Redcordial posted:

You are the problem with this loving world.

I know don't poke the poop, but holy poo poo, you are the loving problem.

tithin posted:

He makes an entirely depressing point. No less true for it though.

quote:

So, what chance Shorten will see a direct challenge or come under pressure from senior party figures to stand down in the wake of Turnbull's rise to the prime ministership?

It may be less unlikely than you think, even considering the rapidly closing pre-election window and the logistical hurdles facing prospective challengers.

Among the alternatives being quietly canvassed are the shadow treasurer Chris Bowen, deputy leader Tanya Plibersek, and the man Shorten out-pointed following the 2013 election defeat, Anthony Albanese.

Sources in the Labor camp say chatter has continued over summer as a succession of surveys chart the Labor leader's disastrously low personal polling. And, they caution, such talk could step up once parliamentarians cohabit the capital next week.

The party's hard heads have watched public support dive since the removal of Abbott, to the point that nobody now thinks Labor can win. The danger for Shorten is if disappointment hardens into anger at the prospect of not merely losing, but of actually going backwards.

According to one well-connected figure on the party's Right, the Left's Victorian factional warlord, Kim Carr, is reading the tea leaves and has become strangely interested in the extent of future support for Bowen. Word is, this is driven by his view that if Shorten's leadership becomes unviable, an ABA policy should guide deliberations – that being Anyone But Albo.

But if Bowen has supporters, those close to the shadow treasurer insist he remains loyal to Shorten. Few doubt that he covets the leadership down the track, but he believes his time is yet to arrive.

For a switch to occur it would take ether a significant groundswell – specifically the signatures of 60 per cent of the parliamentary party in favour of a spill – pursuant to Kevin Rudd's 2013 rule change – or for Shorten to agree to step down in the interests of the party.

Neither is likely but neither can be ruled out. Of course, the Caucus could also simply ditch the rule.

Electoral support for Shorten as preferred prime minister has dropped below 20 per cent, compared to Turnbull on 60 per cent and frequently higher.

A ReachTEL poll of more than 3000 voters last week gave Turnbull an advantage of 81-19 as the better PM, and put the government 10 points clear after preferences at 55 per cent to 45. The final Fairfax-Ipsos for 2015 gave the advantage to Turnbull as preferred PM at 69 to 18. Against Abbott, Shorten had led 50 to 34, this time last year.

Albanese, the most experienced senior player on the ALP front bench, is widely regarded as the most likely replacement, should the position become vacant. It has escaped no one's notice that he has stepped up his public profile over summer. Thursday was a case in point, holding a press event to announce his decision to re-contest his own seat of Grayndler and then using the occasion to launch a textbook political attack on Turnbull. "He is at war with the positions he has held over a political lifetime, on the republic, on marriage equality, on taking serious action to avoid dangerous climate change."

Liberal Party polling confirms Albanese has a higher recognition and popularity than Shorten's. A proven parliamentary slugger, he solidly out-polled Shorten in Labor's first rank-and-file half of ballot for the leadership in 2013, but failed to secure a strong enough vote among his Caucus colleagues.

It was a result that raised questions over the new voting system, and over Shorten's support, suggesting that at least among ordinary ALP members, it was tepid.

Meanwhile, other factors weigh against a late switch. A change of Labor leaders could spark an early election if Turnbull decides Labor's turmoil provides the most advantageous time to pull the trigger.

Another is that Labor was so badly trounced after the Rudd-Gillard wars that it already lost most of its marginal seats, meaning there aren't the nervous ranks of marginal-seat MPs fretting about losing their jobs in an anti-Labor swing.

But perhaps the most compelling reason is that, with an election loss looking increasingly certain, nobody who seriously covets the prime ministership can see the point in leading their party to defeat.

Best leave that to Bill.

Starshark posted:

Yup. The world's the way it is because of dickheads like him.

Laserface posted:

The world is hosed in 50 years any way you slice it. Not to say abandon ye all hope, but do yourselves a favor and lighten the gently caress up once in a while.

Starshark posted:

If 'lightening the gently caress up' means being anything like you, I think I'll stick with Dark and Alternative.

Brown Paper Bag posted:

Anne Aly got the ALP preselection for Cowen in WA. Should be a fun contest given Luke Simpkin's 'contributions' to public discourse about Islam.

The Australian posted:

]The mother is bent over in mute grief, the father has tears dripping down his cheeks.

Near the couple is a framed portrait of the young man, a university student, who has broken their heart. “Please find my son, please find my son,” begs the mother. The family had moved to Perth from Libya in 2010, looking for a better life; their devout son, now 23, studied biochemistry before switching to economics. Now he’s gone, to join the Islamic State terror group. “They’ve essentially lost their son,” observes counter-terrorism expert Anne Aly. “You’d have to be a monster not to be moved.”

Aly has witnessed this scene several times as she meets with families shattered by an ideology that has sent their children into the arms of ISIS. “I will often get a call from someone who knows the family. I’ll talk to the family and ask what they need to keep their life going, legal advice or mentoring their child or even finding a job. Some need media advice, some wonder why the police have taken things away. Every single time they are in shock, they’re afraid of what others are saying. Often I’m rung by parents who are simply worried about their kids. I say, ‘Let me have a look at their Facebook page’.”

Aly, 48, has just greeted one of her own two sons, 24-year-old Adam, as he breezes through the lounge room during our interview. She scoffs at the “red flag” theory that warns to look out for signs of radicalisation in young men. “That model – ‘If kids do this, it means they’re radicalised’ – is useless,” she says. “It creates a lot of fear around the topic, and often it’s pushed by people who don’t understand that young people may adopt religious practices and ­symbols that happen to be the same mainstream ones adopted by Islamic State propaganda.”

Aly has spent the past decade trying to get inside the heads of extremists of all kinds, from right-wing nationalists to jihadis. An associate professor at Perth’s Curtin University who heads a small team in “countering online violent extremism research”, she has trawled online propaganda, compared notes with European and US counterparts, and sat down with former extremists to ask them the question that everyone wants the answer to: “What led you to become involved in the first place?”

As more Australian jihadis and terror suspects make the headlines each week, Aly’s phone rings for another media interview. She’s gilt-edged talent: a smart, articulate, Egyptian-born academic who speaks unaccented English and a fair smattering of Arabic. She makes a point of referring in interviews to her postdoctoral research and prolific publications, and insists she is unfazed by commentators such as Andrew Bolt and Miranda Devine who, after her appearance on ABC-TV’s Q&A last September, dismissed her respectively as a “Muslim activist” and a “belligerent Muslim woman… billed by the ABC as a ‘terrorism expert’.”

She points her critics to her various roles – as a member of the research network advising the UN Security Council Counter-Terrorism Directorate, and a member of the Council for Australian Arab Relations. Most recently, in February, she was the only Australian speaker invited by Barack Obama to address his ­Countering Violent Extremism summit at the White House. That invitation came because of Aly’s personal activities that go far beyond her academic pursuits. She puts long, unpaid hours into ­People Against Violent Extremism (PaVE), an independent organisation she set up in 2013.

“We’ve got no formal backing, but we use our Curtin research that then feeds into PaVE activities,” she says, moving to a laptop on the kitchen table. She clicks on PaVE’s ­website to show some of Australia’s first video material about the ­dangers of violent extremism. The clips are ­evocative, from testimony by AFL footballer and devout Muslim Bachar Houli about being a leader, to acted scenes showing two young men – one Arab, one Caucasian – in dark rooms, turning off extremist messages and rejoining their mates and family. One of the actors is 22-year-old Karim, Aly’s media-savvy younger son, who helped put the videos together. The PaVE videos were paid for with a $115,000 grant from the federal Attorney-General’s Department. A further grant of $40,800 will fund a PaVE program to link up 10 young ­people with peer-to-peer support.

Aly argues fiercely against the naysayers who dismiss such actions as marginal, or hopelessly soft. “When you work closely with young people you see the possibility for change.” She sits back and mimics what she calls the “gatekeepers” who “pick their teeth, shrug and say, ‘Ugh, it doesn’t work’. But ask the young ones and they say, ‘Yeah, we really want to be involved’. What works is what young people tell us works.”

And how do you reach the most alienated individuals? “Through the ones who aren’t yet radicalised and are still talking to me,” she responds. Later, in her office at Curtin, Aly explains that she engages directly, or online, or via intermediaries, with a few individuals whose passports have been confiscated, or who profess to hate the country they are trapped in. Or who are simply vulnerable.

“OK son, turn your computer off and go home, you’ve got a headache,” she tells Hussain, a polite young man loitering in the office. She’s hired him two days a week to do online research. Hussain is a recent Muslim migrant from ­Britain; his mother was worried about the ­company he’d kept. “I’ve given him a job, otherwise he’d have nothing to do and he’d be lost,” Aly explains simply.

When she rings from her car a few days later, her concern is even closer to home; she’s just farewelled her son Karim at Perth ­airport and worries more than most Australian mothers about her son’s ­welfare as he backpacks through Europe. “After the ­London bombings when that young Brazilian man was shot in error, I pulled my boys aside and said, ‘Whatever you do, don’t run through a train station with a backpack on.’ It’s scary stuff.”

Aly’s origins are “very working-class Egyptian and Australian”. Her parents migrated here in 1969 when she was two. “Mum was a nurse, Dad an engineer, but they both worked in ­factories here, then Dad drove buses.” They lived for a time in Queensland. “The kids wouldn’t play with me because I had dark skin and they thought I was Aboriginal. That made me realise Aboriginal people have it 10 times worse than Muslims.” The family settled in the Sydney suburb of Lakemba, and Aly was sent to a private Anglican girls’ school. “There was one other Muslim girl and we had to study Bible and do chapel,” she recalls. Curious about her Arab background, she went to Egypt to complete an arts degree (“with a minor in acting, for fun”) at the American University in Cairo.

After marrying, Aly moved back to Australia with her Egyptian husband and gave birth to their sons in Perth. Adam and Karim were only three and one when the marriage ended, and Aly went to work as a senior ­policy officer in the Office of Multicultural Interests. When the 9/11 attacks took place, “my first thought was, ‘Please, don’t let it be Muslims who did this’.”

Ironically, though, 9/11 was a career-defining moment; she found herself working on the state’s response to the Federal ­Government’s action plan for counter-terrorism. “I was churning out reports every couple of weeks.” Terrorism was both a political and personal issue. “I wrote my first letter to the newspapers after I saw a mother and teenage daughter sneering and snickering as they walked behind a woman in a hijab. We were ­suddenly sanctioning this kind of behaviour. My fear was not of more terrorism, but of a backlash against my boys.”

Aly’s brief second marriage to an Australian man left her tougher and more driven as a ­single parent. She had already completed (in less than nine months) a master’s thesis on migrant Muslim women, but by the time she began her doctorate (completed in under two years) she had narrowed her focus to “The Fear of Terrorism”. Her first counter-­terrorism conference, in 2005, was a room of 200 men and only one female speaker, herself. By 2011, then minister for foreign affairs Kevin Rudd was standing beside Aly as he launched her first book, Terrorism & Global Security: ­Historical and Contemporary Perspectives.

That book came about in classic Aly fashion. “I was vacuuming one day and whingeing to myself that there were no Australian textbooks about counter-terrorism, only ones about ­homeland security in America. I put down the vacuum hose and wrote a two-page proposal for a book. I sent it off to [publisher] Palgrave ­Macmillan and added, ‘By the way, I’ve got a sample chapter written’. I hadn’t, of course. They got back within a day and said, ‘Love it, send the chapter’. I ended up staying up all night to send it, and five weeks later I had a book contract.”

She’s now working on two more books – one on the internet and terrorism, and another on ­models for the deradicalisation of extremists.

“I’ve never met anyone with the work ethic of Anne, and I’ve worked with pretty hard-working people in my time,” interjects Aly’s third husband, David Allen, a former captain of ­Australia’s ice-hockey team who married her two years ago. “And trust me, she’s feisty.”

Canadian-born Allen, a tall, muscular figure who trained as a police security expert, made a timely entrance into Aly’s life. As her profile has risen, so have the death threats. Aly wrote about it on her blog, in a rebuke against Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s comments about the need for the Muslim community to denounce terrorism, which she paraphrased as: “Muslims don’t speak out and they don’t mean it when they do”.

“I have been insulted, threatened, verbally attacked and had my credentials questioned – all because I spoke out,” she wrote. “I received a barrage of hate mail with comments such as ‘You are vile scum’ and ‘I will dance on your grave when you die.’ I was also put on a ‘who-to-kill’ list that has been published on the internet. Since then, I continue to receive regular hate mail – many from people reiterating your [Abbott’s] very words.”

We talk about Anders Breivik, the Norwegian right-wing extremist who gunned down and blew up 77 people in 2011, and this leads neatly into Aly’s theory about the similarities between jihadis and ultra-nationalists. She introduces me to a lean, shaven-headed Caucasian man in her office. Matt is 35, and says he is studying counter-­intelligence. But in his late teens he led a 150-strong rabble of white supremacists in Sydney. His plan was to get his followers to arm themselves with guns and launch two attacks: first, a diversionary one to occupy police, then another to kill as many Asians as they could. “I had my own anger and internal frustrations that had nothing to do with the people I targeted,” Matt says, adding that his hatred cooled after an Asian man came to his rescue during a fight.

When contacted by Aly, Matt agreed to fly to Perth to record messages about resisting extremist propaganda. “I understand this ­culture of extremism, how these guys think and how they manipulate people. I did it to my ­followers. You have to question the leader’s agenda and say, ‘You’re asking me to do this, why aren’t you doing it?’”

Aly says neo-Nazi organisations such as Combat 18 and the website Stormfront are also drawing in young people. “There are anti-­Islamic groups like ‘Reclaim Australia’ or ‘Ban Halal’ posting up messages that are ­violent, like ‘Kill all the Muslims’. Yet their houses aren’t ­getting raided. I went to the ­police when the Australian Defence League called openly for people to bomb mosques – one ­person even posted their name. I said, ‘Look me in the eye and tell me that if that were a Muslim person, you wouldn’t be beating down their front door.’”

As new strategies are debated in the fight to contain Australia’s terror threat, Aly gets more impatient with the same government that helps fund her PaVE activities. “Tony Abbott’s ­language has set this work back 10 years,” she says. “He makes countering violent extremism all about targeting Muslims, and it puts people off wanting to be part of our activities.”

She’s unimpressed by the policy of not allowing any jihadis back into Australia, even those prepared to preach anti-radicalisation messages. “And although stripping Australian citizenship won’t in itself cause further radicalisation, the way it is framed may do. It will be framed as the Abbott Government saying, ‘If you can’t adhere to Australian values, you don’t deserve to be Australian.’ The message is ‘to be Muslim is to not be Australian’. And who else is giving out that message? Islamic State.”

Yet Aly admits that online seduction is a major problem among young Muslims. The day after Australians woke to news of a raid resulting in the arrest of young Muslim men alleged to be planning an Anzac Day attack, she wrote a poignant article about “the teenager who sits alone in a dark room, his face lit only by the projection of his computer screen”.

“He is transfixed by videos produced by Al Hayat, the media arm of the so-called Islamic State… As he watches, the barrage of images tugs at his emotions: dead Syrian infants with ashen faces; orphans left to perish in the bitter cold of the Syrian winter; grown men with hooded faces, forced to take part in humiliating acts as American soldiers pose smiling… This is Islamic State on the internet.” Thus the young man is converted to the cause. “In his mind, he’s not wrong,” Aly says. “And I think we have to get our heads round the fact that there might be something nice about ISIS that these people are attracted to.” Not that Aly thinks Islamic State is nice. “I am completely, completely opposed to it on theological grounds, on social grounds – it’s personal,” she adds, with sudden fierceness. “These people want my sons to go and fight and die for their political cause. You become like the dragon mum, protecting her young: ‘Stay away from my sons.’”

Aly describes herself as a “spiritual Muslim” rather than a devout one (the entire family, including David, visits the mosque once a year during ­Ramadan). But she insists she’s not defending Islam so much as pointing out that extreme ideology of any kind is a problem. She says the case of Perth doctor Tareq Kamleh, who went to join Islamic State in Syria, “poses questions I’ve been raising for a year now about how we define radicalisation as something that leads to violent acts. Kamleh went over there not to fight but as a doctor to save lives. You might not like the lives that he’s ­saving but that’s what he’s there doing. Is he radicalised? He’s indoctrinated to the extent that he believes there’s such a thing as the Islamic State, and that he has a duty to go over there and establish it.”

She says mental health problems have been underrated as a factor, too. “Breivik had grandiose delusions; Khaled ­Sharrouf, who held up the beheaded victims’ heads, had a history of paranoid schizophrenia.” Sydney siege gunman Man Haron Monis had a history of mental illness, “and it was only in the last few weeks that he started to latch on to the symbols of Islamic State.”

One of Aly’s most recent articles would have riled her opponents. “What if Numan Haider, Jake Bilardi and others like them,” she wrote, “were given the opportunity to become part of a global community of educated influencers dedicated to challenging violent extremism?”

That philosophy led to her latest venture and a second trip to the White House, this time with a group of Curtin students, to present an award-winning app called 52Jumaa (“52 Holy Fridays”), designed to inspire young people to altruistic acts, not violent ones.

But does any of it stop the recruitment of young jihadis? “Everybody asks and it’s hard to measure change,” says Aly. “Change is incremental and it often happens one-on-one between peers. The purpose is not to stop people going overseas. It’s to add another voice against Islamic State and, voice by voice, drop by drop, we ­create an ocean of opposition.”

Meanwhile, she’s grateful that Adam, a law graduate, and Karim, who studied communications, have reached adulthood. Sitting on the sofa next to David, Aly hints that even they were once vulnerable. “My boys were raised without a father figure. They went to ­Muslim schools, were raised in a ­Muslim household, they went through all the teenage angst of young men without father figures. If you were to forecast a vulnerability profile – which there isn’t – they’d qualify. I apologised to them that I didn’t provide them with male role models. They said to me, ‘We didn’t need one Mum, we had you.’ ”

As for her own vulnerability, is she ever tempted to adopt a lower profile? Both Aly and her husband erupt into laughter. “That’s impossible,” she responds, before leaning forward in a defiant pose. “Why should my right to speak, my expertise be marginalised just because I’m a woman, or because I’m Muslim? I have something important to contribute and I worked bloody hard to get to where I am. They’re messing with the wrong girl.”

"The West Australian posted:

MP ridiculed over 'Islamic' cover-up
Daniel Emerson
January 6, 2015, 3:57 pm



Federal Liberal MP Luke Simpkins has become the target of social media scorn after a high-level intervention to ensure ‘Islamic’ stickers were removed from the Leederville Train Station pedestrian overpass.

In a bizarre case of mistaken identity, the stickers were in fact spruiking a local nightclub – a fact lost on Mr Simpkins when he boasted on his Facebook page of having them painted over.

On November 5, Mr Simpkins wrote: “Last week I noticed black disks (sic) that appeared to be Shahada symbols. Thanks to the Transport Minister and his adviser for getting them painted over quickly after my call”.

The post included pictures taken from some distance of two “discs” displaying white cursive writing against a black background.

The Shahada, a declaration of Islamic faith which translates to “There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet” is commonly displayed written in white Arabic writing on a black background.

The Shahada flag was brandished by Sydney siege gunman Man Haron Monis last month in what Muslim leaders slammed as a desecration of the phrase.

It was not until this week that fans of Speakeasy, the bi-monthly Australian music showcase at Villa nightclub, noticed Mr Simpkins’ post and recognised the “discs” as Speakeasy stickers.

The MP’s Facebook page was yesterday bombarded with ridicule.

“Thanks for fighting the good fight in WA on all of Australia’s behalf. We really do need to crack down on ISIS promoting nightclubs in Australia,” wrote one user.

“Speakeasy is a Shahada symbol? Wow, You sir are a complete idiot,” posted another.

Pierce Ericson, event manager at Metric Promotions which runs Speakeasy, confirmed the images in Mr Simpkins’ post were Speakeasy stickers which had been in circulation two to three years ago. “We’ve been discussing this in the office this morning. The fact that (Mr Simpkins) felt the need to cover it up purely because it was ‘Islamic’ is bothering us a little bit,” he said.

Ikebal Patel, immediate past president of the Federation of Islamic Councils, said it was a “sad case” if Mr Simpkins wanted the stickers painted over because he thought they were Islamic, rather than merely graffiti.

“If in this case the federal member basically wanted them painted over because he thought they were the Shahada then it does make you wonder if we are getting too carried away by world events,” he said. “The Shahada itself is a very profound symbol and statement within Islam. Sure, people are abusing that right now for political gain and we all have issues with that.”

In a statement to thewest.com.au, Mr Simpkins said the images had been reported to him as containing Arabic writing but couldn’t get close enough to make sure.

“I later drove up the freeway and had my passenger take the photographs,” he said. “Obviously it is illegal to park on the freeway and reckless to hold a camera over the freeway. Therefore based on the photographs that looked like Arabic writing, I referred the matter to the minister’s office saying that there was vandalism and it appeared to be Arabic writing like the Shahada flag.”

Mr Simpkins said he was not familiar with bars, clubs and events in Leederville “and yet the social media abuse assumes I should have been”. “I am nevertheless glad that the vandalism has been cleaned up although it appears that others are not happy with that either,” he said.

A spokeswoman for Transport Minister Dean Nalder said any reports of vandalism on transport infrastructure he received were passed on to Main Roads WA for “swift action”. “Main Roads WA appropriately investigated and acted on the concern, concealing and then repainting the section of the bridge that was illegally defaced,” she said.

In 2011 Mr Simpkins warned Australians were unwittingly taking the first steps towards Islamic conversion by eating Halal meat.

Anidav posted:

The LNP are shitheads.txt



The Electoral Commission of Queensland has distanced itself from election campaign material sent by the Liberal National Party's Brisbane council campaign, which was sent out in envelopes similar to the ECQ's own corporate colours.
The material has appeared in multiple Brisbane City Council wards and contain ECQ postal vote forms, along with letters co-signed by Lord Mayor Graham Quirk and the local LNP candidate in that ward.
While it was usual practice for candidates to send postal vote forms to electors, the choice of envelope with a similar maroon hue to the ECQ's corporate material had prompted several complaints to the commission.

Anidav posted:

Why isn't it illegal lol. It's extremely dishonest.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

They contain a reply paid envelope that goes to the liberal party, ready to be filled with glitter.

turdbucket posted:

lmao the ALP knifing Shorten only to replace him with Bowen would be the end of the Labor party. RIP

Gorilla Salad posted:

Saw in passing the headline of the Age/Austraian today saying the LNP are looking forward to ignoring any public resolution on marriage equality.


The sweet tang of democracy.

V for Vegas posted:

But he has a beard now

turdbucket posted:

lmao the ALP unions knifing Shorten only to replace him with Bowen would be the end of the Labor party. RIP

V for Vegas posted:

But he has a beard now

quote:

Tony Abbott has urged policy makers to pass on “undamaged” the institution of traditional marriage to future generations.

The former prime minister told UN diplomats and officials in New York that policymakers should not be judgmental and there should be more respect in dealing with same-sex marriage, but the ­erosion of the traditional family could not be ignored.

“We shouldn’t try to change something without understanding it, without grasping why it is that one man and one woman open to children until just a very few years ago has always been considered the essence of marriage and the heart of family,’’ Mr Abbott said in a prepared speech.

Mr Abbott has demonstrated his intention to speak out in favour of conservative social policies only days after declaring he intends to continue in parliament beyond the next election.

His long-held position of support for traditional marriage and opposition to same-sex marriage is at odds with Malcolm Turnbull’s and signals a guaranteed ­internal Liberal Party debate on the issue as a plebiscite looms after the next election. The Prime Minister this week made it clear he supported the right of Mr ­Abbott and other conservative MPs to speak publicly on social issues such as same-sex marriage and the republic as well as his right to disagree.

One of the keys in Mr Abbott’s decision to remain in parliament, which some Liberals believe will cause a distraction for Mr Turnbull and divisions within the ­Liberal Party, was his desire to represent the conservative side of the party.

In a speech at the Alliance ­Defending Freedom, a conservative organisation promoting family values and religion, that was at times highly personal in front of an estimated audience of 150, Mr Abbott called for common sense and less ideology over same-sex marriage.

“Policymakers shouldn’t be judgmental about people’s personal choices but we can’t be indifferent to the erosion of family given its consequences for the wider community,” Mr Abbott said.

“It was my distinguished predecessor John Howard who pointed out that the traditional family was the best social welfare system that mankind has ever devised.”

Mr Abbott acknowledged the personal complexities and difficulties in the debate but defended the traditional family.

“These days, at least in Western countries, family structures are typically more complex than they used to be,” he said.

“Two of my sisters are divorced. One has a new partner. Another has a same-sex partner. To me, my sisters’ partners are first-class members of our extended family.

“The way they live shows their commitment to each other, even though there’s been no ceremony.

“In today’s world, we need less ideology and more common sense; we need less impatience and more respect; we need less shouting at people and more engagement with them.

“We shouldn’t try to change something without understanding it, without grasping why it is that one man and one woman open to children until just a very few years ago has always been considered the essence of marriage and the heart of family.

“We can’t shirk our responsibilities to the future; but let’s also respect and appreciate values and institutions that have stood the test of time and pass them on, undamaged, when that’s best. That’s a goal we should all be able to share.”

Last July, Australia opposed a motion passed at the UN that supported the traditional rights of family because it did not specifically refer to same-sex marriage and put the rights of family ahead of individual rights of the child.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop defended Australia’s opposition because of the lack of recognition of same-sex marriage in families.

BBJoey posted:

aren't the unions knifing the entire ALP in the back and supporting the greens?

open24hours posted:

quote:

In a speech at the Alliance ­Defending Freedom, a conservative organisation promoting family values and religion, that was at times highly personal in front of an estimated audience of 150, Mr Abbott called for common sense and less ideology over same-sex marriage.

V for Vegas posted:

But he has a beard now

Amethyst posted:

Anyway why's everyone talking about Bowen being leader? That seems like the only choice worse than ol' Bill.

Vladimir Poutine posted:

Tanya Plibersek has been the most preferred Labor leader basically the whole time Shorten has been leader. I don't know why people constantly talk about Albo instead. Is it because they don't think the Australian public would vote for a woman?


I don't know if they're basing this on anything or not, but replacing Shorten with some incredibly bland but factionally powerful vacuous windsock is exactly something that Labor Right/NSW Labor would do.

Amethyst posted:

Anyway why's everyone talking about Bowen being leader? That seems like the only choice worse than ol' Bill.

gay picnic defence posted:

It's probably Bowen or someone linked to him leaking to the press and putting his name out there as a contender.

The only way the ALP can come out of this and still win the election is if Shorten steps down I reckon, if he gets knifed the Libs will sing about how the ALP haven't changed and won't ever change all the way to election day. Pointing out that Abbott was knifed too won't work because people are actually happy with that.

Amethyst posted:

They seem to think it's too late for this election, and honestly they're probably correct. Let Shorten be night watchmen for an unwinnable election then have a real go at the next one.