|
You're absolutely right, but the Côte d'Or style is the style the cougar juice makers have imitated, so it's worth going to the source and seeing what a previous bad experience was supposed to taste like - but as you say, you can buy a bottle of white with Bourgogne on the label and get something different.
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 12:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 21:54 |
|
|
PT6A posted:I second all of these recommendations. I'd also consider trying a Chenin Blanc, either from Vouvray or Anjou. I don't have a bunch of experience with them, but the ones I've tried all stand out very positively in my mind. I just want to quote this as Chenin Blanc from Vouvray (Specifically the Loire Valley) has been amazing to me, and in my top wines of all times. That's not a lot but they're amazing. syntaxfunction fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Feb 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 12:39
|
|
|
Ola posted:You're absolutely right, but the Côte d'Or style is the style the cougar juice makers have imitated, so it's worth going to the source and seeing what a previous bad experience was supposed to taste like - but as you say, you can buy a bottle of white with Bourgogne on the label and get something different. Yeah, it really can't be overstated how wine styles can be ruined by poor imitators who don't know what they're doing. So much new world Chardonnay is oaked all to hell and back, and often lacks the necessary acidity to balance the residual sugar in the wine. I thought I hated chardonnay as well, until I drank some decent white burgundy. You can often see the same thing with off-dry rieslings. People say, "ah, I don't like sweeter wines at all" and then you introduce them to a well-crafted example from Alsace or MSR, and all of a sudden they don't hate the sweetness. lovely winemakers have done such damage to any number of grapes and styles this way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
I hate to mention NZ chardonnay again after the argument that was on the last page, but -- does anyone have any ideas why NZ chardonnay is in such limited supply and so expensive in Canada? After visiting a few stores yesterday, the cheapest I could find was Cloudy Bay (and the only other one I saw was Dog Point). Cloudy Bay has always treated me well in the past with their other wines, so I took a gamble, but it seems strange that there's nothing under that price level. Is it just a marketing issue in Canada (or perhaps just Alberta)? We've got NZ Pinot and Sauvignon Blanc coming out of our ears.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 15:50
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I hate to mention NZ chardonnay again after the argument that was on the last page, but -- does anyone have any ideas why NZ chardonnay is in such limited supply and so expensive in Canada? After visiting a few stores yesterday, the cheapest I could find was Cloudy Bay (and the only other one I saw was Dog Point). Cloudy Bay has always treated me well in the past with their other wines, so I took a gamble, but it seems strange that there's nothing under that price level. There's also much lower production of Chardonnay than "Sauvie B"
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
Cloudy Bay has a pretty wide range of wines don't they? Some cheap and some expensive. Their Chardonnay is probably grown and selected for quality and pricey everywhere. The only NZ Chardonnay I've had was the kind where the variety doesn't really matter... But would be interesting to try CB's.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 19:41
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I hate to mention NZ chardonnay again after the argument that was on the last page, but -- does anyone have any ideas why NZ chardonnay is in such limited supply and so expensive in Canada? After visiting a few stores yesterday, the cheapest I could find was Cloudy Bay (and the only other one I saw was Dog Point). Cloudy Bay has always treated me well in the past with their other wines, so I took a gamble, but it seems strange that there's nothing under that price level. Isn't Alberta the literal most expensive place to buy wine in the entire world? And NZ wine is the most expensive in the world in terms of average bottle price, so combining the two isn't pretty. Here in Ontario we have more selection than that, but it's still very limited. The infamous Kumeu River isn't imported at all, for example, but we have a few other decent producers whose entry-level bottlings are sub $30 that you could look out for, in approximate order of preference: Ata Rangi, Seresin, Marisco, Saint Clair, Nautilus, Stoneleigh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
Ola posted:Cloudy Bay has a pretty wide range of wines don't they? Some cheap and some expensive. Their Chardonnay is probably grown and selected for quality and pricey everywhere. The only NZ Chardonnay I've had was the kind where the variety doesn't really matter... But would be interesting to try CB's. We get three varieties here, and they're all definitely on the pricey side -- around what you'd pay for an average village appellation Burgundy, I'd say. The Chardonnay was $41, but one has to remember that our taxes are very unpleasant. The Sauv Blanc is a bit less, and the Pinot Noir is a bit more. Also, for some unknown reason, the Cloudy Bay website's age wall will not work if you say you're from Canada, and it sets a cookie once you fail it once. Thank god for Porn Mode... After some more investigation, it looks like it's at least theoretically possible to get Chardonnays that are more in line with the cost of other varietals, but I've yet to find a place that stocks any NZ chardonnay below $40. Must be a market thing -- I remember a wine rep telling me that chardonnays had taken a massive hit in popularity over the past few years, so maybe stores just aren't interested in stocking anything but reliable sellers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 21:11
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:Isn't Alberta the literal most expensive place to buy wine in the entire world? And NZ wine is the most expensive in the world in terms of average bottle price, so combining the two isn't pretty. It's possibly the most expensive place. I know that our spirits are still well cheaper than Quebec, but I wasn't into wine like I am now when I lived in QC so I'm not sure. I see that we have some of those other brands here, but it seems to be more of a wish-list thing -- "available in 3+ days" which often means "not available at all." There are definitely a lot of brands available here that produce a Chardonnay, but the Chardonnays all seem to be unavailable. Stoneleigh I believe I can find (based on a search of the AGLC's website), but I've not had thrilling experiences with their wines in the past. Thanks for the advice, though! Hopefully someday we can ship wine inter-provincially and I won't be constantly frustrated.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
PT6A posted:It's possibly the most expensive place. I know that our spirits are still well cheaper than Quebec, but I wasn't into wine like I am now when I lived in QC so I'm not sure. Stoneleigh is definitely my least favourite of those recs, however it's $10 and one of the few $10 Chards that are drinkable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:Stoneleigh is definitely my least favourite of those recs, however it's $10 and one of the few $10 Chards that are drinkable. Okay, we're definitely getting hosed in Alberta. $18.29 retail for the Stoneleigh. My usual Chardonnay pick in the $20 range is Marques de Casa Concha (probably like $11-12 in Ontario...), which I can often find on special for $15 or so.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Well, the Cloudy Bay isn't what I'd call affordable, but I think it was worth it. I'm not an expert, but I'd say: the nose hits me like a warm-climate Chardonnay, with more oak than I'd normally care for, but it's very nicely balanced with acidity and a wonderful lemon flavour midpalate. It's neither good enough nor cheap enough to be a regular purchase for me, but I think it's a very commendable wine and it's certainly piqued my curiosity for other NZ Chardonnays.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
Can anyone recommend to me a red wine that isn't tannic? I HATE tannic wines, so I normally don't drink reds, but I am looking to expand my horizons. Something fairly readily available would be nice. Thanks in advance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
LongSack posted:Can anyone recommend to me a red wine that isn't tannic? I HATE tannic wines, so I normally don't drink reds, but I am looking to expand my horizons. Something fairly readily available would be nice. Thanks in advance. Try a Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir. All reds have tannins, but some more than others.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 09:34
|
|
|
LongSack posted:Can anyone recommend to me a red wine that isn't tannic? I HATE tannic wines, so I normally don't drink reds, but I am looking to expand my horizons. Something fairly readily available would be nice. Thanks in advance. Echoing Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir, or any California Pinot Noir for that matter. Also, try some Gamay or varietal Grenache (when not blended with Syrah).
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 10:42
|
|
|
Just stay away from Old World wines in general. And less-expensive wines are less likely to be tannic. You may also wish to consider enjoying wines with fatty protein to neutralise the tannins.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
Thanks, all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:Just stay away from Old World wines in general. And less-expensive wines are less likely to be tannic. You may also wish to consider enjoying wines with fatty protein to neutralise the tannins. Except for Beaujolais. If you're looking for lighter, fruity red wines without much tannin and generally great qpr, you're looking for Beaujolais.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 04:39
|
|
|
idiotsavant posted:Except for Beaujolais. If you're looking for lighter, fruity red wines without much tannin and generally great qpr, you're looking for Beaujolais. I have heard good things about Beaujolais nouveau but haven't tried any. Sounds like something to check out, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
LongSack posted:I have heard good things about Beaujolais nouveau... You've been lied to. Buy Cru Beaujolais.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 06:49
|
|
|
Isn't a lot of Chinon pretty light on tannins?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 07:00
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Isn't a lot of Chinon pretty light on tannins? Nah, Cab Franc is not really light on tannin and I've not had one made in Chinon that was particularly low-tannin. There are some blends from the Touraine AOC that have a high percentage of Gamay and Pinot Noir that can be pretty light on tannins. Problem is that many others in the region contain a large proportion of Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon, and/or Côt (Malbec) which can make them quite tannic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 07:07
|
|
|
I've had Baudry and it was pretty tannic, but the last two bottles I've had were pretty light. When I get home I'll see if I still have one of the bottles, maybe they're just outliers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 07:45
|
|
|
LongSack posted:I have heard good things about Beaujolais nouveau but haven't tried any. Sounds like something to check out, thanks. Skip nouveau unless you have a decent idea of what you're doing. On the other hand Kermit Lynch distributes a blend from Lapierre called Raisins Gaulois that's made in a nouveau style and is basically the exact wine you're looking for. It's something like $14 and it's goddamn delicious. ^^ Loire Cab franc definitely has some tannin. It's still a lighter red wine, though - high acid, lighter bodied, and more floral/red fruits/herbaceous than dark and jammy. Maybe that's what's coloring your perception... idiotsavant fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 08:09
|
|
|
So unless i'm completely dumb, I think i just got a hilariously good deal on a bottle of wine at a high end restaurant. Groth cab was 110 a bottle (44 retail here so i know the markup was in place), but the conundrum 25th anniversary red blend was 29 a bottle. As long as i've known it conundrum is a 20 dollar bottle at retail stores. I was super happy with the conundrum, but was there any reason other than a misprinted price it was 29 bucks for the bottle? If it matters, my blackened mahi mahi with a pineapple salsa was 30 bucks.
Crunkjuice fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Feb 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 08:14
|
|
|
The reps in the thread would have a better idea, but a guess is that 2013 had insane yields, and the winery might be trying to move bottles. Does seem a little goofy tho.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 08:23
|
|
|
Crunkjuice posted:So unless i'm completely dumb, I think i just got a hilariously good deal on a bottle of wine at a high end restaurant. Groth cab was 110 a bottle (44 retail here so i know the markup was in place), but the conundrum 25th anniversary red blend was 29 a bottle. As long as i've known it conundrum is a 20 dollar bottle at retail stores. I was super happy with the conundrum, but was there any reason other than a misprinted price it was 29 bucks for the bottle? If it matters, my blackened mahi mahi with a pineapple salsa was 30 bucks. With Conundrum at $20 retail, the wholesale price could be as low as $11-12, giving plenty of markup on that $29 price. Not a bad price at all, but I wouldn't pay more than $45 in a restaurant for a wine that is $20 retail.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 11:24
|
|
|
I think I made out pretty well following the recs here for Loire Valley. All around $12 or $13. Got a Cab Franc, Vouvray Chenin Blanc, and a Sauv Blanc (not Pouilly-Fumé though, those were a bit pricey). The Beauj was one Total Wine was pushing more, but I figure it should be good. Have to see what I like the most. 
Comb Your Beard fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Feb 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 16:41
|
|
|
Crunkjuice posted:So unless i'm completely dumb, I think i just got a hilariously good deal on a bottle of wine at a high end restaurant. Groth cab was 110 a bottle (44 retail here so i know the markup was in place), but the conundrum 25th anniversary red blend was 29 a bottle. As long as i've known it conundrum is a 20 dollar bottle at retail stores. I was super happy with the conundrum, but was there any reason other than a misprinted price it was 29 bucks for the bottle? If it matters, my blackened mahi mahi with a pineapple salsa was 30 bucks. It's a good deal out at a restaurant but unless the red is priced way differently than the white is, the restaurant wasn't losing money or anything. We pay (or, used to, I think I'm dropping it) $12 a bottle where I work for the white blend and charge like $34 for it. Honestly the 110 bottle that goes at RETAIL for 44 sounds like the screwier markup situation to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
You'll pay $75-$125 here for at a restaurant for Conundurm Red; more once the lag in the rising USD hits.  idiotsavant posted:Except for Beaujolais. If you're looking for lighter, fruity red wines without much tannin and generally great qpr, you're looking for Beaujolais. Nouveau and Villages sure, but Cru is moderately tannic more often than not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
goferchan posted:It's a good deal out at a restaurant but unless the red is priced way differently than the white is, the restaurant wasn't losing money or anything. We pay (or, used to, I think I'm dropping it) $12 a bottle where I work for the white blend and charge like $34 for it. Honestly the 110 bottle that goes at RETAIL for 44 sounds like the screwier markup situation to me. Most restaurants around here tend to do a markup of around 2.5-2.75 times on lower-end wines (on wholesale, not retail price) from what I've seen. There's a restaurant around that has a nice white Burgundy for near-retail because they inherited a whole bunch of it from the previous incarnation/management of the restaurant and they just want it to be gone. I always order a few glasses whenever I go there, because the rest of the wine program is not so impressive, neither in terms of value nor quality.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
I do anywhere from 3.2 to 3.6x on bottles 30 and under. After that I'm 2.6 to 3.1. Super big bottles are priced at whatever I feel I can move it at.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
Well, don't make the mistake I just made. If you're going to buy wines above your normal price "for a special occasion," make a special occasion if you can't find one in the drinking window. Otherwise, you'll end up opening it on a fairly normal night anyway because you'll be scared it's past its peak, and you'll unfortunately be absolutely right... At least this was just a Catena Alta Cab Sauv from 2007. It was well above what I'd normally spend at the time I bought it, but now it's only slightly above average and nowhere near a "special occasion" wine anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
Not to quote Sideways or anything but opening a nice bottle IS a special enough occasion  now that I've started buying wine more seriously, I have a fair amount of bottles that are $45-$100 in my cellar, so "because it's ready and I'm excited to drink it" is becoming more and more the reason I'm opening nice bottles these days. I love wine and don't need much excuse anymore, and while taking a nice bottle to dinner with friends is wonderful, so is drinking a beautiful Syrah with my fiancée while watching Netflix because we both appreciate the wine. Has anyone opened a nice bottle for someone and had them just shrug it off or dislike it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
himajinga posted:Not to quote Sideways or anything but opening a nice bottle IS a special enough occasion Yeah, I very much agree with this attitude. Ironically, the Catena Alta was maybe $40 or $45 when I bought it, owning to our lovely exchange rate and awful taxes, but I just picked up a bottle of white Burgundy for $50 today, and I'm going to drink it tomorrow because "gently caress it, I want to, and I'm cooking myself a nice meal that will complement it beautifully." Maybe it was a mental block, but either way I don't want to do it again, and I don't want other people to make the same mistake. I haven't opened a good bottle of wine and had someone dislike it, but I did once get a whole fuckload of jamon iberico de bellota for a tasting and got a lukewarm reaction at best. I feel I was duly compensated by the fact I got to eat the vast majority of it with no complaint, while the cost was split, mind you 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 05:01
|
|
|
Agreeing so much. The wine is the occasion. Wasn't there a '59 first growth posted in this thread with a mortal fill level that had never found a special enough occasion? In addition to letting the wines go past their prime, you also start rating your life's moments critically. "Well this is a nice moment with friends and all, but it's not Chambertin-nice". And then you die.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 08:24
|
|
|
Ola posted:Agreeing so much. The wine is the occasion. Wasn't there a '59 first growth posted in this thread with a mortal fill level that had never found a special enough occasion? In this spirit, I'm drinking my first bottle of white 1er cru burgundy tonight Just Because (Marc Colin et Fils Saint-Aubin La Chateniere 2011). So far, it's loving fantastic. Not the best white wine I've ever had, but solidly in my top five (I must admit I have a soft spot for Spanish whites, particularly Ossian and all of Lopez de Heredia's offerings that I've had).
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
I hate opening a really nice bottle of wine for a special occasion. One of two things happens - either I love the wine, and so ignore the occasion, or I do not love the wine as much as I expected, and that sours the occasion. I drink all my most valued bottles (not necessarily most expensive, but those which mean the most to me, and which I am most excited to drink) either alone or with 1 person - sometimes my girlfriend, sometimes a friend who likes wine, sometimes my dad - and typically with a burger and a notepad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 01:25
|
|
|
There was an article in Serious Eats called "The Case for Bad Coffee" which, in short, makes the case that no one ever remembers the quality of a cup of coffee, but instead what happened over it. While I wouldn't go as far as the author (who starts the article by describing making a cup of Maxwell House) I think he does have a point. I'll make coffee with good beans for guests, but that's the time when the automatic coffee maker gets used, or if expecting several people a commercial vacuum pot gets made in advance. I've done the single cup drip for guests and unless only one person wants a cup, it's a dumb waste of time and a distraction from socializing. So for wine, yeah, I completely agree. At a big get together or any kind of special occasion cheap wine is great, because nobody cares, and nobody really wants to talk about the wine even if they are enjoying it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 03:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 21:54 |
|
|
Great article! I suppose in contrast to the author, for wine at least I won't drink what I consider "bad wine", but it's definitely cheap natty juice (idiotsavan'ts brought up Raisins Gaulois's a few times, that poo poo is perfect - or something like Tami Frappato) that does for me in the wine world what AA coffee does for the author.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 06:08
|
|