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mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Sickening posted:

His wife works and he is the stay at home dad.

Lucky.

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a dozen swans
Aug 24, 2012
hello friends! i'm going to the GP this weekend and i don't really know very much about the new limited format. can someone point me in the direction of genuinely useful advice about the draft format? should i just play lsv's set review under some white noise while i sleep tonight? eat someone's prerelease cards to gain their power? please help, tia

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Meh, if it was my wife playing magic all day instead of ya know, watching our 2 year old I would probably send my child to daycare. I would also be pursuing divorce, but that is a given.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


My two year old has a job in magic finance. Value!

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received

rabidsquid posted:

My two year old has a job in magic finance. Value!

Good news for you! Calciform Pools has jumped one cent since OGW came out!

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Good news for you! Calciform Pools has jumped one cent since OGW came out!

A Calciform Pools spec is basically a license to print money. Firstly, the difference between the all-time high and low is nine cents. Lets face it, the card is the definition of stability. Secondly, when I get hired at wotc the Calciform Pools set is pretty far out behind the Relentless Rats set and the Nothing But Walls Set.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Mikujin posted:

Mind Funeral ... (the most cards I've milled with it are 36, after double-Surgicaling two of my opponent's 4 of lands with 3 copies each still in

I'm normally a proponent of extracting threats instead of lands (outside of stuff like Tron) but that does sound like a spicy use for Surgical. Now I really wish the only local Modern event I know of wasn't A) On my preferred gym night and B) On the other side of town :(

E: Can you cast Archive Trap for its alternate cost off of Snaps? My guess is no but if you can then I might have to look into picking up one or two Snaps someday.

C-Euro fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jan 30, 2016

Fuzzy Mammal
Aug 15, 2001

Lipstick Apathy

Angry Grimace posted:

It's a shiny button that says "put cards in collection," I can't help it :(

I did a Prerelease draft instead and my opponent went Turn 2 Hedron Crawler, turn 3 Foil Thought-Knot Seer games 1 and 2, both of which I immediately conceded because that poo poo makes me salty as gently caress.

I'm kinda looking forward to the new phantom sealed. Who wants standard junk clogging up their account? Once they announce constructed leagues where you just bring a decklist and points to enter instead of digging up Lillys and poo poo I'll call modo perfect. (Keep the pptqs and high end tournaments bring-your-own-cards only so the secondary market doesn't totally crater if you want idgaf)

Dungeon Ecology
Feb 9, 2011

Sickening posted:

Paul Cheon is such a loving deadbeat. He is telling the people in the chat that there are many downsides to parenting. One of them appears to be that your two year old wants attention from you when you spend most of the day playing magic. It appears his child doesn't want to go into another room all by himself and leave him alone.

People give this scumbag money. :commissar:

yeah you think you saw something under the bed? you wanna hear something real scary? missing your p1p3 because ur too busy pulling an old teddy bear from under your bed. Leave daddy alone, go see a star war or something

Count Bleck
Apr 5, 2010

DISPEL MAGIC!

If you think having a kid will alter your lifestyle in a way you won't like, don't loving have a kid.

Death Bot
Mar 4, 2007

Binary killing machines, turning 1 into 0 since 0011000100111001 0011011100110110

Sickening posted:

Paul Cheon is such a loving deadbeat. He is telling the people in the chat that there are many downsides to parenting. One of them appears to be that your two year old wants attention from you when you spend most of the day playing magic. It appears his child doesn't want to go into another room all by himself and leave him alone.

People give this scumbag money. :commissar:

its actually heartbreaking watching him stream (i haven't for ages) because he always looks super upset every time his Human Child comes around to say hi

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Death Bot posted:

its actually heartbreaking watching him stream (i haven't for ages) because he always looks super upset every time his Human Child comes around to say hi

Did anyone make a Youtube compilation of this? Or anyone have links to some of these moments?

OfChristandMen
Feb 14, 2006

GENERIC CANDY AVATAR #2
It's so loving sad, I don't know how people can continue to watch it.

I think it's one thing when Jeff Hoogland stops to change his baby's diaper or streams while his toddler is napping, but it just seems so outlandish that his Wife lets him just "watch the kid" while streaming MTGO all day.

Dungeon Ecology
Feb 9, 2011

OfChristandMen posted:

It's so loving sad, I don't know how people can continue to watch it.

I think it's one thing when Jeff Hoogland stops to change his baby's diaper or streams while his toddler is napping, but it just seems so outlandish that his Wife lets him just "watch the kid" while streaming MTGO all day.

well how else is she gonna find a real man to settle down with?

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

C-Euro posted:

I'm normally a proponent of extracting threats instead of lands (outside of stuff like Tron) but that does sound like a spicy use for Surgical. Now I really wish the only local Modern event I know of wasn't A) On my preferred gym night and B) On the other side of town :(

E: Can you cast Archive Trap for its alternate cost off of Snaps? My guess is no but if you can then I might have to look into picking up one or two Snaps someday.
In game 1 my first Surgical is always on a threat, but once you get to look at their deck you know what you're fighting. That said, I always pen down which lands and how many are in because using Surgical to remove lands you Mind Funeral can hit can sometimes be totally crushing. A lot of decks, for example, play 3-4 of fetches and 1-2 of the shocks they're using. Sometimes it's worth using that info to Surgical fetches, too. Not entirely what Surgical is there for, certainly, but providing yourself with multiple outs and avenues of play in order to burn your opponent out [of cards] is important when you're playing a super linear strategy.

And to answer you latter question, no. Archive Trap has one alternate cost, Snapcaster just gives it another in Flashback, and you can't use alternate costs on alternate costs.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
I have played against that mill deck before and it was close all games. I decided to price the deck and wow, its incredible how expensive some of that is for being in only playable in this finge deck. Glimpse the Unthinkable is 20 bucks on the cheap end? Modern is a strange format.

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Sickening posted:

I have played against that mill deck before and it was close all games. I decided to price the deck and wow, its incredible how expensive some of that is for being in only playable in this finge deck. Glimpse the Unthinkable is 20 bucks on the cheap end? Modern is a strange format.

Unthinkable has casual appeal. See big, fat angels that belong to no competitive decks.

Molybdenum
Jun 25, 2007
Melting Point ~2622C

Sickening posted:

I have played against that mill deck before and it was close all games. I decided to price the deck and wow, its incredible how expensive some of that is for being in only playable in this finge deck. Glimpse the Unthinkable is 20 bucks on the cheap end? Modern is a strange format.

Mill is a casual all star strategy. Glimpse has been $20 for years

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer
Milling also has casual appeal in the sense that some people literally put value in the idea that you might mill someone's win conditions and win that way.

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

Sickening posted:

I have played against that mill deck before and it was close all games. I decided to price the deck and wow, its incredible how expensive some of that is for being in only playable in this finge deck. Glimpse the Unthinkable is 20 bucks on the cheap end? Modern is a strange format.
Welcome to Modern!

But seriously, as someone mentioned, Glimpse has been expensive since Ravnica block rotated almost entirely on the back of the kitchen table scene. There's all sorts of casual mill decks and sometimes people get really excited about putting this in their super cool deck. I know it also got a lot of play in Tiny Leaders when that format was kind of popular.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Sickening posted:

I have played against that mill deck before and it was close all games. I decided to price the deck and wow, its incredible how expensive some of that is for being in only playable in this finge deck. Glimpse the Unthinkable is 20 bucks on the cheap end? Modern is a strange format.

Glimpse has always been stupidly expensive and despite buying them at roughly their current price point, I would be fine seeing them go down. This is the only deck I know of that plays them and I don't even understand what "casual appeal" means here, they suck in EDH and no one playing kitchen table Magic is going to drop a C-note on a playset just for kitchen table games.

E: Other than Glimpse the deck is not horribly expensive if you have the lands. $5 Archive Trap is the next priciest non-land in my build, unless you're splashing white like I am for Path (but you probably own the Paths already anyway). It makes me sad there's no other viable UB/UW/Esper archetypes in Modern, I have all these fetches and dual lands in those colors but nothing else to use them in :( Grixis/Jeskai control-ish decks I guess, but then I'd have to buy the appropriate Rx lands and stuff like Snapcaster that I can't (currently) justify buying.

Mikujin posted:

In game 1 my first Surgical is always on a threat, but once you get to look at their deck you know what you're fighting. That said, I always pen down which lands and how many are in because using Surgical to remove lands you Mind Funeral can hit can sometimes be totally crushing. A lot of decks, for example, play 3-4 of fetches and 1-2 of the shocks they're using. Sometimes it's worth using that info to Surgical fetches, too. Not entirely what Surgical is there for, certainly, but providing yourself with multiple outs and avenues of play in order to burn your opponent out [of cards] is important when you're playing a super linear strategy.

Hm, hadn't thought of it that way. The downside of pulling out fetches is that they're easy search triggers for Archive Trap. Hell I'm playing around with a pair of Trapmaker's Snare to make sure I can get an Archive Trap into hand if I've had a slow turn. Also, don't forget that by your logic, Ghost Quarter helps reduce their library land-count too!

How much aggro is in your meta? I saw that you have only two Crypt Incursions, that card is a literal lifesaver since you have so many ways to ding yourself between fetches, shocks, and Surgicals. I go 3/3 Surgical/Crypt maindeck with Surgical #4 SB, but I could see myself going 4/2(+1) in a slower meta.

C-Euro fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 30, 2016

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer
Glimpse was also a key card in extended dredge :patriot:

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

C-Euro posted:

Hm, hadn't thought of it that way. The downside of pulling out fetches is that they're easy search triggers for Archive Trap. Hell I'm playing around with a pair of Trapmaker's Snare to make sure I can get an Archive Trap into hand if I've had a slow turn. Also, don't forget that by your logic, Ghost Quarter helps reduce their library land-count too!

How much aggro is in your meta? I saw that you have only two Crypt Incursions, that card is a literal lifesaver since you have so many ways to ding yourself between fetches, shocks, and Surgicals. I go 3/3 Surgical/Crypt maindeck with Surgical #4 SB, but I could see myself going 4/2(+1) in a slower meta.
Oh, certainly, your goal isn't to immediately snap off Surgicals on fetches or anything. I just ran into a green deck that went off with Beck // Call and Cloudstone Curio (with Nettle Sentinels and Heritage Druids) and game 2 I got T1 Thought Scour and Surgical his Breeding Pools, which prevented him from combo-ing off.

I've already been testing 2 x Ghost Quarter and so far it's been pretty neutral in gain. I've had a game or two where it's netted me an Archive Trap trigger (yay!), but I've had a few where I've had to mulligan an otherwise keepable hand because I had Ghost Quarter instead of the fetch it replaced. I'll keep grinding games out with both lists to try and see what gives me the most consistency.

I've only run into a couple really aggressive decks, and I've been happy to have the Incursions in those cases. That being said, I've been happy to only have two in the main because it is sometimes a dead (or irrelevant) card. When it's good, it's great, but it's almost never good. Having the safety valve in is important though, because sometimes you do just gain like 30 life on it against burn and put yourself out of range really quick.

I played out about 10 more matches since my last comment on Orb and I think it's growing on me. Sometimes it just taxes your opponent too much on a thin library, and sometimes just dropping it on T2 after like an Arhchive Trap it stops your opponent from making plays because they're scared to tap out and mill themselves.

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer

Mikujin posted:

Oh, certainly, your goal isn't to immediately snap off Surgicals on fetches or anything. I just ran into a green deck that went off with Beck // Call and Cloudstone Curio (with Nettle Sentinels and Heritage Druids) and game 2 I got T1 Thought Scour and Surgical his Breeding Pools, which prevented him from combo-ing off.

That's just the old modern combo elves :v:.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
I'm surprised that Ghost Quarter is giving you mana trouble, with only running two colors I thought it would be better for you but yeah the deck relies heavily on colored mana. I dread seeing decks with Blood Moon, probably the most dangerous card after Leyline.

I had Orbs when I first built the deck but I'm a baby who doesn't like to hurt himself so I dropped them for the Snares (which also help me get my SB Ravenous Traps when I need them). They're probably also better for you since you have Snapcasters in your build, and I am not baller enough to have them. That said I still have those Orbs somewhere, I might put them back in my SB if I find an aggro-heavy meta here.

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

C-Euro posted:

I'm surprised that Ghost Quarter is giving you mana trouble, with only running two colors I thought it would be better for you but yeah the deck relies heavily on colored mana. I dread seeing decks with Blood Moon, probably the most dangerous card after Leyline.

I had Orbs when I first built the deck but I'm a baby who doesn't like to hurt himself so I dropped them for the Snares (which also help me get my SB Ravenous Traps when I need them). They're probably also better for you since you have Snapcasters in your build, and I am not baller enough to have them. That said I still have those Orbs somewhere, I might put them back in my SB if I find an aggro-heavy meta here.
It hasn't for the most part, only on occasion. When you've got a hand with a cantrip or two but only Ghost Quarter you can't keep it (whereas you could with any other blue source).

On the flip side, sometimes you get a game where you draw them both and casually strip mine your Grixis Control opponents blue sources and he doesn't bother searching because you could have Archive Trap (I didn't). Also found out how land-light that deck really operates when I hit him with Mind Funeral (he had 25 cards left) and I got his whole deck, having never used Surgical. He was salty as hell.

E: Snapcasters have been great in the build. Sometimes you're just flashing back Thought Scour to cycle, but sometimes you're flashing back Visions of BeyondAncestral Recall, or a Glimpse. Heck, I've even flashed back Mind Funeral - and if you've made 5 land drops chances are you opponent doesn't have many cards left to hit. They're also great against creature decks since they can chump for some extra life, and they also do well against Liliana because you have no other ways of doing anything to her. Incidentally, as you mentioned, the Snapcasters have tons of synergy with your Orbs.

Mikujin fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jan 30, 2016

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Zoness posted:

Ok to be fair skullclamp is really close to being the worst too. Lion's Eye Diamond is pretty close in the race. I don't really mind the VMA ancestral and time walk but I can see how those would be upsetting, sure.

The real crime of VMA is how bad Goblin Trenches looks with the modern card frame.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


C-Euro posted:

Glimpse has always been stupidly expensive and despite buying them at roughly their current price point, I would be fine seeing them go down. This is the only deck I know of that plays them and I don't even understand what "casual appeal" means here, they suck in EDH and no one playing kitchen table Magic is going to drop a C-note on a playset just for kitchen table games.

I am sorry to say but you are wrong my friend. Casual kitchen table players will absolutely drop that kind of cash on Glimpse. This isn't mtg finance at all, this card has been one of the most popular casual cards basically ever as far as I can tell.

They aren't even going in specific decks, it's like zoness said casuals love the idea of hitting all of your win cons in mill and holy gently caress 10 cards for 2 mana???

Honestly I have even seen Traumatize kick around in casual play groups a lot.

JerryLee
Feb 4, 2005

THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Attorney at Funk posted:

The real crime of VMA is how bad the modern card frame looks.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
Anybody else have that friend that says "you should come with me to so and so's, we always get 20 for modern." And it turn to poo poo? I get people want to build up a player base at their lgs, but don't lie to me. We had 5 show up for modern. Ugh.

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010
I just did my first draft in MTGO and I have no idea how to find out if my cards were worth any tickets, or how to work the trade system if they are. Can anyone give me the rundown, or point me to a guide?

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Mikujin posted:

E: Snapcasters have been great in the build. Sometimes you're just flashing back Thought Scour to cycle, but sometimes you're flashing back Visions of BeyondAncestral Recall, or a Glimpse. Heck, I've even flashed back Mind Funeral - and if you've made 5 land drops chances are you opponent doesn't have many cards left to hit. They're also great against creature decks since they can chump for some extra life, and they also do well against Liliana because you have no other ways of doing anything to her. Incidentally, as you mentioned, the Snapcasters have tons of synergy with your Orbs.

What decks running Liliana are letting you swing in with a 2/1 with no other ways of interacting with the board? If you were running the Esper build and had access to Path I could maybe see it.

rabidsquid posted:

I am sorry to say but you are wrong my friend. Casual kitchen table players will absolutely drop that kind of cash on Glimpse. This isn't mtg finance at all, this card has been one of the most popular casual cards basically ever as far as I can tell.

They aren't even going in specific decks, it's like zoness said casuals love the idea of hitting all of your win cons in mill and holy gently caress 10 cards for 2 mana???

Honestly I have even seen Traumatize kick around in casual play groups a lot.

I would have thought that the price on Glimpse would keep more kitchen players away but I guess they are more serious than I thought. When people say "kitchen table players" but not necessarily EDH I'm usually picturing kids.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


Even kids will save up to buy magic cards they want. It's not like they need to save up for fetches and typed duals or anything so dropping the cash on a sweet older mill card isn't a huge burden.

Kitchen table players buy singles!

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010

by sebmojo

Sickening posted:

I have played against that mill deck before and it was close all games. I decided to price the deck and wow, its incredible how expensive some of that is for being in only playable in this finge deck. Glimpse the Unthinkable is 20 bucks on the cheap end? Modern is a strange format.

"it is 10 year old card competitive players have all sold them to dealers and when casuals stop playing they tend to end up in shoe boxes forgotten about"

quote:

I work for a cardshop. We rarely get staple mill cards traded in to us, and when we do they fly off the shelves. This means the demand is much higher than our supply.
As to why the demand is high... I wish to direct you to a concept I like to call "The Life Cycle of a Magic Newb". Magic Newbs almost all go through similar phases; The tribal deck phase, the no win condition control deck phase, the Megrim Phase, the Artifact Phase, etc.
The Mill Phase is one of the most common phases for relatively new players; they get owned by MindFuneral.deck and think "I gotta have that." They play it for a while among friends until it gets old or their friends learn to beat it.
Since mill cards have almost zero tournament demand, they are readily available upon release to be gobbled up by casual players. Shops sell out of them quickly and are grateful, however the cards tend to re-enter the local economy person to person rather than by resale. Just as newbs are drawn to mill, so do they become disenchated with the deck once they 'level up' enough to realize it isn't a great strategy. However, since not all players advance equally, they probably meet somebody or know somebody who wants to build a mill deck, so they trade off their cards.
The cycle repeats and repeats. Mill staples do trickle their way back to vendors, but not at the same rate as tournament staples because those are more impacted by things like set releases, tournaments, rotations, etc.

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

C-Euro posted:

What decks running Liliana are letting you swing in with a 2/1 with no other ways of interacting with the board? If you were running the Esper build and had access to Path I could maybe see it.
Some Jund and Grixis lists. When they see you dumping some mill cards out they tend to just start tapping out for everything and swinging with whatever they have. I have, several times, just flashed in a Snap at EOT and jammed it into Liliana to take her from 4->2 and have them -2 to get rid of a chump block (or potential trade) down the road.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


My favorite way to kill Liliana ever was when my opponent gleefully played out his top decked land and ticked her up to ultimate range / to get rid of my last card in hand. Which was a Cryptic Command. Which I used to make him discard Lili to herself :unsmigghh:

Terrible Horse
Apr 27, 2004
:I
is Thought Knot modern playable? It's currently 14 tix, wondering if it will hold that

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Terrible Horse posted:

is Thought Knot modern playable? It's currently 14 tix, wondering if it will hold that

Considering that Modern Eldrazi can pop it out on turn 2 very often, yeah, I think it's going to hold.

Oldsrocket_27
Apr 28, 2009

Chill la Chill posted:

Probably. Their mistake was not continuing this fantastic line of ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HztAWVUO1Zo

This led me to a video of the final minutes of Mike Long winning the '97 pro tour over Mark Justice, and I gotta say, while they both kinda seemed like dicks, but holy poo poo was Mike Long a tool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXAOlb15HD8

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Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011


Mike Long is the winner of the lifetime achievement award for "biggest rear end in a top hat in Magic: The Gathering history."

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