Eve Online 2016: Actually It's Called Eve-ophilia

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vyst: Aug 25, 2009

Zephyrine posted:

This is the good one

No.

# ? Jan 30, 2016 22:16

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 01:30

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

Zephyrine posted:

This is the good one

I dont have archives somebody hook me up :negative:

SMcD where you at buddy

# ? Jan 30, 2016 23:05

FruitNYogurtParfait: Mar 29, 2006; Sion lied. Deadtear died for our sins. #VengeanceForDeadtear
#PunGateNeverForget
#ModLivesMatter

That Works posted:

10 years and you people are still trying to out shitpost deadtear in the EVE thread.

Same

# ? Jan 30, 2016 23:10

Fergus: Apr 24, 2013

Well I went on the Space Violence suicide roam, and it was probably the coolest experience I've had in EVE if not all games yet.
There were carriers, dreadnoughts, tons of battleships, and my Atron.

# ? Jan 30, 2016 23:54

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Libluini posted:

Fair point, but discarding all of LowSec and by extension of his logic NPC-NullSec PvP as "theatre", was still rather ludicrously overblown. At that level of hyperbole he's basically just one step away from claiming all PvP as theatre without real stakes, since playing a video game is also a choice and you could always choose to not play EVE and not risk anything at all.

Yea, it is one step away. A step I didn't take. An important one, I think.

Lowsec PVP only risks the assets you undock in. Nullsec has the chance (For us, an amazingly low chance) of our assets being locked away from us if we lose the station. I'm not saying you can't lose poo poo in lowsec, just that it's poo poo that you're there and actively using.

Which was the point of my gambling analogy.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 00:00

YouTuber: Jul 31, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

CainFortea posted:

Yea, it is one step away. A step I didn't take. An important one, I think.

Lowsec PVP only risks the assets you undock in. Nullsec has the chance (For us, an amazingly low chance) of our assets being locked away from us if we lose the station. I'm not saying you can't lose poo poo in lowsec, just that it's poo poo that you're there and actively using.

Which was the point of my gambling analogy.

How exactly would you lose a NPC Nullsec station? He is entirely right that Lowsec and NPC 0.0 is just a sideshow unless a powerhouse group like Pandemic Legion set up there a pivot from it into the local regional powers.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 00:39

almighty: Mar 9, 2011

CainFortea posted:

Yea, it is one step away. A step I didn't take. An important one, I think.

Lowsec PVP only risks the assets you undock in. Nullsec has the chance (For us, an amazingly low chance) of our assets being locked away from us if we lose the station. I'm not saying you can't lose poo poo in lowsec, just that it's poo poo that you're there and actively using.

Which was the point of my gambling analogy.

There is a greater chance of a 747 crashing on our heads than an average line member in GSF getting locked out of his assets in Deklein due to an invasion. I'm not saying it can never happen, it's just that even if it seems likely to happen, there'd be ample warning precluding it, and plenty of opportunities to evacuate everything out.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 00:44

almighty: Mar 9, 2011

YouTuber posted:

How exactly would you lose a NPC Nullsec station? He is entirely right that Lowsec and NPC 0.0 is just a sideshow unless a powerhouse group like Pandemic Legion set up there a pivot from it into the local regional powers.

Last year, at some point, CCP was considering phasing out NPC stations among with other possible alternatives that were considering regarding what to do with NPC null after the citadels are implemented and transition from legacy outposts is dealt with. I'm not sure if they still are thinking about that at the moment though.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 00:46

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

DisgracelandUSA posted:

Probs gonna get posting cancer responding to you, but lemme explain why you and your idea is retarded.

Lets assume most nullsec people can make 60m isk an hour ratting. They face the constant fear of losing their ship from hot drops, cloaky people, roaming gangs, whatever.

Lets assume highsec makes between 40m and 120m an hour, with running L4s at the low end, and non autism incursions at the highend (this isn't including autism incursions, which bank up to 300m an hour, or blitzing L5s) (also, I have no idea how much running L4s competently makes). They face virtually 0 risk that is able to be prevented (clearing your killrights) or able to circumvented (dropping corp when wardecs happen). Even in the presence of gankers, simply watching D-Scan or your overview can save your rear end. I know this because I live in highsec, as G-Money pointed out.

If we double nullsec income, raising it to 120m, simply by increasing payout from rats in nullsec only, nullsec income is now at the upper bound of highsec income (barring the higher income things I'm not taking into account). They're equivalent for all intents and purposes.

But the risk difference still remains the same. You can make 120m an hour running incursions in regular T2 fit ships with virtually 0 risk*. Or you can rat in nullsec, and you're still subject to all the risk that comes with roaming gangs, cloaky campers, hot drops and thera holes. So why in the world would anyone choose nullsec over highsec? Sure you can afk the ratting, but that actually increases your risk. And you can (probably?) afk L4 missions as well. Ergo, we can't just buff nullsec by just throwing more carrots at nullsec; we need to start hitting highsec with the stick.

How do I know this? When everyone and their brother was loving with cloud ring, MiniLuv deployed to Lonetrek. I thought we were gonna pull giant fat whales filled with pvp loot, pve loot, big fat loving red kills. We did get a bunch of red kill (7-10 red freighters and JFs in 2 weeks), but every single one of them was empty. Still being a new-ish player, I didn't realize that people don't make money where they're deployed. They jump clone back to their nullsec home, they log on their WH ratter, they log on their incursion character. The issue of generating their money while deployed in a harsh, hostile environment never even came into the equation, because there were a hundred alternatives that provided better income streams with less risk.

As an extra course of sperg, you might ask why we didn't kill hostile logistics bringing supplies to the front line. That's because the route out of Jita to our corner of nullsec involves approximately 1 highsec system. Jita. Which you cyno off the undock of 4-4 from. JFs also need to be nerfed. 5LY range in highsec, no jumping out of highsec, something to that effect.

In summary, nerf everything.

*To date, I know of 4 forays into loving with incursions in the last year; each time they killed about 10b in ships, but were a shitstorm of hassle and basically unprofitable. The most effective ganks each cost about 2b isk, and required a spy in incursion comms.

A little more on this;

I've been reading up on threads from early in EVE history on this site. A lot of talk is about getting out into nullsec and getting the mad isk from belt rats. At the time, null was seen as a wild frontier where you could make a lot of isk if you could hack the risk. The mentality, and the mechanics seem to have changed so much since then. This was before wormholes, incursions, and mission blitzing. In many ways, Goons are an anomaly in that we actually live and use our space more than anybody else (and Provi is the only one that really comes close). Just check the indexes. It's pretty damning that people don't think that way as much anymore. Hell, the selling point of our renter programs these days isn't the isk (not really), its the supposed security that comes with having access to our intel channels and (maybe) under the protection of the Goon super umbrella. Honestly when you think about it, its not really surprising.

Jon Q Pubbie looks at his options and discovers the following;

60 million an hour in a drone boat in nullsec or 90 million an hour in a carrier where he could be dropped on at any time by whatever shitlers happen to be around. Maybe once in a while you get a faction spawn which gives you a blip in income from time to time.
60 to 90 million per hour doing highsec missions under the protection of concord where I might have to deal with suicide gankers or can looters (wardecs don't even rate a mention). He won't have to compete for sites. He gets the ease of highsec logistics.
120 to 250 million an hour doing highsec incursions depending on the competency of the FC and fits of the other members where I have concord, and an entire fleet to protect me and the most likely place to die is if he's dumb in transporting his incursion ships around highsec (maybe).
160 to 200 million per hour doing C3 wormhole sites. To do this reliably, Jon Q Pubbie needs to either live in a C3 or have a C3 static, and have to deal with POS bullshit. He has to deal with the semi random nature of wormhole logistics, do a lot of scanning, and accept the occasional loss to the cloaky proteus duo he didn't see coming.
200 million(?) FW Stealth Bomber mission blitzing. Bugger all investment in a stealth bomber that can do it, but has to deal with lowsec logistics and requires paying attention so as not to get dropped by other assholes.
??? lowsec level 5s. Requires capitals, theoretically possible to get dropped on. I have no idea of how this gets done efficiently.
300+ million (? Honestly haven't looked into how much this is worth right now) C5 wormholes. Good luck doing this for any length of time outside of the wormhole CFC network without getting your poo poo pushed in. So you either join them, rent from them, or ninja it and pray. Requires capitals, multiple characters, or friends, or both.
??? per hour moon goo. Hugely variable depending on where you are and what goo you're pulling. Requires dealing with POS (many of them) and the safety of those moons is a crapshoot outside of Goon space. In most cases, the most valuable moons will be held by alliances. Really only on the list for completions sake.

Mining/hauling/station trading/manufacturing/scamming/other: all possible but I'm bored of this already and I don't know or care what they're worth/income is super swingy and not realistically comparable/doesn't require flying and possibly being shot at.

So Jon Q looks at his options and realizes that the relative least amount of effort, most reliable, with the most amount of safety, with the easiest logistics, with a reasonable (but not the best) income is in highsec, doing incursions and then missions when he can't do that. If they want more money and can handle a bit more logistic hassle and risk they can go to lowsec or into a wormhole. Why on earth would he go to nullsec unless he had friends/community to hang out with there?

# ? Jan 31, 2016 01:38

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

darth cookie posted:

??? lowsec level 5s. Requires capitals, theoretically possible to get dropped on. I have no idea of how this gets done efficiently.

Doing it efficiently requires you to have multiple mission-pulling characters with high standings (quite easy once you've got the first one because you can just share standings gains from subsequent missions) so you can always have access to one of the blitzable missions. You're pretty safe from being tackled because the missions are in deadspace - people who want to gank you can't bridge on top of you, so as long as you stay aligned to a station or POS, you're virtually invulnerable; the worst that may happen is that the would-be gankers might camp your mission for a bit.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 01:50

Azuth0667: Sep 20, 2011; By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

I don't know if it's still there but you can see the nerf highsec megathread I had going for actual numbers about mission running. From what I remember highsec mission running was making 40% more than nullsec afk ratting and highsec incursions were around 70% more.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 01:50

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

YouTuber posted:

How exactly would you lose a NPC Nullsec station? He is entirely right that Lowsec and NPC 0.0 is just a sideshow unless a powerhouse group like Pandemic Legion set up there a pivot from it into the local regional powers.

You can't lose an NPC nullsec station.

quote:

There is a greater chance of a 747 crashing on our heads than an average line member in GSF getting locked out of his assets in Deklein due to an invasion. I'm not saying it can never happen, it's just that even if it seems likely to happen, there'd be ample warning precluding it, and plenty of opportunities to evacuate everything out.

Yes, I know. That's what I said. But we aren't the only nullsec alliances.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 01:55

Dalael: Oct 14, 2014; Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!

DisgracelandUSA & darth cookie posted:

Interesting regarding income

Its just so fuckin' ridiculous that it works out this way. :cripes:

This whole thing is why I just buy plex once in a while when I need ISK. Its too much :effort:

to try and get a reasonable income in this game, considering how boring income generation is. I already don't log in enough as it is, when I do I don't want to bother filling up my wallet.

I find that the price of Plex and the current amount you can make by selling one, is possibly the best way to go at it. I can afford 20$ once in a while for a plex. What I can't afford, is to scratch my eyeballs out and throw myself off a bridge because I need to shoot more rats.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 02:36

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

darth cookie posted:

So Jon Q looks at his options and realizes that the relative least amount of effort, most reliable, with the most amount of safety, with the easiest logistics, with a reasonable (but not the best) income is in highsec, doing incursions and then missions when he can't do that. If they want more money and can handle a bit more logistic hassle and risk they can go to lowsec or into a wormhole. Why on earth would he go to nullsec unless he had friends/community to hang out with there?

Nullsec income needs a buff but imo if its too big everyone will leave the lower class wormholes and that'd suck as it's already practically dead anyway

# ? Jan 31, 2016 02:41

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

I have a sneaking suspicion that once citadels come out there's going to be a resurgence in lower end wormholes, provided that they are less of a pain in the rear end to set up and maintain than POS (which is half the point). C2s and C1s will still be dead though (becuase even with Citadels they aren't worth the effort).

# ? Jan 31, 2016 02:45

YouTuber: Jul 31, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Getting locked out of a station was a huge deal to people in 2007. Who gives a gently caress now? Just show up once every 3 months and list the poo poo until it's gone. I have boatloads of poo poo in random loving stations in the south and southeast that I outright don't give a poo poo about. I spend most of my time in hostile space so I never managed to erect these massive hordes of "valuable" poo poo.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 03:39

Kimsemus: Dec 4, 2013; by Reene; Toilet Rascal

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:12

1001 Arabian dicks: Sep 16, 2013; EVE ONLINE IS MY ENTIRE PERSONALITY BECAUSE IM A FRIENDLESS SEMILITERATE LOSER WHO WILL PEDANTICALLY DEMAND PROOF FOR BASIC THINGS LIKE GRAVITY OR THE EXISTENCE OF SELF. ASK ME ABOUT CHEATING AT TARKOV BECAUSE, WELL, SEE ABOVE

Kimsemus posted:

ccp falcon is annoying and stupid, and a terrible poster both in and out of game.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:20

Worldshatter: May 7, 2015; PEPSI for TV-GAME

Kimsemus posted:

lol

At least it's good to see CCP are returning to form, we had a worrying lack of :ccp:

decisions for a while there

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:30

FruitNYogurtParfait: Mar 29, 2006; Sion lied. Deadtear died for our sins. #VengeanceForDeadtear
#PunGateNeverForget
#ModLivesMatter

Kimsemus posted:

verone shouldnt be allowed to talk to people he's a bigger prick than me

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:31

Alkabob: May 31, 2011; I would like to speak to the manager about the socialists, please

So has any other site been labeled a "news site" yet?

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:39

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

What are mitten's panties in a knot over with the CSM? That post has no context.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:39

brand engager: Mar 23, 2011

CainFortea posted:

What are mitten's panties in a knot over with the CSM? That post has no context.

Do you live under a rock? He's been making GBS threads himself in slack and everywhere else over the white paper changes.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:43

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Is slack that lovely chat client version of reddit thing?

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:44

Blazing Zero: Sep 7, 2012; *sigh* sure. it's a weed joke

CainFortea posted:

Is slack that lovely chat client version of reddit thing?

its more like irc and like reddit, they are both good

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:46

Worldshatter: May 7, 2015; PEPSI for TV-GAME

CainFortea posted:

What are mitten's panties in a knot over with the CSM? That post has no context.

CCP made a change to the CSM whitepaper which can be boiled down to a crudely drawn crayon scribbling of "no sionz"

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:47

gwrtheyrn: Oct 21, 2010; AYYYE DEEEEE DUBBALYOO DA-NYAAAAAH!

"Information Security" because the csm is an entity that can totally be trusted not to leak everything that they're told

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:55

FruitNYogurtParfait: Mar 29, 2006; Sion lied. Deadtear died for our sins. #VengeanceForDeadtear
#PunGateNeverForget
#ModLivesMatter

CainFortea posted:

Is slack that lovely chat client version of reddit thing?

it's like the java web client version of irc, it's real bad

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:59

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

I just cant get outraged over my video games councils magna carta

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:01

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

Also Falcon is engaged to Leeloo so hes honourbound to defend his girl and her arbitrary decisions

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:02

Syndic Thrass: Nov 10, 2011

You can run slack as xmpp and thus use our smilie pack and I recommend doing so because it doesn't lag nearly as bad

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:08

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Syndic Thrass posted:

You can run slack as xmpp and thus use our smilie pack and I recommend doing so because it doesn't lag nearly as bad

we're slowly infecting their emotes with ours

i got :yikes:

added today :yayclod:

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:28

ullerrm: Dec 31, 2012; Oh, the network slogan is true -- "watch FOX and be damned for all eternity!"

In case you missed it, DBRB tried Kerbal Space Program for the first time on stream. I edited together a little compilation of explosions, with some music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCkesYLRzs&hd=1

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:32

Dalael: Oct 14, 2014; Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!

ullerrm posted:

In case you missed it, DBRB tried Kerbal Space Program for the first time on stream. I edited together a little compilation of explosions, with some music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCkesYLRzs&hd=1

Kerbal Space Program, the game EVE could/should have been.
Now this I'll watch.

E1: Holy poo poo, first 50 seconds are already hilarious. His face as his entire plane just falls apart. Priceless.

E2: Remind me not to fly on air DBRB.

E3: :cripes:

Boat, you gotta click this link and watch these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d74m3qThOoU. Please, watching you build all of those over-engineered designs is funny as hell, but now I'm starting to feel bad for you.

Dalael fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jan 31, 2016

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:36

Xolve: Oct 12, 2012; Well, shoot! We ain't come this far just to dump this thing in the drink. What's the nearest target opportunity?

ullerrm posted:

In case you missed it, DBRB tried Kerbal Space Program for the first time on stream. I edited together a little compilation of explosions, with some music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCkesYLRzs&hd=1

I like how his approach to launching ships into orbit is almost exactly the same as his approach to FCing large fleet fights.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 06:01

Fix Lag: Sep 8, 2011; There's a sale at Penny's!

Xolve posted:

I like how his approach to launching ships into orbit is almost exactly the same as his approach to FCing large fleet fights.

if you launched you're dead

# ? Jan 31, 2016 06:07

FruitNYogurtParfait: Mar 29, 2006; Sion lied. Deadtear died for our sins. #VengeanceForDeadtear
#PunGateNeverForget
#ModLivesMatter

Xolve posted:

I like how his approach to launching ships into orbit is almost exactly the same as his approach to FCing large fleet fights.

is Wrong really an approach

# ? Jan 31, 2016 06:07

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

ullerrm posted:

In case you missed it, DBRB tried Kerbal Space Program for the first time on stream. I edited together a little compilation of explosions, with some music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCkesYLRzs&hd=1

That was 8 minutes of my time well spent. Thank you.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 06:12

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

FruitNYogurtParfait posted:

is Wrong really an approach

It's more of an anti-pattern, really.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 06:23

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 01:30

Rhymenoserous: May 23, 2008

ullerrm posted:

In case you missed it, DBRB tried Kerbal Space Program for the first time on stream. I edited together a little compilation of explosions, with some music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCkesYLRzs&hd=1

So we've found another space game he's horrible at that goons follow. Great.

LMAO "We're still in a good orbit" (Meanwhile the orbit intersects kerbin).

Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Jan 31, 2016

# ? Jan 31, 2016 06:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Eve Online 2016: Actually It's Called Eve-ophilia

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