Dark Souls II - I'll remember you forever, Lucille.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dark Souls II - I'll remember you forever, Lucille.

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Go with Magic. Magic/Fire/Lightning/Dark reduce the physical damage and scaling, but add elemental damage and scaling of the appropriate kind. You can even infuse a weapon that already has some element, in which case you either increase the same element (if you're infusing with a preexisting element) or instead add an additional element (if you're infusing with a different element). Enchanted, in contrast, ~~makes all the damage physical,~~* slashes standard physical scaling, and adds a small amount of magic-based scaling that also goes to physical damage. Enchanted is only useful on a handful of occasions, when the base scaling on the weapon sucks and when it's not better to make it either Raw (for high base damage) or Mundane (for low base damage where the resultant scaling is actually pretty good) instead. Don't use it unless you've already verified that you know what you're doing.

*This only applies to the Moonlight Greatsword, which normally deals magic damage with no physical component. In fact, the MLGS is one of the few weapons for which Enchanted might be good, because the scaling isn't poo poo (it's the same as at base, actually) and because you're transforming the damage into a component that only gets subtracted from (physical) rather than having a fractional multiplier applied (elemental). And even then I would still want to test it out.

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 31, 2016

# ? Jan 31, 2016 02:10

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# ? May 16, 2024 15:36

FactsAreUseless: Feb 16, 2011

Robot Randy posted:

This is what happens when the thread title gets changed

I dunno, sounds accurate to me.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 02:11

marshmallow creep: Dec 10, 2008; I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Infusing something like the Crescent Axe (physical/magic) with Fire would make the numbers bigger on the stat screen, but actually reduce the damage output because it's split against multiple defenses, yeah?

# ? Jan 31, 2016 02:40

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

Google Butt posted:

i lost 30k souls to that suicide bomber thing after that boss fight in the hallway before the bonfire in the lost bastille

it severely hurt my butt

Don't worry about 30k souls at that point, you can grind them back really fast. I agree on the bomber enemies, gently caress them but you'll hate them more in the future...

# ? Jan 31, 2016 03:34

marshmallow creep: Dec 10, 2008; I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

They seem much more fragile than I remember. A +3 light crossbow will one shot them from a safe distance, so if you know where they are or see them coming, you're pretty much safe. That guy is just a dick because you can hear him but can't see him, so you take the hallway slow to be ready for him, and then he blows up when you get close.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 03:38

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Lotish posted:

Infusing something like the Crescent Axe (physical/magic) with Fire would make the numbers bigger on the stat screen, but actually reduce the damage output because it's split against multiple defenses, yeah?

Most likely, but not for the reason you think. Like I referenced above, the current theory about how DS2 models damage resistances is fairly simple, definitely more so than DS1. (DS1 took both attack and defense and shoved them into a rational function for...reasons.) Basically, any time you deal physical damage, some factor proportional to the appropriate defense (vs. Strike/Slash/Thrust) is simply subtracted from the damage. Elemental damage, in contrast, is checked by resistance. And instead of just subtracting some number, resistance applies a fractional multiplier instead. Bosses in particular have a minimum 15% reduction to all elemental damage, and frequently will go higher than that. (Luckily for players, this applies both ways. If you need to not care about an enemy that predominantly uses one element in their damage, you can stack resistance to that element and laugh at them.*)

Anyway, when you infuse an elemental weapon such as the Crescent Axe or whatever with an additional element, the existing types of damage and their scaling are reduced - which includes physical damage. And because elemental damage scales worse than physical damage, the increased AR hides the fact that you're trading some physical damage (that doesn't get a divisor slapped on it) for elemental damage (which does get the divisor slapped on it). Additionally, if you're going for a weapon with elemental damage you frequently want to boost one element as much as you can. Weapon buffs are now dependent on the weapon's stats themselves, such that the formula usually adds a bit of elemental damage and then slaps a multiplier (up to 1.25 or 1.3) on that whole business to give you your new (temporary) elemental damage value. Thus, keeping your unbuffed magic damage on a weapon high also makes the increase from buffing even higher, while decreasing the unbuffed magic damage also lowers the increase from buffing.

Hopefully that's not too much of a wall of text?

Also, after a bit of searching I managed to determine the handful of weapons for which Enchanted might (might!) do something of worth. As always, test things out beforehand because Enchanted is very frequently either a trap or inferior to Raw/Mundane.

The Moonlight Greatsword's scaling values appear to be identical in either case, so if you need to make it physical it could work. (Normally it can't be buffed, but there's one buff that applies +50 physical damage to all weapon ARs that gets around that limitation.) Unfortunately the R2 deals no damage if you do this.
The Curved Nil Greatsword, surprisingly, gets A scaling with Magic if you use Enchanted. Unfortunately, that's at the cost of missing out on the S scaling with either Strength (uninfused) or your choice of element (with a standard infusion). Plus its real benefit is that it also has scaling based on your NG+ value, so even the temporary benefit from not caring about Strength/Dexterity scaling by infusing it diminishes in relative value once you start hitting the soft caps at higher difficulties.
The Watcher Greatsword's scaling improves slightly overall, though in general its infused scaling is weird. Apparently the base magic damage decreases if you infuse it with Fire/Lightning/Dark/Poison/Bleed but the magic scaling increases.
The Bone Fist gets S scaling with Magic if you use Enchanted. But infusing it with any element will also get you S scaling with that element, and leaving it alone instead gets you S scaling with Strength.
The Twin-Headed Greatbow gets A scaling with Magic when Enchanted. But considering that it requires 45 Strength to wield and has S scaling with Strength when uninfused, adding the infusion is not worth it.
Crossbows gain only C scaling with Magic (or D with the Shield Crossbow) when Enchanted, but by default a crossbow has no scaling to start out with. Additionally, their base damage isn't quite high enough to make Raw viable, and all crossbows suffer a massive penalty to base damage when infused with Mundane.

*Most of us are familiar with Ancient Dragon or Darklurker, but just recently I found out that when the Smelter Demon lights his sword on fire, he doesn't add elemental damage to his sword swipes. Instead he outright replaces the physical damage with elemental damage, such that a resistance-stacked character will take far less damage as the battle progresses.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 03:44

Google Butt: Oct 4, 2005; Xenology is an unnatural mixture of science fiction and formal logic. At its core is a flawed assumption...

that an alien race would be psychologically human.

Lotish posted:

They seem much more fragile than I remember. A +3 light crossbow will one shot them from a safe distance, so if you know where they are or see them coming, you're pretty much safe. That guy is just a dick because you can hear him but can't see him, so you take the hallway slow to be ready for him, and then he blows up when you get close.

it was that one that in the cell right before the room with a bonfire, I was checking the cells along that hallway for some loot and rip. Never encountered that enemy before, whoever put that there is a dick

# ? Jan 31, 2016 03:44

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

I suspect your hatred for those particular enemies and their even more assholish cousins is only beginning. Their placement in later levels is downright sadistic.

In other news, I think I want to marry the drakeblood greatsword. I seem to remember this thing sucking, or at least pre-sotfs I found it and thought the visual design to be outstanding, but the weapon itself to be crap. But holy poo poo does that thing hit hard. 140 counter damage, takes infusion beautifully, very low stamina consumption and benefits from two clutch rings. Completely tricked out with rings, buffs and infusion, I just hit a sanctum soldier for 1200 damage with a 2HR2. And those R2s come out really fast if combo-ed in after running or rolling attacks. I always love it when a weapon that looks amazing is also actually amazing to use.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 04:53

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

gently caress the Ruin Sentinel room in Drangelic Castle. Must have lost 100k souls altogether there.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:28

marshmallow creep: Dec 10, 2008; I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Many a co-op adventure has started and ended in that room.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:29

Orv: May 4, 2011

There's a Twitch archive (maybe it's dead by now) somewhere on these old internets of some guy trying to get fancy by fighting all three of the big Ruin Sentinels and getting triple Captain America'd, and I always laughed at him until I got the same treatment in Drangelic.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 05:33

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

I just got past that room, and I'll be glad to never go in there again.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 07:34

RyokoTK: Feb 12, 2012; I am cool.

My favorite part about that fuckin' dumpster fire sentinel room is that the doors stay open if you die, but the sentinels all respawn. So if you methodically open one door at a time, kill off the sentinels piecemeal, and then get killed by something else, the next time you get to fight all three at once! And the stupid stone soldier mooks as well! :shepface:

# ? Jan 31, 2016 07:37

spit on my clit: Jul 19, 2015; by Cyrano4747

I prefer the Ruin Sentinel room to all of Shrine of Amana

# ? Jan 31, 2016 07:37

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Shrine of Amana is up next so I'm excited for that :unsmigghh:

TBF, I only died once in there and didn't lose any souls once I figured out that Sentinels were in the locked rooms. It's basically an exercise in patience and managing aggro once you pop the doors, and you'll only have to fight one Sentinel and 3 soldiers to get to the rest of the castle if you don't move too much.

On that note, I got invaded twice in my run through Drangleic Castle. Kudos to both of them for being pretty cool about it, especially the first dude that backed off when soldiers aggroed on me. He healed himself and let me do the same after I fought them off, though I hope he didn't mind when I would not let him go back for a second heal because I had a dungeon to complete :cheeky:

# ? Jan 31, 2016 07:50

double nine: Aug 8, 2013

What are the appropriate levels to start the various dlc's at?

# ? Jan 31, 2016 13:08

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

double nine posted:

What are the appropriate levels to start the various dlc's at?

Enter DLC
Do you get your poo poo kicked in?
No? You are the appropriate level.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 13:10

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

Whenever, dogg. Just have a +10 weapon and you should be good to go for it.

It's probably recommended that you do them after you get the Ashen Mist Heart, but it's thrilling and cool to do them early.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 13:10

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Rushing Shulva for Flynn's ring and its super cool dex weapons isn't that hard. It's totally doable with a +5 or +6 rapier after unlocking Macduff. I find it harder to actually get there (platforming hell, then the black gulch and I suck at the Rotten) than it is to clear the early parts of Shulva.

# ? Jan 31, 2016 14:37

Andrigaar: Dec 12, 2003; Saint of Killers

I think I just wasted ~2 hours of my life over the past day and night trying to kill Vendrick and the Ancient Dragon. Busting out calc.exe, I don't think I have enough spells at my current damage level to actually kill them even if all of the spells hit. This is sorta stupid.

On another note, I think it took me ~14 hours according to the game clock to go from start to unlocking the Throne of Want with this sorcerer-only build. That was pretty cool. Skipped all of Pharros and the Ruin Sentinels, didn't sight-see much and haven't touched the DLC yet or am I sure I want to.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 00:42

spit on my clit: Jul 19, 2015; by Cyrano4747

Please tell me there is a mod that changes the tune that plays when you die to this

# ? Feb 1, 2016 02:19

Zoph: Sep 12, 2005

I'm trying to grind up Sunlight Medals to reach Rank 3, and I'm trying to figure out where the best place to go co-oping with a soul memory of 6.4 million. Any tips?

# ? Feb 1, 2016 04:55

Andrigaar: Dec 12, 2003; Saint of Killers

BillmasterCozb posted:

Please tell me there is a mod that changes the tune that plays when you die to this

More importantly you reminded me of an old game I've been meaning to play for years... if I can find a copy anywhere that is.

Zophar's Domain posted:

I'm trying to grind up Sunlight Medals to reach Rank 3, and I'm trying to figure out where the best place to go co-oping with a soul memory of 6.4 million. Any tips?

Orange boxes around the travel locations are the busiest at your SM range. When my melee guy was ~6mil I got most of my co-op hits at the bonfire before Throne of Want and the starting bonfires for the DLC areas. Wiki says a white soapstone will let you help down to 2.5mil SM.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 05:15

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Zophar posted:

I'm trying to grind up Sunlight Medals to reach Rank 3, and I'm trying to figure out where the best place to go co-oping with a soul memory of 6.4 million. Any tips?

I'm at about 4.3 million, so a good bit lower, but am having decent luck getting summoned for burnt ivory king. I was getting summoned for Fume Knight with acceptable regularity, but people would just die pretty much instantly. Ivory king is fairly easy as long as the host went and got all the knights. It is a pain to chase him down, though, when he's hopping around the battlefield like mad switching between targets. Putting the sign in Drangleic castle had too many idiots rushing right into the middle of the statue room, or summoning me for the pursuers and then black crystaling me out.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 08:11

Soho Joe: Aug 11, 2006; the torment of existence
weighed against
the horror of nonbeing; Nap Ghost

I like the Long Sword, because not only is it available in less than an hour if you have any clue, it is also a totes top tier weapon in every situation.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 10:01

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

Google Butt posted:

i lost 30k souls to that suicide bomber thing after that boss fight in the hallway before the bonfire in the lost bastille

it severely hurt my butt

I got hit by the same dude, though I didn't die I was now super paranoid whenever I heard the noise those guys make.

Finished Sinner's Rise and was that place just a boss? I feel like I missed something.

No idea where to go next so I went to the shaded woods and messed around with Hanzo Steel and somehow made it to the second bonfire.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 10:38

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

The first two bonfires in Shaded Woods are rather close, it's the run to the 3rd one that's gonna gently caress you up.

Sinner's Rise is basically a boss fight and a couple locked doors you need a key for, yeah.

As far as progression goes, try going from Majula to Heide's again, and don't forget there's always the giant hole in the ground in Majula if you're feeling brave/have appropriate equipment.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 11:08

Charles Bukowski: Aug 26, 2003; Taskmaster 2023 Second Place Winner; Grimey Drawer

Anyone else find they just get much better at the game when they aren't using a shield? Everything is faster, more dynamic and aggressive without hiding behind one. Really learning about i-frames and what you can pull off is so great.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 11:55

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

I have never used a shield or parried in SotFS because I played it on mouse/keyboard and thus have no clue what buttons to use for those but I did notice everything just went way smoother than turtling.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 11:57

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Block and dodge, man. Why limit yourself? Enemies have a selection of attacks to choose from, so mix up your defenses in return.

For example, you can dodge drat near everything Pursuer can throw at you, but having a shield in case you can't roll away from his quick sweep makes things a lot easier to deal with.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 12:03

Ekster: Jul 18, 2013

Shields get in the way of two-handing the biggest weapon you can find.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 12:10

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Even if you don't have the strength to one-hand your weapon, carrying a shield for certain fights, especially against multiple enemies where it's hard to get an opportunity to attack, makes a big difference. That said, learning to play without one will definitely make you better at the game.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 12:22

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

Ekster posted:

Shields get in the way of two-handing the biggest weapon you can find.

Not really. I spent a whole playthrough with the buckler at my back and two handing a claymore. The buckler does a great service against the pursuer and a lot of enemies.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 12:24

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

"I died 50 times against the NG+ Chariot trying to get the Ring because using a shield is for scrubs, man!!!" is like the wrongest philosophy to have. There's nothing dirty about using a shield if it's literally perfect for a given situation. You can't be both "feh, shields suck anyway, much worse than in DS1" and "but in this case, it makes the game waaay to easy".

There's nothing cooler than not two-handing, but powerstancing to gigantic clubs, but gently caress if I'm not going to parry the Greatsword red phantom superbastard every time because it's just so, so much less of a headache.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 12:58

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

Note I don't actually have anything against shields I'm just way too lazy to rebind my keys to use one(I guess you could call me a controller elitist instead) so I'm going Mace+Wand with Fire Longsword/MLGS as a backup for switching.

Is there a weapon that works good for blocking now that I think of it? Other than the enchanted MLGS blocking all magic I think?

# ? Feb 1, 2016 13:03

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

HGH posted:

Is there a weapon that works good for blocking now that I think of it? Other than the enchanted MLGS blocking all magic I think?

Zweihander's surprisingly decent at blocking, as long as you don't try to facetank an entire combo or whatever.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 13:07

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

HGH posted:

As far as progression goes, try going from Majula to Heide's again, and don't forget there's always the giant hole in the ground in Majula if you're feeling brave/have appropriate equipment.

Oh cool let me just...

I think I need something to break my fall.

I've been playing the game so far without a build in mind other then to try all the weapons. Like so far most weapons are effective, just some more then others (Craftsman's Hammer is weirdly powerful).

# ? Feb 1, 2016 13:09

Selenephos: Jul 9, 2010

Golden Goat posted:

Oh cool let me just...

I think I need something to break my fall.

I've been playing the game so far without a build in mind other then to try all the weapons. Like so far most weapons are effective, just some more then others (Craftsman's Hammer is weirdly powerful).

That always bugged me since it looks like you should be able to make the drop and I'm pretty sure you can survive falls which are much deeper than that too.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 13:15

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

I think they changed falling damage to be a fixed value in DS2.

Anyway it's a clear sign to not visit that place til a bit later so it's grand.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 13:17

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# ? May 16, 2024 15:36

FactsAreUseless: Feb 16, 2011

Doesn't someone in Majula sell a ring that reduces fall damage? It's expensive but I remember seeing it during the little bit of the game I played.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 13:18

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