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I think if IE get a decent mid-level AoE/utility nuke as a replacement it'll be a really easy blaster background where you can gun for freezing cloud ASAP, and it was already not that bad. It'd be more fun to see some more hybrid ideas.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:43
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IE will still be very good without condensation shield. It makes a difference, and losing it hurts, but it was also a marginally useful effect that required a lot of annoyance to maintain. I'll miss the spell more on dragonform characters, honestly. Move metabolic englaciation from the book of ice to the book of frost? Then someone, I think Dpeg, suggested an ice spell to replace ozo's armor that decreases an enemy's damage. Make that work in some limited AoE with a duration dependent on monster HD and use it to replace Ozo's armor. Then IE has to pick up some hexes, if they want to be a hybrid, but remains a very powerful start.
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Feb 8, 2016 03:06
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PleasingFungus posted:how is ozo nerf even a problem for chei.......... I'm guessing the extra slow is probably enough to change the flow of fights with enemies getting even more free turns if you need to move. More importantly, having a 2-handed weapon + condensation shield is a really nice combo, Chei-stats help drive up spell power quickly. IE is a strong start, but it doesn't strike me as ubiquitous as berserker starts. If temporary buff spells are trying to be removed/reformed, then just do that, IMO.
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Feb 8, 2016 03:19
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they should make an icy mist kind of spell, clouds of fog that reduce sight and slow anyone near them. does something like that already exist?
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Feb 8, 2016 03:45
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On demand LOS blocking is probably considered too strong for a spell you can reliably find.
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Feb 8, 2016 03:50
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So, just got myself stupidly killed by a v large slime playing DDFi^Pakellas. Gotta say, Pak is really fun, it's like playing a totally different game after being worn down by my weakling do nothing casters. I hope he doesn't get nerfed before the 0.18 tournament (whenever that comes around). As an aside, Pak gave me two rods of inaccuracy as gifts by XL15. Is he just being an arsehole or is the description misleading and those are actually good rods?
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Feb 8, 2016 05:28
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They do a ton of damage and can hit some big scary things that have barely any EV fairly reliably.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:30
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apple posted:IE is a strong start, but it doesn't strike me as ubiquitous as berserker starts. If temporary buff spells are trying to be removed/reformed, then just do that, IMO. The Orb of Zot does not represent developer positions. Please do not leave the Orb of Zot near small children, as it may represent a transdimensional demonic and/or choking hazard.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:31
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PleasingFungus posted:The Orb of Zot does not represent developer positions. Please do not leave the Orb of Zot near small children, as it may represent a transdimensional demonic and/or choking hazard. Huh, you lost me here. From the commit log: quote:Remove Condensation Shield I was going by a combination of commit messages and general sentiment in here + tavern. It could very well be just a vocal minority that feels that way, but IE certainly does feel "strong" to me, too (which I don't see anything wrong with, personally).
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Feb 8, 2016 05:40
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It sounds like PF is making a funny more than making a statement. 
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Feb 8, 2016 05:47
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Some background has to be the strongest, it's impossible for them all to be perfectly balanced. I don't think IE is necessarily second strongest after Be, I rate Wz as slightly better, though starting with ozo's armor makes IE quite tempting since the spell only gets more useful as the game goes on. Assassin is also a really strong start, in my opinion, and possibly better than IE, since you start with the ultimate early game weapon. At any rate, I don't think anyone could consider IE weak, since freeze, ozo's armor, throw icicle and summon ice beast are all really, really good. If I recall correctly, condensation shield was broken or useless for quite some time and no one even noticed the difference. I do like that the best book starts are the ones that are the most flexible and the ones that can be taken in more than one direction. I strongly hope that is preserved. If IE becomes a blaster background, I will be very sad.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:52
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Sage Grimm posted:It sounds like PF is making a funny more than making a statement. I figured, I just don't get the joke  (or if I'm being made fun of??)
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Feb 8, 2016 05:53
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Unimpressed posted:So, just got myself stupidly killed by a v large slime playing DDFi^Pakellas. Gotta say, Pak is really fun, it's like playing a totally different game after being worn down by my weakling do nothing casters. I hope he doesn't get nerfed before the 0.18 tournament (whenever that comes around). Rods of inaccuracy are situational, but the situations where they're useful is pretty big. They do colossal damage at high evocations. A capped rod of inaccuracy, at 27 Evocations, does 10d12 damage (a bit more, it comes out to be 12.6 - does this mean it rolls 4d12 + 6d13?). The downside is that it has to hit and it has a base accuracy of 1. If your target is big, very slow, paralyzed or petrified, it can absolutely splatter them. Jellies, titans, big dragons, juggernauts and such are your prime targets; it also works great on hydras if you got one early enough. It also penetrates - it doesn't lose max range based on targets it passes through, so shooting it down a hallway might let you hit something even if you can't reliably hit a specific thing and you can hit titans behind other enemies to stop those airstrikes. I'm always happy to get a rod of inaccuracy, though I'd usually like to get a lightning rod along with it for groups and high-evasion targets. Prism fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 06:24
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apple posted:I figured, I just don't get the joke He's just saying that I'm not a developer. That's the joke.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:42
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Possibly I should take a posting break.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:13
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You can't please everyone, no matter how much you spore!
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Feb 8, 2016 18:36
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PleasingFungus posted:Possibly I should take a posting break. Only if it means the massacre on Charms continues at a faster rate.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:38
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What are some good races/combos other than Deep Dwarves to take Pakellas for a spin? I haven't played Crawl since .14-ish, but this sounds rad as hell.
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Feb 8, 2016 21:44
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Spriggans and octopuses have good evocation aptitudes and more inventory slots (due to armor restrictions). Hill orcs can do basically anything. Humans are as good for Pakellas as they are for anything else. Comedy felid option.
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Feb 8, 2016 22:00
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Kobolds (+2) make great tool users. The lack of real hunger mitigation from using high end rods a lot is nullified by their intrinsic gourmand. If you keep to wands then Spriggans (+3) should do alright. All the rest are either 1, 0, -1 or in two cases -2 (Mummy, Ogre). Class beyond maybe Artificier to start with Evocations or choosing something synergistic with your aptitudes.
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Feb 8, 2016 22:06
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Doing a halfling right now and they're fine. 0 aptitude is plenty good enough.
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Feb 8, 2016 22:07
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So I know I've read here that any aptitude down to -1 is still OK, but would that be good enough for a main skill, like Evo for a Pakellas follower?
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Feb 8, 2016 22:25
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Unimpressed posted:So I know I've read here that any aptitude down to -1 is still OK, but would that be good enough for a main skill, like Evo for a Pakellas follower? It definitely is. Also, I would say that even as a Pakellas follower, you should consider evocations to still be a secondary skill--it's still much more important than when not worshiping Pakellas, but it's less important than getting your normal offensive skill online.
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Feb 8, 2016 22:39
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Superterranean posted:Spriggans and octopuses have good evocation aptitudes and more inventory slots (due to armor restrictions). Hill orcs can do basically anything. Humans are as good for Pakellas as they are for anything else. Ended up trying out an Octopode since I've never gotten anywhere with one before. We'll see how it goes! Starting as a stabopus to transition into evocables when that starts failing me.
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Feb 8, 2016 22:49
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So is powered by pain good for pakellas and mana shield really bad?
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Feb 8, 2016 23:35
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Ghouls of Pakellas are awesome as gently caress. Source: I 15-runed a Ghoul of Pakellas and, while I wouldn't want to try clearing zigs with him, he clowned all of the named demon lords with such comical ease that I almost felt kind of bad for them. Torment immunity + mutation immunity + Pakellas heal wounds engine (and a huge toolbox of rods and gadgets) makes for a smooooooth postgame.
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Feb 8, 2016 23:43
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resistentialism posted:So is powered by pain good for pakellas and mana shield really bad? Mana shield is horrible. You never have mp.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:07
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Stop getting hit, then! It's also not-so-secretly powerful as the conversion isn't a direct 1:1 in terms of damage mitigated.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:26
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z - the +2 ring mail of Too Many Cooks (worn) {+Blink Str+2 Stlth+}.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:40
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I tried a Gargoyle Fighter of Qazlal recently, and boy is it boring as hell. Tab. Space. Tab. Space. Tab. Space. Tab. Space. Tab. Space. I need some advice on clearing up some of that useless message spam, if someone would like to share some tips on making the game flow more smoothly. Open to any. I used to have a lot of optimization, but that got wiped several versions ago and I wasn't clever enough to save it anywhere before discarding it. In particular, I'm especially interested in how to get more lines for msg_max_height working in webtiles if possible, or terminal/ascii if not.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:45
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show_more=false is good, imo. Also nuke stuff with qaz's invocations for fun
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Feb 9, 2016 00:46
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What's hypothetically the most DPS a character can deal? Best I can come up with is a hasted Glaciate caster of Dithmenos (Does Glaciate, as a beam, count as a targeted spell?).
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Feb 9, 2016 00:58
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Sage Grimm posted:Stop getting hit, then! It's also not-so-secretly powerful as the conversion isn't a direct 1:1 in terms of damage mitigated. I'm saying in conjunction with pallekas. It's really hard to kill things fast enough to get your mp back and you can't auto regen it.
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Feb 9, 2016 01:04
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jon joe posted:What's hypothetically the most DPS a character can deal? Best I can come up with is a hasted Glaciate caster of Dithmenos (Does Glaciate, as a beam, count as a targeted spell?). Octopode in dragon form, if you want single target damage. e: Blade hands might beat that if you can get huge dex to go with your Str. Otherwise it's shatter + tornado, imo.
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Feb 9, 2016 01:39
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code:
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Feb 9, 2016 01:49
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stay depressed posted:z - the +2 ring mail of Too Many Cooks (worn) {+Blink Str+2 Stlth+}. I appreciate memes in my Crawl randarts
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Feb 9, 2016 01:53
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jon joe posted:What's hypothetically the most DPS a character can deal? Best I can come up with is a hasted Glaciate caster of Dithmenos (Does Glaciate, as a beam, count as a targeted spell?). It's a lateral logic question. Hypothetically, it's as fast as somebody can macro their favourite spell and/or slamming O and Tab. But Darox has it right, single target damage in a single action is octopode dragon if constriction is possible in Dragon Form. Blade Hands damage is still smaller even if you manage to get DEX up to the same level of STR. Lehudib's Crystal Spear might threaten it with 223 maximum damage. Area of Effect is Shatter hands down; Tornado unfortunately suffers from spin-up and the average case is only a radius of 3.
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Feb 9, 2016 01:55
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Constriction doesn't work for octodragon, but they keep all 8 rings which means you can pump your stats way up compared to any other race. Pretty sure Okawaru for Finesse is also the right choice there. I guess even a tornado, the most damaging level 9 spell, can't compete if you are hitting the absolute max number of shatter targets every turn. In practise tornado is a plus, in theory pure shatter would be better. e: for most damage in a single action, Chain Lightning with perfect rolls is probably way up there. e2: Goddamn, assuming the wiki formula is correct (5d(pow*2/15), 7+1d13 pow lost per jump) a perfect chain lightning bouncing between two enemies does over 2300 damage, 1250~ if it's you and a single target. Darox fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 02:00
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apple posted:I appreciate memes in my Crawl randarts The name was added over two years before the video came out! But possibly we should remove it. It's clearly become too popular... threatening the artisanally-crafted coolness for which crawl is well known.
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Feb 9, 2016 02:16
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How about a Cheistatted Boots of the Assassin + Dark Maul sleeping sneak attack?
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Feb 9, 2016 02:36
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