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computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Serf posted:

Maybe if I had to play it for an entire year I would hate it too. I thought it was a generally good 10 hour experience with a batshit fanfiction story.

I also never played the sequel because I heard it was even shorter.

Looks like I have both of them on Steam, maybe I'll play through and see if my opinion changes.

I seem to remember they were fairly large (as in file size) games too, but I think in the modern era of 50+ GB games that's not quite as big.

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CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Lt. Danger posted:

Cool, it is a good movie. I also rewatched it for Alan Rickman recently.

You're kind of like Mathasar, or Brandon. Mathasar believes GalaxyQuest is literally real ("historical documents") because he doesn't understand the concept of fiction. Brandon and the other tech-spec geeks do understand fiction, but they also pretend GalaxyQuest is real because "it's more fun that way". Brandon and Mathasar both believe in canon and continuity - it's important for them, whether for historical accuracy or to maintain suspension of disbelief. Both create 'secondary worlds' to encapsulate this canon: Brandon has his ship simulator, Mathasar his actual ship.

Brandon and Mathasar are good people who do good things, but they're limited. They can imitate and recreate, but they can't apply GalaxyQuest to their own lives because all they see is the 'reality' - the models, the uniforms, the blood-ticks. Brandon can't actually make himself a real NSEA Protector. Mathasar can make a real NSEA Protector, but he can't command it himself.

The inverse of this is Sarris, and to a lesser extent the actors in the beginning. Sarris knows GalaxyQuest isn't real. He sees the opening titles and instantly recognises it as "lies". Bizarrely enough, he also believes in canon and continuity, but for him they only apply to the real world. GalaxyQuest is not canon, it is discontinuous with his reality. It isn't true, and therefore it's valueless - stupid lies for children. Sarris is basically a broken Mathasar, who has realised it's all fake and therefore can't mean anything. He's also like those smug posters who drop in to threads like this to say "it's just a movie, it only exists to make money, it doesn't mean anything".

The actors initially have a similar view. Rickman hates his stupid line and his stupid character that overshadows the real him (Shakespearean actor! five curtain calls!). Weaver has one job and it's boring and unnecessary. Even Allen, who likes the show and the fame, still snaps at his fans and brushes them aside to pursue Weaver/money/adventure. GalaxyQuest is fake and doesn't matter.

The similarity all these characters share is the question "is GalaxyQuest real?" Mathasar and Brandon say yes, it's real, and that's why it matters. Sarris and the actors say no, it's fake, it doesn't matter.

The first two-thirds of the film is farce, in which Allen and the others desperately attempt to maintain the pretence that GalaxyQuest is real. They're completely hopeless at it, but Mathasar is even more hopeless at recognising deception. The turning point is after Sarris captures the ship: the actors stop pretending to be heroes, and start being them. Allen shows some leadership, giving orders and praise and recognition to his crew. Rickman doesn't transform into a real Dr Lazarus, but he embraces his stupid line and the meaning it had for his one disciple, then leads an army to victory. Rockwell stops obsessing over how, as Crewman Number 6, he's doomed to die from the monster-of-the-week, and starts applying his knowledge of sci-fi tropes to become Security Chief 'Roc' Ingersol, despite canonically dying in Episode 81.

Essentially, the actors give up asking the question "is GalaxyQuest real?" They know it isn't, and they know it doesn't help to pretend that it is, wittingly or unwittingly. They accept it's not real, that "canon and continuity" are false concepts, and yet are still able to see the value in the fiction for itself. GalaxyQuest is still valuable despite being fake - in fact, it's valuable because it is fake. Allen doesn't rise to the occasion because Jason Nesmith secretly actually canonically is Commander Quincy Taggart, but because he recognises what Taggart means (determination, self-sacrifice, responsibility) and applies them to his own life - not some perfect recreation of it.

Canon is a trap. Discarding canon is what sets you free.

I hope that all makes sense.

I really like this post. And this read.

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006

Noam Chomsky posted:

You're trusting someone at EA to give a valid, knowledgeable response far more than most. The real reason Rey isn't in the game is because they didn't want to spoil her reveal as a Jedi in the movie and also because Battlefront is a lovely low-content reskin of Battlefield. It's a garbage game with less than half the content of any preceding game. Cannon isn't hurting anything in this case - industry marketing bullshit is.

what if I told you that canon is industry marketing bullshit?

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

euphronius posted:

Vader knows when he skypes Palpatine in ESB and Luke is referred to the "son of skywalker".

Vader knows after he senses that the pilot who blew up the death star is strong in the force, then presumably looks into it and discovers he is from Tatooine, was running around with Obi Wan, and is named Skywalker. ESB begins with him scouring the galaxy, "obsessed with finding young Skywalker."

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Tender Bender posted:

Vader knows after he senses that the pilot who blew up the death star is strong in the force, then presumably looks into it and discovers he is from Tatooine, was running around with Obi Wan, and is named Skywalker. ESB begins with him scouring the galaxy, "obsessed with finding young Skywalker."

Yea you guys should see the kind of hosed up CANON poo poo that happens inbetween ESB & ANH. Vader teams up with a pair of craaaazy droids, and a lady, and fights rebels, and battles luke a million times + leia, hires boba fett like 3 times for various things, boba fett blows up obi wan's house, captures luke, luke gets away, chewbacca almost assassinates vader, c3po's head comes off, vader single handedly kills 30 xwings in his tie fighter before luke crashes his xwing into vaders tie fighter.


while this is happening Lando bangs a grand moff, steals Emperor Palpatine's space yacht, and then blows it up destroying countless priceless jedi/sith artifacts

edit: and leia sneaks off to naboo, rescues pockets of alderaanians, and sends them off to zion where they can live their alderaanian lifestyle in peace (after fighting the Empire a billion times in the process).

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

Jerkface posted:

Yea you guys should see the kind of hosed up CANON poo poo that happens inbetween ESB & ANH. Vader teams up with a pair of craaaazy droids, and a lady, and fights rebels, and battles luke a million times + leia, hires boba fett like 3 times for various things, boba fett blows up obi wan's house, captures luke, luke gets away, chewbacca almost assassinates vader, c3po's head comes off, vader single handedly kills 30 xwings in his tie fighter before luke crashes his xwing into vaders tie fighter.


while this is happening Lando bangs a grand moff, steals Emperor Palpatine's space yacht, and then blows it up destroying countless priceless jedi/sith artifacts

edit: and leia sneaks off to naboo, rescues pockets of alderaanians, and sends them off to zion where they can live their alderaanian lifestyle in peace (after fighting the Empire a billion times in the process).

It's true. All of it.

Beeez
May 28, 2012

euphronius posted:

Vader knows when he skypes Palpatine in ESB and Luke is referred to the "son of skywalker".

Nah, the opening crawl says Vader is "obsessed with finding young Skywalker" and when he sees Echo Base on that screen in his Star Destroyer he says something like "The Rebels are there. And Skywalker is with them." He's lying to Palpatine in that scene because he's planning on overthrowing the Emperor.

Cnut the Great
Mar 30, 2014

Jerkface posted:

Yea you guys should see the kind of hosed up CANON poo poo that happens inbetween ESB & ANH. Vader teams up with a pair of craaaazy droids, and a lady, and fights rebels, and battles luke a million times + leia, hires boba fett like 3 times for various things, boba fett blows up obi wan's house, captures luke, luke gets away, chewbacca almost assassinates vader, c3po's head comes off, vader single handedly kills 30 xwings in his tie fighter before luke crashes his xwing into vaders tie fighter.


while this is happening Lando bangs a grand moff, steals Emperor Palpatine's space yacht, and then blows it up destroying countless priceless jedi/sith artifacts

edit: and leia sneaks off to naboo, rescues pockets of alderaanians, and sends them off to zion where they can live their alderaanian lifestyle in peace (after fighting the Empire a billion times in the process).

I hope the new EU continues to become as batshit insane as the old EU, because that was the only aspect of the EU that ever made it worthwhile.

On some level I actually loved all that anal-retentive obsession with continuity and making everything fit that used to define the EU. It was like a full-fledged religious apologetics discipline. It was fascinating.

Most of the EU material itself sucked, but the whole convoluted continuity infrastructure which got built up over the years in an increasingly implausible attempt to prop up the illusion of a consistent universe was truly a wonder to behold. It had a preposterous sort of ingenuity to it at times, just like real religious apologetics does.

Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 30, 2016

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Beeez posted:

Nah, the opening crawl says Vader is "obsessed with finding young Skywalker" and when he sees Echo Base on that screen in his Star Destroyer he says something like "The Rebels are there. And Skywalker is with them." He's lying to Palpatine in that scene because he's planning on overthrowing the Emperor.

All true.

But when "son of skywalker" is mentioned I think it is undeniable he knows at that point. Though the audience is in the dark of course.

MrMojok
Jan 28, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

Don't you remember this pivotal scene from Empire Strikes Back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaYmLqFFAPI

That was totally awesome!

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Jerkface posted:

while this is happening Lando bangs a grand moff, steals Emperor Palpatine's space yacht, and then blows it up destroying countless priceless jedi/sith artifact

Why isn't this a movie?

quote:

That was totally awesome!

I love that video. :v:

Friendly Factory
Apr 19, 2007

I can't stand the wailing of women

euphronius posted:

He's never said afaict that he didn't know Vader was Lukes father when he was making anh so no revision of statements.

Just to add to Cnut's post, he also said this in an open letter to the Lost producers:

George Lucas posted:

Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories — let’s call them homages — and you’ve got a series.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

Jerkface posted:

Yea you guys should see the kind of hosed up CANON poo poo that happens inbetween ESB & ANH. Vader teams up with a pair of craaaazy droids, and a lady, and fights rebels, and battles luke a million times + leia, hires boba fett like 3 times for various things, boba fett blows up obi wan's house, captures luke, luke gets away, chewbacca almost assassinates vader, c3po's head comes off, vader single handedly kills 30 xwings in his tie fighter before luke crashes his xwing into vaders tie fighter.


while this is happening Lando bangs a grand moff, steals Emperor Palpatine's space yacht, and then blows it up destroying countless priceless jedi/sith artifacts

edit: and leia sneaks off to naboo, rescues pockets of alderaanians, and sends them off to zion where they can live their alderaanian lifestyle in peace (after fighting the Empire a billion times in the process).

So it sounds like the concept of canon didn't really prevent all those different authors from doing their own thing. Like, there's some poor soul whose job it was to reconcile this all to a timeline, but for the most part everybody seemingly did their own thing and told stories they wanted to tell.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Friendly Factory posted:

Just to add to Cnut's post, he also said this in an open letter to the Lost producers:

This makes me like Lucas more...but then I remember the special editions and now I dislike him again.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Friendly Factory posted:

Just to add to Cnut's post, he also said this in an open letter to the Lost producers:

Yes exactly. More support he knew the whole time.

Friendly Factory
Apr 19, 2007

I can't stand the wailing of women

euphronius posted:

Yes exactly. More support he knew the whole time.

Uh

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

I wouldn't say it's proof of anything, but he's certainly being facetious in the letter.

Friendly Factory
Apr 19, 2007

I can't stand the wailing of women

Frackie Robinson posted:

I wouldn't say it's proof of anything, but he's certainly being facetious in the letter.

He's being humorous about it, sure, but I see no reason to believe he's lying. He simply said he suggested father issues, what with the "that's what I'm afraid of" line, and that he figured out what it meant later. There's nothing wrong with building a story in a way that lets you make it up as you go. You just need to be careful to be vague.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
Making poo poo up as you go can make some good poo poo. See: Evangelion.

But anyways, there is no prescribed formula for making a good thing.

Beeez
May 28, 2012
The writers of Breaking Bad mostly made it up as they went along and most people think it's one of the greatest shows of all time.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Look, sir, droids!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riIOiNq0RHk

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Was that fat frog king guy in the underwater city in Episode I the same species as Jar Jar Binks? Are they all supposed to be amphibians?

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

Jack Gladney posted:

Was that fat frog king guy in the underwater city in Episode I the same species as Jar Jar Binks? Are they all supposed to be amphibians?

This confused me for a long time, but if you look he's actually got the same head flaps as Jar Jar, but they're tied behind his head like a ponytail, giving him kind of a Penn Gillette look

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
poo poo, apparently

wookiepedia posted:

the stories were inspired by the science fiction stories of Jean Giraud— specifically The Airtight Garage.

If this isn't bullshit, this is loving great. A quick look at the actual Droids cartoon and the artstyle does seem to be going for a Moebius look.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Jack Gladney posted:

Was that fat frog king guy in the underwater city in Episode I the same species as Jar Jar Binks? Are they all supposed to be amphibians?

Two races, same species apparently. The frog dudes were the elite.

It's actually interesting because we don't usually see extreme dimorphism in alien races outside of the "aliens with tits" phenomena.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I loving love franco-belgian comics and I think you should too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8B10_oY5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viaDGF5TI6c

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Friendly Factory posted:

He's being humorous about it, sure, but I see no reason to believe he's lying. He simply said he suggested father issues, what with the "that's what I'm afraid of" line, and that he figured out what it meant later. There's nothing wrong with building a story in a way that lets you make it up as you go. You just need to be careful to be vague.

He's not even explicitly saying "I was making up the father stuff as I went". Read it again:

George Lucas posted:

Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories — let’s call them homages — and you’ve got a series.

Like, he's also obviously not talking about the references to other stories as an example of something he didn't plan out. You can reverse the sentence structure to make it clearer, but he's basically saying "here's how to make a series: pretend you have everything planned, throw in some father issues and add in references to other stories". The logic of "pretend you planned it" and "father issues" don't directly connect.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP
Yeah, even taken in isolation ANH is all about father figures. Luke has Obi-Wan and Uncle Owen obviously, but Leia has this dynamic with Tarkin and Vader too. Tarkin especially is this Big Evil Dad, as opposed to Obi-Wan being the Big Good Dad.

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib
Rogue One is going to own bones. Spoiler thread is locked so I'm posting here.
:siren: Spoilers :siren: but everybody knew it was happening.

quote:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a781585/a-more-violent-darth-vader-will-dismember-rebels-in-star-wars-movie-rogue-one/
Just when you thought Darth Vader couldn't get any more evil, it's been claimed that a "more violent" version of the villain will feature in Rogue One.

According to Making Star Wars, the Sith Lord will take no prisoners during his appearances in the battlefield scenes of the upcoming movie.

We'll apparently see "decapitated rebels, people being dismembered by Vader throwing his sword [and] levitating bodies to make human shields" in the battle sequences.

Several suits of armour have been built for Vader in the film, including a stunt version.
:black101:

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

So that character is filling the Godzilla/Kaiju role. Down.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

After liking Godzilla '14 and seeing the original Monsters recently, a Gareth Edwards Star Wars movie has me intrigued.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

drunkill posted:

Rogue One is going to own bones. Spoiler thread is locked so I'm posting here.
:siren: Spoilers :siren: but everybody knew it was happening.

:black101:

Well gently caress.

10 more months, damnit. TEN MORE MONTHS. Guhhhhhhhhhh.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I'm so hype for Rogue One. In all the ways I wasn't for Episode VII (which I ended up liking anyway).

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I really hope they consider re-using Christensen for the role. It would bring :anime:continuity:anime: to everything.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I want Hayden to be digitally added to every Kylo Ren scene, as a Force Ghost desperately trying to tell his grandson to not be such a gently caress-up.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

MonsieurChoc posted:

I want Hayden to be digitally added to every Kylo Ren scene, as a Force Ghost desperately trying to tell his grandson to not be such a gently caress-up.

That'd be a cool Rifftrax.

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich

computer parts posted:

Two races, same species apparently. The frog dudes were the elite.

It's actually interesting because we don't usually see extreme dimorphism in alien races outside of the "aliens with tits" phenomena.

There is that one very fat Twi'Lek senator I posted earlier.

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib

BrianWilly posted:

I really hope they consider re-using Christensen for the role. It would bring :anime:continuity:anime: to everything.

James Earl Jones will be returning. But who knows, Christensen might be in the suit? Apparently they have restored the original trilogy suit to it's ANH condition plus made other versions too.

Examples of recent James Earl Jones as Vader in Rebels:
Vader arrives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiHXZl3pqj8
Vader and Palpatine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjigBxuXpww

ecureuilmatrix
Mar 30, 2011


Heeeeere's Canon! :unsmigghh:

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TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

drunkill posted:

James Earl Jones will be returning. But who knows, Christensen might be in the suit? Apparently they have restored the original trilogy suit to it's ANH condition plus made other versions too.

Examples of recent James Earl Jones as Vader in Rebels:
Vader arrives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiHXZl3pqj8
Vader and Palpatine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjigBxuXpww


People are gonna complain JEJ sounds different and it's gonna get annoying

E: Goddamn though, I was just thinking today how much of a shame it was that we never get to see Darth Vader really cut loose ever.

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