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Accidental effortpost. The abridged version is that Yud believes sociopathy is good once more.Velius posted:Boys from Brazil? Bingo. Zonekeeper posted:Holy gently caress how does this man keep missing the point of the books so goddamned hard? The ENTIRE POINT that Dumbledore tried to get across during the books is the power of love. Having Dumbledore manipulate people into being together is 100% against his morals. Because, as was mentioned later, Yud cares nothing about the books. He liked the universe and the general ideas of it, which he got fed to him by fanfiction authors. Now, we could excuse Yud by saying that this is due to the fact that Dumbledore in fanfic land has been twisted to what he writes and that he just doesn't know better; but that implies that he hasn't read the original books, and that all fanfic writer write the same, which are both blatantly false given that he admits to have read books 1-3 and an insane amount of insane fanfic. Since he has already twisted Ron and Hermionie into mumbling idiots around Eilezarry, it follows that that's the case with Dumbledore, too. This is problematic because even if Eilezarry is the main character everyone bows to, Dumbledore carries a much bigger voice with him due to his position as a powerful wizard in the story. Which brings us back, believe it or not, to Boys from Brazil. What Yud is contending here is that not only that kind of behaviour is acceptable, but is also the product of love. It seems that in Yud's mind love=time spent on something, however it may be spent. Dumbledore manipulated, sure, but he did it out of love (which makes it okay, somehow). Yud himself has done nothing for AI research despite his claims, but he has "thought" about it a lot, so he clearly loves it. It all goes back to his fear of death. Sure, our time is valuable, but when you start thinking about it in terms of the "distance" between life and death, and you are terrified that you are inevitably going down that path, it becomes much more precious. I guess this ties in with the whole "opposite of love is indifference" thing, because you don't normally think about things you don't care about. The punchline is that his idea of time well spent was terribly written Harry Potter fanfic.
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Jan 13, 2016 20:20
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Also I like the implication Mister Scientist-guy whose name I can't recall only got together with petunia because of her physical appearance.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:19
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Nessus posted:Well at least he's not advancing the "the fanfic is better and more important than the main work" argument. He tried to get his fans to get him in contact with Rowling and Daniel Radcliffe in an attempt to get his fic published as an official, canon alternate universe.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:26
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kvx687 posted:He tried to get his fans to get him in contact with Rowling and Daniel Radcliffe in an attempt to get his fic published as an official, canon alternate universe. I've never understood what he thought Daniel Radcliffe could do for him.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:11
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Chapter 17 – Locating the Hypothesis Part Twenty-Five quote:
Does “sneezes” in this context mean what I think it means? Dumbledore is looking more and more like a creepo with every appearance he makes in this story. quote:
That’s not a bad question, in the circumstances. quote:
I’m half-surprised Eliezarry didn’t ask what would happen if they cooked and ate the egg. JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 07:02
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Harry could probably derive from Bayesian principles that you probably can't cook an egg that renews itself in magical fire.
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Jan 14, 2016 07:56
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Somehow, making a phoenix look just like a chicken pisses me off more than nearly anything in this beside the rape threat in chapter 7. I don't even know why - I'm not overly fond of phoenixes, it just seems like such a flat joke, so utterly devoid of ... well, joy and wonder. Which Yud is determined to leech from the story at every instant anyway. I'm not surprised, but god, I hate it. Then again, I'm also really frustrated by the 'sneezes' and the 12 wizards Dumbledore can't tell Harry about until he's older. That's just. Ugh. I'm pretty sure the twelve wizards are also some kind of weird sex joke, or maybe I'm assuming too much based on how unfitting the rest of the work is? I don't know. I hate this. 
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Jan 14, 2016 16:44
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The device that measures the number of queefs by left handed women in france is a monty python thing, I believe.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:42
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A Tin Of Beans posted:Somehow, making a phoenix look just like a chicken pisses me off more than nearly anything in this beside the rape threat in chapter 7. I don't even know why - I'm not overly fond of phoenixes, it just seems like such a flat joke, so utterly devoid of ... well, joy and wonder. Which Yud is determined to leech from the story at every instant anyway. I'm not surprised, but god, I hate it. Fawkes originally looked like an old, very sick chicken in the actual books, too. Phoenixes age badly.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:08
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Darth Walrus posted:Fawkes originally looked like an old, very sick chicken in the actual books, too. Phoenixes age badly. Did he? I guess I let the covers color my memory/imagination more than I realized. Yud gets a single, lonesome pass.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:37
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A Tin Of Beans posted:Did he? I guess I let the covers color my memory/imagination more than I realized. The covers show him in his prime, when he looks much less chicken-like. Yud's description of him during the death-rebirth where Harry first meets him, though, is accurate.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:13
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quote:"Don't look so horrified, Harry!" said Dumbledore. "Fawkes hasn't been hurt." Dumbledore's hand dipped into a pocket, and then the same hand sifted through the ashes and turned up a small yellowish egg. "Look, here's an egg!" I can't read this as anything else than Dumbledore fishing an egg out of his pocket and pretending he found it in the ash. So I guess phoenixes don't get reborn, they just die spectacularly and then the owner has to find a new bird/egg quickly?
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Jan 15, 2016 07:06
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Uh isn't the joke that it's just a normal chicken?
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Jan 15, 2016 16:57
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ymgve posted:I can't read this as anything else than Dumbledore fishing an egg out of his pocket and pretending he found it in the ash. So I guess phoenixes don't get reborn, they just die spectacularly and then the owner has to find a new bird/egg quickly? Yeah, that was really dumb and unclear when I first read it. Spoilers: It was just a chicken. But it's just Dumbledore loving with him for no reason. Later Harry sees the real Fawkes, which he notes as looking significantly different and actually is a Phoenix.
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Jan 16, 2016 02:10
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Vateke posted:Yeah, that was really dumb and unclear when I first read it. Spoilers: It was just a chicken. But it's just Dumbledore loving with him for no reason. Later Harry sees the real Fawkes, which he notes as looking significantly different and actually is a Phoenix. (small spoiler) It was a transfigured rock, not a real chicken and (end spoilers) it's foreshadowing for how Dumbledore faked Narcissa Malfoy's death: he burned a fake duplicate and hid the real one away.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:23
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In It For The Tank posted:(small spoiler) It was a transfigured rock, not a real chicken and (end spoilers) it's foreshadowing for how Dumbledore faked Narcissa Malfoy's death: he burned a fake duplicate and hid the real one away. While the first part is true, I'm not willing to extend enough credit to Yud to call the second part "foreshadowing". That would imply he meant to do it at the time instead of retconning it later to be less random and weird. Dalris Othaine fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 18:31
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While there's a lot of problems with this fic, too little planning is not one of them. In fact, the opposite is true, there's probably too much planning so that things like foreshadowing don't always feel organic. It's definitely not the case that Yud was just randomly making ambiguous and weird scenes and then going back and working them into the story; he had clear endgoals in mind so he was able to plant clues to foreshadow later story beats from the start of the very first chapter all the way through. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The text certainly rewards a careful reader but it means you'll occasionally get scenes or lines that are loaded with meaning and foreshadowing or whatever but aren't appreciable or even comprehendable without hindsight, which is a pretty clumsy way to do things. The pre-planning also means that, for the story arc where Yud deviated from his plan, things get especially lovely.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:05
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I don't buy that he was foreshadowing from the very first chapter. It really feels to me like he started the fiction out as some sort of "lol look how dumb the HP universe is, let's unravel its illogic" thing, and then when it took off he started to put some more effort into it. He probably did sit down at some point and figure out the actual details of the setting, but this wasn't at chapter one and it definitely involved the back-justification of earlier chapters. That bit at the end where Voldemort asks Harry if anyone thought a REAL 11-year old would act like he did at the start of the fic was such an obvious and obnoxious retcon to address the story's earlier faults that you really must start to question what other dumb things that made sense later were truly designed to make sense from the beginning.
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Jan 17, 2016 19:14
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Unless the italicized intro of the first chapter was added in later (which, it could have been, I dunno), I think it's really hard to argue that Yud didn't know at least the broad strokes of what was going to happen in the story or that he wasn't actively laying foreshadowing for it from the start because the intro depicts Harry killing the Death Eaters with his partial-transfiguration ability at the end of the story. The intro is specific in a way that makes it difficult for me to believe that he randomly made it up and only later decided what it was because (the reference to the silver thread and black robes falling couldn't really have ever been anything other than the use of partial-transfiguration to kill a bunch of Death Eaters). You'd think if he was just bullshitting he would have used something vaguer like a flash of light or whatever. I also don't think there was ever any doubt about the direction of the story since the lighthearted first chapter is preceded by the description of "blood spills out in litres" and people dying. While I don't doubt that there was plenty of back-justification going on throughout the fic (and reading this thread tells me he definitely edited some stuff, like removing that xenophobic description of non-Western civilization), I'm pretty sure most authors of a serialized works of fiction do that - J.K. Rowling certainly did - because they'll inevitably have a cool idea that does not mesh with what they have previously written, and it doesn't mean that the big story beats changed and that the foreshadowing that litters the story was all only retroactively made valid.
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Jan 17, 2016 20:31
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Yeah, there have been edits to fix small errors or inconsistencies with canon (eg. Petunia's potion had originally helper her lose weight, until someone pointed out that in canon she wasn't fat), but I can't remember any foreshadowing being added after the fact, nor events being obviously chosen to retroactively create foreshadowing. I actually once called out a foreshadowing in Ch.1 that I was absolutely sure had been added in later since it paid off around chapter ninety or so - the centaur telling Lily not to help her sister - but it turned out I was wrong and it had actually been there from the start. Welp.
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Jan 17, 2016 21:02
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Tank I think you're underestimating how easy it is to look back on earlier sections of your work and manufacture 'foreshadowing' by deciding to make off hand remarks suddenly plot important.
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Jan 17, 2016 21:30
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Pavlov posted:Tank I think you're underestimating how easy it is to look back on earlier sections of your work and manufacture 'foreshadowing' by deciding to make off hand remarks suddenly plot important. Yud is just following the grand tradition of all serially published writers, notably including one J K Rowling.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:32
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There's no way the italicized introduction was there from the start, but archive.org doesn't cache fanfiction.net, and the cache of hpmor.com only goes back to early 2012, with 70+ chapters.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:03
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Moddington posted:There's no way the italicized introduction was there from the start, but archive.org doesn't cache fanfiction.net, and the cache of hpmor.com only goes back to early 2012, with 70+ chapters. The story was started on the 28th of February 2010, according to FF.net. The italicized introduction was there, at the very latest, in June of the same year: ctrl-F "blood". (Also, please take a moment to appreciate the irony of the first HPMoR hate blog ending up being used, almost six years later, in defence of it.  )
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Jan 17, 2016 23:28
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Pavlov posted:Tank I think you're underestimating how easy it is to look back on earlier sections of your work and manufacture 'foreshadowing' by deciding to make off hand remarks suddenly plot important. Maybe I am. But I also think that people in this thread are overestimating how difficult it is to insert foreshadowing into a story if you know where the story is going. Several people now have come out of the woodwork and expressed disbelief that there's foreshadowing in this story, and that it must be a trick or fake somehow. Foreshadowing is a common literary device, guys, and it's not a complicated one. As I said in one of the my previous posts, it's not even the case that the foreshadowing is always good foreshadowing so you don't need to deny its presence on principle, which it seems like some of you are doing because you're afraid of giving Yud credit. Admitting that there's foreshadowing doesn't make the actual problems with this story any less apparent.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:16
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blastron posted:I don't buy that he was foreshadowing from the very first chapter. It really feels to me like he started the fiction out as some sort of "lol look how dumb the HP universe is, let's unravel its illogic" thing, and then when it took off he started to put some more effort into it. He probably did sit down at some point and figure out the actual details of the setting, but this wasn't at chapter one and it definitely involved the back-justification of earlier chapters. That bit at the end where Voldemort asks Harry if anyone thought a REAL 11-year old would act like he did at the start of the fic was such an obvious and obnoxious retcon to address the story's earlier faults that you really must start to question what other dumb things that made sense later were truly designed to make sense from the beginning. The twist that Quirrell isn't just a host for Voldemort, but is Voldemort was planned from a very early point, since it was mentioned in an early author's note (that was since amended). Harry being an actual copy of Voldemort, rather than a Horcrux doesn't feel like a retcon either to me; like the previous example it's an instance of Yud's tendency to take things UP TO ELEVEN because it's the only way he knows how to write. Also there's nothing wrong with open-ended foreshadowing / mining previously written stuff for setup. Breaking Bad is a famous example of the writers throwing in poo poo they had no idea how to resolve.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:31
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Quirrel being Voldemort, Harry being a copy of Voldemort, and Harry's special power being partial transfiguration were all planned from the beginning. Details definitely not so much, but those three major plot points never changed.
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Jan 18, 2016 05:16
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I guess I have a fair amount of empathy with Yud. I have a lot of problems in common with him, but I try to challenge my laziness, my aversion to challenge, and I certainly know I'm not smart. I have superficial knowledge of a wide variety of topics and can sound convincing, but if you sit me down and we start getting deep into apologetics or whatever, I'll start trying to refer you to actual experts rather than try to impress you. We're pretty much the same age, and while I went to college, it never worked out for many reasons, so our education is roughly equal. He definitely knows way more half-remembered science poo poo than I do. The main thing I have over Yud is about five solid years of regular therapy and a desire to improve myself. Maybe I should just stop all of that and start a scam charity/cult, write terrible fiction and smugly dismiss all criticism. It seems to work for a fair number of people, judging by earlier links in this thread. Being self-described as "monogamous with several submissive playmates" while keeping a straight face would be real hard, but I've done some theater work. I think I can hack it with practice.
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Jan 19, 2016 07:12
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Hey, did anyone ask for more Yud-fiction? Maybe of the shamelessly weeaboo kind?
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Jan 30, 2016 11:26
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The protagonist, a young woman, posted:Though I am a little worried. I’ve never gone more than a day or two without giving myself release. Even when I tried to deny myself for perverted reasons, my willpower failed. I hope that I can clear up this Wicked Emperor matter in a month, and not go insane with repressed desires before then.
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Jan 30, 2016 11:56
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You know, I thought "less didactic" would be a good thing. These four chapters just gave me an unfortunate aversion to the common fanfic use of ~ as a tone indicator when writing speech.
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Jan 30, 2016 12:15
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Did...did Yud just write a weeaboo format "novel" about a girl edging? E; I'm only basing that on the quoted bit above Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 12:24
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I looked at the Amazon page, which already has five star reviews.quote:Yudkowsky thought about trying to publish this book anonymously, as an alleged translation of a Japanese light novel whose original nobody would ever be able to find. He gave up when he realized he couldn't possibly stop people from figuring out that it was him.
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Jan 30, 2016 13:00
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Here's an audio version of one of those five-star reviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0B9Fc6LgMo
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Jan 30, 2016 13:23
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 remember your anime: red tidday UP, white tidday DOWN Scott Alexander review: no no you guys it's not loving terrible it's KNOWING SELF-PARODY edit: he's still trying to get the HPMOR fans to spam the Hugos divabot fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 14:45
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He won't even be in the top ten worst people trying to spam the Hugos this year. He's even a better writer than some of the Puppy trash that got nominated last time around. Would it be cruel to ask these guys' expert opinion on A Girl Corrupted by the Internet is the Summoned Hero?!?
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Jan 30, 2016 15:49
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chrisoya posted:He won't even be in the top ten worst people trying to spam the Hugos this year. He's even a better writer than some of the Puppy trash that got nominated last time around. dooo iiit
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Jan 30, 2016 15:51
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chrisoya posted:He won't even be in the top ten worst people trying to spam the Hugos this year. He's even a better writer than some of the Puppy trash that got nominated last time around. There's half-joking chat on post-rationalist Tumblr of a Rationalist Puppies slate. Fortunately they have people who can actually loving write and aren't doing fanfic, such as nostalgebraist (who isn't actually one of them, they just latched onto him) - everyone here should read The Northern Caves, it's pretty darn good and quite short.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:05
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chrisoya posted:Would it be cruel to ask these guys' expert opinion on A Girl Corrupted by the Internet is the Summoned Hero?!? If you don't I will.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:47
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Pounded In The Butt By My Own Girl with Red Tidday Up and White Tidday Down Corrupted by the Internet who is the Summoned Hero?! by Roko's Tinglisk
divabot fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 19:06
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