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Cao Ni Ma posted:Not at all, you are basically paying for the xp buff food and leveling is dirt easy in the game. So I should just stick with premium membership and a fancy costume or whatnot?
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Feb 1, 2016 17:43
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Do you want the wardrobe storage? If yes, get premium.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:50
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Just hit 45 on BM. So far extremely underwhelmed on their PvP ability. Long cooldowns on their main combo stuns that seem to be resisted frequently since people can just F out, and not enough burst to really make them worth it. People say they "Get good at 50". Do they mean they get good once HM skills are introduced, or am I going to have to wait for ANOTHER patch after the one on the 10th?
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Feb 1, 2016 18:02
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Schubalts posted:Do you want the wardrobe storage? If yes, get premium. Yeah now that the queue lines have died down there isn't much reason to have premium other than wardrobe which sucks a lot. That should be a baseline thing because junking costumes in a game that never intends you to break them is a horrible decision. Find some other way to entice people into premium.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:18
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Haroshia posted:Just hit 45 on BM. So far extremely underwhelmed on their PvP ability. Long cooldowns on their main combo stuns that seem to be resisted frequently since people can just F out, and not enough burst to really make them worth it. People say they "Get good at 50". Do they mean they get good once HM skills are introduced, or am I going to have to wait for ANOTHER patch after the one on the 10th? Welcome to hell, my friend. The best BM I've managed to find so far is Flowroro on twitch. I'd recommend trying to do some of the combos he does as well as using the builds he links on his twitch page. Edit: I'm hovering around 1650 and each fight is an uphill loving battle. Basically you want to spec all the CC you can (tab, x, c, 2, 2 on draw stance to extend status, LMB on draw stance, 3 on draw stance) as well as all the breaks you can (which is the tab escape and the V to break out of grabs). The way you want to do damage is by either getting off an air combo off of stunning and F or 3 on draw stance, or getting off a stun (or watching them gently caress up an F out of your knockdown or dazes) and then using the RMB on draw stance repeatedly combined with the F lightning thing. Your block will do nothing half the time so you're going to want to use SS and Q/E a lot to try to evade attacks. Godspeed you underpowered scrub. Lemming fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 18:23
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Good god, I didn't realize that upgrading hongmoon gear cost so much in the 39-40+ range. I just upgraded my hongmoon ring to about half full and all of my silver evaporated. I take it I'm expected to just say "gently caress it" and ignore this poo poo till I can do L45 dailies or something?
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Feb 1, 2016 18:27
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Haroshia posted:Just hit 45 on BM. So far extremely underwhelmed on their PvP ability. Long cooldowns on their main combo stuns that seem to be resisted frequently since people can just F out, and not enough burst to really make them worth it. People say they "Get good at 50". Do they mean they get good once HM skills are introduced, or am I going to have to wait for ANOTHER patch after the one on the 10th? I get the feeling from dueling BMs that it's a giant uphill battle for them. Like, they all poop out all these floating swords and do all this anime poo poo and jump around and then they get an elbow into a shoulder check into a hellfire kick into a stun into a kick in the air into a ground slam into a full nelson and cry a little bit inside. The last part I'm just assuming. In other news the greatest matchup in the world is kfm vs deso or any combination of those, it's just two beefcakes beating the poo poo out of each other, no fancy poo poo.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:29
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Lemming posted:Welcome to hell, my friend. The best BM I've managed to find so far is Flowroro on twitch. I'd recommend trying to do some of the combos he does as well as using the builds he links on his twitch page. I picked the class as an investment really. I know they're not great now so I'm not broken-hearted. I'm just wondering when they actually get good. Also, on the topic of HM skills, am I going to have to PvE grind to get PvP skills because if so that's dog, horse, and bullshit rolled into some sort of poo poo trifecta.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:31
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Haroshia posted:I picked the class as an investment really. I know they're not great now so I'm not broken-hearted. I'm just wondering when they actually get good. Also, on the topic of HM skills, am I going to have to PvE grind to get PvP skills because if so that's dog, horse, and bullshit rolled into some sort of poo poo trifecta. I think so yes. Hail Satan.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:33
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Lemming posted:I think so yes. Hail Satan.  I already ground through 45 levels of godawful boring PvE content to be able to PvP, and now I have to grind through more daily horseshit to get skills that are practically required for PVP. WHAT THE gently caress KOREA. Jesus. It's like they don't realize the only reason this game gets any play is because of outfits that show butts and PvP.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:36
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I'm crossing my fingers that when they add the zen beans (???) currency to PvP that I'll be able to grind dollar bills through that and not need to run PvE dungeons over and over to afford the upgrades. I think the PvE stuff is fun to do a few times but grinding dailies makes me want to kill myself.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:41
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How many story acts are in the version we have right now? And does it end right about when you hit 45 or just keep going for hongmoon levels?Haroshia posted:
I got that regium corvus outfit from the daily dash, and I kinda like it but I hate that the boots have heels. What's wrong with just boots? How the gently caress does my kfm manage to do any of the poo poo she does without falling over? Although I guess wearing heels and kicking someone in the face would make it hurt a lot more, maybe?
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Feb 1, 2016 18:42
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Rhymenoserous posted:Good god, I didn't realize that upgrading hongmoon gear cost so much in the 39-40+ range. Infernal accessories give as much or more exp and don't have the silver cost if you feel like rerunning tomb of exiles awhile.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:52
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Haroshia posted:
Hey now, I'm pretty sure a few of the hongmoon skills have to be purchased with zen beans! UGH I have to do PvP to be able to progress in PvE what the gently caress man, soulstones were bad enough already!  LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:How many story acts are in the version we have right now? And does it end right about when you hit 45 or just keep going for hongmoon levels? We're at the end of act 3, and yes it ends right as you hit 45. Korea I'm pretty sure is either at the end of Act 6 or might be on 7 now. Act 4 will be the level 46-50 stuff in Silverfrost that we'll get whenever they raise the cap and then it kind of goes from there. Hongmoon levels aren't associated with any story stuff.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:08
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dipple posted:Infernal accessories give as much or more exp and don't have the silver cost if you feel like rerunning tomb of exiles awhile. I'm still having nightmares about my run last night that mainly consisted of 4 people dying and then me and another assassin duoing the boss.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:13
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cathead posted:Hey now, I'm pretty sure a few of the hongmoon skills have to be purchased with zen beans! UGH I have to do PvP to be able to progress in PvE what the gently caress man, soulstones were bad enough already! You joke but that is pretty poo poo design. No reason they couldn't allow things to be purchased with either currency.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:16
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Haroshia posted:You joke but that is pretty poo poo design. No reason they couldn't allow things to be purchased with either currency. Yeah but this is a KMMO so they have all kinds of bizarre ideas.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:25
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cathead posted:Yeah but this is a KMMO so they have all kinds of bizarre ideas. It's even funnier because Guild Wars 2 is published by NCSoft as well and they DO segregate competitive PvP and PvE/World PvP. You can just log in day one with a max level character in any class for competitive PvP without TOUCHING the PvE aspects of the game. Granted GW2 isn't great for a variety of different reasons, but I think being able to just do PvP if you just want to do PvP isn't one of them
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Feb 1, 2016 19:29
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Haroshia posted:It's even funnier because Guild Wars 2 is published by NCSoft as well and they DO segregate competitive PvP and PvE/World PvP. You can just log in day one with a max level character in any class for competitive PvP without TOUCHING the PvE aspects of the game. GW2 was also a Western-designed MMO though, and was also only published by NCSoft, whereas BnS was directly developed by them. Hence my comment, a lot of Korean MMO developers seem to have different game design ideas than we do and that's why they sometimes end up seeming kind of bizarre. Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome if BnS had GW2's PvP system, but I don't really find it surprising that there's not much overlap there despite NCSoft being involved in both games.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:38
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Haroshia posted:It's even funnier because Guild Wars 2 is published by NCSoft as well and they DO segregate competitive PvP and PvE/World PvP. You can just log in day one with a max level character in any class for competitive PvP without TOUCHING the PvE aspects of the game. I'm pretty sure this is what A.net and NCsoft had some fights IRL over...in a cage match...overlooking a pool of sharks. 5-Signet warrior on one side, and BM on the other.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:39
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cathead posted:GW2 was also a Western-designed MMO though, and was also only published by NCSoft, whereas BnS was directly developed by them. Hence my comment, a lot of Korean MMO developers seem to have different game design ideas than we do and that's why they sometimes end up seeming kind of bizarre. Beyond that both games were developed and released roughly concurrently, iirc. Given that and the above it's not terribly surprising that there doesn't seem to be much, if any, crossover in ideas for either title. I'm mostly enjoying the content so far but I hadn't played anything more recent than TERA before this. I don't really know how current MMO design stands in terms of content and quest design, so I can't really make any comparison to how BnS stacks up. I have gotten pretty annoyed that there's a lot of RNG tedium that can emerge; the costume roulette in particular seems particularly bad for this, since you seem to either luck out and get the outfit right at the start or have to grind like crazy for it.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:39
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MShadowy posted:I don't really know how current MMO design stands in terms of content and quest design Really this is the biggest thing goons bitch about and to date pretty much every MMO past ultima online has existed somewhere on the bear rear end collection spectrum. Even the A+ single player MMO SW:TOR was all about bear asses. I mean granted it was fully voice acted bear rear end collection, but still bear asses. So to break it down for you: Yesterdays MMO questing was about collecting bear asses. Tommorows MMO questing will be about collecting bear asses. A few people will innovate by making you throw the bear asses at things after collecting them, but it won't be a trend or anything.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:48
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Rhymenoserous posted:bear rear end collection Well, those NPCs do like their bear asses, and they aren't gonna collect themselves, I suppose.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:52
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Yeah, it's unfortunate but at the end of the day PvE content is about fighting things until the thing you're looking for pops out. Sometimes it's a quest target, which just means you have to kill 10 bears for the rear end to pop out. I don't really see the wheel being reinvented any time soon. Some people will say that maybe you should be able to craft the bear rear end, but then you're just gathering bear rear end materials in order to make the bear rear end, and that's the same as above. You're just fighting ore rocks and plants instead of bears. How much can you really change it up?
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Feb 1, 2016 20:53
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I think the most engaging pve content in an MMO was TSW and it was mostly because a lot of it was like a single player puzzle game for the best missions. Like once you actually did the investigation missions there was little reason to go through them again and you'd go right back to farming zombie asses.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:01
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I should mention that this game has some of the worst bear rear end collecting available that I've ever seen. Oh sure, I'd absolutely love to collect 15 bear asses for you, all in this small area where only 5 bears spawn and seven other people are camping the poo poo out of the individual bear spawn points in order to harvest some rear end. Pfffah closed tagging? Hell yeah. I loving love this outdated concept from the early aught aughts that every other game developer has gotten the gently caress rid of. I know I'll swap to channel 7. Oh gently caress 15 people are camping instead of the orignal 7, so I'll just switch back. A TIMER? HURRAY!
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Feb 1, 2016 21:05
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It's even more offensive that the poo poo you pick up off the ground or from trees is globally limited instead of personally, especially when combined with long respawns
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Feb 1, 2016 21:08
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GW2 had a good idea with what passed for quests generally having multiple ways to contribute to or complete them, but then they kinda said gently caress it and most became just farming mobs for a while. Best solution I think is just making sure a player is rewarded sufficiently for doing some non-prescribed objective of their choice. Like if I want to farm a boss for a thing they drop, don't screw me out of exp or money beyond just the natural curve for continuing to do it to try to move me to the next quest. I'll stop and move on on my own once I've accomplished that objective. This game sort of does that with the mini dungeons and how you will always get the base reward, and I've got options and dumplings for days, though the money and exp drop off pretty quickly. I think quests as a motivation to grind have lost what lustre they ever had. The veneer of a reason to grind something you weren't interested in has worn off. That being said, botting kind of hampers the whole rewarding players for doing what their personal objective is thing. chumbler fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 21:16
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Yeah, obviously quests will be about bear asses but bns is missing some major quality of life like global tagging, personal item gathering etc. So it leads to things like standing around waiting for something to spawn and hoping other people aren't trying to do the same thing at the same time. I'm also starting to resent the movement system. You can only sprint for, what, 15 seconds (does it go up later and if so, how high?), only when out of combat, and half the time I'm running slowly for ten seconds after combat because the game refuses to acknowledge I'm not fighting anything. I'd really rather just have a mount or unlimited sprinting. This becomes super obvious in the scorching sands when you're running around for ages while not doing much.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:19
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Due to the fact that developers cannot and probably will never be able to develop new content faster than the majority of their player base can consume it, the idea of collecting bear asses or repetitive tasks in general going away in favor of "something else" is pretty much a pipe dream. The best that one can hope for is that those repetitive tasks are more fun to complete which for me has a ton to do with the combat system and enemy AI. Beyond that, we can ask for a large variety of repetitive tasks to complete as well as many forms of PvE progression. We can also ask for multiple types of activities to contribute to each of those progression systems, but beyond that...what can be done that is fiscally viable?
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Feb 1, 2016 21:22
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Xavier434 posted:Due to the fact that developers cannot and probably will never be able to develop new content faster than the majority of their player base can consume it, the idea of collecting bear asses or repetitive tasks in general going away in favor of "something else" is pretty much a pipe dream. The best that one can hope for is that those repetitive tasks are more fun to complete which for me has a ton to do with the combat system and enemy AI. Beyond that, we can ask for a large variety of repetitive tasks to complete as well as many forms of PvE progression. We can also ask for multiple types of activities to contribute to each of those progression systems, but beyond that...what can be done that is fiscally viable? No, I think that's fair. But on the other hand not having a VERY limited number of bears from who's rear end you can collect while utilizing an old style closed tagging system is pretty loving lovely. I was doing a "Collect poo poo from these assholes" quest last night. It required I collect 10 of the stupid whatevers from these assholes. However there were only five spawnpoints where these assholes spawned, and they were on about a 3 minute timer. If I had been there by myself I'd have completed the whole quest in give or take 5-6 minutes based on respawn and ttk. But I wasn't there alone. I was there with 4 other people, which turned it into a 20 minute "Who's got the better reflexes" spawn camp. Shits not fun, and they should probably fuckin fix it, because that's straight up archaic mmo design.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:49
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Rhymenoserous posted:No, I think that's fair. But on the other hand not having a VERY limited number of bears from who's rear end you can collect while utilizing an old style closed tagging system is pretty loving lovely. I mean, kill credit is shared fully with party members but nobody is ever going to party up for butt collection.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:50
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Rhymenoserous posted:No, I think that's fair. But on the other hand not having a VERY limited number of bears from who's rear end you can collect while utilizing an old style closed tagging system is pretty loving lovely. Oh I agree 100%. What you are describing all ties into finding new creative ways to make the repetitive tasks more enjoyable. As far as that part goes, I think GW2 is king. Far from perfect, but they made a lot of progress on this issue by making PvE an almost completely non competitive activity. Regardless of one's love or hate for that game, if every MMO at least tried as hard as ANet tried to make MMO PvE a more enjoyable experience in GW2 then we have a much better genre.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:54
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kojei posted:I mean, kill credit is shared fully with party members but nobody is ever going to party up for butt collection. Item credit also: whenever a party member picks up a quest item you get it automatically. They really want you to party I guess. To be honest I've never had any problems with competing for mobs in this game, but maybe that's a server size issue.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:59
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Xavier434 posted:Oh I agree 100%. What you are describing all ties into finding new creative ways to make the repetitive tasks more enjoyable. As far as that part goes, I think GW2 is king. Far from perfect, but they made a lot of progress on this issue by making PvE an almost completely non competitive activity. Regardless of one's love or hate for that game, if every MMO at least tried as hard as ANet tried to make MMO PvE a more enjoyable experience in GW2 then we have a much better genre. Most MMOs have open tagging now just because to do otherwise creates big fat clusterfucks of annoyed people. This is the first game in a few years that I've just logged out for a while in the middle of leveling because new channels weren't opening fast enough and I was stuck in heavy competition for just a few spawns. It was especially bad in the level 30 zones. I've gotten lucky a few times and jumped into underpopulated channels that I had mostly to myself, but it usually only lasts for about 5 minutes or so as people start phasing into it looking for less painful pve. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 22:00
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I'd kinda forgotten about that, since it's only happened a couple times to me so far, but yeah, implementing shared credit without having to party up would be pretty nice; it's not like they couldn't do it, either, since shared credit is available for World Bosses already, so the systems that support it appear to be in place. Man, what a weird and/or dumb oversight. ... well, bitching here probably has poor odds of getting it addressed.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:00
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Clarste posted:Item credit also: whenever a party member picks up a quest item you get it automatically. They really want you to party I guess.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:10
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After an entire day of getting my dick mashed in as a BM, I just want to make sure I understand the upcoming patch. We're getting 5 potential skill points. Not sure how we get them, but via leveling or something. Korea is currently at something like 69 total skill points. In Korea, balance is based on the 69 skill point builds. A lot of classes get a lot of burst damage on those 69 point builds We're getting pushed the balance changes for those builds when we're stuck at 30something points...which include summoner buffs. That about right?
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Feb 1, 2016 22:23
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Yeah, that's a good example of bad quest design. That's not even the only time where I've cleared an area of quest objectives and then have to sit around waiting for more to spawn as a single player, it's even worse if multiple people are trying to do it at the same time. I've had people invite me to parties and I've had limited success attempting to do the same - shared tagging would've been a lot better and more encouraging for people to "team up." For what it's worth this game does at least handle partying nicely if you happen to be on the same quest and in a party. One thing I will say that WoW did well (back when I played, which was years ago) was the use of personalized instances in small pockets of the world that would change as you progressed in quests. BnS sorta-but-not-really does a more temporary version of this at certain story beats.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:27
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Haroshia posted:After an entire day of getting my dick mashed in as a BM, I just want to make sure I understand the upcoming patch. We'll be getting 11 points from Hongmoon 1-5. 5 for level 1, 1 for levels 2 and 4, 2 for levels 3 and 5. Also these patches since beta have actually nerfed summoners primary damage, so it's not some conspiracy. They've actually adjusted player arena HP upward since beta so that fights are less bursty, since at 50 the HP to damage ratio is more in favor of HP. Korea goes up to Hongmoon 20, 69 skill points. realistically though most people are around Hongmoon 10-15 because the higher hongmoon levels take MUCH longer to get through, so it's more like 54-62. I don't know how Korea balances but I'm willing to bet it's around the average and not max Hongmoon levels. Not every class gets "burst" either it's more that you can get more of the skills that you need to handle various situations, as well as having the extra points you'll need to get the ultimate skills (since they cost multiple points to get). At any rate, things will start to even out between the classes a lot more as we get 50, more hongmoon levels, and all of the different hongmoon skills get implemented (we're getting some with the next patch but not all). cathead fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 22:36
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