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Yeah the health malus is specifically to make sure they don't live to their 80's or something.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:46
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Must be great getting user input regarding Conclave mechanics from your forums. "WTF Paradox you shouldn't make everyone gang up on you if you are big, you should instead make large realms hard to manage internally!!" "WTF Paradox I have to give powerful vassals council positions instead of just having a full row of übermensch yes-men?? fix this"
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Feb 3, 2016 16:50
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Another weird behavior: I dropped a stack of 15k raiders on Rome. Pope hires a 10k-strong band of mercenaries that spawn in the next county over, then proceeds to march them into Rome. At 0 morale. They get routed basically instantly, but due to the new shattered retreat I can't wipe them out to a man. They come back several more times at fuller morale, but every time outnumbered but 5-10k troops and they lose. It actually made raiding Rome hard because they were chipping away at my deathstack and delaying the siege, but they never stood a chance at winning. I ended up abandoning Rome to raid the still-helpless Venice.Autonomous Monster posted:I very, very rarely see vassals refuse revocations with that sort of power disparity. Did he have lunatic or some other rationality-reducing trait? That could be it, I'll have to check when I get home.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:52
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Eric the Mauve posted:I dunno who said the education system is terrible, I think it's definitely an improvement although I think they might have veered slightly too hard toward not enough traits. I see a lot of adults with only 1 or 2 traits now where it used to more reliably be 4 or 5. Five traits is the max, though, you need one or two free slots for people to grow into. Though I wouldn't be complaining if they upped that cap to 6 or 7... Groogy posted:Yeah the health malus is specifically to make sure they don't live to their 80's or something. It feels like a weird way to handle it. I mean, I guess technically speaking so long as it produces the correct life expectancy gradient then it's as good a solution as any other, but it feels like a "healthy" horse should be "as healthy" as a "healthy" human, and you fix the life expectancy thing by, I don't know, defining custom youth/maturity/middle age/senescence age bands and attaching that concept to race. What is race, anyway? Apparently the trigger's been in the game since LoR, but nobody seems to know what it does.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:59
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Autonomous Monster posted:It feels like a weird way to handle it. I mean, I guess technically speaking so long as it produces the correct life expectancy gradient then it's as good a solution as any other, but it feels like a "healthy" horse should be "as healthy" as a "healthy" human, and you fix the life expectancy thing by, I don't know, defining custom youth/maturity/middle age/senescence age bands and attaching that concept to race. You're asking Paradox to fundamentally add a whole new feature to the game (variable lifespans for various species) for the purposes of a gag.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:06
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My understanding is that race is just a flag to allow triggers for various traits and portraits effects to be applied. Mods like the Elder Scrolls one use it to make all of the elves have pointy ears and certain traits for example. Unrelated: Since I've not had time to play yet, how do you get the horse character? Insane trait?
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Feb 3, 2016 17:08
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Trogdos! posted:Must be great getting user input regarding Conclave mechanics from your forums. "WTF Paradox you shouldn't make everyone gang up on you if you are big, you should instead make large realms hard to manage internally!!" "WTF Paradox I have to give powerful vassals council positions instead of just having a full row of übermensch yes-men?? fix this" I like the one where someone has cheated a claim to the Byzantine Empire to the Kaiser of HRE and then enforced it and complains that he gets a coalition after that with the comment "This needs to be balanced devs!"  No it won't, it is working exactly like it is intended. Get off my case scrub.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:10
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DStecks posted:You're asking Paradox to fundamentally add a whole new feature to the game (variable lifespans for various species) for the purposes of a gag. For the purposes of modding, actually. And it's hardly a "whole new feature", we're just talking about, instead of having this one set of coefficients be constant across all characters, have them vary based on another property. TheCIASentMe posted:Unrelated: Since I've not had time to play yet, how do you get the horse character? Insane trait? Yeah, there's an age old lunatic event where you'd replace your chancellor with a horse, but it never actually did that, it just fired your current chancellor. Now you get an actual horse.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:23
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First game has been awesome so far. The Pope and the Caliph have joined forces (along with most of the world) against King Karl. My council are a bunch of useless assholes that I take the opportunity to kill at any given chance. It's taken decades for me to force them to up the title revocation laws, and I had to bribe my own drat mother and sons to make it happen. The AI invites me carousing which I've never actually seen from this side before - the first time at a party I got drunk and tried to fight everybody, and they took the opportunity to beat the poo poo out of their king. But now the bad: Everybody around is retarded with low stats. I can get 3 or 4 star educations well enough, but kids are getting so few traits that they rarely break 10 in a stat, and it's rare someone reaches even 15 in one, with single digits in everything else. 4 star martial education doesn't seem to give combat leadership traits any more. I have two commanders that have picked them up through combat, but otherwise I don't have a commander worth using, even with 4 star educations. Prisoners after sieges seems weird. I can pillage 4 or 5 large holdings to the ground and get none. The next temple gives me a dozen. Probably just RNG.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:28
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Autonomous Monster posted:Five traits is the max, though, you need one or two free slots for people to grow into. Though I wouldn't be complaining if they upped that cap to 6 or 7... 5 is a soft cap; actually I thought it was 4. You can definitely pick up more than 5 traits via various events, but if you do the game will start regularly firing events that remove random traits. At least that's how it was before Conclave. I thought race was just a purely portrait thing.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:36
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Eric the Mauve posted:I thought race was just a purely portrait thing.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:40
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Race is only used in mods and barely in vanilla except for graphical stuff.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:42
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Hambilderberglar posted:Race also influences some battle strategies I believe, if you want the Embolon Charge tactic you need to have a Greek culture leader or it will never fire. Conversely there's people who groom a bunch of different-cultured people in their empire for purposes of making them military commanders. How feasible that is I have no idea, but it's more than portraits at least. Culture and race are different things, at least I'm 97% sure they are in the context of what we're discussing. You can definitely have someone of, say, Turkish race (their portrait is the Turkish decaying zombie look) but Greek culture (i.e. they can cut the balls off their prisoners).
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Feb 3, 2016 17:44
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Hambilderberglar posted:Conversely there's people who groom a bunch of different-cultured people in their empire for purposes of making them military commanders. How feasible that is I have no idea, but it's more than portraits at least. It's feasible, but it's not really worth it. At the end of the day, numbers of not light infantry are going to do most of the determining who wins a fight. Not worth the opinion penalty of having vassals of a different culture just to get welsh arrow fuckery.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:44
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Volkerball posted:It's feasible, but it's not really worth it. At the end of the day, numbers of not light infantry are going to do most of the determining who wins a fight. Not worth the opinion penalty of having vassals of a different culture just to get welsh arrow fuckery. Especially since archers were nerfed into the ground. Even a high-end Welsh commander maxes out at like 30% to pick Massive Longbow Volley, and when he does it's still pretty great but not gamebreaking. I'll occasionally invite some high-Martial guy with a good military culture just to make him a commander if I can spare room in my court, but I never have foreign-cultured vassals for the purpose.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:46
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Groogy posted:I like the one where someone has cheated a claim to the Byzantine Empire to the Kaiser of HRE and then enforced it and complains that he gets a coalition after that with the comment "This needs to be balanced devs!"  See also: poor interactions with scripted stuff i.e. Charlemagne lurksion fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 17:48
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lurksion posted:I actually don't think that's reasonable for that to essentially give a 300 year cooldown. Game's over even if you do it legit (like I have done many times as Venice). You don't get a 300 year cooldown though, you get like... 80 I think is the worst case?
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Feb 3, 2016 17:50
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Volkerball posted:It's feasible, but it's not really worth it. At the end of the day, numbers of not light infantry are going to do most of the determining who wins a fight. Not worth the opinion penalty of having vassals of a different culture just to get welsh arrow fuckery. Actually, if you play nomads and can get a German military leader, it's totally worth it. A pure heavy cavalry horde with couched lance charge is a beauty to see. Eric the Mauve posted:5 is a soft cap; actually I thought it was 4. You can definitely pick up more than 5 traits via various events, but if you do the game will start regularly firing events that remove random traits. At least that's how it was before Conclave. Yes, they went a bit too far with the changes. Characters growing up with only one trait should be the absolute exception, perhaps if it's an imbecile or slow child. But it's too common right now. The game should give between 2 and 4 traits, with 3 being the most probable outcome. But the general system is fine, better than we had before.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:51
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Conclave rejiggered the way children's stat growth works in a way that made stats lower across the board. This was intentional and probably a good idea, it was honestly too easy to train up children who are awesome at everything. The fewer traits thing though, yeah they might have overshot the mark a tad on that. I get the philosophy behind it, though.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:53
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Groogy posted:You don't get a 300 year cooldown though, you get like... 80 I think is the worst case? I could have misread/misunderstood it though. Still in 2.4 since I have a few games I want to finish.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:53
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Ofaloaf posted:Huh, just had the AI proposed that two people who'd been betrothed normally be married matrilineally. Haven't seen that happen in a while. The betrothée, a princess, was fifth in line for the throne, though, could that have something to do with it? I'm guessing the AI re-evaluates stuff when the marriage becomes reality?
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Feb 3, 2016 17:54
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lurksion posted:IIRC his image was something like 700 infamy with a 0.2 monthly decay, so 290 years. But you get capped at a 100% The rest 600 infamy doesn't do anything and are cut away. If people wouldn't go on random reddit rage rumors people would actually know how the mechanic work and not be as enraged.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:55
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So I I have two sons. The oldest is born slow. So I train him to be a fighter because what else can the lad do? The second I name my primary heir. No congenital traits good or bad so I figure hes the better bet. I die while both are young. The oldest learned how to be strong somehow. And is also gregarious and trusting. So he's a relatively well liked god-general, but has an intrigue of 0. The one I'm now playing had only one trait when I started playing him: rowdy. Apparantly theres an even which makes this trait into the congenital "slow" trait. At age sixteen this is the state of affairs.  Goddamnit. Seems it's way harder to game education to ensure that your chosen heir is the good one. At least I got brilliant strategist on both.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:57
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Groogy posted:But you get capped at a 100% The rest 600 infamy doesn't do anything and are cut away. Also I guess better tooltips/mechanics explanations? e.g. change the presentation of monthly decay to "years to 0 infamy" or something (or add it in if you want the preserve the detail). lurksion fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 17:57
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Groogy posted:If people wouldn't go on random reddit rage rumors people would actually know how the mechanic work and not be as enraged. I don't think you get how this works, the rage is the whole point, what specific pretext the rage is directed at is unimportant
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Feb 3, 2016 17:57
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With the education changes the "stay in Gavelkind, take Seduction, crank out two dozen bastards, legitimize whichever male turns out best, legitimize random females to matrimarry to spread your dynasty around" strategy got even better.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:59
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That a four star military education no longer gives characters a leadership trait is actually a thing that bothers me a lot. They might as well just remove these traits entirely for how rare they have become. I hope it's a bug that will be fixed.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:00
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Had that happen to me too, was a rude surprise when my first son was of her dynasty. They definitely do now, I've had the AI refuse to honor a couple great betrothals, which is horseshit because I have to eat the rear end in a top hat points for cancelling it. If the AI is allowed to back out of betrothals, then you should be able to send a marriage request they won't agree to, because they're the ones breaking the betrothal, not me.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:00
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Man this is the first time I've been actively around when a new DLC dropped and holy poo poo are the reactions funny.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:01
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Yeah, but you pick up most of your traits from way of life focus's anyway. I think it makes sense to have your ruler learn on the job like that. I mean, historically, the children of great monarchs tended to be pampered, incompetent or shockingly ignorant people who never would have gotten anywhere near real power if they hadn't been born into it. Look at Marcus Aurelius and his son Commodus, or Edward I and Edward II , Isabella I and Joanna the mad , George Bush and George W. Bush. So anyway, is Conclave worth full price or should I wait on a spring/summer sale?
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Feb 3, 2016 18:05
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Still unsure if coalitions should really be in CK2 but whatever. Still, I feel that a lot of these mechanics would be a lot more agreeable if just tweaked a little which should hopefully happen soon. IIRC didn't Way of Life get disliked by people because it became Seduction: The Game?
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Feb 3, 2016 18:06
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Groogy posted:I like the one where someone has cheated a claim to the Byzantine Empire to the Kaiser of HRE and then enforced it and complains that he gets a coalition after that with the comment "This needs to be balanced devs!" I mean, I kind of get where dude is coming from - the more reasonable version of that concern isn't "conquering Byzantium as the HRE will trigger a coalition of your terrified neighbours, pls nerf" but rather "having religious enemies, or people who would never have heard of each other because they are on opposite sides of your gigantic empire, nonetheless working together to stop you is kinda ridiculous/unrealistic". But on the other hand unifying Byzantium and the HRE or restoring Rome is kinda ridiculous/unrealistic too, so I figure if the player is going to jump the tracks to such an extent, why can't the game? It's better than a 500 year victory lap. Granted, I'm very much not a map painty player so maybe this is just a "nothing of value was lost" reaction to me, and granted some of the details of the system might need tweaking. I dunno for sure: I haven't gotten a chance to play with it yet, only to look at how it can be changed. On one hand, it sucks that coalitions and shattered retreats can only really be affected by defines - on the other hand you can change a lot about how infamy accumulates and where shattered retreats go by changing the defines (you can set minimums and maximums for distance, and even influence the choice of destination), so even if Paradox doesn't iterate on the system for a while there's a lot that can be done in mods to make it less of a pain. (I know, I know, MAH CHEEVOS.) Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 18:07
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/clarifying-coalitions.906098/ Rageair does an excellent breakdown on how coalitions work.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:08
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Coalitionchat: This is the current coalition going due to the Abbasid blob pissing literally everybody around them off. This coalition has been going on for about half a decade now and no war has fired. Overall I wouldn't say coalitions are unbalanced, as they don't even seem to kick off as soon as the target is outnumbered. Between nomads, Byzantines, Lombardy, half of India, and my Venetian riches, the outcome is a forgone conlusion yet no war has kicked off. Edit: I wish the loving war would kick off though because I already stole an Egyptian city during an Abbasid revolt and I want more so I can seize that silk road port in Alexandria. 
Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 18:10
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SkySteak posted:Still unsure if coalitions should really be in CK2 but whatever. Still, I feel that a lot of these mechanics would be a lot more agreeable if just tweaked a little which should hopefully happen soon. i think most people thought it was funny, but way of life right off the bat had a lot of fans saying it was exactly what the game needed. cm before a patch was perceived pretty negatively though, since it made caliphates into unstoppable murderblobs. but it's fixed and the start date is cool.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:11
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DStecks posted:They definitely do now, I've had the AI refuse to honor a couple great betrothals, which is horseshit because I have to eat the rear end in a top hat points for cancelling it. Yeah, "Consummate Betrothed Marriage" should be a separate function entirely that sends an event to the AI ruler to accept or refuse. It is kinda bullshit that the AI can refuse to honor a betrothal with a simple "NO" screen and you're forced to break it yourself, though usually the penalty is meaningless. SkySteak posted:IIRC didn't Way of Life get disliked by people because it became Seduction: The Game? Sort of--the problem is that AI rulers were (and still are) way too likely to take Seduction in vanilla and then gently caress literally every woman in the entire realm, if they live long enough. It doesn't even matter if she's chaste, your wife WILL be caught cheating on you within a few years of marrying her, every time, unless you live in an extremely small realm. So there are mods to turn the frequency of AI rulers taking Seduction way down, or it's easy enough to do yourself with a couple settings tweaks. Then it's fine. The lack of a meaningful way for a woman to refuse to be seduced--she CAN but there's no penalty and the seducer can just immediately try again--has always been a glaring missed feature causing an imbalance. But I think Paradox's attitude about it is "it's just for funsies."
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Feb 3, 2016 18:13
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Eric the Mauve posted:Sort of--the problem is that AI rulers were (and still are) way too likely to take Seduction in vanilla and then gently caress literally every woman in the entire realm, if they live long enough. It doesn't even matter if she's chaste, your wife WILL be caught cheating on you within a few years of marrying her, every time, unless you live in an extremely small realm. So there are mods to turn the frequency of AI rulers taking Seduction way down, or it's easy enough to do yourself with a couple settings tweaks. Then it's fine. Honestly this never bothered me. I usually pay the five gold for the investigator whenever the wife is suspected of being unfaithful. If nothing comes up, the secret bastard is a part of my dynasty with no problems at all, so why do I care? That said, I mostly investigate in the hopes that I catch some seducer vassal so I have a reason to imprison him, and if the wife's not ideal then I also get an excuse to divorce for free and trade up! I'm pretty laid back in general with this game. E: I especially don't care if I'm playing a republic and all I want is unlanded male dynasty members.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:16
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah, "Consummate Betrothed Marriage" should be a separate function entirely that sends an event to the AI ruler to accept or refuse. It is kinda bullshit that the AI can refuse to honor a betrothal with a simple "NO" screen and you're forced to break it yourself, though usually the penalty is meaningless. I usually open up the console and allow myself to send non-acceptable offers and then switch over to the other character and refuse so they get the "broke betrothal" modifier instead. And then sometimes I just console kill the AI's child just to spite them. But seriously, that's something that needs to be fixed.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:21
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Honky Dong Country posted:Coalitionchat: Coalitions don't trigger wars, they are defensive. We have been saying this over and over and over and over again. And over again.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:23
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but are you sure
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