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Holy poo poo this is gonna be good.the spyder posted:Haha, I actually have it out there to pre-heat a casting I need to weld. Too many projects! Lol. Throw some dogs/burgers on there while you're doing it unless it makes them taste like cast alloy 
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Feb 1, 2016 16:56
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After work today I continued adjusting the engine placement. In these first few pictures I was checking the back spacing, trans tunnel clearance, and overall fit. Even after removing the steering rack, it still sat high enough to hit the hood's understructure.      After an hour of playing, I decided the rack has to be moved. Hopefully I can modify the stock subframe, otherwise it's going to be a custom job. With the mounts tweaked, it just clears a stock strut bar. I also removed unnecessary brackets and the ABS system.     Here's how I'm checking the driveshaft angle. I will be having a new driveshaft and modifying the power plant frame.    Once I was happy with that I tore it all down and with the help of a friend, pushed the Red 94 r2 into the shop. I hadn't racked it yet and I was dying to see underneath. Plus I could pull measurements for the 20B project.  I actually found things to be in better condition then I expected. Lots of rust on the exhaust, but just surface rust on the body. Oh and a reman starter that looks to be recently installed.      Here's a better picture of the bent control arms. I'm guessing the insurance auctions forklift did this based on the other undercarriage scrapes/dents.   The exhaust was... rotten. It put up quite the fight, as the gaskets/flanges had rusted together. Nothing a few hits from a BFH couldn't solve.   Here's an odd bit. There's smoke suite just along this one joint. The seam sealer is peeled back from heat, but there's no other visible damage? Another mystery.  With the exhaust gone, we drained the fluids. Only the diff had the tiniest amount of water in it. Everything else looked good and semi-recent.     Next up was the radiator. The fans were clogged with a rats nest and I think I found my coolant leak.   After we got the engine bay initially stripped, I started on the downpipe/precat. This sure put up a fight. Eventually with the help of a few squirts of Deep Creep, a BFH, and the sawzall it came out.  Almost ready to be pulled. Just some fuel lines, oil coolers, and wiring to go.  More rodent signs.  And it's midnight and time for bed. the spyder fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 08:58
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Too many rat's nests. Also, for the 20B and its intake manifold not clearing... just go DSM and make a hood with a bulge 
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Feb 2, 2016 22:33
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I think I'm coming down with the cold that's going around. Ugh. I stayed home today and worked in the shop for a few hours. Before engine removal I took measurements. It's amazing how much of this driveline sits at 2-5 degrees. Driveshaft  Diff  Rear of trans  Main trans body.  Intake  Waterpump housing  Pro tip- if your rebuilding the engine, jack up the motor and pull the mounts. It makes it 10x easier.  Here's the only sign of corrosion in the interior (so far)- the ECU is covered in corrosion.  And it's out!   Yep. This definitely sat in water.  Before pushing it outside I had to unstick this caliper. Thankfully it didn't put up a fight. 
the spyder fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 03:46
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the spyder posted:I think I'm coming down with the cold that's going around. Ugh. I stayed home today and worked in the shop for a few hours. loving hell, dude. I stayed home with a cold on Friday and the most I accomplished was sleeping for an extra four hours and playing some Fallout 4.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:30
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No kidding. All I've accomplished all day has binge watching The Simpsons. I actually managed about 9 or 10 hours of sleep though.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:33
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I was feeling proud I managed to change the wiper stalk in the Civic and go to work on my third day of being sick. gently caress this cold.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:43
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I'm in a mood where despite feeling like crap, I just really want to get this started. I've got just enough projects in right now to pay for a turbo/clutch. No idea how I'm going to pay for the black FC engine rebuild or Red FD's engine, but let's hope more projects start coming in. I foresee my brothers Forester getting some rack time here soon.  I spent the few hours I had energy today dropping off the Red FD's engine at Rob's. The good news is the housings look ok and all the seals are there. The bad news is, well, you can see the rusty liquid in the pictures. Ugh.      The clutch looks great despite the rust. I'm tempted to use some evaporust on it and see how it turns out.  Ready to head to the rebuilders.  Next up: More 20B goodness! I started to feel better this evening and spent a few hours mocking up the engine/trans.  The key measurements here are 5 degrees on the block, 2 degrees on the trans tail shaft, and 5 degrees on the diff casing.  I decided to "massage" the transmission tunnel. There's only a few bolt heads that are causing issues. The lovely part is most of them hit the firewall seam which is rather strong.   This small indent is to clear the starter solenoid wiring.  The general area pre-massaging.    Tomorrow I'll finish clearancing the last two bolt heads.  The next bit is going to be the hardest part. I really, really wanted to fit this motor in without modding the stock subframe. After putting the motor in the car, I've decided I would rather have the motor as far back and as low as possible. From the factory, the engine sits behind the rack, which helps maintain the 50/50 weight distribution. I'm hoping I can keep something close to that despite the extra weight. This does mean moving the steering rack and hacking the subframe. Thankfully I have a spare to cut up.  I've got a ton of issues to resolve, but I can't stop smiling.     Parts I will need to make/have made/purchase: 1) Oil pan $600~ or so 2) Motor mounts $200 3) Starter upper-mount/bracket $40 material + time 4) Shifter pedestal $300 5) Modded power plant frame $40 material + time 6) Custom drive shaft $300? 7) Fuel rails, injectors, regulator, lines, pump. $2500 8) Intercooler and couplers $800 9) Radiator $400 10) ECU $1700 11) Turbo manifold and downpipe $600 materials + time 12) Wastegate $500 13) Turbo $2500 14) Clutch $1500 So $12k? I still need paint, wheels/tires, brakes, seats and gauges. I've already spent $5k on the engine and rebuild parts. If you add the shell ($5k?), I'll be well over $30k into this all said and done. I want to try and get this running this year, we'll see if I can afford to. the spyder fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 10:41
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This only the best thing. 20B FD RX-7s are pretty much every rotorhead's dream.
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Feb 4, 2016 17:23
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My lust for FDs was dulled when I found out I don't fit in them. At least not the real ones... maybe I'll build a tube chassis one someday.
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Feb 4, 2016 17:55
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I still feel like crap. No energy yesterday, stayed up till 4:30. I had a few hours worth of energy in me today and got the following done. I decided I was approaching several problems the wrong way. I kept trying to make the stock everything work. Stock motor mounts, stock steering rack position, ect. I had convinced myself a 1" 7075 oil pan with integrated mounts was the only way to go. After spending three day fitting everything and still being unhappy, I tossed everything out the window. First step: FD (13B-REW) front cover and a 3/4" oil pan. This gave me an extra 1/4" of drop to work with.   Step 2: Cut/grind.   Step 3: Smile. Everything fits now and it's loooooow. Much lower then other cars I've seen. The motor is a solid 3.5" back from the factory 13B-REW.    I'm planning on using the factory oil pump and building a 6061 aluminum pan to provide somewhere right around 5.5-6qts of capacity. It's going to be tight, but who cares. The motor mounts will attach on both the pan and block. The steering, well, that's the last thing I want to think about right now, haha. It's going to be a pain, but I've got an idea. I wanted to see what accessories would look like.   Wow do they stick out. I'm going to end up making a new thermostat housing/water neck. The power steering setup is just there for mockup- if I'm going to run it, I can only run a 12x18" intercooler vs a 14x18. Oh well, it's almost 3am and time for bed. Long day tomorrow. the spyder fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Feb 6, 2016 |
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Feb 6, 2016 11:43
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After googling, I see some 13B oil pans as being that flat all the way across. Is that how you're gonna shape yours? Or will it have a bowl after the crossmember?
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Feb 6, 2016 17:47
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the spyder posted:I'm planning on using the factory oil pump and building a 6061 aluminum pan to provide somewhere right around 5.5-6qts of capacity. It's going to be tight, but who cares. The motor mounts will attach on both the pan and block. The steering, well, that's the last thing I want to think about right now, haha. It's going to be a pain, but I've got an idea. But 6061 isn't very weldable at all, why not a 5xxx alloy?
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Feb 6, 2016 18:18
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mekilljoydammit posted:My lust for FDs was dulled when I found out I don't fit in them. At least not the real ones... maybe I'll build a tube chassis one someday. I haven't tried to fit in one yet. I still live in hope...
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Feb 7, 2016 00:22
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All right, I slept in till noon by accident and headed straight to Rob's. I've dumped quite a few personal projects off at his shop recently and I wanted to give him a hand with his projects. He's got a backlog of motors right now so we tore a few down. First up: RX-8 4port motor. This was pretty much a boat anchor, despite being a reman. It was left outside, exhaust ports UP. Water got in and rusted the rotors solid.  Next up: 13B-REW. Customer decided his motor was hungry and fed it a few apex seals, haha. The rear rotor was TRASHED. My buddy Derek stopped by at this point to lend a hand.     And then there was my boat anchor from the 94 R2. Man, every time I look at this car I have to spend more money.   Mmmmm corrosion.   You know it's going to be a fun teardown when Rob's never seen someone round the front hub bolt... We heated it to break the locktite, but didn't wait long enough for it to cool down. 950ft pounds of 3/4" impact gun later... Opps.  Oh great. Another Pennzoil motor. The amber coating is a dead giveaway. (Either that or it got way to hot- but there were no other signs of being overheated.)  Uhh it was missing one oil pump bolt...   God.drat.It. Welp, at least one housing is shot. The chrome has flaked offer over a 3" area along the bottom.  Aaaaaand all the seals are rusted into the rotors.  Rob seemed to think it had ~20k on it based on wear/overall condition- which is odd as there's no record of a engine replacement. Someone had done the fuel line recall, but otherwise it looked untouched. The bad news is there's probably $2k worth of parts that need replaced. I'm sure I can do it cheaper, but still. I paid $3k for the drat thing. I'm beginning to think I should fix it and sell it to fund the 20B. Oh well. I have rotors, but I need to source housings. I'm hoping this chance is either 1) Funding my FD or 2) Finding a new job.  Tomorrow is more 20B stuffs, hopefully. I still feel like crap. the spyder fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:43
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Feb 7, 2016 08:10
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That's salvageable?!
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Feb 7, 2016 09:44
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Well, it needs rotors, new seals, and a housing. Otherwise, yes. I'm sure I could purchase a JDM import for $1500, but I'd still end up going through it and most importers for Rotaries are scammers. Either way, it's going to cost me $2k to get it running again.
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Feb 7, 2016 10:12
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That's pretty impressive given how abused it is. Definitely the right option, though. $2k for a freshly rebuilt motor vs $2k for a halfway-unknown motor? easy choice.
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Feb 7, 2016 11:21
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the spyder posted:Well, it needs rotors, new seals, and a housing. Otherwise, yes. So, what? The crank, irons and one housing was good?
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Feb 7, 2016 11:44
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Out of curiosity, what do you mean by a pennzoil motor? Do rotaries not like pennzoil or something?
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Feb 7, 2016 21:11
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I'm gonna echo that. I tried googling it, but my google-fu is weak 
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Feb 7, 2016 21:16
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Possibly synthetic? Still don't know the verdict on that, but a lot of people only use conventional oil in rotaries since they're designed to burn a little of it. Plus it's waaaaay cheaper.
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Feb 7, 2016 21:21
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The original formula Pennzoil was a thick, honey like oil. I've posted pictures before of other "Pennzoil" motors. Most the time the engines had been serviced at a dealer or shop that only used Pennzoil most it's life. Based on what I've seen, I would never run it. It coats every surface it comes in contact with and requires chemical or abrasive removal.
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Feb 7, 2016 22:08
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Cakefool posted:So, what? The crank, irons and one housing was good? Irons, stationary gears, and rear housing. We probably won't reuse the crank/oil pump/front cover/ect- just out of laziness. They are coated in that nasty stuff and I've got spares in good shape. If I were desperate, I would buy a case of Carb Cleaner and a bunch of small bore brushes, but that takes too much time. And yes, it does suck. Less then 1/2 the parts in this motor will be reused.
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Feb 7, 2016 22:11
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Can't.stop.sneezing! Finally fell asleep at 8:30am... slept till 1:30 and started cleaning the shop. It was 61? today, which was amazing. Decided to try and work myself to death in hopes I can fall asleep tonight at a reasonable hour. No cleaning pictures. Pulled about a truck loads worth of parts out to be sold/given away/tossed. Here's the only picture I remembered to take: 
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Feb 8, 2016 08:39
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Sneezing? better get some allergy meds going
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Feb 8, 2016 08:48
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You got a good housing out of a random engine? Wow, working on 12As has made me a pessimist. I should just start machining 13B housings down to 12A size like Atkins does... (or stop running 12As; I'm almost out of rotors anyway)
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Feb 8, 2016 14:21
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the spyder posted:Can't.stop.sneezing! Finally fell asleep at 8:30am... slept till 1:30 and started cleaning the shop. It was 61? today, which was amazing. Decided to try and work myself to death in hopes I can fall asleep tonight at a reasonable hour. No cleaning pictures. Pulled about a truck loads worth of parts out to be sold/given away/tossed. A VMIC turboed 20b? What are your plans to fit the 355 width tires in the back?
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Feb 8, 2016 20:49
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I haven't got that far yet, but I know tractions going to be a problem. Well, that and once you go over 500hp, you start eating trans/diffs. I bought some temporary wheels (I have to lengthen the tie rod mount on the knuckles and 16" wheels will no longer fit), but they are only 9.5" wide in the rear. I think my new plan is to get the car running for the summer and then tear it down this fall/winter for paint/wheels/widebody. No updates. Worked myself too hard Sunday and in a cruel twist of fate, I caught my Son's head cold. Lived on the couch/phone today trying to at least get some projects done at work.
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Feb 9, 2016 06:03
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Seeing as this appears to be the home of rotary experts, I'm looking at buying an FB this year because I just love the things. What if anything, should I watch for with them? Any obvious signs that make a car a definite no no? Also this thread man, holy poo poo.
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Feb 9, 2016 10:44
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88h88 posted:Seeing as this appears to be the home of rotary experts, I'm looking at buying an FB this year because I just love the things. If you presume it needs a new engine or engine rebuild, you should do OK with just regular used car stuff (rust etc) beyond that, i will leave to the spyder
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Feb 9, 2016 11:53
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88h88 posted:Seeing as this appears to be the home of rotary experts, I'm looking at buying an FB this year because I just love the things. The most common unobvious rust place is the inner wheel wells; you can check by taking out the storage bins in rear. Unless you like rust repair, walk away from one rusted there. They use recirculating ball steering, and it just plain will have more play than a rack and pinion setup. Some of this can be adjusted out, some can't. If you start modifying stuff, the rear suspension has issues - at the very least, never put harder bushings in both the upper and lower links or you'll have a bad time. Really good solutions for the rear suspension exist but I don't know if they're still sold and they're oriented towards road racing. For that matter, there's a big gap in modification after "strut inserts, shocks, springs, bars"; thanks to the front strut design, there's not a lot of options for good coilovers without machining. Cars with rear disc brakes are the ones you want - in addition to disc brakes they also usually will have limited slips. The older naturally aspirated rotaries have a lot longer lifespan than FDs are reputed to, but most FBs are 12As, and 12A parts are mostly no longer available - so there's a little bit of a crapshoot. On the other hand, if you're comfortable with a bit of wrenching, an FC 13B bolts in with very little effort and a couple parts that Racing Beat sells, and even an NA 13B is pretty fun in these cars - there's options to put a carb on them or you can use some sort of standalone EFI, depending on comfort level. That's it for off the top of my head. They're fun little cars (I have a lot of them) but as you'd expect, they do have a bunch of stuff relating to the fact that they're all at least 30 years old.
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Feb 9, 2016 12:30
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Unless you have a better source hidden away even untested, unknown history, missing parts 13b engines go for at least a grand here. If you have a better source get in touch please
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Feb 9, 2016 12:59
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And that's the issue. Due to them being such a bloody rarity over here it's the engine that's stopping me going and grabbing one right now. I'd dearly love an FB, they're beautiful little cars but the spinny triangles and lack thereof of parts and such is putting me off a bit. I mean the rotary is a reason I kinda want one too but I don't really want to be paying out what the car's worth if it decides to poo poo the bed. All signs point to terrible decision but they're so pretty.
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Feb 9, 2016 13:04
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mekilljoydammit posted:recirculating ball steering Erm...what the gently caress?! I just watched a video of this and still have no idea why there are loving ball bearings in there or what they do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYGNpQvvX6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBFz6wfli7w WHY ARE THERE BALLS IN THE STEERING BOX?! Edit: ok, this shows it a little better, so the ball bearings are just being used as bearings to overcome the one-way nature of worm gears? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIM1AyxfYkw I like the way this guy pronounces 'ball screws' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3i-Ecb698g Pomp and Circumcized fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 13:05
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88h88 posted:And that's the issue. Due to them being such a bloody rarity over here it's the engine that's stopping me going and grabbing one right now. I'd dearly love an FB, they're beautiful little cars but the spinny triangles and lack thereof of parts and such is putting me off a bit. I mean the rotary is a reason I kinda want one too but I don't really want to be paying out what the car's worth if it decides to poo poo the bed. All depends on what you're going for, really. I mean, an NA 13B can last as long as any other Japanese engine if you take care of its quirks (don't overheat, premix or make sure the oil injection is working). If you put value on having a quirky classic Japanese sports car that can last a good long while, figuring out an engine once and just driving isn't that much of a cost, especially given as how FBs (at least where I'm at) are available cheaply. If you're looking at it in terms of what value some future owner would put on the car, well, I won't try to argue, except to say that fixing up most older cars doesn't make sense either. *quick edit* I should note that I had a couple daily driven FBs, one of which I bought from a junkyard and just drove. Additionally, one of the cars I got had something like 270k miles on the odometer. So it's not like 12As are automatically going to be dead, just it's more cost effective to go with a newer 13B than trying to rebuild a 12A. ShittyPostmakerPro posted:Erm...what the gently caress?! Yeah, basically that. Otherwise there would be no steering feedback whatsoever, which would suck. Well, suck even worse than recirculating ball steering. Rack and pinion conversions for FBs are kind of a holy grail for a lot of owners, but there's not many good ones out there. mekilljoydammit fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 14:22
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mekilljoydammit posted:All depends on what you're going for, really. I mean, an NA 13B can last as long as any other Japanese engine if you take care of its quirks (don't overheat, premix or make sure the oil injection is working). If you put value on having a quirky classic Japanese sports car that can last a good long while, figuring out an engine once and just driving isn't that much of a cost, especially given as how FBs (at least where I'm at) are available cheaply. If you're looking at it in terms of what value some future owner would put on the car, well, I won't try to argue, except to say that fixing up most older cars doesn't make sense either. I don't want to discourage anyone, but over here it's something to bear in mind: spares aren't common or cheap, neither are specialists. Even worse we don't have a glut of V8s hanging around in the yards to replace it with.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:21
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Cakefool posted:we don't have a glut of V8s hanging around in the yards to replace it with. That's not entirely true - they aren't popping out of every car you see, but there are usually a few in any yard, and a few phone calls can hook you up with any kind. Very few LS series motors over here. But plenty of Rover, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Toyota V8s. The issue is that we don't have any V8s with aftermarket parts or support. No fancy heads and cams and strokkkkkkker cranks for us, no sir.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:59
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You guys are making me want to get one of my FBs going for this summer instead of working on the race car ... FB. Darnit.
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Feb 9, 2016 20:07
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