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Rinkles posted:Weren't the four maindeck chalices more of a PT thing; the deck being able to capitalize on the element of surprise fully because the deck itself was new? The Chalices were basically preemptive sideboarding for their expected matchups in a post-Twin world.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:24
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checkplease posted:Well if a ban happens, I hope it doesn't hit both eye and temple then. I think the deck should still be allowed to exist in some form. Kill one of the lands and make heartless eldrazi the go to option. If Eldrazi is the name of the game for the next few months I might actually make an effort to finish the UW Turbofog list that I've had kicking around a for a while.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:35
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C-Euro posted:If Eldrazi is the name of the game for the next few months I might actually make an effort to finish the UW Turbofog list that I've had kicking around a for a while. doesn't eldrazi have an end-game of tutor up newlamog and just exile your library? like it's only a singleton and maybe only in the side but it seems like it just wins through whatever you can do.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:40
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Voyager I posted:The Chalices were basically preemptive sideboarding for their expected matchups in a post-Twin world. That and I think part of the inspiration for this deck was "This is Mishra's Workshop, but with Eldrazi instead of Artifacts" and Workshops played 4 Chalices. (yes I know your Eye and Temple don't work with the Chalice) There are very few decks in Modern you aren't seriously hurting by putting a chalice on 1 or 2, and doing that barely effects the Eldrazi deck (not at all for 1, and only blanks 4 cards on 2). A chalice on 1 is pretty much absolutely fatal to Burn, Bogles, and Infect. If your on the play against affinity a chalice set on zero can be drat near a knock out punch depending on how they went with their hand. A chalice on 1 if your on the play will hurt Tron because it blanks ancient stirring, and their eggs they use to get colored mana to do various stuff they need to do to get set up. Chalice on 1 blanks quite a bit of Jund as well. Chalice plus Simian Spirit Guide might be a thing in quite a few more decks.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:41
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Sigma-X posted:doesn't eldrazi have an end-game of tutor up newlamog and just exile your library? like it's only a singleton and maybe only in the side but it seems like it just wins through whatever you can do. None of the PT lists seemed to play him, but yeah could easily slot him in as a singleton I am sure for the really long games.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:45
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Sigma-X posted:doesn't eldrazi have an end-game of tutor up newlamog and just exile your library? like it's only a singleton and maybe only in the side but it seems like it just wins through whatever you can do. Beaten but I didn't see any copies of it at the PT. Not sure whether or not that surprises me, those decks seem predicated on "cheap" creatures thanks to the manabase but an 8-mana creature doesn't see like too much of a stretch with a Sol land or two in play.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:49
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Just saw Reid's article about Jund and he had Kalitas in there for the Abzan Company matchup which makes alot of sense. I didn't think about that matchup.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:16
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mcmagic posted:Just saw Reid's article about Jund and he had Kalitas in there for the Abzan Company matchup which makes alot of sense. I didn't think about that matchup. For a moment I thought you were talking about standard, not a $1200+ deck that I really really REALLY want to play.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:29
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Count Bleck posted:For a moment I thought you were talking about standard, not a $1200+ deck that I really really REALLY want to play. We haven't had a goon tournament in a while, have we? Might be time to see if goons can solve the Eldrazi problem. edit: Would people be up for a Modern Thunderdome? I can probably set it up sometime this week. Ramos fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 07:33
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Trey VanCleave thinks 8 Rack is the answer. He's streaming it now: http://www.twitch.tv/treyvancleave
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Feb 8, 2016 07:41
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eye of ugin should be banned so that they don't have to worry heavily whenever emrakul makes her inevitable reappearance 3 sets from now, after we visit Kaladesh and catch up with the Phyrexians, then go back to Ravnica, again
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Feb 8, 2016 07:41
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Count Bleck posted:For a moment I thought you were talking about standard, not a $1200+ deck that I really really REALLY want to play. I honestly don't understand how modern Jund wins a match. Ever. Especially with our new Eldrazi overlords running around.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:43
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mcmagic posted:I honestly don't understand how modern Jund wins a match. Ever. Especially with our new Eldrazi overlords running around. It grinds them into the dirt with card advantage and value. Which is exactly the types of decks I love to play.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:00
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Brownhat posted:Trey VanCleave thinks 8 Rack is the answer. He's streaming it now: http://www.twitch.tv/treyvancleave I just tuned in and guy hardly looks a day older than when he was peeking at Zvi's cards 
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Feb 8, 2016 08:15
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Count Bleck posted:It grinds them into the dirt with card advantage and value. The entire deck is one for ones. At least legacy jund gets bloodbraid hymn and deathrite. Modern has virtually zero card advantage.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:29
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JerryLee posted:I just tuned in and guy hardly looks a day older than when he was peeking at Zvi's cards Still possibly my favorite MtG related photograph ever. 
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Feb 8, 2016 08:49
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Eldrazi is very similar to Jund except it never has to choose between being able to cast Tarmogoyg and Liliana or Terminate.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:51
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Modern jund has kolaghan's command and dark confidant
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Feb 8, 2016 08:56
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And lili.
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Feb 8, 2016 09:05
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mcmagic posted:I honestly don't understand how modern Jund wins a match. Ever. Especially with our new Eldrazi overlords running around. Serious answer. They lean heavily on the turn 1 Thoughtseize or Inquisition to disrupt the opponents game plan. There are lots of opening hands that pretty much completely you auto keep if certain 3 cards in there for alot of decks. Even Eldrazi. Taking even a single card away puts them off their game plan pretty bad. I mean even against Eldrazi, if your on the play a Inquisition will take away their Spirit Guide and stop them from doing turn 2 Smasher, or let you take the Chalice, or take away the Mimic so that their clock is slightly more reasonable. And a Thoughseize will take the Thought Knot seer, and I'm willing to bet an eldrazi player would be willing to take a opener with Eye, Temple, Smasher, Seer, and 3 rando not creature cards. Suddenly your Thoughtseize means they have to actually play Magic the Gathering with you.
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Feb 8, 2016 10:00
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The problem is when you have to choose between being able to cast your discard and get pressure on to the board. If you choose Thoughtseize over t2 Goyf and you see a hand of Eye-Mimic-Mimic-Seer-who cares, you're not actually setting them back and now you aren't pressuring them either. In the ideal scenario where they have a sketchy keep and you can curve out your disruption and pressure with perfect mana, sure. Due to the amount of points of failure available between the two decks, that's not the most likely scenario.
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Feb 8, 2016 10:16
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Brownhat posted:Trey VanCleave thinks 8 Rack is the answer. He's streaming it now: http://www.twitch.tv/treyvancleave NONONO I just made the decision to move out of standard and in to modern and could do with the 8-rack prices not getting hosed thanks
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Feb 8, 2016 10:21
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rabidsquid posted:The problem is when you have to choose between being able to cast your discard and get pressure on to the board. If you choose Thoughtseize over t2 Goyf and you see a hand of Eye-Mimic-Mimic-Seer-who cares, you're not actually setting them back and now you aren't pressuring them either. clearly we need Encroach reprinted so you can just take the Eye and now they actually can't vomit their hand out! AceClown posted:NONONO I just made the decision to move out of standard and in to modern and could do with the 8-rack prices not getting hosed thanks What pieces are there that are actually vulnerable to mtgfinance and haven't already been hosed with (Ensnaring Bridge, Lili and Mutavault)? In any case, if you know you want to move in on the deck and the prices haven't gotten hosed yet, go ahead and buy them, like, right this minute. This is of course assuming that 8-rack actually becomes our savior (it probably won't)
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Feb 8, 2016 10:27
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rabidsquid posted:The problem is when you have to choose between being able to cast your discard and get pressure on to the board. If you choose Thoughtseize over t2 Goyf and you see a hand of Eye-Mimic-Mimic-Seer-who cares, you're not actually setting them back and now you aren't pressuring them either. Shrug, I just know my game record against Jund is that if they can turn 1 thoughtseize or inquisition they are vastly more likely to win (big shocker i know). In fact playing Affinity and Burn against Jund, the only times they win is when they resolve those spells turn 1, so I figure it's same for Eldrazi. One thing I would say the Colorless Eldrazi deck doesnt have a ton of is redundancy. The fast win condition of Eldrazi is 4 Thought Knot seers punching you in the face and 4 Reality Smasher's punching you in the face. Getting one of those out of their hand buys you time. Jund wants to buy time and get to where they have about 6 mana and grind out the game with card advantage and the fact that they can use all their mana every turn. As far as your hypothetical hand goes, I would disagree. Mimics die to your removal suite, you run Finks and Oozes to get your life back in the game, and BoB will trade with a mimic and buy you time or start getting you card advantage to get your threats online. If Eldrazi wants to beat you they need to go explosive starts (which they do easily so I would say Eldrazi are favored), Jund is one of the few decks that could grind out the 2 for 1's to kill Smashers (use Kolaghans to get the card you discarded back in your hand). You have to mostly worry about the fact that they have action every turn with Eye of Ugin when they hit 7 lands. Jund has to address Eldrazi the same way they deal with burn, slow them down until their advantages grind out their speed. It's just that Eldrazi put out bigger threats than Burn does. On the other hand the Colorless Eldrazi Build runs less action cards than Burn does, if you can knock a Smasher or Thought Knot out of their hand (or kill a thought Knot with your extensive removal suite) your gonna get ahead.
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Feb 8, 2016 11:19
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JerryLee posted:
Ironically, my friend has been doing play testing with Blue Black Mill and he says it actually works shockingly well on Eldrazi. Ghost Quarter + Surgical Extraction/Extirprate on their Eye hurts their game plan quite a bit. Or he says you can be like "lol cool Eye" and just hit their Thought Knot Seer if you can get the Mind Break trap off.
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Feb 8, 2016 11:22
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I guess the trick to beating Eldrazi is just having everything break exactly right edit: This seriously reminds me of the "Surgical Extraction is so busted" arguments from way back yonder. rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 11:24
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rabidsquid posted:I guess the trick to beating Eldrazi is just having everything break exactly right Surgical is pretty busted in UBx mill 
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Feb 8, 2016 11:42
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C-Euro posted:Beaten but I didn't see any copies of it at the PT. Not sure whether or not that surprises me, those decks seem predicated on "cheap" creatures thanks to the manabase but an 8-mana creature doesn't see like too much of a stretch with a Sol land or two in play. I didn't see any of the pro tour this weekend, what are the new lands
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Feb 8, 2016 11:52
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Literally The Worst posted:I didn't see any of the pro tour this weekend, what are the new lands He's referencing SoL ring, not shadows over innistrad, because Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple both produce 2 mana (or something close) like a Sol ring.
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Feb 8, 2016 11:58
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One thing I didn't catch over the weekend was what all these players with 4 Eye of Ugin did when they drew multiples in their opening hand? I can imagine keeps but it seems like it could be a big problem.
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Feb 8, 2016 12:27
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BizarroAzrael posted:One thing I didn't catch over the weekend was what all these players with 4 Eye of Ugin did when they drew multiples in their opening hand? I can imagine keeps but it seems like it could be a big problem. They were pleased with the ghost quarter insurance. If their other 6 cards were good, it's basically like mulliganing and getting a free eye of ugin in exchange for not scrying
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Feb 8, 2016 12:29
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GeneX posted:They were pleased with the ghost quarter insurance. Or there was an edge case where the winning player tapped it for mana with LSV's Urborg and then sacced it via Legend rule to activate the fetch ability. I'm going to assume the lack of any information on SOI or anything else at the PT was Trick Jarrett getting revenge on the community for that guy selling a pack of SOI on eBay. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 13:25
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BizarroAzrael posted:One thing I didn't catch over the weekend was what all these players with 4 Eye of Ugin did when they drew multiples in their opening hand? I can imagine keeps but it seems like it could be a big problem. It worked very well because they could hold it, wait for the mirror Quartering their Eye, and then playing it the next turn. Sometimes they had to play it treating it like a Black Lotus because they knew it would be blown up next turn. Actually I think the BW version of Eldrazi could beat this deck, if you play maindeck Languish like I do. They just have a better aggro matchup game 1.
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Feb 8, 2016 13:55
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Angry Grimace posted:Or there was an edge case where the winning player tapped it for mana with LSV's Urborg and then sacced it via Legend rule to activate the fetch ability. Change the legend rule again!
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Feb 8, 2016 14:36
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Maybe Inverter of Truth was a super secret tech card for the upcoming Threshold deck in SOI since they have that Delirium threshold ripoff mechanic.
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Feb 8, 2016 14:40
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lazerwolf posted:Change the legend rule again! Maybe that's how you solve Eye of Ugin being broken. Change the legend rule to "you can only have one copy of a Legendary card in your deck".
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Feb 8, 2016 15:26
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Entropic posted:Maybe that's how you solve Eye of Ugin being broken. Change the legend rule to "you can only have one copy of a Legendary card in your deck". I did like the suggestion to errata eye of ugin to only be able to reduce the costs of legendary eldrazi... ShaneB fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 15:28
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ShaneB posted:I did like the suggestion to errata eye of ugin to only be able to the reduce costs of legendary eldrazi... "Colorless Mythic Rare Legendary Eldrazi spells with 'the' or 'of' in their names you cast cost 2 less to cast."
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Feb 8, 2016 15:31
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Entropic posted:Maybe that's how you solve Eye of Ugin being broken. Change the legend rule to "you can only have one copy of a Legendary card in your deck". This or go back to not being able to cast a second copy. Keep the fact that both players can have their own version of a legendary permanent. The only issue is if a player somehow gains control of two of the same legend how do you handle that.
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Feb 8, 2016 15:35
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anglachel posted:Serious answer. They lean heavily on the turn 1 Thoughtseize or Inquisition to disrupt the opponents game plan. There are lots of opening hands that pretty much completely you auto keep if certain 3 cards in there for alot of decks. Even Eldrazi. Taking even a single card away puts them off their game plan pretty bad. I mean even against Eldrazi, if your on the play a Inquisition will take away their Spirit Guide and stop them from doing turn 2 Smasher, or let you take the Chalice, or take away the Mimic so that their clock is slightly more reasonable. And a Thoughseize will take the Thought Knot seer, and I'm willing to bet an eldrazi player would be willing to take a opener with Eye, Temple, Smasher, Seer, and 3 rando not creature cards. Suddenly your Thoughtseize means they have to actually play Magic the Gathering with you. Thoughtsieze is still a one for one answer though. There are so many decks in modern that can go over the top of that.
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Feb 8, 2016 15:38
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