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Noam Chomsky posted:You realize our heroes win in the end because they embrace Galaxy Quest as an idea and make it a reality. It's only their devotion to a fictional work that ends up saving them. Our Galaxy Quest stars are all disinterested schmucks and idiots with dying careers but the fans believe in them and in turn they believe in themselves in the end. The first two acts are all about the heroes trying to make the fiction a reality, and how they struggle to achieve that. Allen doesn't actually know how to conduct a negotiation, Weaver can't shut off the comms, Mitchell can't fly the ship, Rickman can't eat his ticks or hear his catchphrase spoken. They crash through a minefield, blow the engines, open a shuttle without checking the air and get captured by aliens - twice. It's only after they give up and admit to Mathasar that they lied that things go their way. They turn the tables on Sarris when, as actors, they stage a fight to distract the guards. Sarris is defeated when he metaphorically stumbles into GalaxyQuest-as-fiction and gets taken out as a crowd-pleasing convention stunt - then they all take an actor's bow together. The final ending for the heroes isn't to become the mask - to carry on as Taggart, Lazarus, etc., to make the fiction a reality - but to go back to being actors, complete with a new set of title cards showing how actor-like they are. They have a healthier relationship with the show because they stop thinking of it as 'true' or 'false', not because the fans believe in them (what does this mean?) and so they believe in themselves (they believe they really are Quincy Taggart?). You smug prick.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:26
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Tender Bender posted:No one is saying sequels and continuity are dumb, they're saying that they're totally optional and if a story comes out that says "this ignores those other books people already wrote" the reasonable response is to say "okay" and move on in your life. At least one person called the concept of continuity a cancer. quote:The final ending for the heroes isn't to become the mask - to carry on as Taggart, Lazarus, etc., to make the fiction a reality - but to go back to being actors, complete with a new set of title cards showing how actor-like they are. They have a healthier relationship with the show because they stop thinking of it as 'true' or 'false', not because the fans believe in them (what does this mean?) and so they believe in themselves (they believe they really are Quincy Taggart?). I forget, what do the aliens who leave Earth do in the ending? I know the one stays behind to bang Mr. Monk. 
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Jan 29, 2016 16:31
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Tender Bender posted:No one is saying sequels and continuity are dumb, they're saying that they're totally optional and if a story comes out that says "this ignores those other books people already wrote" the reasonable response is to say "okay" and move on in your life. Seems to only be said when people are criticizing something within the turbo-nerd sphere. It's in the same trash bin as sports megafans calling star wars or star trek fans nerds in a derogatory way. It contributes nothing to any discussion, ever. Its only intent is to make people feel bad for liking something enough to comment on it or care about what they like and don't like. It is to say "this is not important enough for discussion;" the other half of the statement is "move out of your mom's basement, neckbeard." The underlying assumption being that if you care about any of this you are stalled somewhere in your life, rather than caring about this particular nerdy thing in addition to other things in your life. There are some people who, out of their devotion to fictional works, are not devoted enough to what wider society would consider productive, "adult" endeavors but most people who are fans of a particular genre or fictional universe are not these people. We tend to fetishize "adulthood" and productivity and it's interesting to see nerds in online comedy forums and other areas of discussion try to, over time, develop some nerd pecking order where a group raises their hands and screams "I like the correct and proper things! And I attribute the correct amount of concern to them!" and then tries to pick out the man-children to establish their non-man-child cred. As I said, if you are concerned with how people spend their time and how much they care about things that are not real, to the extent that you admonish those who enjoy some consistency in their escapism, then get off of this obscure comedy forum and go do something productive and real to which you claim to attribute more importance. In short, move on with your life. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 16:40
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RBA Starblade posted:I forget, what do the aliens who leave Earth do in the ending? I know the one stays behind to bang Mr. Monk. If I recall, you see them finally being the bridge crew of the Protector-II and just going off in to space. Presumably to do Real Galaxy Quest Stuff.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:40
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Raxivace posted:I'd be curious to hear what this evidence is, and if any of it comes through in A New Hope. "I knew Vader was Lukes father when ANH was being made" George Lucas. Many times.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:41
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euphronius posted:"I knew Vader was Lukes father when ANH was being made" George Lucas. Many times. Contemporary sources would probably be better. Lucas is rather fond of revising his own statements (see: every time he was asked how many movies he was gonna make)
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Jan 29, 2016 16:44
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RBA Starblade posted:At least one person called the concept of continuity a cancer. I said it was tumorous, if that's what we're talking about. I wasn't being (entirely) pejorative.. The infinite plots to steal Death Star plans are a good example of this, as is how every incidental character has its own side-story. quote:I forget, what do the aliens who leave Earth do in the ending? I know the one stays behind to bang Mr. Monk. Mathasar becomes the commander and they go off into space. He thinks everyone being an actor was just a lie, but by the end he's stopped waiting for the canonical Commander Taggart to save the day and starts saving it himself (like beating up Sarris).
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Jan 29, 2016 16:46
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Lt. Danger posted:e: like, you can be Mathasar all you want, but that means being the butt of the thread
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Jan 29, 2016 16:48
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jivjov posted:Contemporary sources would probably be better. Lucas is rather fond of revising his own statements (see: every time he was asked how many movies he was gonna make) jivjov posted:Contemporary sources would probably be better. Lucas is rather fond of revising his own statements (see: every time he was asked how many movies he was gonna make) If you don't think Lucas is credible no evidence will convince you.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:49
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Noam Chomsky posted:Seems to only be said when people are criticizing something within the turbo-nerd sphere. It's in the same trash bin as sports megafans calling star wars or star trek fans nerds in a derogatory way. It contributes nothing to any discussion, ever. Its only intent is to make people feel bad for liking something enough to comment on it or care about what they like and don't like. It is to say "this is not important enough for discussion;" the other half of the statement is "move out of your mom's basement, neckbeard." The underlying assumption being that if you care about any of this you are stalled somewhere in your life, rather than caring about this particular nerdy thing in addition to other things in your life. What I meant was either read the book or don't but don't get hung up on the structure of star wars canon, but ok man 
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Jan 29, 2016 16:49
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Tender Bender posted:No one is saying sequels and continuity are dumb, they're saying that they're totally optional and if a story comes out that says "this ignores those other books people already wrote" the reasonable response is to say "okay" and move on in your life. people do do this, and it's made even easier by the companies who--more than any other--deal in "continuity and canon": the comic book companies Marvel and DC have their own monikers for books that are avenues for creative expressions of the characters that exist free from the confines of "canon": 'What-If' and 'Elsehwere', respectively and, conveniently, so does Star Wars! star wars things that disney wants to not be "canon" are just "legends" now, and there are cool and good legends stories if people don't like to think about or talk about what is and isn't canon in star wars then simply don't! I would reckon a huge huge percentage of the people sperging about people sperging about canon don't like the prequels so they summarily ignore those--so just extend that same courtesy to discussions of canon and just kinda chill out
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Jan 29, 2016 16:50
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But sure lets find a press clipping from 1975 where Lucas spoils a movie he doesn't even think is going to be made 5 years in the future.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:50
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This is the movies thread though. Ignoring the movies to talk about low quality pulp novels seems strange when there is an entire thread also dedicated to that in the books forum.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:52
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Lt. Danger posted:
Oh that's right, because I posted about book chapters. For the record, I agree that the EU is terrible bullshit and couldn't care less about it. Canon only matters to me because I like to know if X happened in Y or in Z, since it can impact the story in different ways. Y and Z (and maybe W who knows) are their own things you can enjoy and appreciate separately. Continuity is important, though, especially continuity within a work. quote:Mathasar becomes the commander and they go off into space. He thinks everyone being an actor was just a lie, but by the end he's stopped waiting for the canonical Commander Taggart to save the day and starts saving it himself (like beating up Sarris). quote:If I recall, you see them finally being the bridge crew of the Protector-II and just going off in to space. Presumably to do Real Galaxy Quest Stuff. Thanks, been a while since I've watched it and couldn't remember what they do. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 16:54
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As I recall, the conversation began in response to the idea of people getting literally mad about movies contradicting RPG sourcebooks. That attitude is the enemy, not the attitude of enjoying the shared universe premise of writing fiction.
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Jan 29, 2016 16:56
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euphronius posted:If you don't think Lucas is credible no evidence will convince you. I think you've misunderstood jivjov here - Unless my memory is failing me, he was making the argument earlier that Lucas *did* have it planned. He is simply pointing out that Lucas saying as much after the fact isn't great evidence. Because Lucas has contradicted himself over the years (or at least, statements attributed to him have).
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Jan 29, 2016 16:56
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Slugworth posted:I think you've misunderstood jivjov here - Unless my memory is failing me, he was making the argument earlier that Lucas *did* have it planned. He is simply pointing out that Lucas saying as much after the fact isn't great evidence. Because Lucas has contradicted himself over the years (or at least, statements attributed to him have). No I understood that. If you don't think he's credible on the issue then it doesn't matter what he says. It's a very credible statement though. He has no motive to lie and he would know the best. And nothing contradicts it. I don't even care that much but goons going off on their radical skeptic tirades angers me sometimes.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:01
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Bongo Bill posted:As I recall, the conversation began in response to the idea of people getting literally mad about movies contradicting RPG sourcebooks. That attitude is the enemy, not the attitude of enjoying the shared universe premise of writing fiction. Someone made a joke about the prequels not being canon. Another poster said that canon is a dumb concept anyways. Enter: Jivjov.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:03
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Begun, the canon wars have.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:04
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euphronius posted:No I understood that.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:07
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Tender Bender posted:What I meant was either read the book or don't but don't get hung up on the structure of star wars canon, but ok man I can agree with that. Pretty much all, maybe all, Star Wars books are garbage. I just see so much "lol nerds are dumb and caring about anything that isn't real is dumb" nonsense on SA that I'm a little defensive about it. I have my own qualms with people who have a slavish devotion to cannon and consistency and such, to the detriment of creating new and interesting things, but I don't fault those people for caring too much about whatever it is they are into.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:08
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Slugworth posted:Fair enough, I guess I read jivjov as like, preemptively cutting that line of argument off by saying better evidence should be used or something? Since he clearly thinks Lucas had it planned? I dunno, I also am not particularly invested in the topic. My stance is basically that Lucas has proven that he's perfectly willing to revise his statements after the fact; ergo looking at anything said after the fact needs to come with a grain of salt. It's much more...viable to look at more statements made at the time rather than his statements about the past made later on.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:18
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He's never said afaict that he didn't know Vader was Lukes father when he was making anh so no revision of statements.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:30
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Noam Chomsky posted:I can agree with that. Pretty much all, maybe all, Star Wars books are garbage.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:34
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Mocking obsessives is a very old, very rich tradition here at the Something Awful Forums. Don't take it personally. Very true, and I don't. I just like to chime in in the defense of those who do, especially since those who have spent the most time pointing out others' obsessiveness seem to be far more obsessive about their pet theories and analysis than the target of their ire is concerning things like cannon and whatnot.
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Jan 29, 2016 17:43
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Finally saw it last night. I'd say it was an entertaining movie and they're definitely on the right track. The only thing I don't like is how convenient the plot gets sometimes, like everybody being able to find everyone else very easily in vast landscapes and facilities. I didn't really like the very end. You're telling me something with normal Earth gravity, about the size of Mars, is able to smoosh itself into a perfect yellow star already well into the main sequence? You crammed enough mass (along with the black hole that I'm sure was there) in that thing and there were no gravitational or relativistic effects? Muh science 
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Jan 29, 2016 18:04
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never mind
Yaws fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 18:10
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skooma512 posted:Finally saw it last night. In a galaxy where there is sound in a vacuum, yes, something with normal Earth gravity can do that.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:25
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skooma512 posted:Finally saw it last night. I get it, but Luke is told simply to go to the Dagobah system, and then crash lands his xwing next to Yoda's house. Let's chalk these things up to the force.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:36
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skooma512 posted:I didn't really like the very end. You're telling me something with normal Earth gravity, about the size of Mars, is able to smoosh itself into a perfect yellow star already well into the main sequence? You crammed enough mass (along with the black hole that I'm sure was there) in that thing and there were no gravitational or relativistic effects? Muh science The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:40
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Bongo Bill posted:As I recall, the conversation began in response to the idea of people getting literally mad about movies contradicting RPG sourcebooks. That attitude is the enemy, not the attitude of enjoying the shared universe premise of writing fiction. This is as simply as the argument can be made, it's not about "shaming" someone for liking certain Star Wars books or whatever. That does happen among goons a lot, but in this case the argument against the EU was not that "nerds like spin-offs".
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Jan 29, 2016 18:42
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Forget about pointing to all of the other completely scientifically improbable things in Star Wars as precedent-- has anything scientifically plausible happened in Star Wars, ever? Star Wars is very interested in technology, machines, and industry, but it doesn't care about science.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:43
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Empress Theonora posted:Forget about pointing to all of the other completely scientifically improbable things in Star Wars as precedent-- has anything scientifically plausible happened in Star Wars, ever? A well-meaning, but too-earnest dude wooed a woman who knew better, but he was "her type." Babies are born. Somebody dies of old age. Things fall down toward planets. umm That might be it.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:46
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Blackstar Warrior is canon, therefore jivjov is wrong.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:58
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skooma512 posted:I didn't really like the very end. You're telling me something with normal Earth gravity, about the size of Mars, is able to smoosh itself into a perfect yellow star already well into the main sequence? You crammed enough mass (along with the black hole that I'm sure was there) in that thing and there were no gravitational or relativistic effects? Muh science 
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Jan 29, 2016 19:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I didn't say anything about 'tools of resistance'. ?
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Jan 29, 2016 19:04
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Noam Chomsky posted:Very true, and I don't. I just like to chime in in the defense of those who do, especially since those who have spent the most time pointing out others' obsessiveness seem to be far more obsessive about their pet theories and analysis than the target of their ire is concerning things like cannon and whatnot. *fart*
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Jan 29, 2016 19:48
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This is a ridiculous example of canon hurting entertainment & the reason why jvjvjvovjvjvovjvs are a pox quote:It’s not that executives don’t want Rey running on the floor of the forest moon of Endor. But “Battlefront” is based on the science-fiction franchise’s original trilogy released between 1977 and 1983. “The Force Awakens” is set about 30 years after “Return of the Jedi.” Now even video games must be canon, jesus christ
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Jan 29, 2016 20:01
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People don't like their immersion broken. It's why we'd hate to see Jon Snow using an iPad on Game of Thrones, even though "they didn't have iPads back then" is irrelevant since the show takes place in fantasy dragon land and so technically everything is possible. Rey could be on Endor because she falls into a wormhole between Eps 7 and 8.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:10
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Firstborn posted:This dude owns so much. You assume he has to be a badass because he should be killed instantly in any kind of laser swordfight yet he's on the council.
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