|
Unimpressed posted:Sif Muna, the toilet reading material goddess. Can anyone provide a compelling reason to worship her? Your a mummy and want to channel infinite magic so you can abuse constant spell spam in extended.
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:43 |
|
|
You're a spellcaster who expects to find very few spellbooks over the course of the game?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:22
|
|
|
Well, I'm no caster expert, but I've reached mid level around 15 times with one and I don't see the big benefit from the extra books. By time you clear elf you've access to most spells required for the various strategies you need. I just think vehumet is so much more compelling that I can't think of when I would decide to go Sif unless I was doing it for its own sake. I'm very happy to admit I'm wrong on this, as I said I've very little experience with casters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
Easy access towards hybridizing and channelling. That's about it for Sif. They are a god of few words. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Unimpressed posted:Sif Muna, the toilet reading material goddess. Can anyone provide a compelling reason to worship her? Gammafunk sings the praises of Sif Muna a lot, usually doing speed(ish) runs with elf or mummy summoners. For a summoner who's diving quickly and relying entirely on minions for kills and staying out of sight, I can see how more MP from channeling and books is helpful, getting bigger summons online quicker, and the piety for magic training conduct is less onerous. I think the god is pretty mediocre, or at least vastly outshone by others for the majority of characters. Sage Grimm posted:Easy access towards hybridizing and channelling. That's about it for Sif. They are a god of few words. I don't know how Sif Muna is helpful for hybridizing. Opposite in fact, I'd say. You can't worship her without spells, so melee classes can't get into her easily, or get piety. Magic classes on the other hand have to go deeper into their magic schools to get benefit from her, which conflicts with getting weapon skills or defenses improved. Dee Ehm fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jan 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:36
|
|
|
Dee Ehm posted:Gammafunk sings the praises of Sif Muna a lot, usually doing speed(ish) runs with elf or mummy summoners. For a summoner who's diving quickly and relying entirely on minions for kills and staying out of sight, I can see how more MP from channeling and books is helpful, getting bigger summons online quicker, and the piety for magic training conduct is less onerous. Sif is extremely good for summoners generally, not just speedrunners - toss out your pals, channel while they fight and then summon more as needed. I honestly can't think of any other better god for a 'pure' summoning playstyle. Agreed wrt. hybridization, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:53
|
|
|
Ely is to a god of heal wounds as Sif is to a god of channeling. Both are very boring, but strong abilities. Unfortunately, boring isn't fun, which is why other gods (like Qazlal) are way more entertaining to worship (even if Qazlal is also much more likely to kill you due to his downsides).
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2016 23:57
|
|
|
Bad idea of the day: let Sif Munites buy intrinsic (until excommunication) ranks of wild or placid magic in exchange for a substantial chunk of piety. "Sif Muna will now focus or amplify your spellcasting."
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
actually, I hear Ely is cool now
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
My sif muna idea is put a couple of OP spells in the game that only show up in randart sif books. Only show up like with like 1/20th the normal weight. Each one is a cross-schooled spell of something and sif muna piety.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
I had a character find the pandemonium disco floor and it was awesome. My only complaint is I couldn't loot the disco ball and evoke it to turn everywhere into a rainbow disco party
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
resistentialism posted:My sif muna idea is put a couple of OP spells in the game that only show up in randart sif books. Only show up like with like 1/20th the normal weight. Each one is a cross-schooled spell of something and sif muna piety. FR: Sif Muna can generate books with removed spells.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
I still like the idea of having Sif let you force your spell to work even if you miscast, either as a passive or invoked effect. It'd make them more appealing to hybrids while still keeping a caster focus, so people other than summoners might consider worship.PleasingFungus posted:actually, I hear Ely is cool now Now that her piety is all from exploration, is there much reason to try pacifying enemies? I guess there are some enemies (hydras etc) where it can eliminate them reasonably, but a really temperamental & situational banish (two of them at different powers, to make things more fiddly!) that doesn't even provide piety seems pretty lame. -Spoken as someone who has barely ever worshipped Ely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
Floodkiller posted:FR: Sif Muna can generate books with removed spells. Finally, I can relive the
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 02:17
|
|
|
Darox posted:Now that her piety is all from exploration, is there much reason to try pacifying enemies? I guess there are some enemies (hydras etc) where it can eliminate them reasonably, but a really temperamental & situational banish (two of them at different powers, to make things more fiddly!) that doesn't even provide piety seems pretty lame. code:
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 02:23
|
|
|
During the last tournament I 15 runed a TeFi using Ely till hells/pan/tomb where I switched over to TSO. Never did bother with Pacifying, only really used was Greater Healing and Divine Vigor but it did seem to be a fairly easy game with an easy switch to post game. Boring but effective is the best I can give Ely I guess.
World Famous W fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jan 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 02:49
|
|
|
Dee Ehm posted:I don't know how Sif Muna is helpful for hybridizing. Opposite in fact, I'd say. You can't worship her without spells, so melee classes can't get into her easily, or get piety. Magic classes on the other hand have to go deeper into their magic schools to get benefit from her, which conflicts with getting weapon skills or defenses improved. The classic hybrid is Ice Elementalist, the starting book giving you enough of a mixture between damage and buff spells that you don't have to go down the usual route of Conjurations. You can dribble your experience into Ice or Charms or Summons while working on your weapon skills to maintain piety or slowly increase it. The same can be done with Transmuter, though their starter book basically can do a 3-rune by itself. Or even further, Enchanter and Skald. Note that all specified classes do start with a book, but you could potentially do the same on Gladiator, Assassin or Monk if you find an early book on the ground. Mind, I wouldn't turn down fantastic spells only obtainable by rare books from Sif's library as previous posters suggested.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
Quote is not edit
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
Sage Grimm posted:The classic hybrid is Ice Elementalist, the starting book giving you enough of a mixture between damage and buff spells that you don't have to go down the usual route of Conjurations. You can dribble your experience into Ice or Charms or Summons while working on your weapon skills to maintain piety or slowly increase it. The same can be done with Transmuter, though their starter book basically can do a 3-rune by itself. Or even further, Enchanter and Skald. Note that all specified classes do start with a book, but you could potentially do the same on Gladiator, Assassin or Monk if you find an early book on the ground. Sif is great for summoners because they are able to make very good use of channeling and don't really benefit from most other gods. Outside of that Sif is pretty lacklustre.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 03:39
|
|
|
Just gonna quote what I said about Sif however many pages ago;Internet Kraken posted:Sif isn't very good due to her awful early game. She needs some kind of boost to her early game to make her a more appealing option. My idea would be to drop her whole "you need to know spells to join up" schtick. Instead, have joining her grant you a randart book of various low level spells right away. This gives melee characters wanting to go hybrid a reason to pick her. It also allows a caster to diversify earlier. Getting even one good spell from a starting book would make joining her way more appealing. Internet Kraken posted:Idea for a Sif Muna ability; Force Cast. I really don't think boosting her early game would unbalance her. Its not like other gods aren't just as strong for certain characters as she can be in extended.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 03:42
|
|
|
The problem with just buffing Sif Muna or giving her additional active abilities is that she is already good for the characters built for her... but even though she gives a broad improvement to spellcasting in general, only a narrow group of dedicated spellcasters really benefit from her as much. I think that Sif Muna doesn't need to be even better at what she's already doing more than she just needs to be more welcoming to other playstyles. What Internet Kraken said about a gift of randart low-level spells to new followers is one idea, another would be changing the way her piety works. You need to train magic schools to start getting piety in the first place, then you get the ability to channel magic at first *. But that requires invocations to work to any level at all, so you're having to divert more experience from what gives you piety if you want to use it. Amnesia as her ** is pretty much meaningless for most characters at the point you get it. Assuming you picked Sif up in Temple, you probably don't have a single spell yet that you want to replace when you get this ability, especially since book gifts don't start coming in until ******! By that point Kiku has already given me two randart books and I can request Necronomicon, and Vehumet has given me a bunch of spells and a choice of big blasting magic. Not only that, I've been training magic this whole time to only now start actually getting spells! Moving amnesia to higher piety levels and letting her gift spellbooks (even ones that are stripped down compared to her regular gifts) along with making piety based on exploration or something would go a long way toward making her an appealing choice to more characters. Edit: Even just letting her gift books earlier / a starting book would be enough to make her more appealing. It strikes me as really backwards that she requires the player to train heavily in magic up to full piety, and only then does she actually start giving spellbooks that you might want to train in new spell schools for. Dee Ehm fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 04:26
|
|
|
Dee Ehm posted:The problem with just buffing Sif Muna or giving her additional active abilities is that she is already good for the characters built for her... but even though she gives a broad improvement to spellcasting in general, only a narrow group of dedicated spellcasters really benefit from her as much. I would be more for the simpler fix of just making the piety not based on training magic schools, and just make it exploration based. If the magic school training needs to be kept, maybe tie it to the book gifts?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 04:39
|
|
|
Some wand removals. According to the commit, it's... both cold-flavored wands, fire (but not flame or fireball, just the bolt one), magic darts, and invisibility.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
Not exactly a good change given wands of cold and fire were useful finds in the early game, especially against hydras. With an evocations build wands of cold continued to be good even in extended where you could reliably kill hellions and tormentors with them. EDIT: I dunno why I thought a demonspawn with rot immunity couldn't decompose in necro form. I'm still disappointed though. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 05:56
|
|
|
Maybe Channeling could be changed to work from Spellcasting rather than Invocations? That way you're not splitting XP between spell schools (needed for piety) and invocations (just for channeling). Might be too strong though. I also like the idea of a low-level intro book at one or two stars. Kinda like Pakellas giving a starter wand or Kiku giving a starter Necro book.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 06:01
|
|
|
Wonder why they decided to remove wands of cold/fire? Those were incredibly useful midgame, even with no evocations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 06:38
|
|
|
ZeeToo posted:Some wand removals. According to the commit, it's... both cold-flavored wands, fire (but not flame or fireball, just the bolt one), magic darts, and invisibility.  Looks like the only damage wand I'm ever using is draining!
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 06:43
|
|
|
 what on earth is the reasoning behind removing wands of cold/fire??e: ahaha it's literally "these wands have been around since the beginning and people hoard them sometimes, resulting in inventory clutter." Yeah, people pick them up and carry them around because... they're good wands??? Better fix that I guess  There's still draining, fireball, and lightning, but this is just a drat weird decision imo. It also kills some great tactics like wand of cold/fire making clouds over water, or tunneling through flame clouds by zapping a wand of frost into them. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 07:00
|
|
|
Dee Ehm posted:Opposite in fact, I'd say. You can't worship her without spells,
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 07:59
|
|
|
Angry Diplomat posted:
Honestly I feel like fire was straight up better than fireball in most situations. With a wand of fire/cold you could at least snipe a summoner (orc high priest, elf demonologist, whatever) from behind a wall of lovely summoned stuff, but a fireball doesn't work for that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 08:37
|
|
|
Fireball is a great wand, for me to drop on the ground and turn off autopickup every time I find it the only damage wands that exist are fire/cold/draining. lightning is poo poo, fireball is poo poo, the puny little ones are poo poo. now the only real damage wand is draining
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 08:41
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure the only thing I've used a wand of fireball to kill past the early game is boggarts. Lightning I only ever used if I had no better options because its seriously garbage with how much it misses, even when you set up bank shots with it. Finding a fire/cold wand was great because it gave you a nice way to deal with hydras, whom have way too high MR for you to effectively use wands of confusion/paralysis against. I guess the devs thought the early game of Crawl wasn't hard enough though. Thank god they kept wands of flame though. Definitely needed to keep these pathetic puffs of fire that can't even kill an orc priest.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 08:45
|
|
|
This seems like an odd choice given the new god based around wands. I personally didn't mind stashes, and this is going to make hydras a real pain. Ahh well. At least one wand for cold vulnerability would be nice. Matlock Birthmark fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Jan 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 08:50
|
|
|
Matlock Birthmark posted:This seems like an odd choice given the new god based around wands. I personally didn't mind stashes, and this is going to make hydras a real pain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 08:53
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:I don't see how this has to do with stashes, I've always carried around the decent damage wands and I haven't felt driven to make a stash in crawl in literally years Probably more force of habit for me to be honest.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 08:57
|
|
|
ZeeToo posted:Some wand removals. According to the commit, it's... both cold-flavored wands, fire (but not flame or fireball, just the bolt one), magic darts, and invisibility. PleasingFungus, why must you disappoint us so?  I mean, I agree that the sheer amount and variety of wands is a bit excessive, and I couldn't give a gently caress about flame/frost/magic darts and to a lesser degree invisibility, but why remove the wands that actually get used? Fire and cold are goddamn life-savers against early-game nasties when you lack spells or weapons to murder them semi-safely - so what if their usefulness fall off later in the game? Why make the early game harder to compensate for mere clutter? Side note; have they managed to unfuck the amulet/mutation situation yet? II'm still on 0.17 until that's done.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 09:15
|
|
|
I normally embrace, but these latest changes have all been awful. Removing fire/cold wands? Why the hell would you do that, because those are the only offensive wands worth a drat? And the mutation poo poo... This is literally the first time I'm intentionally avoiding trunk and that makes me sad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 11:03
|
|
|
Well, there goes one more source of evocable invisibility along with the rings. Also there goes reliable hydra killers on top to. What the hell kind of change is this? I protest!
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 11:11
|
|
|
What new evokables have been added that suddenly tipped the balance and make everything "too cluttered"? Removing darts/frost makes the early game easier because only enemies use that poo poo, removing fire/cold makes the game harder because you have less options for OOD nasties. I guess the curve has been flattened and made everything less interesting. A buff to tab. Internet Kraken posted:Thank god they kept wands of flame though. Definitely needed to keep these pathetic puffs of fire that can't even kill an orc priest. They can kill electric eels, entirely thanks to steam clouds. Aside from that they are useless though. No wait, I guess it is a nerf to mummies, since it will appear in goblin hands instead of frost.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:43 |
|
|
Sif Muna offers the strongest on-demand channeling in the game. It's at least good enough to get you through a single ziggurat. I guess an Azhenzari worshiper with Wucad Mu outpaces her, but is taking periodic int drain for their trouble.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2016 14:25
|
|
