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Uh, was that dubstep in the trailer for next week?
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Jan 29, 2016 02:45
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tsob posted:The rules of time travel in Flash are pretty loose by the looks of things. Barry cannot change anything to do with his mother's death since it's a fixed point, but he can run back in time by a few days to get as many do-overs as he wants for anything particularly tricky no matter how big or important it should be. You'd imagine the complete destruction of an entire city would be a rather important thing to a time line for instance, and yet Barry has undone that twice now. He's a save-scumming bastard. I'd love to see an episode that has Barry fighting the Reverse Flash where everyone time one of them wins in some manner, the other just runs back in time by a few hours and has a mulligan on the fight so that they win instead. It's not about the size of the event, just the distance.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:54
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I really wish they'd gone for "you can't foresee all the consequences of meddling" rather than "time actively hates you."
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Jan 29, 2016 02:57
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Aphrodite posted:It's not about the size of the event, just the distance. If bigger distances made it harder to change or even permanent beyond a certain point (~20 years in the case of Barry's mom) then Legends of Tomorrow wouldn't work at all and Reverse Flash's entire story would be a lot harder to explain since he shouldn't have been able to go back in time and become the Flash's enemy at all if that was true.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:01
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Different rules for different people. Barry seems currently limited to the near present.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:07
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Thawne ceased to exist in May 2015 when Eddie shot himself, but he had to still exist up until that point in order to influence the events that led to Eddie shooting himself; everyone, including Doctor McGee, still has to remember everything he's done to influence the "present." The only portion of his timeline that got "erased from existence" is the portion that isn't necessary anymore, see? Eobard's timeline up until that point had to remain intact, but his continuing timeline does not. It's more or less the same with Cisco this week. I've described it this way before, but it's basically the universe picking the least impossible solution to solve an impossible paradox.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:12
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Time travel is a terrible thing that never makes any sense and opens a million plot holes. It should surprise no one that the Flash is no exception to the rule.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:25
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BrianWilly posted:Thawne ceased to exist in May 2015 when Eddie shot himself, but he had to still exist up until that point in order to influence the events that led to Eddie shooting himself; everyone, including Doctor McGee, still has to remember everything he's done to influence the "present." The only portion of his timeline that got "erased from existence" is the portion that isn't necessary anymore, see? Eobard's timeline up until that point had to remain intact, but his continuing timeline does not. It's more or less the same with Cisco this week. Yes, this is a good way to put it. Thawne still has to exist up to the moment he ceased to exist, and that includes stretches of time that have occurred later than the moment he ceased to exist, since he's a time traveler from the future. Here's a lovely graphic I created. Obvious not to scale, and may be missing events: 
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Jan 29, 2016 03:45
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Time travel actually makes more sense than the logic they used for why Patty and Barry can't be together anymore.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:45
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Blaze Dragon posted:Time travel is a terrible thing that never makes any sense and opens a million plot holes. Definitely. Time travel mechanics are literally always nonsense and have no choice but to be. But deconstructing time travel mechanics remains fun and awesome. I assume time travel and "interdimensional" travel are basically the same thing on this show, though. Earth-1 and Earth-2 are just branched decision trees, right? It's chaos theory...E-1 and E-2 differ because trillions and trillions of initial conditions happened to evolve divergently, and the Present reflects it. In one version, a bunch of poo poo happened that created a vaguely Art Deco Golden Age 2016, and in another, Barry Allen is the Flash and CC Jitters rules the earth. You'd think every millisecond, countless new "alternate Earths" are being formed because the sum total of possible outcomes is infinitely high, but the de facto way any singular reality unfolds is finite. Dead-Mom Barry and Live-Mom Barry are two concrete examples. There's a reality where Thawne killed Cisco and the city was decimated by a Tsunami, and there's one where neither happened. But wouldn't "Dead Cisco / Tsunami Disaster" Earth still exist out there, as Earth-675 or something? Wouldn't a "paradox" merely be another split-timeline event? (The answer is No. Because Speed Force.)
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Jan 29, 2016 03:59
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Xealot posted:I assume time travel and "interdimensional" travel are basically the same thing on this show, though. I assume the exact opposite. There are parallel universes and you can travel between them, but you can also travel through time within any universe and alter its timeline (which would also alter other universes' timelines if they've ever interacted). For example, if Barry hadn't prevented the tsunami from wiping out the city in Earth 1 then there would have been no portal to Earth 2 and Zoom would have killed Jay. There is no reality where everything happened the same up to the point of the tsunami and then Barry failed and everyone died. That just didn't happen.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:24
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Blaze Dragon posted:Time travel is a terrible thing that never makes any sense and opens a million plot holes. I would have agreed 100%, and actually brought up the same point in the season one thread the second they introduced it, if not for having watched 12 Monkeys season one. They do time travel the right way in that show.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:30
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It just doesn't make sense that when Barry travels to the past he replaces himself in the timeline.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:35
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X-O posted:I would have agreed 100%, and actually brought up the same point in the season one thread the second they introduced it, if not for having watched 12 Monkeys season one. They do time travel the right way in that show. 12 Monkeys? Heh. It's good, but... the best and most accurate depiction of time travel happens in the movie Primer (2004). It will blow your mind, in a good way.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:36
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The only movie where the time travel makes perfect sense is Time Crimes and that's because it is so limited.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:38
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gently caress you Iris. Give me Patty.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:39
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Imagine 4 Eobards on the edge of a cliff.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:39
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Xtanstic posted:gently caress you Iris. Give me Patty. Xtanstic posted:gently caress you Iris. Give me Patty. Xtanstic posted:gently caress you Iris. Give me Patty.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:47
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Rhyno posted:It just doesn't make sense that when Barry travels to the past he replaces himself in the timeline. Come on you know this one. Speed...
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Jan 29, 2016 05:06
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Aphrodite posted:Come on you know this one. God drat it.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:08
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DoctorWhat posted:My understanding is that Thawne is a Time Paradox Duplicate, a byproduct of a cauterized timeline. My understanding is gently caress you Hypertime now shut up nerds 
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Jan 29, 2016 05:26
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Seriously, Hypertime was the greatest invention in the history of comic books because it was literally "just do what the gently caress ever, it's alllllllll perfectly legal.  "
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Jan 29, 2016 05:26
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Aphrodite posted:Come on you know this one. 
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Jan 29, 2016 05:29
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It's... it's beautiful 
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Jan 29, 2016 05:30
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Can someone please quote my lovely mspaint? I spent like 15 minutes on it.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:43
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Nice
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Jan 29, 2016 05:48
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Ugh. That was not a good episode. At all. The "Slade returns to Arrow" episode last year was stronger than this logical trainwreck of an hour. I literally had no loving idea why Cisco was the only one rupturing. Was it because of the glasses or because he gloated like an idiot to Thawne? The whole thing felt rushed as hell. And what the poo poo was with Joe's monologue condoning Barry to a life of solitude? The whole "I can't tell people my secret" would play better if it wasn't for the fact that he already puts Joe, Iris, Cisco, and Caitlyn in jeopardy every day. I almost think that having Patty leave last episode would have been better than having her come back and reinforce just how worthlessly the show tossed their relationship.
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Jan 29, 2016 08:54
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BrianWilly posted:Thawne ceased to exist in May 2015 when Eddie shot himself, but he had to still exist up until that point in order to influence the events that led to Eddie shooting himself; everyone, including Doctor McGee, still has to remember everything he's done to influence the "present." The only portion of his timeline that got "erased from existence" is the portion that isn't necessary anymore, see? Eobard's timeline up until that point had to remain intact, but his continuing timeline does not. It's more or less the same with Cisco this week. Sure, I mean, Eddie kills himself and Thawne ceases to exist, but Barry's mum is still dead because Thawne went back and murdered her, right?
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Jan 29, 2016 10:14
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Narcissus1916 posted:I almost think that having Patty leave last episode would have been better than having her come back and reinforce just how worthlessly the show tossed their relationship. Yeah I'm surprised some people thought the train scene redeemed some of that stuff, I thought it just made things way worse. "Oh you faked a terrorist attack just to confirm the fact that I've been lying to you this whole time and lied to your face like 5 hours ago when we said goodbye but hey I guess now you know for sure even though you already did. Don't worry though you're totally not in danger now that you know who I am even though that's the reason we broke up even though I was going to tell you at some point. It's a shame we definitely can't still be together because even though I can run across the country in 30 seconds a long distance relationship is just impossible for me anyway you seem like you'll be fine and not scarred for life after this insanely cruel betrayal of trust ok byyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeee..." I hate how short-sighted the writers are when it comes to Barry's character. We're like a season and a half into this show and he's already had 4 love interests, each of which basically got resolved the same dumb way. Do the writers not realize they're kind of turning him into a sociopath who's now hurt multiple women for a reason that they already established is stupid and nonsensical with Iris? I mean I don't even mind the dumb melodrama but good lord at least come up with something new.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:14
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Xtanstic posted:gently caress you Iris. Give me Linda. Ftfy As an aside, it was satisfying to see Barry properly throw another speedster a beating
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Jan 29, 2016 13:09
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This is amazing, and pretty much sums up my feelings about the Speed Force and how "handwavy" it can be
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Jan 29, 2016 14:35
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Narcissus1916 posted:I literally had no loving idea why Cisco was the only one rupturing. Was it because of the glasses or because he gloated like an idiot to Thawne? His power is that he is in tune with changes in the timeline/dimensional fabric or whatever. Point is that he is more sensitive to the timeline loving up, it was like major sensory overload. Other poo poo would have eventually started messing up, he was just like the canary in the coal mine.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:52
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Oh, dear. I've just had a thought. What if instead of introducing Hunter Zolomon so he can be the true identity of Zoom (or whatever), they're introducing him so he can be the main villain in season three?
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Jan 29, 2016 15:11
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Wheat Loaf posted:Oh, dear. I've just had a thought. If this show is going to continue the pattern of having an evil speedster as the main villain, I hope they just go all out with it and next season there are about two dozen of them, some good, some bad, some just using their powers to have fun. Like, every scene should have a speedster go by in the background, sometimes being chased by a different speedster. Some girl's complaining to Barry about him being distant and secretive and he's making his excuses and both of them are ignoring the fact that seven different coloured blurs just went by behind them.
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Jan 29, 2016 15:34
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Tiggum posted:If this show is going to continue the pattern of having an evil speedster as the main villain, I hope they just go all out with it and next season there are about two dozen of them, some good, some bad, some just using their powers to have fun. Like, every scene should have a speedster go by in the background, sometimes being chased by a different speedster. Some girl's complaining to Barry about him being distant and secretive and he's making his excuses and both of them are ignoring the fact that seven different coloured blurs just went by behind them. And they go "gently caress it" and bring in Evan Peters AND Aaron Taylor-Johnson as not-Quicksilver
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Jan 29, 2016 17:43
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Tiggum posted:If this show is going to continue the pattern of having an evil speedster as the main villain, I hope they just go all out with it and next season there are about two dozen of them, some good, some bad, some just using their powers to have fun. Like, every scene should have a speedster go by in the background, sometimes being chased by a different speedster. Some girl's complaining to Barry about him being distant and secretive and he's making his excuses and both of them are ignoring the fact that seven different coloured blurs just went by behind them. So they've already introduced Velocity 6 as a super speed drug; in the comics there were several different groups working on super speed serums kind of around the same time. (spoilers for old comics, they probably won't use these exact storylines anyway) Two Russian scientists ended up creating two separate teams of 3 speedsters each: one good, one bad (they were kids when they were experimented on and were loyal to the Soviet army) who helped and fought Wally in his early run. A S.T.A.R. labs scientist named Jerry McGee was also working on a steroid which similarly gave him super speed, but in a sort've Jekyll and Hyde way, where he had a monstrous persona that had super speed and was super violent. Then Vandal Savage also created a drug called Velocity 9 which created a bunch of super fast drug addicts who eventually would burn out and die. So all of these various drugs/formulas were either temporary or addictive or had terrible side effects or basically ate away at the users' bodies. So in addition to just Jay and Wally there is the potential there for having a variety speedsters, not even necessarily ones with permanent powers.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:09
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Wheat Loaf posted:Oh, dear. I've just had a thought.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:30
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And I guess since he would be Joe's partner he needs to dates one of his kids, in this case Wally.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:42
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Guy A. Person posted:he was just like the canary in the coal mine. Yet another Canary better than Laurel.
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Jan 30, 2016 04:47
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jscolon2.0 posted:Yet another Canary better than Laurel. wanna empty quote this so bad. Each week I'm hoping it's the week that character dies
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Jan 30, 2016 05:04
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