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It is pretty interesting just how much people emphasize the youngling slaughter in Episode 3 when we're told directly that he slaughtered a bunch of women and children in Episode 2. Obviously, there's the "they killed my mom!" aspect, but the women (or at least definitely the children) didn't kill his mom, and we know he knows it. We all understand his rage, but there's seriously no way that justified him killing a bunch of kids. And yet no one really complained about it until he did it again to human kids. I get that people say they don't get the motivation in Episode 3 in the first place, but I think we should be pretty well aware that Anakin has gone far beyond the point where he's really squeamish about killing a lot of people.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:05
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SMG- What do you make of Vader's Silence when he kills the Separatist Council on Mustafar? No "For The Republic! Or "that's that you get for trying to kill my girlfriend!" or "Hey Gunray, remember me? I blew up your droid control ship 20 years age!" Edit- Now that I think about it, what is there no antagonistic relation between Gunray and Anakin? Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 01:08
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What exact theme plays when Rey catches the light saber from Kylo.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:09
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Frackie Robinson posted:The only thing that seems like a leap to me is that Anakin would side with Palpatine even after connecting the dots that he single-handedly orchestrated the clone wars. Anakin's a pretty strong believer in the Republic (in principle if not in how it works), so it seems like the fact that Palpatine's treachery has been the reason for this war that Anakin's been fighting for years would be enough for Anakin to turn on him forever. Unless you assume he's just planning to double-cross Palpatine the first chance he gets. It was my understanding that he was going to double-cross Palpatine the first chance he got, it's just that after getting burned and mutilated and put in a walking life-support system, if he tried to kill Palpatine he'd most likely be killed himself. It wasn't until he sees his son getting electrocuted that he decided that killing Sheev is more important than preserving his own life.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:10
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Martman posted:It is pretty interesting just how much people emphasize the youngling slaughter in Episode 3 when we're told directly that he slaughtered a bunch of women and children in Episode 2. Obviously, there's the "they killed my mom!" aspect, but the women (or at least definitely the children) didn't kill his mom, and we know he knows it. We all understand his rage, but there's seriously no way that justified him killing a bunch of kids. And yet no one really complained about it until he did it again to human kids.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:12
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Palpatine told Anakin he has to kill the kids to save Padme so it makes sense.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:13
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Easy: sandpeople aren't people, duh. Anakin also murders the family of the droids when he runs around their factory. But those are space bugs.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:14
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euphronius posted:Palpatine told Anakin he has to kill the kids to save Padme so it makes sense. Doesn't that come after he's like, "Uh, I actually don't know how to perform a C-Section. But I'm suuuuure by worrrrking togetherrrrr, we can uncover the secreeeeet."
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Feb 7, 2016 01:15
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The slaughter of the younglings is linked to the Sandpeople. He kills the Sandpeople for his mom and the younglings for his wife.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:16
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euphronius posted:The slaughter of the younglings is linked to the Sandpeople. He kills the Sandpeople for his mom and the younglings for his wife. Yeah but why on a plot/character level?
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Feb 7, 2016 01:18
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He just told you.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:19
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I'm pretty sure Palpatine has admitted he lied about the secret to life thing at that point, like I said. Or am I getting the order wrong?
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Feb 7, 2016 01:21
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porfiria posted:Doesn't that come after he's like, "Uh, I actually don't know how to perform a C-Section. But I'm suuuuure by worrrrking togetherrrrr, we can uncover the secreeeeet." Right after he becomes DV Palpatine says something like you need to increase your dark power levels, bro.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:21
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I can't find the script online anymore . Alas.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:22
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quote:PALPATINE: To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret. I took this to be obvious BS both to Anakin and the audience (it never really comes up again), but maybe not.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:25
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porfiria posted:I took this to be obvious BS both to Anakin and the audience (it never really comes up again), but maybe not. Like everything he says its kind of true.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:27
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I've mentioned it before but it's kinda tragic how everything instantly goes wrong for Anakin when he joins Palpatine. Maimed by his best friend, his wife is dead and he lost his kids.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:29
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McCloud posted:I'd rather say the opposite. He was wrong and only interested in sparing his life for selfish reasons. Sheev was to dangerous to let live, and if Mace dropped his guard and Anakin had sided with Mace Shev would have tried to kill them both. sheve was at no point able to kill mace from what we saw, mace believed he could arrest sheeve he, chose not to because he was angry
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Feb 7, 2016 01:29
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I've mentioned it before but it's kinda tragic how everything instantly goes wrong for Anakin when he joins Palpatine. Maimed by his best friend, his wife is dead and he lost his kids. Rad costume though
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Feb 7, 2016 01:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Because he would do anything to serve Padme - including destroying his own soul. Totally on point. And he's drawing on the same sorts of emotions during his duel with Luke in Empire.   Vader looks at Luke and all he sees is the hated Anakin Skywalker. Despite his efforts to eradicate all traces of his past self, he's inescapably reminded of it whenever he looks at Luke. He's reminded of what he used to be, and of how much unrealized human potential he possessed before he lost all his limbs. Of course Vader can't handle this, because he has to believe he made the right choice in giving up his humanity, and that Luke and Obi-Wan are the true weaklings. So what does Vader do? He self-therapizes by symbolically castrating his own son: The Making of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back posted:“I was very concerned about the ending, that it might be too intense for small children,” Lucas says. “That is a pretty intense moment and basically a castration scene. But I spoke to a number of psychologists who basically said that most kids, if it’s too intense, will simply deny that Vader is Luke’s father. But I was also concerned about leaving kids hanging.” People need to remember that Vader is an incredibly insecure, incredibly hosed up dude. It is absolutely, 100% believable that he used to be Hayden Christensen. Martman posted:It is pretty interesting just how much people emphasize the youngling slaughter in Episode 3 when we're told directly that he slaughtered a bunch of women and children in Episode 2. Obviously, there's the "they killed my mom!" aspect, but the women (or at least definitely the children) didn't kill his mom, and we know he knows it. We all understand his rage, but there's seriously no way that justified him killing a bunch of kids. And yet no one really complained about it until he did it again to human kids. The weird thing is that people assume there even was a way to ever justify Anakin killing a bunch of kids. What could the movie possibly have done differently in order to satisfy these people? There is no possible justification for killing innocent children. It's an illustration of just how much Anakin has allowed his emotional greed to dictate his actions. He commits the most heinous crime imaginable, all in the name of love. Padme is going to die in childbirth. It's the children's fault Padme has to die. It's the children's fault that the old has to give way to the new. It's the children's fault that things have to grow and change and ultimately transform into the Force. So he kills the children. It should be noted that George Lucas is a great admirer of David Lynch's Eraserhead, another highly metaphorical film which deals with the psychological horrors of childbirth from a father's perspective. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 01:57
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Since I know we're all wondering it, I'm gonna go ahead and ask it- does Vader's dick still work?
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Feb 7, 2016 02:00
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euphronius posted:What exact theme plays when Rey catches the light saber from Kylo. It's a version of the Force theme, specifically the "Burning Homestead" cue from A New Hope.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:05
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Empress Theonora posted:They say it's Hosnian Prime-- but also that that's the current capital of the Republic, not Coruscant. Bleh. Considering that Abrams blew up Vulcan and the entire star fleet sans enterprise, ima blame Disney for this lameness.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:24
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It's so weird that they left in the shot from the destruction of Hosnian prime that zooms in on the actress who got cut from the movie entirely, it's like "are we supposed to know who this woman is?"
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Feb 7, 2016 02:28
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aBagorn posted:It's a version of the Force theme, specifically the "Burning Homestead" cue from A New Hope. Thank you friend
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Feb 7, 2016 02:39
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That was by the way the most memorable scene in the movie for me.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:43
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Elfgames posted:sheve was at no point able to kill mace from what we saw, mace believed he could arrest sheeve he, chose not to because he was angry Yeah while Palpatine is of course playing up being extra helpless to get Anakin's help, despite him being very skilled Mace beats him pretty handily. Can you imagine how different the galaxy would be if Mace was just like "Yeah good idea Anakin we could use the extra help and you're really important to us come us" when they went to arrest him?
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Feb 7, 2016 04:12
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Neo Rasa posted:Yeah while Palpatine is of course playing up being extra helpless to get Anakin's help, despite him being very skilled Mace beats him pretty handily. Can you imagine how different the galaxy would be if Mace was just like "Yeah good idea Anakin we could use the extra help and you're really important to us come us" when they went to arrest him? The Jedi could have taken their rightful place as Republic Taliban
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Feb 7, 2016 04:19
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"Dedicated to the brave fighters of the Jedi Council" would have to be removed from the Return of the Jedi opening credits.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:20
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Frackie Robinson posted:The Jedi could have taken their rightful place as Republic Taliban Nah, based on the political structure of the Jedi I think it'd be more like Iran with Mace Windu at the top and the rest of the council becoming the Assembly of Experts who must approve any candidate running for office and select the next supreme ruler.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:20
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Like TFA was much too fast and yeah Maz is really strange but man the saber battles at the end are really good.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:36
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Just finished watching Ep3 again and it seems worse these days. The complaint about TFA moving too fast applies here too, there really is no room to breathe until the very end. Which I must say, works really well - the end that is. But it's just rapid plot development from the space fight, to killing Dooku, meeting Grievous then crash landing. And the fall of Anakin happened much sooner than I expected. Anakin's fall isnt earned though - like a spastic child, suddenly he's insanely evil. The sandtrooper thing -- while BAD -- is understandable, no? What would you do if you found out your mother had been kidnapped and you had the power/resources to get her and exact revenge. But here --- "the Jedi hosed you and I over!! KILL EVERY SINGLE ONE!!" "...yes, master". Anakin was still swaying between the light and dark before Mace was even killed. And the murder of all the separatists on Mustafar was just hokey and mean spirited - "go raise your dark side points until your eyes turn yellow". DING. But the eyes turn back once Obi Wan comes - he hasn't found a way to maintain that hatred -- until his legs get chopped off and his eyes redden. Anyways, I can see enjoying the shots and Obi-Wan is probably one of the only good things here (Palpatine is a joke and generally comically evil - it doesn't fit. I guess if you enjoy someone hamming it up but I dont get the praise. But they might as well add him farting on Yoda as he slowly gets up after being blasted by lightning. "...ooops, was that me?!? *cackles*" He was more menacing in his brief scenes in the OT). This thread made me try to look at it from the people who really like the entire PT - esp. since this is regarded as being, "the good one" by many who do not like the movies. I can't find much to like. Thankfully the Clone Wars series is really drat good and we can be thankful it existed because of these movies.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:39
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They needed to take out or consolidate Dooku/Grievous into one character because they both just waste a bunch of time.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:42
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No,no. AOTC is the "good one" winter song.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:44
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euphronius posted:No,no. AOTC is the "good one" winter song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1DcD8e55YY
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Feb 7, 2016 04:49
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Frackie Robinson posted:The Jedi could have taken their rightful place as Republic Taliban i don't think so, if mace kills palpatine then sure, but by not striking him down in anger he doesn't go to the dark side he can pull back. Yoda explicitly doesn't want to take over so mace would probably defer to him, maybe the republic crumbles, maybe it just changes.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:46
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Vintersorg posted:Anakin's fall isnt earned though - like a spastic child, suddenly he's insanely evil. The sandtrooper thing -- while BAD -- is understandable, no? What would you do if you found out your mother had been kidnapped and you had the power/resources to get her and exact revenge. Not commit genocide? Maybe killing the sand-people directly involved would be understandable, but he killed them all including their kids (and the woman he loved was pretty much ok with it). And so when he became an outlaw within the Jedi ranks he killed them all too, including their child soldiers.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:50
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Vintersorg posted:
This is funny in light of a primary complaint of the PT - that Anakin wasn't this heroic guy who suddenly fell to the dark side.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:24
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At the end of Phantom Menace, Anakin - an eight-year-old child - kills well over 300,000 people. Roughly a dozen are actually shown being shot, crushed, or burnt to death onscreen - with hundreds more deaths shown indirectly. And that's not counting all the battle droids on the planet, who have their minds wiped.ungulateman posted:Quick question, SMG - how does Darth Vader offering to 'rule the galaxy as father and son' with Luke factor into this? Anakin's plan for Padme was to make her into an Empress, while Vader's plan for Luke is to ally with the Rebellion and destroy the Empire - and only on Vader's terms. it's obviously a very different situation. Vader has fully learned from Anakin's mistakes. There's no more of his "I'm doing this all for you. I'll do anything you ask!" stuff. Vader is done serving people. He's just like, brutally, "here is the truth: the Rebellion is no good. Only a far more radical approach can actually defeat the Emperor." And he's entirely correct about that. Luke certainly reminds Vader of himself when he was that age, as Cnut pointed out. That's really always been the case (though I disagree with Cnut's conclusion - it is Luke, not Vader, who is insecure and in denial). But the prequels do give a twist to the scene in Episode 6, when Vader taunts Luke by threatening to convert Leia instead. In the full context, we can understand that Vader is confronting Luke with that exact same fantasy/nightmare of being ruled by an Empress, in order to point out the ideological failures of the Rebellion. "In place of a Dark Lord, you would have a queen! Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the dawn!" Baron Porkface posted:SMG- What do you make of Vader's Silence when he kills the Separatist Council on Mustafar? No "For The Republic! Or "that's that you get for trying to kill my girlfriend!" or "Hey Gunray, remember me? I blew up your droid control ship 20 years age!" I think it's another case of Anakin being very dispassionate as he goes about killing everyone. Anakin is commonly interpreted as an impulsive idiot, when he's actually a very thoughtful person who simply happens to have an unusual and twisted personal philosophy: Anakin: Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi's life. So, you might say that we are encouraged to love. As I noted previously, it's exactly this 'unconditional love' for everyone that leads him to to the conclusion that he must 'make everyone agree'. Revenge Of The Sith makes this abundantly clear, with Hayden Christensen's greatest creepy line delivery: Anakin: Love won't save you, Padme. Only my new powers can do that. Compassion, which Anakin would define as the use of power to help people, is essential to a Sith's life. (The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power). So, you might say that he is encouraged to take power. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 10:53
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computer parts posted:This is funny in light of a primary complaint of the PT - that Anakin wasn't this heroic guy who suddenly fell to the dark side. Yeah, he doesn't "fall", he's a terrible person from the start.
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Feb 7, 2016 16:20
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