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KakerMix posted:Idiotic terrorists are going to terrorist anyway regardless of their motive. Unless you want to ride the change all the way back to what started Waco, then what started whatever that, etc. that's a maybe, captain. he specifically got mad about waco and decided to bomb stuff about it. maybe he would have done something that dramatic without it but it's definitely not for sure
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Feb 3, 2016 19:57
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I hope that "The End" is started by that pregnant-not-pregnant broad slipping on a banana peel and discharging her firearm , toppling the first domino of a stupid redneck shootout poo poo-show.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:03
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A list of those arrested in the standoff that have prior convictions for a variety of different felonies. This is not a righteous group of individuals at all.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:13
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Am I right in assuming this whole sovereign citizen thing is a bunch of "good ol boys" mad about not being in power anymore? Because after reading this thread it really seems like it.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:18
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I find it very hard to believe that the war was fought over slavery in the sense of any(rich white politician)one caring about the slaves. Wasn't it an ordinary case of a stronger power forcing its economics on its backwards neighbour? Just so happens the neighbour was dependant on slavery. (I mean not that there's anything 'wrong' with economic bullying as history goes; I'm not trying to demonise the north or anything). But I know nothing about american history so v  v
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Feb 3, 2016 20:27
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Strategic Tea posted:I find it very hard to believe that the war was fought over slavery in the sense of any(rich white politician)one caring about the slaves. Wasn't it an ordinary case of a stronger power forcing its economics on its backwards neighbour? Just so happens the neighbour was dependant on slavery. (I mean not that there's anything 'wrong' with economic bullying as history goes; I'm not trying to demonise the north or anything). That's the southern take. The northern take is, if we let them secede, what's the point of being a Republic.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:32
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Personally , I would have like more of the south burned to ground during the war.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:39
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The Dark Project posted:A list of those arrested in the standoff that have prior convictions for a variety of different felonies. This is not a righteous group of individuals at all. They are heroes how dare you, it's not like they are some black kid playing with a toy gun in the park.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:40
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drilldo squirt posted:Am I right in assuming this whole sovereign citizen thing is a bunch of "good ol boys" mad about not being in power anymore? Because after reading this thread it really seems like it. Yeah, I'd say this is an accurate assessment of the situation. If you're old enough to remember, back in the day the prevailing ideal of what it meant to be a man was often embodied in the likes of tough US Lawmen and Sheriffs, going up against great odds of bad guys to win and protect the people of their communities, often at great costs. People like Wyatt Earp and other renown lawmakers who 'tamed' the wild west. Then as times changed and things shifted, and it was no longer just white folks you were protecting, and different multi-ethnic groups of people started to do well, there seems to have been a shift away from wanting to emulate old style Marshall's and Sheriffs, and instead try to recapture some kind of ethereal magic time when everything in the US was right with the world, and it was the land of opportunity and freedom, probably just after the American Revolution. Except for a majority of the population it wasn't. But, white men still ruled so I guess that's good enough!
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Feb 3, 2016 20:43
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The Dark Project posted:Yeah, I'd say this is an accurate assessment of the situation. That, and it was a bunch of pathetic white people thinking they weren't completely hosed because of their pasty skin, and are now are getting several examples that break that illusion. So instead of reexamining their views, they're getting all pissy and having a pathetic tantrum that just completely destroys the shred of dignity they had left.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:04
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:That, and it was a bunch of pathetic white people thinking they weren't completely hosed because of their pasty skin, and are now are getting several examples that break that illusion. So instead of reexamining their views, they're getting all pissy and having a pathetic tantrum that just completely destroys the shred of dignity they had left. It is, actually, really important to a lot of people that they know who the bad people are, and know that they are better than them and deserve more rights than them and the bad people don't deserve rights, because if I have to admit that I'm not inherently better than black people, I might realize that I'm in the bottom 2% of people haha
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Feb 3, 2016 21:11
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Strategic Tea posted:I find it very hard to believe that the war was fought over slavery in the sense of any(rich white politician)one caring about the slaves. Wasn't it an ordinary case of a stronger power forcing its economics on its backwards neighbour? Just so happens the neighbour was dependant on slavery. (I mean not that there's anything 'wrong' with economic bullying as history goes; I'm not trying to demonise the north or anything). Having slaves is how you got to be a rich white Southerner (politician or otherwise). I mean it's pretty hard to keep up if everyone else is exploiting the world's cheapest labor source and you aren't. I doubt there was anyone in power who didn't have some personal stakes in that regard. Then there are some other issues, like what would happen if you free all these slaves at once? Look how people are making GBS threads their pants at the prospect of releasing just a few dozen prisoners from Guantanamo (into stateside supermax facilities). We are talking about releasing a lot of people who have every reason to want a little revenge if they could get it, never mind that they're popularly believed to be subhuman rape monsters. Of course the correct answer is that the white people, who still have all the power, would institute a century-long campaign of terror to keep them under control. But at the time, it was on people's minds.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:49
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are they all dead and worm food yet
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Feb 3, 2016 21:50
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McNerd posted:Then there are some other issues, like what would happen if you free all these slaves at once? Look how people are making GBS threads their pants at the prospect of releasing just a few dozen prisoners from Guantanamo (into stateside supermax facilities). We are talking about releasing a lot of people who have every reason to want a little revenge if they could get it, never mind that they're popularly believed to be subhuman rape monsters. Of course the correct answer is that the white people, who still have all the power, would institute a century-long campaign of terror to keep them under control. But at the time, it was on people's minds. fun fact, after slavery was officially outlawed, it was still practiced a lot of places, with many estimates having pockets of it still going on up through the 1950s turns out that if the local authorities think slavery is super awesome they'll help you hide that it's happening
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Feb 3, 2016 21:56
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McNerd posted:Having slaves is how you got to be a rich white Southerner (politician or otherwise). I mean it's pretty hard to keep up if everyone else is exploiting the world's cheapest labor source and you aren't. I doubt there was anyone in power who didn't have some personal stakes in that regard. I get you, though I was going more for the northern politicians. I think the subsequent century makes it pretty clear how much they cared about liberty for its own sake.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:10
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Strategic Tea posted:I find it very hard to believe that the war was fought over slavery in the sense of any(rich white politician)one caring about the slaves. Wasn't it an ordinary case of a stronger power forcing its economics on its backwards neighbour? Just so happens the neighbour was dependant on slavery. (I mean not that there's anything 'wrong' with economic bullying as history goes; I'm not trying to demonise the north or anything). everything in the south was based on slavery and the north was getting pretty big into abolition and there were a lot of conflicts over new states being slave holding. Basically there were a lot of reasons behind the conflict but the basis of all of them was slavery. South's economy was based on slavery since it was mostly about plantations and crops and stuff all of which were run by slaves.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:16
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In a thread about dum poo poo Americans believe we learn that the civil war was about slavery
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Feb 3, 2016 22:25
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What's going on with our four patriots? Did they eat the fat one yet?
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Feb 3, 2016 22:40
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Mods, change thread title to "The Feds are currently being bored waiting for the Bundy hicks to starve"
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Feb 3, 2016 22:44
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Strategic Tea posted:I find it very hard to believe that the war was fought over slavery in the sense of any(rich white politician)one caring about the slaves. Wasn't it an ordinary case of a stronger power forcing its economics on its backwards neighbour? Just so happens the neighbour was dependant on slavery. (I mean not that there's anything 'wrong' with economic bullying as history goes; I'm not trying to demonise the north or anything). Basically every modern American historian of the time period considers it to be primarily a conflict fought over slavery. Huge amounts of poor people were exploited on both sides, the South used poor yokel farmers to die needlessly to protect an institution that was entirely dependent and built around slavery while the Union did things like conscript/press gang hundreds of Irish literally as they walked off the boat in New York by tricking them and generally lying about the pay and conditions of the army. That doesn't stop it from being almost entirely about slavery, the succession was about slavery, that is why they left the Union. They cared so much about it they enshrined the right to own slaves as an inalienable right in their constitution. They also (shocking no one) explicitly mention the Christian god in there as well. The idea of the ACW not being a conflict over slavery was pushed by a group of historians and Confederate sympathizers and is commonly called Lost Cause Revisionism. It arose as a way for the post-ACW South to maintain it's heroes and not have to deal with the deep deep shame of fighting a bloody war that left millions dead in order to justify literally owning another human being. They needed to be able to maintain a sense of honor because they had sacrificed so much for something that was considered an abominable act by basically all major nations within the lifetime of the people who had fought in the war. The post war period economically devastated the South because they had poured so much money into the War and then lost everything when the Union slashed a burned it to the ground, including all the factories they had built to supply the war efforts. As a kid growing up there it was much easier to say "Oh, these were noble farmers and laborers who fought for the rights of free men against tyranny." than "My uncles, brothers and cousins all died so that Uncle Bill could kidnap guys from Africa to work his farm and rape female slaves for fun."
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Feb 3, 2016 22:47
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The Dark Project posted:A list of those arrested in the standoff that have prior convictions for a variety of different felonies. This is not a righteous group of individuals at all. My dad is a corrections officer and one of the things that pisses him off the most is felons being rearrested in possession of a gun, then a judge slapping them on the wrist for it. If a felon gets busted with a firearm they need to spend a few years in prison at least.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:52
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theflyingorc posted:It is, actually, really important to a lot of people that they know who the bad people are, and know that they are better than them and deserve more rights than them and the bad people don't deserve rights, because if I have to admit that I'm not inherently better than black people, I might realize that I'm in the bottom 2% of people haha some of it isn't even this (necessarily). a lot of americans grow up with the worldview that there is one objective reality which is ruled by an angry and judging deity, and the world is neatly divided into right and wrong, good and evil, and a dramatic "change" that occurs when one goes from evil to good (read: believer baptism, although some uber-conservative denominations do it the other way). even a lot of people who eventually become internet atheist libertarians still hold on to some of this thinking (imo). so this provides a fertile ground for dividing society into two groups, and well i'm a good person so clearly all the groups i associate with are the good ones, and all the ones i hate (regardless of reason) are evil and must be destroyed. then you add in the other issues like poverty, segregated housing, undiagnosed health conditions (mental illness/disabilities), poor schools and social safety net, income inequality, being raised by bigots or abusive parents, etc etc etc, and it's not super hard to see why people develop some of these views
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Feb 3, 2016 22:53
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Casimir Radon posted:My dad is a corrections officer and one of the things that pisses him off the most is felons being rearrested in possession of a gun, then a judge slapping them on the wrist for it. If a felon gets busted with a firearm they need to spend a few years in prison at least. But then where would you put all the people serving 5-10 year mandatory minimum sentences for getting caught with a quarter ounce of pot?
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Feb 3, 2016 23:14
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Casimir Radon posted:About time somebody compiled something like this. Thank you for telling us about your dad + what pisses your dad off.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:15
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My dad is a strong man and he gets pissed off by traffic, the weather, and food that is not spicy enough.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:15
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Basically every modern American historian of the time period considers it to be primarily a conflict fought over slavery. lol you wrote this dont tell andrew jackson this he's committed to the lie that s carolina only ragequits over cloth tarrifs
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Feb 3, 2016 23:19
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Minimalist Program posted:Thank you for telling us about your dad + what pisses your dad off. It's kind of a serious issue.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:20
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Casimir Radon posted:A felon isn't supposed to be able to own a gun anymore, there are supposed to be tough consequences when they get caught doing it. Some judges don't enforce the law properly because they are idiots, and habitually let dangerous people out on supervised release, where they continue being lovely people. Agreed, I can see why it pisses your dad off. My dad gets pissed off when people don't pull out their passports ahead of time while in line at the airport. He's like, there's a sign right there saying "have passports ready" and its not like you have anything else to do while we're waiting!!
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Feb 3, 2016 23:20
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FuhrerHat posted:well.. heroes to other 'patriots' There's another time where the police were trying to disperse an antisocial cult and wound up killing some people, destroying property, and hurting innocent bystanders: the MOVE incident in Philedelphia in 1978. But for some reason patriot militia groups didn't become a major phenomena in the wake of that. I wonder why. What could ever be the reason? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE
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Feb 3, 2016 23:37
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:There's another time where the police were trying to disperse an antisocial cult and wound up killing some people, destroying property, and hurting innocent bystanders: the MOVE incident in Philedelphia in 1978. But for some reason patriot militia groups didn't become a major phenomena in the wake of that. I wonder why. What could ever be the reason? just like Waco, too, this is one of the cases where you can stand back, look at both sides, and say "ugh"
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Feb 3, 2016 23:40
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:There's another time where the police were trying to disperse an antisocial cult and wound up killing some people, destroying property, and hurting innocent bystanders: the MOVE incident in Philedelphia in 1978. But for some reason patriot militia groups didn't become a major phenomena in the wake of that. I wonder why. What could ever be the reason? I've often wondered if Randy Weaver had been aligned with fringe-left groups instead of the Aryan Nation or if the Branch Davidians had been a hippie commune rather than a religious cult if as many fucks would be given about either incident.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:47
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:There's another time where the police were trying to disperse an antisocial cult and wound up killing some people, destroying property, and hurting innocent bystanders: the MOVE incident in Philedelphia in 1978. But for some reason patriot militia groups didn't become a major phenomena in the wake of that. I wonder why. What could ever be the reason? also im pretty sure black advocates cite this incident all the time so i mean it is fueling some extremism just not the same extremism except this is the very problem! so frig!!!!!
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Feb 4, 2016 00:19
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Geoj posted:I've often wondered if Randy Weaver had been aligned with fringe-left groups instead of the Aryan Nation or if the Branch Davidians had been a hippie commune rather than a religious cult if as many fucks would be given about either incident. I think so, especially about Ruby Ridge. Jonestown was ostensibly a socialist commune and had it ended in a siege during which many were killed rather than a mass suicide I think people would have been just as horrified. Extremists at both ends of the political spectrum tend to preach revolution as their ultimate goal. Remember that a lot of violence by the authorities during the 1960s and early 1970s was against people who were 1) on the left side of politics and 2) pacifists. And holy poo poo did those incidents cause (justified) outrage. They're events which are seared into memory as examples of authorities acting in questionable fashion just as much as Waco and Ruby Ridge. Lolie has issued a correction as of 00:28 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 00:21
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i think the hard and fast rule should pretty much be: if you believe in anything, you're wrong
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Feb 4, 2016 00:22
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I saw a comment in the local letters to the editor objecting to calling these fuckwits "militia" when they aren't even close to any dictionary definition of the word. The person who wrote in suggested they be called "rabble" instead, but I think just using "muhlisha" would work. Also, how many of these guys are Mormon? "Mormon Muhlisha" has a nice ring to it, and looks vaguely like the name of an Islamic terrorist group, which is fitting.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:25
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Bedevere posted:Sorry thought he had 8 kids....I wasn't tracking his child slavery ring closely enough I guess. No, you're right. He had 11 children and 19 grandchildren. He doesn't get paid for those. Nobody knows how many foster kids he had. They are estimating 8 at a time based on him receiving 115K in 2009. If they were very troubled teenage boys nobody else wanted then it makes sense he could have been paid the max rate. http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...m-burns-oregon/ quote:That represents an enormous loss of income for the Finicums. According to a 2010 tax filing, Catholic Charities paid the family $115,343 to foster children in 2009. That year, foster parents were compensated between $22.31 and $37.49 per child, per day, meaning if the Finicums were paid at the maximum rate, they cared for, on average, eight children per day in 2009.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:38
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Kev just said he hopes they all rot in prison and that the next group that does it kills themselves and now all we hear from Barb is keys flying I think she's flipping out
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Feb 4, 2016 00:45
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is it still four people hiding out in tarps and praying they dont go to jail or what
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Feb 4, 2016 00:49
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Shadownerd posted:Kev just said he hopes they all rot in prison and that the next group that does it kills themselves and now all we hear from Barb is keys flying I think she's flipping out I'm sorry I don't keep up with a lot of these names, who is kev and barb?
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Feb 4, 2016 00:49
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I love the people who are counter-protesting in Harny. http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...ls-say-go-home/ quote:That anger erupted on Monday in the form of a huge shouting match on the steps of the county courthouse in Burns, Ore. It’s a small town of about 2,700 people, so it’s not every day that you see 400 or 500 people out on the street, screaming at each other.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:50
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