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I would just like to say I watched Frank Lepore stream once and he seemed obnoxious Thanks for listening because I'm sure you all care
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Feb 7, 2016 01:19
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Angry Grimace posted:The problem isn't even how oppressive it is (it is clearly oppressive just by watching people play it), its that Reality Smasher and Thought-Knot Seer fundamentally break the rules the format because the lands produce multiple mana with literally no drawback. I'm certainly going to try it. It kinda sucks that I don't have any City of Traitors though. I also think I only have 2 Mox Diamonds.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:19
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BizarroAzrael posted:It might be closer to Jeskai Ascendancy yet, the format might just shift around to deal with it.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:20
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Nominee for most correct post
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Feb 7, 2016 01:21
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Eldrazi decks are insanely busted and are only going to get better as people optimize them more and develop more variants. The meta is going to try to adjust, but I don't know how you can gameplan against creatures that come out two turns earlier than they are supposed to and have upsides that makes them trade favorably with removal spells. Combos or sweepers seem like the only way but you still have to deal with Thought-Knot Seer. Temple and Eye are going to eat bans, imo.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:27
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Did any of the Eldrazi players that made T8 get all their losses in Modern and get in by 3-0ing both drafts? That can happen sometimes with the PT format.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:28
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This is going to be like Cruise/Dig in Legacy where Eye is going to eat a near immediate ban, and Temple is going to go away a season later.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:29
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If they ban eye that hurts Tron too, I think they'd be more likely to ban Eldrazi Temple or Thought-Knot Seer. Unless they don't care about hurting Tron.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:29
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Entropic posted:Did any of the Eldrazi players that made T8 get all their losses in Modern and get in by 3-0ing both drafts? That can happen sometimes with the PT format.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:30
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Entropic posted:Did any of the Eldrazi players that made T8 get all their losses in Modern and get in by 3-0ing both drafts? That can happen sometimes with the PT format. Lepore 6-0'd draft. The fact that the UR Eldrazi deck demonstrates you can you can be competitive with pretty much any creature with the type line "Eldrazi" does not help imo. Entropic posted:If they ban eye that hurts Tron too, I think they'd be more likely to ban Eldrazi Temple or Thought-Knot Seer. Agreed, Eye is also Legendary, which limits how busted it can really get.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:36
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black potus posted:This hand's gonna win it all this sunday: This is a strange coincidence, I'm running a charity draft to help the cat adoption center I volunteer at, and was just looking through the list of cat creatures to see if I could make a "From the Vault: Cats" to raffle off. 
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Feb 7, 2016 01:36
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Entropic posted:Did any of the Eldrazi players that made T8 get all their losses in Modern and get in by 3-0ing both drafts? That can happen sometimes with the PT format. With a quick check, draft totals: Shuhei 6-0 Floch 4-2 Brown 4-2 LSV 4-2 Maynard 4-2 Dickmann 3-3 Lepore 6-0 Tao 3-3
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Feb 7, 2016 01:37
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suicidesteve posted:I'm certainly going to try it. It kinda sucks that I don't have any City of Traitors though. I also think I only have 2 Mox Diamonds. I went 5-2 at the Columbus Legacy Prize Wall Nonsense tourney last weekend with basically the same creatures.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:48
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"Maybe the Eldrazi decks all just got lucky in limited" is not a good look.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:51
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Angry Grimace posted:They've shown before they're willing to ban obviously busted interactions like when Cruise and Dig were legal. Ian Duke even said that the Eye/Temple thing was busted on camera. I'm quoting you for cancer
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Feb 7, 2016 01:51
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Angry Grimace posted:Agreed, Eye is also Legendary, which limits how busted it can really get. Eye's best case is also way, way more busted, though: it doesn't take a whole lot of work to make Eye of Ugin worth {4}, and in the lategame it's a value factory by itself.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:52
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TheKingofSprings posted:I'm quoting you for cancer It wouldn't be the first time I lost such a bet, just bring it back up if I lose.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:55
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Entropic posted:If they ban eye that hurts Tron too, I think they'd be more likely to ban Eldrazi Temple or Thought-Knot Seer. Tron is honestly really absurd right now, Eldrazi antics aside. World Breaker is unbeatable for some decks. E: Scapeshift's best option against it is letting it resolve and never killing it.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:55
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Snacksmaniac posted:I went 5-2 at the Columbus Legacy Prize Wall Nonsense tourney last weekend with basically the same creatures. You'll have to send me your list then.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:56
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Angry Grimace posted:Lepore 6-0'd draft. Temple is just a Sol land for Eldrazi. It's certainly good, but it still has pretty defined limits. Eye is effectively a Sol land that you can use for every creature you play each turn. Cast two creatures? Sweet, you got four mana from one land with no hoops to turn on crazymode, and this is on top of turning into a repeatable tutor if the game goes late. It was also never designed to interact with small colorless Eldrazi. Casting Kozilek for 8 instead of 10 is helpful, but not crazy by itself. Casting something like T2 Thought-Knot Seer or getting your three drops for one mana is insane. That said, the deck does rely heavily enough on its turbolands to be vulnerable to land hate, so we should see how the format reacts before we start tearing things apart and banning the key lands that make the deck function in the first place will probably just kill it dead...though it also remains to be seen just how reliable land hand is going to work as a sideboard option against a deck that can hit you with a Thought-Knot Seer on the play while you have one land out.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:00
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Voyager I posted:Temple is just a Sol land for Eldrazi. It's certainly good, but it still has pretty defined limits. Eye is effectively a Sol land that you can use for every creature you play each turn. Cast two creatures? Sweet, you got four mana from one land with no hoops to turn on crazymode, and this is on top of turning into a repeatable tutor if the game goes late. It was also never designed to interact with small colorless Eldrazi. Casting Kozilek for 8 instead of 10 is helpful, but not crazy by itself. Casting something like T2 Thought-Knot Seer or getting your three drops for one mana is insane. I imagine the problem is that the deck is designed to be ready to win the game before you can cast anything that destroys the land and conveniently the thing they're jamming invades your hand and exiles your land destruction, unless its Ghost Quarter, which doesn't seem super great to me.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:04
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I think the best argument for an Eye/Temple ban is that for the last several years Wizards has really tried to move away from cards that break the in-game "economy" with regards to mana. If you look at the Modern banlist a decent number of cards on it all have a mana acceleration angle- Seething Song, Chrome Mox, Cloudpost, the artifact lands (they tap for one mana but are worth two mana each for cards with Affinity) etc. That's why we never see any good rituals printed, there's some sort of underlying "one turn, one lanad, one mana" rule that's in place but I can't come up with the right way to describe it. I think Wizard's anti-land destruction policy is wrapped up in that too. Eye and Temple just haven't had anything to abuse so no one really noticed them. But I also think one PT where the deck archetype is premiering and people are still trying to figure it out does not a ban make. If 75% of the Top8 decks are Eldrazi for the next few months then probably yeah. E: Yes the Tron lands go against my thesis in a big way but that takes quite a bit of setup to work, also the fact that they haven't been printed since 9ED tells me that Wizards isn't exactly encouraging this strategy. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 02:06
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If only Modern had an easy way to destroy a nonbasic land on turn 1 without card or tempo disadvantage 
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Feb 7, 2016 02:07
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If your crucial lands can dump out your hand before t3 you aren't actually vulnerable to land hate.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:07
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Madmarker posted:How so, like removing the exile clause? I don't know how you would do that, you kind of need it to be in a zone in order to cast it. I think madness is fine, as most of the actual complexity doesn't come up 99% of the time, and when it does, it is only because two high level players are trying to exploit edge cases. Quoting from like 40 pages ago, but it seems like they actually did change the Madness rules. Madness now no longer gives you the option to discard normally. You are required to discard to exile then immediately decide to pay for it or put it in your graveyard. The older current ability is as follows: "If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” and “When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn’t, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard." The reminder text on the new cards: "If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard." Also, decklists up. http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptogw/top-8-decklists-2016-02-06 24 copies of Eldrazi Temple, Eye of Ugin, Thought Knot Seer, Reality Smasher and Eldrazi Mimic in the Top 8. Seems good. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 02:09
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Even if they ban eye and/or temple, doesnt that just mean we would have mostly affinity and infect as the top 8 instead? It wasnt like it crushing combo decks out of the tournament. It seems like Eldrazi decks may be more of a symptom of the state of modern.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:10
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Might just be the draft tho, and after all of these decks adjust and add Wastelands it will probably return to being dominated by Splinter Twin.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:10
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Modern kind of a lovely format, film at 11
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Feb 7, 2016 02:12
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I would be really surprised if the eldrazi decks have any kind of bans as this is probably the best the deck is going to be. We are not going to see any more eldrazi anytime soon while the rest of the modern decks gain potential improvments. Besides as far as fast mana goes, tron is still a thing and has potential to always get new additions. And affinity seems to have the same level of broken abilty to pump out creature and damage, and probably faster too.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:34
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Affinity also ate a bunch of bans already.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:36
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C-Euro posted:E: Yes the Tron lands go against my thesis in a big way but that takes quite a bit of setup to work, also the fact that they haven't been printed since 9ED tells me that Wizards isn't exactly encouraging this strategy. That might be less of WotC doesn't want Tron promoted and more of where the hell are they putting lands named after Urza when we've only been going to planes Urza has never been to?
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Feb 7, 2016 02:38
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Tron seems like a horrible matchup against Eldrazi to begin with and Tron requires a lot of setup which gives decks time to hate it out. The Eldrazi deck has straight-up unbeatable draws in it, like Temple, Eye, Mimic, Mimic, Thought-Knot. I don't think there is anything at all you can do to beat that.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:41
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you know i'm glad wizards got there wish with the modern pro tour and a new deck made possible with new cards happened it's a shame there will never be another modern pro tour when they announce the end of the reserve list and legacy being supported again
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Feb 7, 2016 02:41
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The Eldrazi deck is getting more cards in 18 months in Return to Return to Zendikar
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Feb 7, 2016 02:43
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Madness seems like it has a lot of flavor in Innistrad that didn't exist when for whatever reason Madness was an ability attached to Basking Rootwalla.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:45
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mandatory lesbian posted:you know i'm glad wizards got there wish with the modern pro tour and a new deck made possible with new cards happened Eternal Masters announcement tomorrow 
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Feb 7, 2016 02:45
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They're just going to announce that the next time their Standard set sucks and nobody is buying it you can trade in a crate of unopened packs for a single revised dual.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:47
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rabidsquid posted:They're just going to announce that the next time their Standard set sucks and nobody is buying it you can trade in a crate of unopened packs for a single revised dual. Actually this is too generous, there will be expeditions of the original dual lands but also Kokusho and Keiga will be on the same rare sheet as the duals.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:48
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Angry Grimace posted:Tron seems like a horrible matchup against Eldrazi to begin with and Tron requires a lot of setup which gives decks time to hate it out. The Eldrazi deck has straight-up unbeatable draws in it, like Temple, Eye, Mimic, Mimic, Thought-Knot. I don't think there is anything at all you can do to beat that. Thats's what, 4 damage and a card loss? Tron could just pyroclasm or o-stone depending on who went first. Mimic really seems easily answered. Also from my playing online, tron just seems consistently faster than eldrazi. Or maybe I just keep getting unlucky and seeing the turn-3 assembled tron. Really though, seems like we need more time for the meta to sort out. Or just unban everything and let the real party begin again.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:59
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rabidsquid posted:They're just going to announce that the next time their Standard set sucks and nobody is buying it you can trade in a crate of unopened packs for a single revised dual.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:02
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