paul McG's second season is structured around the fallout from that decision. That's the main reason I usually tell people not to listen to Chimes in isolation. Even if Charley could barely remember Edith, their lives were still connected - there's a lot in that period about the way that small decisions (to you) largely affect other people you're not aware of. I disagree with that interpretation of cause and effect. The Doctor makes the paradox possible, but Edith sustains it. Well, now I'm intrigued. Let's say I only listen to Storm Warning, Chimes, Seasons of Fear and Neverland, would I be able to follow the season finale? Would Storm Warning help me appreciate Chimes more, or do I need to listen to the other ones in between? CobiWann posted:I took the marginalization to be part of the whole "upstairs/downstairs" concept that ran through the Edwardian era. The people downstairs were barely noticed by the people upstairs unless something went horribly wrong and then upstairs would criticize and complain. Charley was Edith's world but Charley didn't remember her, so the thin characterization made sense, and to me was just enough to make Edith an entity and the other servants a blank slate to be rewritten when needed. Open Source Idiom posted:At its heart, The Chimes of Midnight is an eviscerating critique of the late-Edwardian era, and of anyone who'd go around dressing and acting like Edwardians to boot. How many times has the Doctor required people to kill themselves, to sacrifice their lives in order for him or his companion to live?Is the Doctor and Charley's decision to make her feel good about herself, to give her a purpose, any better when they're still exploiting her utterly miserable life? That sort of attempt at subversion runs into the trap of emulating the thing it's criticising, though. A Clockwork Orange, for example, attempts to show how the aestheticisation of violence can be dangerously appealing. It does so by being better than any other film at aestheticising violence. I don't doubt that it could work if the entire season built on the premise, though. quote:Incidentally, I thoroughly disagree about Edith's characterization being superficial -- the difference between the older, angrier version of the character and the younger, naive one is fairly pronounced. Plus the character incorporates the struggle of being same-sex attracted in ways that adds a depth to her struggle -- and I think a queer reading of the play, particularly the way it uses the dead/suicidal lesbian cliche, would be potentially interesting. I'd argue that it doesn't really matter much whether you give the culprit a proper introduction once they have been revealed. It's all about making the puzzle feel fair, even if it's impossible to solve in reality. Edith would have to show up once as Charley's servant before the reveal.
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Jan 27, 2016 21:28
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Zaroff posted:Apparently it is leaving Netflix US this time. At the same time however it is remaining on Netflix UK and Netflix Canada... No problem then 
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Jan 27, 2016 23:13
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And More posted:I disagree with that interpretation of cause and effect. The Doctor makes the paradox possible, but Edith sustains it. She did. Charley mentioned "We had an Edith that worked for us, too." when she first saw her name in the dust.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:44
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Dabir posted:She did. Charley mentioned "We had an Edith that worked for us, too." when she first saw her name in the dust. You're right. I completely forgot about that. Still not exactly "showing up", but better than nothing, I guess. edit: That stuff is clearly pretty subjective. Edith would have to show up briefly during an earlier play so you'd get a brief glimpse at her obsession with Charley. Nothing drawn out, just a tiny odd moment. Anything less seems like cheating to me. And More fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 23:49
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minimalist posted:Been years since I've listened to Fearmonger but I have neither good feelings nor bad toward it, all I remember is it being a pretty standard "Seven fights a tyrannical regime" story, and any specific good/bad details have been washed away with time Fearmonger has a really nice scene in episode 3, I think, where the Doctor is in the waiting room after Ace has been shot (trying to do a version of his sniper scene), and it's a lovely way to show him as above the villain without screaming and shouting about how powerful or clever he is, just by pointing out that he's an old man and the worst thing you could do just happened.
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Jan 28, 2016 02:51
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Isn't the whole Netflix thing less of a "show gets saved last minute" and more of a "contract negotiations happen every single year for this at this time" scenario? I remember everyone losing their poo poo about this both last year and the year before, and it's never a big deal in the end.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:46
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It's the latter, but you'd think the sky was falling was every time.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:56
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Dear Moffat: if you really want to go out with a bang, and ESPECIALLY if the rumors are true and Capaldi's leaving too, PLEASE have the Doctor come back for Susan. I don't give a poo poo if Big Finish already did it, I think you could do it better AND I think Capaldi is by far the most fitting NuWho Doctor to do it. Also if they ever need to cast young Susan again for any reason they ought to ditch who ever they got for "An Adventure in Space and Time" and get Ivana Baquero (aka the girl who starred in Pan's Labyrinth): 
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Jan 28, 2016 16:33
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And More posted:Well, now I'm intrigued. Let's say I only listen to Storm Warning, Chimes, Seasons of Fear and Neverland, would I be able to follow the season finale? Would Storm Warning help me appreciate Chimes more, or do I need to listen to the other ones in between? "Need to" is a subjective thing. Those are absolutely the best stories of that season, but there isn't a bad story either, and the other ones do good job of building up the damaged timeline threat from "hmm, this isn't how I remember it" in Invaders From Mars to the total temporal chaos at the opening of Neverland. There may have been way too much going on in it, but I rather enjoyed Time of the Daleks, especially the way it works into the season's story arc as different groups try to exploit the temporal crisis for their own ends. Storm Warning is, while not a fantastic story, fun to listen to despite early BF cheese and gives Charley a great entrance. There are also a number of callbacks in her final Eight story, The Girl Who Never Was, which is a great audio. Personally, in my initial Big Finish explorations, I found it distracting to hear new companions without having done their introduction story first. Not that you have to follow me down the lunatic path of All Big Finish In Release Order*, but it's nice to hear the ongoing plot points as they happen rather being referenced later. Of course, the other thing is that, per the First Rule of Doctor Who, you may find yourself really liking some stories that didn't click with other people. And I'd love to keep hearing your opinions, especially if we continue discussing them from a narrative/story perspective. *Except Iris Wildthyme or Bernice Summerfield solo stuff
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Jan 28, 2016 17:27
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Paging DoctorWhat, please report to the thread, DoctorWhat...Uproxx Guy posted:No one who likes Doctor Who also enjoys Transformers, but I digress.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:30
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I mean, maybe the guy means the Michael Bay Transformers films? Because I can probably name a half dozen people I know that like Transformers and Who. And about as many that like either one or the other. Big Bang Theory is easy enough to dislike without making things up.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:36
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That's a crazy lie, I have Who figures next to Transformers on my shelves.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:46
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The_Doctor posted:That's a crazy lie, I have Who figures next to Transformers on my shelves. I feel like we post in a lot of the same threads.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:51
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I liked Transformers when I was younger if that counts, and I did also like Doctor Who at the time
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Jan 28, 2016 17:55
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Gen 1 biatches
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Jan 28, 2016 17:55
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Gen 1 biatches GEE WUN RULEZ.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:57
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this is loving disgusting, I watch the Transformers movie at least once a year e: soundwave is the best btw
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Jan 28, 2016 18:00
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really Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye is a good comic to read if you like Nu Who and has even made several references to it.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:03
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Hooray! It's Christmas in January! ...Again! Thank you again, The_Doctor! Boy this book is massive. Even though it only covers five years of the show. I mean, Volume 4 also does that and it's not nearly as huge. Knowing how About Time thoroughly picks at every continuity clash for sheer posterity, it's probably a lot of UNIT Dating pecking. 
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Jan 28, 2016 18:23
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Acne Rain posted:really Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye is a good comic to read if you like Nu Who and has even made several references to it. MTME has Optimus Prime quoting Tony Benn. I would love it for that alone.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:30
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Acne Rain posted:really Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye is a good comic to read if you like Nu Who and has even made several references to it. Fil5000 posted:MTME has Optimus Prime quoting Tony Benn. I would love it for that alone. So I guess the quality is highly variable?
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Jan 28, 2016 18:45
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I'd say it's pretty high quality throughout but a lot of complaining has been had about some of the latest issues.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:49
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I enjoy the Bay films as "insider art", an expression of raw American id, and also the toys for the second one were  .MTMTE also owns.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:05
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Tim Burns Effect posted:Dear Moffat: if you really want to go out with a bang, and ESPECIALLY if the rumors are true and Capaldi's leaving too, PLEASE have the Doctor come back for Susan. I don't give a poo poo if Big Finish already did it, I think you could do it better AND I think Capaldi is by far the most fitting NuWho Doctor to do it. Susan's such an awkward thing to come back to, though, since she's from an era where it's obvious that the Doctor wasn't a Time Lord, he was just some dude. Leaving Susan behind is just weird if she's going to live for thousands of years and David Cameron (!) is probably going to die in 20 from like, dysentery or something. It would be really difficult because a) you'd have to reconcile all of that somehow and b) it's a really deep bit of continuity to rely on. The deepest Moffat has dug into the past series is probably the Davros two-parter from this series, and even then it's perfectly enjoyable if you've only seen Davros back in Series 4. If we're gonna bring any old companions back I'd want it to be Ace. Not just because she's the best, but because she never got a real ending to her character arc on account of multiple parts of Doctor Who being canceled.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:20
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Rochallor posted:Susan's such an awkward thing to come back to, though, since she's from an era where it's obvious that the Doctor wasn't a Time Lord, he was just some dude. Leaving Susan behind is just weird if she's going to live for thousands of years and David Cameron (!) is probably going to die in 20 from like, dysentery or something. It would be really difficult because a) you'd have to reconcile all of that somehow and b) it's a really deep bit of continuity to rely on. The deepest Moffat has dug into the past series is probably the Davros two-parter from this series, and even then it's perfectly enjoyable if you've only seen Davros back in Series 4. She and Seven were gonna come back for S4 or S5 of the Sarah Jane Adventures 
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Jan 28, 2016 19:21
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DoctorWhat posted:She and Seven were gonna come back for S4 or S5 of the Sarah Jane Adventures Man, that would have been so good.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:24
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Rochallor posted:David Cameron (!) That's only in the Target book, in the TV programme he was called David Campbell
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Jan 28, 2016 19:27
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FreezingInferno posted:Hooray! It's Christmas in January! ...Again! Yay! I'm glad it got there so "soon", it had a projected delivery date of some time running to late Feb.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:32
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I wonder if Chibnall might revisit Nefertiti and Riddell from "Dinosaurs On A Spaceship", as Moffat did with River. Probably too much of a gap between that story and him taking over, I suppose.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:53
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The_Doctor posted:Yay! I'm glad it got there so "soon", it had a projected delivery date of some time running to late Feb. Amazon can be weird like that. I ordered some Amiibos for the Wii U I got for Christmas, and it still says they're going to be there in mid-February. Despite, you know, the things having been on my shelf for two weeks now.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:54
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Rochallor posted:Susan's such an awkward thing to come back to, though, since she's from an era where it's obvious that the Doctor wasn't a Time Lord, he was just some dude. Leaving Susan behind is just weird if she's going to live for thousands of years and David Cameron (!) is probably going to die in 20 from like, dysentery or something. It would be really difficult because a) you'd have to reconcile all of that somehow and b) it's a really deep bit of continuity to rely on. The deepest Moffat has dug into the past series is probably the Davros two-parter from this series, and even then it's perfectly enjoyable if you've only seen Davros back in Series 4. Fine I'll settle for Chatterton then 
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Jan 28, 2016 20:49
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Tim Burns Effect posted:Fine I'll settle for Chatterton then Nobody "settles" for Chatersby
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Jan 28, 2016 21:39
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Rochallor posted:b) it's a really deep bit of continuity to rely on. I mean surely no one who watched Friends was baffled whenever Rachel Green's sister April showed up for the first time.
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Jan 28, 2016 21:52
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Susan was painted in such broad strokes it's not like you're getting a character from The Wire turning up and expecting everyone to know everything about D'angelo Barksdale, say. Sarah Jane had infinitely more to her but that was handled ok, and even lead to a spinoff. Admittedly she was there for more reason than "Let's stick in some fan service", that story was about Rose more than anything else.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:23
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