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Sickening posted:Imagine force of will with good art. I hope this is a meta joke about the card game, because yeah, I'd play the card game Force of Will if the art wasn't embarrassing.
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Feb 4, 2016 06:26
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Good cards get played, hold the loving phone! I'm saying that Modern-quality cards that get reprinted in standard usually end up as 4-ofs in the best standard decks. Since M14 they have tried to include at least 1 modern card played in every set, and it usually ends up dominating the standard around it. The only one I can think of that didn't would be Chord of Calling, and that still saw alot of play in Green devotion decks. You can't have too many of those in the same standard without really upping the power level of the format too much. I would love for them to reprint Goyf, Clique or Bob in a standard set. But for the next 18 months, everyone would need those cards to be competitive in Standard and would warp the format around themselves too much. If you think Rhinos are oppressive, imagine every other deck having (or needing) 4 Goyfs.
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Feb 4, 2016 06:30
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I sincerely doubt Goyf would be a huge deal in a format without fetchlands.
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Feb 4, 2016 06:34
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The March Hare posted:e; Yeah, I don't really think the old "don't talk about it" method is going to work. Anyone who actually wants to try to pass these things as real is going to find them anyway, and if we all know about 'em then hey, easier to tell what's what. For my part, any of them that I get I'm just going to mark up on the back to make it clear they are proxies that I'll just be using at home in a cube v0v. The short version is that talking about proxies is no big deal, but showing where they could get counterfeit cards is out. This is for legal reasons so Wizards of the Coast doesn't start putting horse heads in Lowtax's bed or anything.
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Feb 4, 2016 06:34
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When was the last time we had a dual land cycle at rare that didn't see Standard play? The Ice Age depletion counter lands?
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Feb 4, 2016 07:38
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Lottery of Babylon posted:When was the last time we had a dual land cycle at rare that didn't see Standard play? The Ice Age depletion counter lands? A bunch of people insisted Scry 1 lands were not playable period. I really have no idea how good Battlelands are in a world without fetches. They seem playable but kind of bad.
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Feb 4, 2016 08:02
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Angry Grimace posted:A bunch of people insisted Scry 1 lands were not playable period. Maybe checklands/buddylands/whatever in SoI then? Just to make typed duals still relevant.
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Feb 4, 2016 08:08
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If the new manlands are getting played, then basically never. In order of recency, my search turns up: BFZ/OGW Manlands BFZ Duals Enemy Painlands Temples Shocks Checks Fastlands WWK Manlands LRW Tribal Duals Allied Painlands Tempest Tapped Painlands Ice Age Depletion Counter Lands I'm pretty sure they're all pretty playable up to like the Tempest and Ice Age duels. (Did the LRW tribal ones get played? It might just not count as a cycle with Murmuring Bosk not really fitting nicely.)
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Feb 4, 2016 08:10
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Can we agree that the best land is Basic Island?
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Feb 4, 2016 08:16
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Gridlocked posted:Can we agree that the best land is Basic Island? No.
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Feb 4, 2016 08:19
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It's an Island, all right, but it's anything but basic.
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Feb 4, 2016 08:25
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Lottery of Babylon posted:When was the last time we had a dual land cycle at rare that didn't see Standard play? The Ice Age depletion counter lands? Purely from memory: Mirage Block: Tempest Block: ETBT painlands(  ). Before my time, but I can't imagine they saw play outside of block.Urza's Block: No dual cycles. Masques Block: No dual cycles. Invasion: No rare duals. Coastal Tower cycle at Unc saw play. Apoc: Enemy pains. Lots of Play. Ody: original filter lands. They were really bad but I think tog sometimes played one or two. Torment: 4 card Tainted cycle at unc. Can't remember if there was ever a deck for them other than the UB one slotting into Tog. Ons: Original fetches. Moving on. Mirr Block: No duals CHK Block: I don't remember any duals other than the depletion lands at uncommon. Which were awful in Ice Age, and were still awful. RAV Block: Shocklands. Shocklands are great. Bouncelands at common were solid too. TSP: No rare duals, dual chargelands were decent in combo and especially control at unc. FUT: Horizon Canopy weird cycle, all of them have been pretty good I think. LOR: Tribal duals. Good if their tribe was good. SHM: Good filter lands. They're good. ALA: trilands at unc, panoramas at common, no rares. Trilands good, panoramas bad. ARB: Borderposts at common(not technically lands, but they largely act as etbt duals). Saw play in some dumb balancing act deck or something I think. M10: M10 duals, they're solid. ZEN: Fetches, fetches are great. DId refuges see play? I don't remember but I bet they saw a little. WWK: dual manlands, also great Scars: Fastlands, also great ISD: enemy M10 lands, solid RTR block: shocks are still great. I guess we had guildgates too and those were okay. THS block: Temples good KTK: fetches remain good, trilands good at unc, refuges still okay. BFZ: Battlelands, certainly seeing play. New manlands, also certainly seeing play. So I'm going to have to go with last rare dual cycle not to see real play as the lovely Odyssey filters. I think Tog played 1 or 2 copies of the UB one and that was about it. I probably missed something in the middle though. Elyv fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 08:29
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Pedantic trivia: Mirage Block had the original original fetches at uncommon. They were significantly worse than the ONS ones but they saw some amount of play in the "Standard" of the day, as well as old Extended.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:10
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JerryLee posted:Pedantic trivia: Mirage Block had the original original fetches at uncommon. They were significantly worse than the ONS ones but they saw some amount of play in the "Standard" of the day, as well as old Extended. Good catch. Like I said, purely memory. I figured I'd probably miss something.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:11
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JerryLee posted:Pedantic trivia: Mirage Block had the original original fetches at uncommon. They were significantly worse than the ONS ones but they saw some amount of play in the "Standard" of the day, as well as old Extended. Turns out Brainstorm is a good card when you can shuffle your library at will.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:16
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rabidsquid posted:I sincerely doubt Goyf would be a huge deal in a format without fetchlands. It was actually really good in Standard and an absolute nightmare in Block. LOR/MOR having a bunch of playable Tribal cards certainly helped, but it was good before that too. Then you had Extended where the premier blue control deck splashed green solely for Goyf because it was just that good.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:30
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The esper borderposts saw play in time sieve/open the vaults combo.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:32
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JerryLee posted:Pedantic trivia: Mirage Block had the original original fetches at uncommon. They were significantly worse than the ONS ones but they saw some amount of play in the "Standard" of the day, as well as old Extended. I'm fairly certain if they were reprinted in Shadows they would see play in that Standard as well.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:40
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Elyv posted:Purely from memory: Wake played skycloud expanse Betrayers did have one playable fixing land in tendo ice bridge, which worked especially well with the karoos in ravnica. LOR also had pseudo duals in the vivid lands which kind of defined a major player in that format along with reflecting pool. Zoness fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 10:02
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So apparently you can bet money on the pro-tour? http://www.pinnaclesports.com/en/odds/specials/magic-the-gathering/pro-tour-oath-of-the-gatewatch Where's the value here? I feel like a multi-bet against a bunch of the pros making top8 might be decent?
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Feb 4, 2016 10:03
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There is no value. That's why people run betting sites.
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Feb 4, 2016 10:07
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the one thing that gets to me about all this mtg finance talk is that it's stuff that wotc really isn't making money off. assume for a moment that (a) there are no legal repercussions to tearing up the reserved list and (b) the number of people who actually purchase magic products from wotc won't significantly go down if they do so. then wouldn't they make boatloads of money from doing the following:
obviously all pie-in-the-sky stuff but i think wotc could really get a lot more money out of this game by taking advantage of the fact that there are three massive formats in their game they aren't selling the game pieces for. this is leaving aside the obvious segment of the market that they're losing by modo being a pile of bolted-together crap.
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Feb 4, 2016 10:16
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You all really over estimate the importance Magic. In Hasbro's money making machine, this doesn't even come close to the profits My Little Pony makes on a yearly basis and it's not even the top franchise. Second off, why fix something that isn't broken? The machine still works and as much as it affects you, it doesn't affect the larger picture. Plus, changes incur major risks as far as advertising and longevity goes. Third, when you're already doing well at business, why do something to change that? There is no incentive for Wizards to change up things if they know they're going to continue making a decent bit of profit. Heck, introducing Legacy or more Modern reprints only tends to fracture their player base and rose out of necessity of hardcore fans. This is all more of symptom of how well the game is doing.
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Feb 4, 2016 10:49
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Does anyone have a company they can recommend for decent quality proxies? Not for use at sanctioned events of course.
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Feb 4, 2016 11:02
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rabidsquid posted:There is no value. That's why people run betting sites. This isn't true. It's very possible to be a winning sports better, just very very hard. When you have markets that are very new or niche the bookmaker of more likely to have made a mistake. I'm not smart enough to work out of that's the case here, but I bet some find are. What're the odds of making top 8, assuming the results are random?
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Feb 4, 2016 11:28
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Ramos posted:You all really over estimate the importance Magic. In Hasbro's money making machine, this doesn't even come close to the profits My Little Pony makes on a yearly basis and it's not even the top franchise. Second off, why fix something that isn't broken? The machine still works and as much as it affects you, it doesn't affect the larger picture. Plus, changes incur major risks as far as advertising and longevity goes. Third, when you're already doing well at business, why do something to change that? There is no incentive for Wizards to change up things if they know they're going to continue making a decent bit of profit. Heck, introducing Legacy or more Modern reprints only tends to fracture their player base and rose out of necessity of hardcore fans. it doesn't matter how important magic is to hasbro (though it's one of five or six of hasbro's biggest gaming brands, so it will be managed strictly). maximising revenues is what companies do. a very substantial proportion of the amount players of Magic: the Gathering spend on the game doesn't ever reach WotC's pockets, and it's only because WotC sticks to increasingly outdated printing/reprinting policies that it doesn't get a cut of this market. (that's all assuming legacy and vintage survive as formats that people still want to buy into — there's also the growing sense that WotC has to intervene to stop the formats from dying)
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Feb 4, 2016 11:40
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newtestleper posted:This isn't true. It's very possible to be a winning sports better, just very very hard. When you have markets that are very new or niche the bookmaker of more likely to have made a mistake. depends on the size of the tournament. PT: Origins had 400 people so the odds of any one of them making t8 is 2% (assuming equal skill/deck selection/halitosis).
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Feb 4, 2016 11:50
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Angry Grimace posted:A bunch of people insisted Scry 1 lands were not playable period. They're really bad on their own and unless SOI has great duals we're going to enter the Spring Of lovely Mana
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Feb 4, 2016 13:42
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Barry Shitpeas posted:They're really bad on their own and unless SOI has great duals we're going to enter the Spring Of lovely Mana Thank gently caress.
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Feb 4, 2016 13:46
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Barry Shitpeas posted:They're really bad on their own and unless SOI has great duals we're going to enter the Spring Of lovely Mana I would be 110% okay with this. Mana is ridiculous right now and maybe it'll bring 1-2 colour decks back (Atarka Red notwithstanding) into the spotlight.
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Feb 4, 2016 13:53
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I think they could reprint the enemy checklands from original Innistrad, they seem like they could have interesting interplay with the battlelands but won't lead to the level of fixing we have now. You can play a checkland T2 after a basic but you're still a basic from being able to play battlelands untapped, but the battlelands satisfy the criteria for untapped checklands.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:11
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A filterland reprint would be good, as it would promote colourless mana as well. Checklands would end up fine, but a bit boring. Reminds me of INN-RTR but slower.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:25
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What about typed duals that ETBT unless you discard a card? Plays well with madness.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:27
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I think SOI has to have allied lands, probably ones that can come in untapped on turn 1. As it stands allied colours will have ETBT lands and battlelands (basically just ETBT with fetchlands gone), while enemy colours have painlands and manlands; painlands are obviously good with C, while manlands are just straight up better than ETBT. I could see the second set having the checklands though
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Feb 4, 2016 14:30
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newtestleper posted:So apparently you can bet money on the pro-tour? Will Owen Turtenwald make Top 8? I want to bet no on this just out of spite.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:54
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It's time for that Calciform Pools reprint imo
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Feb 4, 2016 14:59
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Niton posted:Scalding Tarn is about eighteen times rarer than a MM2 Tarmogoyf was. I would not be surprised if, when all is said and done, BFZ was opened that much more often, thanks to both the length of the format and the ill-advised enforced scarcity of MM2. You can purchase MM2 sealed boxes off massdrop and other places for $190-200 all day. It's not scarce. It's just not that valuable a set and people aren't buying many boxes of it at the moment because it's smarter to just get the singles. After the initial hype ran out of steam, unless the value creeps higher while boxes stay at $200, they will likely not sell because it's just an ok draft set.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:09
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Lancelot posted:it doesn't matter how important magic is to hasbro (though it's one of five or six of hasbro's biggest gaming brands, so it will be managed strictly). maximising revenues is what companies do. a very substantial proportion of the amount players of Magic: the Gathering spend on the game doesn't ever reach WotC's pockets, and it's only because WotC sticks to increasingly outdated printing/reprinting policies that it doesn't get a cut of this market. Reprinting staples for non-rotating formats in high volume is not without risks. As more and more players have access to the non-rotating format they are less motivated to buy new product. It's a problem other CCG's have encountered. Wizards doesn't want Magic to become like Yugioh where old staples are routinely printed heavily, banned, and something new and more broken is printed to maintain the demand for new product. They are reprinting stuff at a pretty conservative pace but their reprints help push sales of new product, they are coming at the tail end of a ridiculous period of rapid growth. I just don't see where they motivation to start loving with their current strategy would come from except for "some guys who still buy piles of our product complain about it on the internet"
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Feb 4, 2016 15:14
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Probably because Standard attendance has cratered multiple times in the recent year or two. I don't know, maybe that's bad??? edit: I mean they are literally transparently stuffing double secret mythics in to their latest sets because they are concerned about sales.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:20
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GP's are still 2000+ people regularly, I don't think you can really call attendance "cratering"
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Feb 4, 2016 15:32
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