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Tatum Girlparts posted:When their first example is one of Lawrence Lessig's disciples I'm not sure how solid a case this is, but yea, awesome, let's see if Sanders can actually cultivate this because a lot of his revolution talk is hands off and that worries me. I hope Bernie keeps up his funding even after he's elected president and turns it into a "fund progressives I endorse" fund People love throwing money at him, hell I threw Benjamin Franklin at him.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:22
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Yoshifan823 posted:lol if you think the big companies wouldn't just take that fine the only way fines work is if they are scaled to the size of the company, so the biggest ones have to pay a massive amount.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:22
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Bass Bottles posted:Yeah I don't really get people thinking this debate was bad. really, i could have listened to a second hour of bickering about the definition of 'progressive' maybe we could have watched bernie look up the definition on his phone
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Feb 5, 2016 05:23
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HiHo ChiRho posted:This, coupled with with the analysis that millennials are more liberal is where things get interesting. So we may get a political revolution after all. Once all the olds die off at least. So maybe not for a few election cycles. We need to freeze Warren's brain so we can build SOCIALISTBOT9000 to run in 2024
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Feb 5, 2016 05:23
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Neurolimal posted:The gently caress do you think Bernie is? Yeah Bernie remember a year ago to this day polled 7% in Iowa. He split the delegates basically there and most likely won the popular vote by a good margin.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:23
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Bad Caller posted:Nah he's mentioned it a few times in a few of his stumps, "I can't do it without you" is pretty much saying "loving VOTE ME SOME PROGRESSIVES IN" Clinton raised $5m for down-ticket races in January alone. Sanders raised $0.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:23
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Neurolimal posted:The gently caress do you think Bernie is? One person can't do that alone though. Bernie's path to success is exactly the one that should be taken, but you can't have one person do that and expect the entire country to coalesce around it. Bernie is not the political revolution, he's the beginning of one. John the Baptist, not Jesus, if I'm gonna make a real bad analogy.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:23
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Neurolimal posted:The gently caress do you think Bernie is? It's not about what he's done you idiot it's about how well he can support others. Bad Caller posted:I hope Bernie keeps up his funding even after he's elected president and turns it into a "fund progressives I endorse" fund Yea pretty much.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:23
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Not a Step posted:Once all the olds die off at least. So maybe not for a few election cycles. We need to freeze Warren's brain so we can build SOCIALISTBOT9000 to run in 2024 I will run in 2024 and my forums post history will ruin my career. Book it.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:24
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Not a Step posted:Once all the olds die off at least. So maybe not for a few election cycles. We need to freeze Warren's brain so we can build SOCIALISTBOT9000 to run in 2024 I goddamn hate when people think we're all going to get "more conservative" as we get older. Like come on, when stuff is still bad for our generation we aren't magically going to turn on ourselves. Millenials despite the tumblr and other hug boxes are far better informed youth generation than any before it.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:24
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Bad Caller posted:I hope Bernie keeps up his funding even after he's elected president and turns it into a "fund progressives I endorse" fund Yeah, this poo poo's way bigger than Bernie himself. He's at the forefront of it, but it's so important that this momentum keeps up even after November.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:25
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Tatum Girlparts posted:It's not about what he's done you idiot it's about how well he can support others. Serious suggestion- read up on how Bernie fared as mayor of Burlington. He initially faced a lack of 'team support' after his 'upset victory' but soon enough public pressure either voter in supportive people or they had to turn around and support him. Because its what people supported.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:25
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This debate was a lot clearer than I thought. I'm glad Sanders and Hillary don't fight as much as their supporters do.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:26
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Mitt Romney posted:Clinton raised $5m for down-ticket races in January alone. Sanders raised $0. Sanders also doesn't have big super pac money, and his pac money is from unions that are pennies compared to what Hillary rakes in to fund his campaign, and needs his donors money currently to compete against the Clinton political machine, which is incredibly well-oiled. 5 million is nothing to Hillary's purse.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:26
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Yoshifan823 posted:One person can't do that alone though. Bernie's path to success is exactly the one that should be taken, but you can't have one person do that and expect the entire country to coalesce around it. Bernie is not the political revolution, he's the beginning of one. John the Baptist, not Jesus, if I'm gonna make a real bad analogy. Then support Bernie to see how far he can get and inspire other leftists that they have national support if they'd just rise up? Then primary Hillary from the left in 2020 if he loses 
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Feb 5, 2016 05:26
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Bad Caller posted:I goddamn hate when people think we're all going to get "more conservative" as we get older. Like come on, when stuff is still bad for our generation we aren't magically going to turn on ourselves. Millenials despite the tumblr and other hug boxes are far better informed youth generation than any before it. Yeah, the whole "if you're not liberal when you're young you have no heart, if you're not conservative when you're old you have no brain" thing is something that needs to die. At my caucus, there was a guy who graduated from the same high school as I did about 65 years ago with a Bernie sticker on his shirt. He's awesome, and if you turn conservative when you get older, you can get hosed.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:26
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Rexicon1 posted:China wants a word with you. *for socially desirable definitions of socialism
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Feb 5, 2016 05:27
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If Bernie was a woman or a minority other than jewish and younger Hillary would have no chance at this point. Honestly it's amazing such an unappealing candidate has gotten this far, but hey at least he got me to care about local politics to try and get involved in my local rural town.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:27
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Not a Step posted:Then support Bernie to see how far he can get and inspire other leftists that they have national support if they'd just rise up? This is where I point out that I"m a Sanders supporter and was elected as a Sanders delegate for my Caucus. That's basically the tact that I'm taking, but with a healthy dose of "don't turn yourself off of Hillary because if she is the nominee you drat sure better vote for her lest we end up with President Trump or worse".
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Feb 5, 2016 05:28
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Yoshifan823 posted:Yeah, the whole "if you're not liberal when you're young you have no heart, if you're not conservative when you're old you have no brain" thing is something that needs to die. At my caucus, there was a guy who graduated from the same high school as I did about 65 years ago with a Bernie sticker on his shirt. He's awesome, and if you turn conservative when you get older, you can get hosed. People are more aware and connected with poverty than they once were, because of the internet. You can't just easily ignore it with a white picket fence and staying in suburbia now. Even in 2008 poverty was not talked about as much as it is this debate. There are steps forward. Still kind of wish Liz Warren could be the first female president, but oh well if Hillary gets that "historic first".
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Feb 5, 2016 05:28
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Tatum Girlparts posted:It's not about what he's done you idiot it's about how well he can support others. And he's apparently inspiring others to run for local positions, going off the recently linked articles. Do you expect him to just dump all his campaign funds into other races while Hillary wins?
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Feb 5, 2016 05:29
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mormonpartyboat posted:really, i could have listened to a second hour of bickering about the definition of 'progressive' Bernie gave a lot of bad answers, yeah. I feel like he's really good at explaining things college liberals are passionate about, and are thrilled to hear mentioned on television. But his answers never make me feel like he has serious, attainable, thought-out plans for how to get there. Hillary actually gets more in depth about actual action she has taken in the past, and seems like she has specific ideas for going forward. A Sanders presidency would be like Obama pushback x 100. He's not going to be able to accomplish any of this and people will cry about it for years. Edit: I mean, I like him and I'll happily vote for him if he wins. But I think I like Hillary more. Bass Bottles has issued a correction as of 05:32 on Feb 5, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 05:30
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Yoshifan823 posted:This is where I point out that I"m a Sanders supporter and was elected as a Sanders delegate for my Caucus. That's basically the tact that I'm taking, but with a healthy dose of "don't turn yourself off of Hillary because if she is the nominee you drat sure better vote for her lest we end up with President Trump or worse". Rubio is the only one remotely not super damaging compared to Trump or Cruz, and even then it'd be bad/uncomfortable for a lot of people.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:30
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Bad Caller posted:People love throwing money at him, hell I threw Benjamin Franklin at him. Yeah I keep on throwing him a bone every so often. Hillary doesn't need it, and I like idea of her scrambling for more fundraisers to keep up with the Sanderstorm. He's the first campaign I've ever thrown money at. It's better than jpeg ships at least.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:30
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Bad Caller posted:People are more aware and connected with poverty than they once were, because of the internet. You can't just easily ignore it with a white picket fence and staying in suburbia now. Yeah, I just imagine what we would know about this whole issue in Flint if it happened 30 years ago. I guess the settlements in Baltimore would be something to look at, but on a much worse scale. The internet is p cool.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:31
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Yoshifan823 posted:This is where I point out that I"m a Sanders supporter and was elected as a Sanders delegate for my Caucus. That's basically the tact that I'm taking, but with a healthy dose of "don't turn yourself off of Hillary because if she is the nominee you drat sure better vote for her lest we end up with President Trump or worse". As a deep red state resident the electoral college allows me to waste my vote however I want without fear of affecting anything at all, so I can waste my national vote on showing my irritation in the meaningless popular vote. Also my dumb state hates third parties so I can't even go that direction.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:31
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Bass Bottles posted:Bernie gave a lot of bad answers, yeah. Issue I have with Hillary is she flat out lied about her campaign site having any policies on healthcare written out, because it seriously doesn't or didn't at the time. Bernie's website does go into pretty good depth without becoming bill lingo that the average american can't understand.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:31
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Joementum posted:I agree with Bernie on basically every domestic issue... except campaign finance reform. Bernie Sanders wants to force you to rely upon the public sector, yet refuses to take public funding for his campaign.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:32
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Bass Bottles posted:A Sanders presidency would be like Obama pushback x 100. He's not going to be able to accomplish any of this and people will cry about it for years. See this is what I don't get. You've seen how the republicans attack Hillary constantly, what makes you thing she is going to get more done than Obama or Sanders or even her husband with a tight senate and locked red House?
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Feb 5, 2016 05:32
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Not a Step posted:As a deep red state resident the electoral college allows me to waste my vote however I want without fear of affecting anything at all, so I can waste my national vote on showing my irritation in the meaningless popular vote. Also my dumb state hates third parties so I can't even go that direction. I live in Iowa, which is one of those states that the Republicans would have to win to get the white house, so I get to be the guy throwing water on the "well I"m gonna vote for Jill Stein" parade by threatening President Ted Cruz and Secretary of Homeland Security Sarah Palin.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:33
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Not a Step posted:As a deep red state resident the electoral college allows me to waste my vote however I want without fear of affecting anything at all, so I can waste my national vote on showing my irritation in the meaningless popular vote. Also my dumb state hates third parties so I can't even go that direction. Same here, I hope beyond Bernie's platform we look to more representative reforms so third parties could get thrown a bone. FPTP is garbage. I also wouldn't be mad if we codified party procedures in the constitution but lol at constitutional reform ever happening when the ERA is still unable to pass because the wicked witch of the midwest got people long ago to agree with her bullshit
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Feb 5, 2016 05:33
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Yoshifan823 posted:I live in Iowa, which is one of those states that the Republicans would have to win to get the white house, so I get to be the guy throwing water on the "well I"m gonna vote for Jill Stein" parade by threatening President Ted Cruz and Secretary of Homeland Security Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin would be better off in the Department of the Interior making North Dakota drinking water even more flammable
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Feb 5, 2016 05:34
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Bass Bottles posted:Bernie gave a lot of bad answers, yeah. Sanders and Hillary's plans have an equal chance of making it through congress. As for actual legislation he's made clear what he wants to do (and if you're the kind of dude who screams DEBT!!!! You're a dullard who doesn't understand how government finance works), and has a history of dealing with hostile parties from the bleachers. At the very least, a vote for Sanders is a vote opposing TPP and more war involvement, as well as a reminder that the Left belongs to the Leftists, not the center-rights.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:34
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HiHo ChiRho posted:See this is what I don't get. You've seen how the republicans attack Hillary constantly, what makes you thing she is going to get more done than Obama or Sanders or even her husband with a tight senate and locked red House? Because she is a moderate with experience on working through the system in Washington. Sanders would be like throwing a croc into a river of hippos.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:34
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They just played that soundclip of "Senator Sanders is the only person who would describe me, a woman, as part of the Establishment." Thats still absolutely hilarious. I, Hillary Clinton, wife of President Bill Clinton, senator from New York, Secretary of State, professional speaker on the Wall Street circuit, can't possibly be part of the Establishment because I'm a *woman*! Truly the most progressive candidate.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:35
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Bad Caller posted:Same here, I hope beyond Bernie's platform we look to more representative reforms so third parties could get thrown a bone. FPTP is garbage. The fact that Canada is moving to reform FPTP is huge. At bare minimum it means the issue will get on the news and hundreds of thousands of Americans will actually learn for the first time that other voting systems exist and that they can change.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:35
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My Imaginary GF posted:Because she is a moderate with experience on working through the system in Washington. Sanders has a history of getting amendments that were good things* onto bills though and he even mentioned on VA stuff how he crossed the line and worked with Republicans. He also doesn't go around slinging mud at them like the easy target he could. He could arguably do just as well as Hillary.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:35
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Bad Caller posted:Same here, I hope beyond Bernie's platform we look to more representative reforms so third parties could get thrown a bone. FPTP is garbage. FPTP is absolutely loving awesome. Look at Venezuela to see what happens when you get rid of representative government.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:35
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My Imaginary GF posted:FPTP is absolutely loving awesome. Look at Venezuela to see what happens when you get rid of representative government. what
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Feb 5, 2016 05:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:FPTP is absolutely loving awesome. Look at Venezuela to see what happens when you get rid of representative government. I honestly don't get this post, because FPTP would be replaced hopefully with Mixed-member proportional representation like in Germany or Sweden, where diverse parties do actually happen even if they have to make "coalitions".
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Feb 5, 2016 05:37
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