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Bip Roberts posted:I feel like they might need to learn more about Bernie. Most voters never learn anything substantive about any candidate.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:04
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Bip Roberts posted:I feel like they might need to learn more about Bernie. They hate Hillary with the burning of a thousand suns. Bernie != Hillary. The thing I've generally heard from conservatives is that they "don't agree with Bernie but at least they know what he stands for." They generally actually respect the guy. Granted I figure it might be because he's a cranky old man being part of it but really; the right seems to respect the fact that he doesn't seem like a sneaky politician and sticks up for what he believes in through thick and thin.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:18
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Seriously though when they say they respect him, that doesn't mean they actually like or support him at all. "Oh yes he admits he's a commie hitler" is what most of those people are saying.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:23
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Yeah some of the right like Sanders because since they assume everyone is trying to institute full on socialism while lying so they grudgingly like the guy who isn't even trying to lie to them. On a personal level, not a political one. Also the fact that they have an impossible hatred of Hillary Clinton.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:24
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Shugojin posted:Yeah some of the right like Sanders because since they assume everyone is trying to institute full on socialism while lying so they grudgingly like the guy who isn't even trying to lie to them. On a personal level, not a political one. I think most Hillary supporters have no conception of just how much the right wing hates Hillary Clinton. They actually think she'll be able to "get things done" and achieve positive compromises. Mitch McConnell would set himself on fire before passing a bill that President Hillary supported, and that includes a bill to fund the fire department.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think most Hillary supporters have no conception of just how much the right wing hates Hillary Clinton. They actually think she'll be able to "get things done" and achieve positive compromises. Hopefully he'd ignite Ted Cruz first, even though it means Senator McConnell (R-Galapagos) would die happy.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:10
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A lot of conservatives like Sanders because being anti-establishment is a popular concept on both sides. I'm talking normal people who vote Republican for whatever cultural reason (usually guns or abortion), not people who mainline right wing media all day and think everyone left of purestrain fascism is a commie socialist. They exist you just don't really get exposed to them unless you know them in real life.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:23
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It's true that being conservative has become seen as being anti-establishment by many people. Hell, the Bundy crew thought that. I guess trying to go back to an older establishment is anti-establishment in some way. drat Liberial tyranny, letting gays and blacks have freedom! Oppressing the Christian White Straight Man's right to rule over everyone with an iron fist!
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Feb 8, 2016 06:27
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Right-wingers hate Hillary more than Bernie. They don't like Bernie, they just hate him far less than Hillary. It's that simple.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:33
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Star Man posted:Right-wingers hate Hillary more than Bernie. They don't like Bernie, they just hate him far less than Hillary. It's that simple. They have convinced themselves that Hillary will never become president since she will be arrested for treason before she can ever take office. Seriously. I have read multiple articles on conservative sites saying this.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:52
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they like bernie because he's an old white man
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Feb 8, 2016 06:54
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They hate Hillary with the burning of a thousand suns. Bernie != Hillary. "But I'm still going to vote for Trump, Cruz, the bag of rocks, Walker's ham sandwich becase it's not a 'D'"
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Feb 8, 2016 07:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They hate Hillary with the burning of a thousand suns. Bernie != Hillary. My conservative Evangelical grandparents might actually vote for him if he wins the nomination, because they find Trump, Rubio, and Cruz so repugnant. That is...unprecedented, to say the least.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:51
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Majorian posted:My conservative Evangelical grandparents might actually vote for him if he wins the nomination, because they find Trump, Rubio, and Cruz so repugnant. That is...unprecedented, to say the least. To be honest I think you'll find a lot of disgust running through the Republican party right now. Not every person who votes R a lot is a Bible-thumping hate monger. A great many of them wouldn't elect Hillary over a super ultra mega Hitler but I can see a rather significant number of Republicans looking at the guys that are likely to get the GOP nom and going "lolnope."
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Feb 8, 2016 09:25
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ToxicSlurpee posted:To be honest I think you'll find a lot of disgust running through the Republican party right now. Not every person who votes R a lot is a Bible-thumping hate monger. A great many of them wouldn't elect Hillary over a super ultra mega Hitler but I can see a rather significant number of Republicans looking at the guys that are likely to get the GOP nom and going "lolnope." It's very much like how if you believe all the people who say they're refusing to vote for Hillary if she gets the nom, it's not like they're going to vote for Republicans. They'll go third party or stay home.
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Feb 8, 2016 09:36
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Tender Bender posted:I think a lot of Sanders appeal goes away if he's veeping for Hillary. From a ways back, but - I don't know, I think there's a way to make that work. Essentially, if Clinton were to say "Look, I was Secretary of State and most of the President's job is foreign policy; I'm going to concentrate on that, but my Vice-President and good friend Bernie Sanders will be taking point on domestic economic policy" then there's a way to get the best of both worlds. It will never, ever happen - I don't think Hillary would ever forgive Sanders for making her struggle for a nomination that she should have had in the bag two years ago - but done properly, it would be a good way for her to shore up support from the left while still being able to tell the center 'no, it's okay, I'll make sure he doesn't get out of hand.'
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Feb 8, 2016 10:43
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:From a ways back, but - I don't know, I think there's a way to make that work. Essentially, if Clinton were to say "Look, I was Secretary of State and most of the President's job is foreign policy; I'm going to concentrate on that, but my Vice-President and good friend Bernie Sanders will be taking point on domestic economic policy" then there's a way to get the best of both worlds. Hillary is going to do whatever gets her the nom. If that means VP Bernie then she'll do it.
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Feb 8, 2016 10:49
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quote:It will never, ever happen - I don't think Hillary would ever forgive Sanders for making her struggle for a nomination that she should have had in the bag two years ago Hilldog, for any of her faults has the positive that she engages in realpolitik. You think she was happy Barack stole the nomination from her? But no she went to work in the white house. Again I usually pop into this thread to say- even though Bernie Sanders is unlikely to win the nomination, the fact a self-admitted socialist candidate is not only considered but is a serious candidate for the white house goes to show the direction things are going. Even Trump getting as much attention as he does shows that there is an undercurrent in american politics that is fed up with empty suit corrupt politicians we keep electing into office. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 12:48
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Bernie calling himself a socialist and doing well anyway has sucked a lot of the oxygen out of that argument. Had it just been Clinton vs. O'Malley we'd be hearing socialist used as a slur every day.
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Feb 8, 2016 13:52
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Also, it seems very likely that Clinton will want someone like Castro for the VP pick - a relatively young minority rather than another older white person. Wouldn't hurt for both Clinton and Bernie to start grooming future Democratic candidates in general.
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Feb 8, 2016 15:07
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Jurgan posted:There really aren't any significant numbers of swing voters left. The parties are so different at this point that everyone leans one way or the other. They're rare but they still exist. A guy at my office in the last election during a smoke break asked me "I still haven't made up my mind, who should I vote for and why?" on election day. I said "Obama of course" and explained why he'd be better than Romney and his response was "I get all that, and I agree, but I'm just not convinced he was born in this country." I argued, "Well, he was. And even if he wasn't, what does it REALLY matter?" The next day he claims to have voted for Obama. Dude's obviously a Trump supporter this go-round, but if he was around in 2012 there still have to be people willing to listen to both sides and make a decision rather than it being allegiance to a particular team.
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Feb 8, 2016 15:22
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Honestly, I think that the right wing has killed off any power their cries of "socialism" really have among swing voters. They've called every single Democratic candidate a socialist for decades now. Yes, Bernie is an actual socialist, but that makes 0 difference in what will happen this election, because if Franco ran as a Democrat, they'd call him a socialist too. "Socialist" is just what right-wingers call Democrats to most people. It's background noise, essentially. It's just part of the drone and chant that makes up the media saturation of an election to the average American, and the same aging John Birchers that always mess their depends over that title will keep punching straight R until the day they finally get shoved into a particle board coffin by their guiltily-relived children no matter who is on the ticket. Hermetic fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 15:36
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Cythereal posted:Also, it seems very likely that Clinton will want someone like Castro for the VP pick - a relatively young minority rather than another older white person. Yeah, it is kind of weird how the last two presidents have picked VP's who were considerably older than them. It suggests the office is becoming less about being the president's understudy and more about being a senior adviser.
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Feb 8, 2016 16:11
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Cythereal posted:Also, it seems very likely that Clinton will want someone like Castro for the VP pick - a relatively young minority rather than another older white person. Castro seems like a no-brainer VP for either of them. Young, not white, and popular in a red state.
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Feb 8, 2016 16:46
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icantfindaname posted:they like bernie because he's an old white man Good.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:01
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On one hand you have SOCIALISM!, on the other hand you have BENGHAZI!
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Feb 8, 2016 17:14
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to what extent has the right-wing media machine really touched sanders yet? i mean, for what hillary's numbers are, they are what they are after a quarter century of trying to pin bullshit scandals on her
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Feb 8, 2016 17:18
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Hermetic posted:Honestly, I think that the right wing has killed off any power their cries of "socialism" really have among swing voters. They've called every single Democratic candidate a socialist for decades now. Yes, Bernie is an actual socialist, but that makes 0 difference in what will happen this election, because if Franco ran as a Democrat, they'd call him a socialist too. I hope this is true. I'm kinda concerned we're falling into the same echo chamber effect that the right does with their darlings, where our guy seems totally solid and the country will support him and they actually won't care about his very real baggage, but then election day rolls around and he gets solidly rejected in the general because it turns out the country as a whole does not want him. Like, people actually thought Romney would win in 2012.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:19
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:to what extent has the right-wing media machine really touched sanders yet? i mean, for what hillary's numbers are, they are what they are after a quarter century of trying to pin bullshit scandals on her As near as I can tell, a few "hurr he'll steal all your money to give people free stuff" Facebook memes, nothing you wouldn't normally see pointed at Democrats in general and no more frequent or severe than Hillary gets when not running for anything.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:21
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Romney people were actively ignoring or rejecting polling though. Both Hillary and Sanders seem to be beating the GOP guy regardless of who it is at this point. I don't think the Democrat in the Whitehouse is a sure thing but there is some statistical backing to the idea while Republicans were sticking their fingers in their ears all the way up to Romney conceding with his written at the last minute speech.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:24
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Tender Bender posted:I hope this is true. I'm kinda concerned we're falling into the same echo chamber effect that the right does with their darlings, where our guy seems totally solid and the country will support him and they actually won't care about his very real baggage, but then election day rolls around and he gets solidly rejected in the general because it turns out the country as a whole does not want him. Like, people actually thought Romney would win in 2012. Romney could have won in 2012. I'm not sure how, but the election was relatively close. The guy looked like a President, he just couldn't convey a shred of humanity.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:45
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icantfindaname posted:they like bernie because he's an old white man Yes there's one thing authoritarians and neo-Nazis love more than powerful women, and that's Jews Jerry Manderbilt posted:to what extent has the right-wing media machine really touched sanders yet? i mean, for what hillary's numbers are, they are what they are after a quarter century of trying to pin bullshit scandals on her I'm curious why people think right wing media is going to convince a Sanders believer not to vote for him because he's a socialist
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Feb 8, 2016 17:46
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How could you tell the song was garbage? The audio mix of the concert was so loving terrible all I could hear was the crowd.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:47
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:to what extent has the right-wing media machine really touched sanders yet? i mean, for what hillary's numbers are, they are what they are after a quarter century of trying to pin bullshit scandals on her They have been considering him a non entity and dismissing him as an old nutjob because they think they've poisoned the word socialist beyond their own nutjob bubble so obviously no one would ever seriously consider him. Except their overuse of the socialist label to attack all liberal politicians has made it so that he isn't really viewed any worse for that and his populism speaks to disillusioned people on both sides.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:49
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Radbot posted:I'm curious why people think right wing media is going to convince a Sanders believer not to vote for him because he's a socialist I think there is a legitimate fear that conservative Democrats might stay home if Bernie is nominated. A Republican president isn't so dire to them as they don't get hosed by their social issues personally as badly as less affluent classes and typically don't get how loving terrible Republicans are at running an economy since traditional media outlets really ignore that. I've talked to economically conservative ones that fear his Democratic Socialism talk. I'm not sure if that's more or less than the types of people that would have not bothered to vote for a more traditional DNC type though. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 17:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think most Hillary supporters have no conception of just how much the right wing hates Hillary Clinton. They actually think she'll be able to "get things done" and achieve positive compromises. This is true even here. I've asked several Hillary supporters in multiple threads to specify what portion of her agenda Congress will cooperate with and never been given an answer (because it's obvious on its face that there is no answer).
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Feb 8, 2016 17:54
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Quite frankly the less a president does in conjunction with Republicans the better so if Hillary and Bernie can be a stoppage on their legislative cancer I'm satisfied.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:56
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They hate Hillary with the burning of a thousand suns. Bernie != Hillary. Do keep in mind that I've heard the exact same sentiment about Jimmy Carter. Pyroxene Stigma posted:Romney could have won in 2012. I'm not sure how, but the election was relatively close. The guy looked like a President, he just couldn't convey a shred of humanity. The election was not close unless you just never paid attention to Presidential Elections before. It wasn't a blowout but it's about as comfortable of a victory as anyone could hope for.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:58
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Radish posted:I think there is a legitimate fear that conservative Democrats might stay home if Bernie is nominated. A Republican president isn't so dire to them as they don't get hosed by their social issues personally as badly as less affluent classes and typically don't get how loving terrible Republicans are at running an economy since traditional media outlets really ignore that. I've talked to economically conservative ones that fear his Democratic Socialism talk. I'm not sure if that's more or less than the types of people that would have not bothered to vote for a more traditional DNC type though. I'm turning 40 in June and I can see a couple of issues with Bernie that younger voters might not fully appreciate. First, for better or worse, I still have a visceral reaction to the term "socialist" based on the period I grew up in. I agree with pretty much all of his policies, but growing up in the 80s, just hearing the moniker of socialist makes me think he's unelectable. It's not necessarily a rational reaction, but rather a product of my formative years. Watching the Berlin Wall come down and seeing the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the Cold War politics of the Reagan years are probably to blame for this. Second, most of the left leaning people of my age have a soft spot in their hearts for the Clinton years. After 12 years of Reagan/Bush and the first Gulf War, just having someone in the White House that shared our beliefs created a sea change in the way we viewed politics. It also didn't hurt that he was the first president I voted for and he created a budget surplus and gave us 8 years of relative peace. So the idea of having the Clintons back in the White House is really appealing to me. Anyway, just my two cents. It may not be a practical way of viewing the election, but it might explain some of the blowback against Bernie and his ability to be elected.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:17
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So Hillary supporters have been programmed to be afraid of the word "socialism" and think that Bill Clinton personally ushered in the good times of the 90s? Sounds about right.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:19
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