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Woolie Wool posted:I used to like Babylon 5 but holy poo poo is it corny. Andreas Katsulas was decent, the other actors were loving TERRIBLE, the dialogue was "I hate sand" level and the social commentary is clumsier than a drunken rhino. Star Trek is actually better. Counterpoint: The G'Kar - Londo dynamic and story-arc. And yeah, Babylon 5 is corny, and I'm not going to pretend that the dialogue is always great or that the actors necessarily do a great job all the time, but I can forgive that on the basis of G'Kar and Londo's evolution over the course of the show as a whole. The effects are dated as gently caress, though.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:43
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QuarkJets posted:lol "everyone has their own tastes but I just get so tired of people expressing theirs, now listen while I explain mine" Yes this is me. I am the man that said the stupid things. To be fair I don't like TNG, but I've already endorsed star trek as "philosophical" and other bullshit so I'll just keep quiet. ...after I say that "City at the Edge of Forever" is one of the best hours of television ever written and filmed
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Feb 3, 2016 20:35
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Who What Now posted:Andromeda sucked rear end. Yup.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:41
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DS9 has a whole ongoing subplot where a marx-quoting labour activist forces socialism and feminism on a huge misogynistic capitalist empire. It's also just a way better show than TNG. I loved TNG, but trying to re-watch it after marathonning DS9 is really hard. The characters are beige polyester, the plots are beige polyester, the ideology is biege polyester. Sometimes that's comforting, but it's not good.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:46
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I can watch individual episodes of TNG. But I basically have to skip 80% of first season and about half of the second season. Likewise it just seems dated at times with its plots. Still has my all time favorite Star Trek episode. The inner Light.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:06
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B5 and TNG have the same problem where there are one or two people absolutely killing it the whole way while everything around them kind of sucks. It's a recurring issue in genre TV and a good chunk of why Alexander Dane is such a good character. Original Star Trek and the Animated Series both own. This has been my opinion post in this, the Libertarianism and Televised Science Fiction thread.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:36
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Kirk makes friends with the devil, the Enterprise crew learns dark magic, and Sulu creates a girlfriend out of the ether. Uhara wishes Sulu good luck before he approaches her, because she thinks he's likely to strike out with his Pygmalion golem. This is an allegory for nuclear technology and the series of terrifying nuclear accidents. See the time Britain tried to make a reactor to show the US they were smart enough to use nuclear secrets, and the graphite thing got too hot, caught fire, and irradiated the dairy cattle nearby.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:12
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It's weird how TOS genuinely has a darker tone than a lot of TNG.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:26
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OwlFancier posted:It's weird how TOS genuinely has a darker tone than a lot of TNG. TNG's biggest conceptual problem is it's based on a fundamentally optimistic and ridiculously utopian presumption which, frankly, inhibits believably by forcing otherwise-relatable characters/plot elements/settings to fit into the unbelievable premise (and the terrible writing and often subpar acting sure doesn't help either). DS9 found a way around that by demonstrating that the space hippie bullshit that we'd seen so much of in TNG was just the Federation deluding itself that it'd worked poo poo out, and was intentionally ignorant that outside the pampered and insulated core systems things got real lovely, real quick. You see glimpses of this every so often in TNG, particular when the bajoran/cardassian stuff popped up from time to time, but whoops then we're back to talking down to pre-industrial caricatures about how superstition or pollution or whatever is baaaad but nope we're not going to actually help out or anything. 
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Feb 3, 2016 22:41
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Dude, TNG is so sanitized that the writers' bible advised against interpersonal conflict on the Enterprise because people had outgrown such primitive foibles as "disagreement".
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Feb 3, 2016 22:42
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Woolie Wool posted:Dude, TNG is so sanitized that the writers' bible advised against interpersonal conflict on the Enterprise because people had outgrown such primitive foibles as No pockets = no attachment to personal property = utopia. I'm barely exaggerating Gene's pocket philosophy here. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 23:52
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TOS is also based on the same presumably utopian premise except it still has the enterprise going up against some pretty hosed up poo poo.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:54
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Baronjutter posted:No pockets = no attachment to personal property = utopia. I'm barely exaggerating Gene's pocket philosophy here. No joke, a lot of the reason I gave Enterprise a pass was that the cast wore clothes that made actual sense. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 00:14
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I guess TNG is good if only because it resulted in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odHivt77qkk
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Feb 4, 2016 00:16
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TNG is good. It has a robot who is sad about not having emotions.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:39
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HorseLord posted:TNG is good. It has a robot who is sad about not having emotions. giggle
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Feb 4, 2016 01:17
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Related to both libertarianism and Star Trek: a crazy libertarian analyzes Star Trek. You see, as a libertarian, all politics that aren't friendly to me are statist. The Federation is statist,  was statist, therefore the Federation is fascist. QED statist pigs.  And yes, he compares the Federation to Nazis specifically: a lunatic posted:In the 20th Century there has been a conspicuous political ideology that combines militarism, the subordination of private economic activity to collective social purposes, and often the disparagement of traditional religious beliefs and scruples: Fascism, and not the conservative Fascism of Mussolini and Franco, who made their peace with the Church and drew some limits about some things (Franco even helped Jews escape from occupied France), but the unlimited "revolutionary," Nihilistic Fascism of Hitler, which recoiled from no crime and recognized no demands of conscience or God above the gods of the Führer and the Volk. I think he's a full-on Randroid too as he devotes dozens of pages to a bizarre love-hate relationship with Immanuel Kant. Ironically for someone who has an even bigger axe to grind against postmodernism and social justice, his writing style on "serious" topics is utterly impenetrable. Also check out his dense web of crazy involving Harry Potter, the four humors, libertarianism, Alger Hiss, ancient Chinese philosophy, Camille Paglia, Jungian pseudopsychology, and Myers-Briggs. It has to be seen to be believed. Is this what happens when philosophy teachers develop schizophrenia?
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Feb 4, 2016 02:01
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There's that one episode where the federation tries to deport a bunch of Indians off of their land...
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Feb 4, 2016 02:29
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President Kucinich posted:There's that one episode where the federation tries to deport a bunch of Indians off of their land... Isn't that the one where Will Wheaton learns to stop time or something?
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Feb 4, 2016 02:35
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It's the one where nothing at all worth watching happens, just like all the others.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:05
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I think some of the people ITT don't have the lobes for business.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:51
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I love how libertarians can identify any evil regime with "statism" because it was, y'know, a government of some kind.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:59
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Juffo-Wup posted:Isn't that the one where Will Wheaton learns to stop time or something? After the Indians send him on a spirit journey, yes.
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Feb 4, 2016 04:52
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Star Trek may seem like a legit high-minded intellectual show about deep philosophical questions if you're a drooling idiot. That's probably why it's such a popular series among people who way overestimate their intelligence Firefly fans don't pretend that it's anything more than a western in space, and I respect that. Star Wars fans are like Star Trek fans in that they take their material way too loving seriously. Farscape fans seem pretty cool because they're usually like "I like the characters and I want to resurrect and fellate Jim Henson", which is something I think we can all get behind
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Feb 4, 2016 05:02
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QuarkJets posted:Firefly fans don't pretend that it's anything more than a western in space, and I respect that. Why would you lie to us like this? Why would you lie straight to our faces as if we wouldn't know?
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Feb 4, 2016 05:04
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everything that's not star wars or star trek is no better than lexx firefly? bsg? babylon 5? not any better than lexx
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Feb 4, 2016 05:06
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SedanChair posted:everything that's not star wars or star trek is no better than lexx Holy poo poo.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:10
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My partner and I have been working our way through the entirety of DS9 on netflix for a while, neither of knew much of anything about it but we grew to like it quite a lot. We're just getting into season seven now. One thing that I sort of puzzled over for a long time was why the ultra-capitalist Ferengi lived under such an overbearing, intrusive regulatory state. Star Trek chat in this thread caused a felicitous synaptic connection, and now it makes perfect sense: The Ferengi Alliance is a DRO! At some point in their species's history, all the Ferengi DROs were consolidated into one entity which now functions as an authoritarian state. After all, in the numerous occasions where Quark runs afoul of the FCA, what is the threatened punishment? The FCA seizes his assets and revokes your business license, which means that no Ferengi will do business with Quark, presumably on pain of being banned as well. It actually happens to him during the series, as well... Brunt takes his stuff and slaps a sticker on his doorway telling all Ferengi not to do business with Quark. The sticker stays up for most of a season, but his bar basically continues operating as normal because non-Ferengi don't care. What happens if a woman in your family does business? Why, the same thing that happens to somebody who expresses dissent in one of Hoppe's covenant communities--your assets are forfeit and you are cast out.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:10
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I don't think anyone really enjoys Firefly per se. I mean, it's a great show, and worth enjoying, but it only lasted one season. So its fans have derived much more enjoyment from whining about its cancellation for over a loving decade than they ever did from the actual show.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:10
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GunnerJ posted:Holy poo poo. The only important sci-fi to come out since 1980 is Red Dwarf
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Feb 4, 2016 05:12
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SedanChair posted:The only important sci-fi to come out since 1980 is Red Dwarf The latter seasons are crap and lost all the charm that made Red Dwarf enjoyable there I said it.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:14
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The superior Statist's Choice is of course Stargate SG-1.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:28
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SedanChair posted:everything that's not star wars or star trek is no better than lexx Firstly, you bastard, Lexx was good. Secondly, jesus christ
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Feb 4, 2016 05:31
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Bab5 had such good plotting that only communists and libertarians would object to its lacking things like "acting," "dialogue," and "effects."
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Feb 4, 2016 05:35
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The best sci-fi show is buffy the vampire slayer. Everything else is terrible. Especially whatever show you liked the most. That one was the worst of all. E: also I loved the Ferengi in DS9 for every time they pulled the "we may be greedy and uncouth by your standards, but it didn't take us centuries of genocide and nuclear war to achieve world peace, so  with your judgements humans". DS9 was the only star trek that wasn't just "act condescending to a planet full of allegorical stereotypes" almost every week.
Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 05:36
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't think anyone really enjoys Firefly per se. I mean, it's a great show, and worth enjoying, but it only lasted one season. So its fans have derived much more enjoyment from whining about its cancellation for over a loving decade than they ever did from the actual show. This is my opinion as well. The mouthbreathers who complained endlessly on the Internet over Firefly's cancellation were the same neckbeards that show up at Star Trek conventions and speak Klingon to each other. I don't really see them as representative of the Firefly fanbase because I think that they're few in number. There aren't enough people actually sperging out over Firefly to create yearly conventions and poo poo SedanChair posted:everything that's not star wars or star trek is no better than lexx Lexx is the PBR-drinking hipster of scifi shows
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Feb 4, 2016 05:38
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Sedge and Bee posted:The best sci-fi show is buffy the vampire slayer. Everything else is terrible. Especially whatever show you liked the most. That one was the worst of all. Wrong, angel is the best sci-fi show. Dude's an entrepreneur, no self-respecting libertarian would prefer buffy over angel
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Feb 4, 2016 05:39
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Stargate SG-1 and Farscape taught me that the only writing that is -really- important is character writing. As long as your characters are interesting and have good chemistry then pretty much all else is forgivable. This was especially true of SG1, where Richard Dean Anderson would just clown around and it made any episode watchable.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:40
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Who What Now posted:Listen, let's just set aside what was best and all agree that Andromeda sucked rear end. I'm gonna take the unpopular stance and actually say I liked it. The acting was bad, and apparently Sorbo's ego caused many of the numerous bad plot decisions throughout, but overall had a lot of neat ideas and a more mythic bent on Scifi which resonated with me. If they had let it end with the season 4 finale it would have actually been a very satisfying if flawed series. It should've ended there too, what with 95% of the main cast being killed off. Alas, season 5... 
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Feb 4, 2016 05:40
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QuarkJets posted:Wrong, angel is the best sci-fi show. Dude's an entrepreneur, no self-respecting libertarian would prefer buffy over angel 
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Feb 4, 2016 05:41
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