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Solice Kirsk posted:Considering the show will be over before the next book even comes out I'm going to hold it as canon and whatever gurm writes afterwards is just his silly little fanfic about the popular HBO series. Why do you care about something being canon? This sounds like some sort of passive aggressive "hey GRRM if you're reading this you're a big dummy".
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Jan 29, 2016 19:40
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computer parts posted:Why do you care about something being canon? I assure you there is nothing passive about me calling gurm a big dummy. Or a poo poo dicked fat gently caress that deserves all the worst things in the world to happen to him and those he loves because he won't finish writing some books I kinda sorta used to like.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:24
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Solice Kirsk posted:I assure you there is nothing passive about me calling gurm a big dummy. Or a poo poo dicked fat gently caress that deserves all the worst things in the world to happen to him and those he loves because he won't finish writing some books I kinda sorta used to like. GOT SPOILER Thread.txt
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Jan 29, 2016 20:28
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https://youtu.be/lle4t4o8EDk
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Jan 29, 2016 21:32
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Solice Kirsk posted:I assure you there is nothing passive about me calling gurm a big dummy. Or a poo poo dicked fat gently caress that deserves all the worst things in the world to happen to him and those he loves because he won't finish writing some books I kinda sorta used to like. you're pathetic
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Jan 30, 2016 23:49
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Austrian mook posted:you're pathetic As the guy who's favorite book is AFFC, you are the resident expert on pathetic.
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Jan 31, 2016 00:52
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counterfeitsaint posted:As the guy who's favorite book is AFFC, you are the resident expert on pathetic. Why does my personal, subjective opinion bother you so much? What do you have against Feast for Crows?
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Jan 31, 2016 01:06
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Other than a few of the Brienne filler chapters AFFC was p. good for the most part.
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Jan 31, 2016 01:11
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Ya, thw Brienne plot goes on for too long but theres some truly excellent stuff there
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Jan 31, 2016 01:18
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Austrian mook posted:Why does my personal, subjective opinion bother you so much? What do you have against Feast for Crows? It is a garbage book that is almost universally agreed as the worst one of the series. The only thing that 'bothers' me is that you call D&D literal war criminals while holding GRRM up to be this astounding, flawless writer. The reality is they both produce bloated garbage, and have for awhile now. Also whenever you're around you have to respond to everyone, and do it separately, so every other post in tv thread is you being terrible. Why aren't you posting in the bad thread instead since you clearly prefer the books so much?
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Jan 31, 2016 01:29
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Where are you getting it being universally agreed on as the worst? Hes among the most accomplished and successful authors ever, none of his books are close to bad. And hey, theres no tv to talk about genius
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Jan 31, 2016 01:39
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Austrian mook posted:Where are you getting it being universally agreed on as the worst? Hes among the most accomplished and successful authors ever, none of his books are close to bad. And hey, theres no tv to talk about genius Counterpoint: books 4 and 5. If the first three has between written to that quality we wouldn't be here giving a poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:45
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They're good books though.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:48
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Steve2911 posted:They're good books though. They are good, but meandering. I had the same issue with Wizard and Glass when I read through it, for anyone else who's read The Dark Tower series. I really enjoyed the two books on re-reads, but they're interesting sidestories that flesh out the characters and world, but don't move the actual plot forward very much. Wizard and Glass was especially bad for this, because 75% of the book was literally a flashback story, and the main group is literally sitting around a campfire listening to it. The first time through, I loving hated them both, because I kept wanting more of the main plot and couldn't give a poo poo about Shagwell the evil clown or whatever. Unfortunately, whereas I've read the entire Dark Tower series and can enjoy Wizard and Glass for what it is -- fairly important backstory, and an interesting story in and of itself -- the ASoIaF series still isn't loving done, so as of right now it just looks like Gurm losing the thread and getting bogged down in garbage like Shagwell and Penny the dwarf.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:02
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*westeros, in a few years' time* summer's coming!!!
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Jan 31, 2016 17:15
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I think part of the reason that the plot for 4 and 5 seems less "there" is because quite a bit of this stuff was supposed to be backstory after the time jump, but he realized if he did that we'd just be flashbacking to much of what happened in 4 and 5 anyway, so that's why he changed his mind and actually wrote the potential flashbacks as books in their own right and gave up on the time jump.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:45
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FuhrerHat posted:*westeros, in a few years' time* Game of Thrones 2: Hot Summer Knights
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Jan 31, 2016 18:26
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Ugly John posted:Counterpoint: books 4 and 5. If the first three has between written to that quality we wouldn't be here giving a poo poo. Book 2 is just as meandering, and lots of Book 3 is too (especially all of the Arya poo poo).
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Jan 31, 2016 18:28
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I feel like in terms of skill Crows is up there with the first three but content wise it's kind of just there, the opposite is true of 5. There's lots of stuff happening but the skill has taken a nose dive. There's severe disconnect between the chapters that were written right before the book went to print and the ones that were written back for Crows. It's very jarring.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:57
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computer parts posted:Book 2 is just as meandering, and lots of Book 3 is too (especially all of the Arya poo poo). Nah, not really. They meander in different ways. The first three books are relatively solid in their overarching story. They meander here and there because not every storyline within the overall story is going to be solid. The last two books are just kind of poo poo in the overarching story, which means that, depending on how much that bothers you, the whole thing might just seem insanely boring (or just parts). When people talk about the last two books positively they often just talk about individual storylines (because those can still be decent), but you don't hear a lot of people saying that the juggling of the storylines and how they all tie together to form one big story is done amazingly or anything. Whereas you can definitely say that about the first and third book.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:51
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Pedro De Heredia posted:When people talk about the last two books positively they often just talk about individual storylines (because those can still be decent), but you don't hear a lot of people saying that the juggling of the storylines and how they all tie together to form one big story is done amazingly or anything. Whereas you can definitely say that about the first and third book. First book sure, because everyone's more or less contiguous (or at least it's King's Landing, Winterfell, The Wall, Dany, and three of those began at Winterfell anyway). By book 3 you have Arya off in the middle of nowhere, Bran & Rickon off in the middle of nowhere, Jaime and Brienne in the middle of nowhere, Jon is sort of in the middle of nowhere, Sansa's still at King's Landing but she disappears for a while, and Cat is stuck in a tower for half of the book before dying. I won't even mention Dany because she's always off doing her own thing. Tywin is sort of a unifying force for Cat, Arya and King's Landing stuff but only very tangentially for Arya. Which makes sense, because the whole point of the book is how the nobles down south don't care about anything but their own fiefdom.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:41
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Arya's plot in book 3 is really good though.
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Feb 1, 2016 01:28
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The first half of ASOS bored me to tears, I don't really know why but it did. I actually got so bored I quit reading 3 chapters before the Red Wedding  Needless to say, picking it back up was a bit of a  moment, except with a book instead of a TV
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Feb 1, 2016 11:32
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webmeister posted:Needless to say, picking it back up was a bit of a :asoiaf: moment, except with a book instead of a TV I urge you to pause and ponder what that smiley specifically references.
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Feb 1, 2016 11:40
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webmeister posted:The first half of ASOS bored me to tears, I don't really know why but it did. I actually got so bored I quit reading 3 chapters before the Red Wedding I think most people had a similar reaction, as with the end of Ned Stark and maybe even the golden crown. A lot of the negative reaction to the last two books, short of GRRM taking his sweet time, is how long and plodding and frankly unsurprising everything has been. We signed up for and got  
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Feb 1, 2016 12:27
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In Gurm's defense, he did kill off the main character in book 5, which would have been a pretty holy gently caress moment if anyone anywhere believed he was actually dead for good.
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Feb 1, 2016 12:45
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If he hadn't thrown in a bunch of unnecessary fakeout deaths, maybe somebody out there would've taken Jon's death seriously.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:29
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Kajeesus posted:In Gurm's defense, he did kill off the main character in book 5, which would have been a pretty holy gently caress moment if anyone anywhere believed he was actually dead for good. Everything would have been fine in the last book if the climaxes of both major stories weren't cut out. It's a whole book (and 6 years of waiting) of build up and then it ends. With some editing and the removal of some boring unnecessary chapters (Most of Tyrion's in that book, Quintyn, Jon Connington, etc) and keeping at least one of the battles in, I think it could have been seen as the same quality as the first three.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:59
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Kajeesus posted:In Gurm's defense, he did kill off the main character in book 5, which would have been a pretty holy gently caress moment if anyone anywhere believed he was actually dead for good. He didn't kill Penny...
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Feb 1, 2016 19:43
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computer parts posted:First book sure, because everyone's more or less contiguous (or at least it's King's Landing, Winterfell, The Wall, Dany, and three of those began at Winterfell anyway). In the third book, the general story of "a group of factions are fighting to take control of the Iron Throne" is still true, still has momentum, and can still be used to divide characters into factions (The Starks, The Lannisters). Most of the characters still tie to this at least emotionally (we expect them to meet up, we expect them to influence each other's plots, we expect a more traditional narrative arc). And some of them do meet up (Jamie gets back to King's Landing). That structure and conflict are largely gone now that the Lannisters as a faction don't exist in the same way, the Starks as a faction don't even really exist, and the fight for the throne is largely meaningless.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:10
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Pedro De Heredia posted:In the third book, the general story of "a group of factions are fighting to take control of the Iron Throne" is still true, still has momentum, and can still be used to divide characters into factions (The Starks, The Lannisters). Most of the characters still tie to this at least emotionally (we expect them to meet up, we expect them to influence each other's plots, we expect a more traditional narrative arc). And some of them do meet up (Jamie gets back to King's Landing). That was always the point of the series though. The houses are so vain and selfish that they'll expend all of their resources and leave the continent in a terrible state, making them woefully unprepared when real problems start occurring. The war of the five kings was always a distraction. The series is called A Song of Ice and Fire rather than Game of Thrones for a reason.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:17
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Steve2911 posted:The series is called A Song of Ice and Fire rather than Game of Thrones for a reason. Um... about that.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:20
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Steve2911 posted:That was always the point of the series though. The houses are so vain and selfish that they'll expend all of their resources and leave the continent in a terrible state, making them woefully unprepared when real problems start occurring. Furthermore, much of books 4 and 5 are about the aftermath of the war, which is why one of them is called A Feast for Crows. They're very deliberately meant to be a capstone on the war that served as the main storyline of the first three books, showing the opportunistic scrambling to exploit what's been left in the aftermath and also demonstrating that the victors and the losers alike have been irrevocably changed, most for the worse, by this ordeal.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:00
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Steve2911 posted:He didn't kill Penny... I forgot about so many of the secondary bullshit side characters that mercifully didn't make it to the screen. No excuse for not getting Strong Belwas, though. I realised that my appreciation for this show is like Maddox/The Best Page In The Universe circa fifteen years ago- first entertained, then waiting for each update, then forgetting about it, then actively savaging the obvious faults as my powers of reasoning and cognition mature and develop. But rather than a gimmick that's worn thin it's something which is actively declining in quality.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:13
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Beeez posted:Furthermore, much of books 4 and 5 are about the aftermath of the war, which is why one of them is called A Feast for Crows. They're very deliberately meant to be a capstone on the war that served as the main storyline of the first three books, showing the opportunistic scrambling to exploit what's been left in the aftermath and also demonstrating that the victors and the losers alike have been irrevocably changed, most for the worse, by this ordeal. I find the last two books are greatly improved if you just skip a bunch of chapters. I skipped Brienne's entire POV in AFFC and boom, she's back in Jaime's in ADWD. Fully caught up and if you actually read it you can attest I missed exactly butt gently caress all.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:15
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The last two books are really good provided you ignore most of them, and don't mind the lack of a climax, BUT OTHER THAN THAT THEY'RE REALLY GOOD GUYS.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:02
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Honestly it would have been fine if the Winterfell story line had been concluded and its next caretaker (Jon or Stannis) had been installed by the end of book 5. If Martin had cut the poo poo it could have been a repeat of the Blackwater that tied up the story lines for Theon, Stannis, Jon, the Boltons and finally given the Starks (or at least a Stark ally) a 'good' ending for the books instead of just a repeat of 'BAD THINGS HAPPEN WHEN YER A GOOD GUY'. Dany's story line made for an epic cliff hanger that people don't appreciate because nothing in the book was loving finished. It also would have been nice to get a whole extra chapter from Jaime/Brienne where they meet Stoneheart, or see results from the Brotherhoods insurrection against the Lannisters and Freys. It's not even that 4 & 5 are half books, or whatever, it's that they're 80% books that just end with no catharsis or somewhere for the story's momentum to finish. Hell, book 5 could have been a really hopeful book if the Boltons were decimated and the Freys and Lannisters started feeling a real squeeze in the Riverlands. It would have been a breath of fresh air. I almost think if a creative type truly wants to produce a master piece he needs to publish only after the entire thing is written and done with. The moment people hear praise like 'the American Tolkein' or 'most popular TV show of all time' it immediately goes to their heads and convinces them of their own greatness and, thus, ensures their fall from grace.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:18
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counterfeitsaint posted:The last two books are really good provided you ignore most of them, and don't mind the lack of a climax, BUT OTHER THAN THAT THEY'RE REALLY GOOD GUYS. I actually think they're good novels on their own. By good I mean well written and enjoyable to read. By well written I mean that what happens is easy to follow conceptually and the sentences simple to parse. I think it's the "enjoyable to read" bit that people disagree with although obviously people love to make fun of fat pink mast and making GBS threads in a field because GRRM's a big weirdo and the people obsessed with hating him even moreso. I think for a lot of fans of books 1-3 the last two books fall under the category of "not what I signed up for" while I was really thrilled to get a closer look at some of Westeros. How the nobles and smallfolk will each deal with the havoc that's been created in the Riverlands and the internal politics of Mereen and the Iron Islands (and to a lesser extent Yunkai and the rest of slavers bay) are hugely interesting to me and I enjoyed and appreciated their exploration. I'd feel a lot more appreciative if their exploration was a stop on the way to finishing the series and I certainly understand the sentiment of "this is all we get?" but I can't help but enjoy reading and rereading AFFC and ADWD. I honestly skip more in books 1-3 during reread (Bran) than in the last two. Obviously I'm not the only one who feels this way and this forum is full of people in both camps when it comes to Feast and Dance. A post about the last to books being good is equally likely to be met with "lol of course they are why do you think that's controversial?" as "lol you're an idiot and that fat bastard will be dead as DOS before he writes another poo poo filled tome" As it stands George wrote five good books and depending on your taste you'll like some more than others.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:47
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Harold Stassen posted:I find the last two books are greatly improved if you just skip a bunch of chapters. I skipped Brienne's entire POV in AFFC and boom, she's back in Jaime's in ADWD. Fully caught up and if you actually read it you can attest I missed exactly butt gently caress all. Briennes POV is good, and a few of her chapters are among the best in the series.
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Feb 2, 2016 04:33
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Cirofren posted:I actually think they're good novels on their own. By good I mean well written and enjoyable to read. By well written I mean that what happens is easy to follow conceptually and the sentences simple to parse. I think it's the "enjoyable to read" bit that people disagree with although obviously people love to make fun of fat pink mast and making GBS threads in a field because GRRM's a big weirdo and the people obsessed with hating him even moreso. Pretty much this. It's OK to dislike Feast and Dance; but don't pretend that's anything but ur opinion.
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Feb 2, 2016 04:34
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