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Strategic Tea posted:Only the lead guy if I recall, and then only to cast him as this disgusting, disconnected thing. It's kind of cheesy in an over-the-top way which is why it stood out to me and I remember. Also I recently binged through the books after the first two episodes of the show, I was hooked.
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Feb 8, 2016 20:15
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pugnax posted:They do mention that everyone [Book 1]working on the project are sociopaths, in order to cope with experimenting on humans. I'm not sure if they imply they make them sociopaths by some drug or surgery or if there's a huge market of scientists who happen to be sociopaths. I could see how a sociopath would just be curious of the molecule and go to extremely hosed up lengths just to see what happens, even if the end result is craz or even no idea at all what it ends up doing or being. Trouble is they now have to be guarded 24/7 because they're literal sociopaths who're prone to murdering each other over minor inconveniences!
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Feb 8, 2016 20:21
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Are there any plans for this to come out on a streaming service or heck, on DVD any time soon?
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Feb 8, 2016 22:44
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Red Crown posted:Are there any plans for this to come out on a streaming service or heck, on DVD any time soon? Can't vouch for streaming but they have advertised the disc releases for April 5th.
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Feb 8, 2016 22:48
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Yeah maybe the year long delay between now and next season isn't such a bad thing for the show, if it gives time for it to be released on streaming services everywhere. e: oh well then the second season comes out on Syfy again, never mind
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Feb 8, 2016 22:56
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Evernoob posted:How long would it take in real life if a ship was going to travel from earth to mars at 0,38G constant acceleration, flipping around at the halfway point? This with good to optimal planetary alignment. This is maybe a bit late, but a constant 3.72 m/s^2 is actually quite a lot of acceleration. As a touchstone, that's about 8 miles/hour added to your velocity each second. An hour into the flight you've got a velocity of around 14 km/s and have covered around 25,000 km. Any constant, unbounded, acceleration is going to get you going at ludicrous speeds eventually. Second, they don't travel in straight lines so much as minimum time curves. The math for that is more than you likely want to hear about, but there is probably a video somewhere with a discussion of the brachistochrone curve's solution and history that gives an idea. These curves are not used for real life space exploration for reasons that other posters have already gone into, so viking and all the other probes we've launched have used gravity assists and Hohmann transfers instead. Zaphod42 posted:There's no limits on what something "human-created" would look like or behave like, dude. That's very small-minded. It seemed pretty clear to me that the protomolecule wasn't something made by the evil research team so much as something that they were investigating for potential exploitation. The almost reverent treatment of the stuff by the one scientist, and the way that they refer to it as some kind of separate unknown entity, seems to show that it's beyond us. It also doesn't mesh with the technology of the rest of the show; I don't think it's some nerd rapture poo poo going down.
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Feb 8, 2016 23:36
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akulanization posted:It seemed pretty clear to me that the protomolecule wasn't something made by the evil research team so much as something that they were investigating for potential exploitation. The almost reverent treatment of the stuff by the one scientist, and the way that they refer to it as some kind of separate unknown entity, seems to show that it's beyond us. It also doesn't mesh with the technology of the rest of the show; Again, that all applies exactly as much to alien tech as it does to post-singularity tech. They'd both be just as forieign, unknown and mysterious. You'd have reverent treatment for a new artificial life form. It would be beyond us. How does it not mesh with the technology of the rest of the show? All it takes for the singularity to happen is sufficiently advanced software on modern hardware, or slightly faster hardware. And just because they created artificial life doesn't mean they could harness it for consumer technology yet. The whole point is that they'd be at the stage where they just made it, but haven't yet harassed it. That fits everything we've seen in the show so far just as much if not more so than aliens. akulanization posted:I don't think it's some nerd rapture poo poo going down. Uh, okay? No real justification though, other than "in the books that's not what happens". I feel like you're writing it off because you just don't like the idea of a technological singularity or you disagree with some people who talked about it once. That's kinda silly.
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Feb 8, 2016 23:41
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I sure do like hearing about the nerd rapture aka technological singularity
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Feb 8, 2016 23:59
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Whacks poo poo happens, that even bewilders the evil TV scientists. Yeah, tech singularity, definitely.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:21
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Its not like they're completely lost, they obviously have a plan for how to handle the stuff and force its evolution or whatever to meet their own goals. They clearly understand something about it.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:29
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Was Eros not spinning? The star field was not rotating on the exterior shots.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:35
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gohmak posted:Was Eros not spinning? The star field was not rotating on the exterior shots. It's definitely supposed to be spinning.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:44
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Toast Museum posted:It's definitely supposed to be spinning. Yeah, if it wasn't spinning there would have been no gravity inside.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:59
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Zaphod42 posted:Again, that all applies exactly as much to alien tech as it does to post-singularity tech. They'd both be just as forieign, unknown and mysterious. Ugh, I thought you were making a joke; I can now see you are brutally serious about your singularity beliefs. Leaving that aside and looking at the issue the in context the show has given us, even if you seriously think that the protomolecule is in-house supertech from an earth corp, the people that made it would understand it. Further, they sure as heck wouldn't treat it as if it was a strange and semi-divine thing. They only understand it as far as they know that it does "stuff" to biological material if it is poked with a stick, and they know the dimensions of the stick. Also you seem to be completely ignoring that it's outside the clearly established aesthetics of the technology of the show, it uses a different color palette and it's got freaky giant three fingered arms. There is no visual connection implied between any of the tech that people use and the stuff the protomolecule does. You seriously look at the floating blue lights that take the shape of a man, and the grey thirty foot long arms, and the glowing blue crystals imbedded in human flesh and you think that looks like the Rochinante, or the Navu, or the Donnager, or the Annubis, or Ceres? There isn't even a tiny bit of shared visual style between them, and clearly that's trying to make the stuff the protomolecule does look absolutely alien to the world that it's been placed in. As for me disagreeing with the recursive self improvement nerd rapture computer YHWH interpretation of the protomolecule, it's no more silly than you latching onto that explanation because you seem to believe. I haven't read the books by the way, I have no idea what the "correct" interpretation is.
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Feb 9, 2016 01:15
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Singularity man forgets that they mention early on that they need to get a sample from Phoebe (the recording that Miller finds). Sounds like something they found there, to me, something which they're now poking with a stick on Eros.
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Feb 9, 2016 01:28
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akulanization posted:Ugh, I thought you were making a joke; I can now see you are brutally serious about your singularity beliefs. It has nothing to do with beliefs. This is science-fiction. Do you believe that the Epstein Drive is going to happen?  Nope! The whole thing is fiction.akulanization posted:Leaving that aside and looking at the issue the in context the show has given us, even if you seriously think that the protomolecule is in-house supertech from an earth corp, the people that made it would understand it. Further, they sure as heck wouldn't treat it as if it was a strange and semi-divine thing. They only understand it as far as they know that it does "stuff" to biological material if it is poked with a stick, and they know the dimensions of the stick. All this ignores the other point, which is the entire pre-requisite. You can't just say "i'm ignoring part of your premise...and now it doesn't make sense!" But even ignoring that, you think science never makes breakthroughs they don't understand at first? Totally happens. http://www.space.com/29308-nasa-hyperspace-em-drive.html And no, I don't think it looks anything like the tech on the other planets. That is, again, the entire point. Its not something most people have. Its not Martian tech. Its something on a whole other level. Like living nanobots. Its not supposed to be the same tech as the Rochinante or the Donnager, that's the whole point! The whole point was we were discussing if the show made it seem like aliens or not, and clearly a lot of us got the impression (I'm not the only one, go back a couple pages) that it wasn't alien in origin. I'm not saying it being alien is impossible like you're saying it being man-made grey goo is, I'm just saying that's what the show seemed to imply since there wasn't major evidence otherwise. Everything you've said makes it clearly alien doesn't at all, it just makes it seem like a novel breakthrough. I'm so sorry I said "technological singularity" because apparently that's a trigger phrase for a lot of goons. Just pretend I said "living, evolving nanobots", or 'grey goo' instead from the start okay? Von Neumann was doing theories on self-replicating nano-machines in the 1940s, there's a lot of things that could be that aren't that far fetched. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_universal_constructor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 01:36
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Zaphod42 posted:It has nothing to do with beliefs. This is science-fiction. Do you believe that the Epstein Drive is going to happen? Look I'm not saying you are alone in your opinion about what's happening in the show, I'm just addressing you as you are the one responding to me. I'm certainly not saying that research cannot produce unexpected results, but generally when it does that's because the underlying assumptions were flawed. Only rarely does something get built that utterly defies it's creator's expectations, and only even more rarely does that thing actually get recognized as valuable instead of a failure. For instance that drive is weird, but it's also pretty understandable (photopressure and a waveguide that allows "easier" propagation in +z than -z). And when they talk about the testing telling them that it works, that was the expected result. My feeling is that the show has gone to pains to build up an aesthetic for itself. The ships look similar even if some are shinier and slicker, the stations have a key visual motif or two, and you get a sense of what humanity can build in this setting and how they make it look. It's never really indicated anywhere that humans have made Von Neumann machines, or that that's something that they are trying to do. I mean you'd think mars would be all over a self replicating machine capable of gross or femtoscopic labor with only an energy input, they have an atmosphere to completely rework. A key feature of the work seems to be that humanity has these grand science fiction ambitions, but they are doing them the slow and oldfashioned way; with human muscles guiding a lot of the labor and human brains doing most of the thinking. The technology at the heart of the protomolecule is far in excess of anything that humanity has been shown to have or approach, and I'm fairly certain they talked about finding it at one point. It seems as much of a stretch that there was a secret, and massive, technological breakthrough made as it would be to find alien stuff in a remote corner of the solar system. From the point where neither seems like it must be the case because of logic, we have to make arguments about what feelings the show is conveying about the protomolecule. And frankly the show frames it more like cosmic horror or a thing from the beyond than as a weapon or a new piece of tech. They ramped up the horror and wrongness in the finale and the preceding episode, which leads me to feel that this isn't going in a direction that exposes the protomolecule as a product of human ingenuity and cruelty.
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Feb 9, 2016 02:55
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This is pretty much what happens when shows go off season in TVIV isn't it.
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Feb 9, 2016 03:18
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Flesh Forge posted:This is pretty much what happens when shows go off season in TVIV isn't it. I think you'll find I can be insufferable about a show when it's in season too.
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Feb 9, 2016 03:26
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FWIW... having only seen the show, I originally figured the infection was just some sort of man made mutagen. I assumed that it absorbed and metabolized radioactive energy, which some existing organic matter can and does do on earth right now. Basically this sounded like the T virus in space to me. Didn't really scream 'alien.'
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Feb 9, 2016 03:39
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I thought it might be man-made until I saw how the doctor in the last two episodes treats it. I think it was pretty clearly not something he or anyone else he knows developed, based on the reverence on display. He doesn't treat it like it is his child or anything, he treats it like it's an entirely separate godlike entity. To me that only really fits if it was found, not created. E: ^- also it's been a long time and this poo poo was always hazy to begin with but I don't think science entirely created the T virus either. At least not originally. Wasn't it some modified ancient ant thing? I'd also accept the protomolecule as it stands as us dicking with something alien we don't understand, but I really don't think it's 100% human made. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 04:12
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akulanization posted:looking at the issue the in context the show has given us, even if you seriously think that the protomolecule is in-house supertech from an earth corp, the people that made it would understand it. akulanization posted:Also you seem to be completely ignoring that it's outside the clearly established aesthetics of the technology of the show Milky Moor posted:Singularity man forgets that they mention early on that they need to get a sample from Phoebe (the recording that Miller finds). Sounds like something they found there, to me, something which they're now poking with a stick on Eros. akulanization posted:It's never really indicated anywhere that humans have made Von Neumann machines, or that that's something that they are trying to do. I mean you'd think mars would be all over a self replicating machine capable of gross or femtoscopic labor with only an energy input, they have an atmosphere to completely rework. NmareBfly posted:I thought it might be man-made until I saw how the doctor in the last two episodes treats it. I think it was pretty clearly not something he or anyone else he knows developed, based on the reverence on display. He doesn't treat it like it is his child or anything, he treats it like it's an entirely separate godlike entity. To me that only really fits if it was found, not created.
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Feb 9, 2016 05:08
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Tiggum posted:I think you only see it that way because you already had preconceived ideas about it. I'm not sure what you mean by this. I haven't read the books.
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Feb 9, 2016 05:44
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I just want to see a number four burrito-style up close.
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Feb 9, 2016 06:07
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Is "delta-v" something physicists actually say, or is it just a nerd term? It took me a while to figure out what people were talking about. Why not say "acceleration" or "change in velocity" or dV? Is it because you cant type a triangle?
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Feb 9, 2016 06:09
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If you are writing on a whiteboard then it is "Δv", if you are writing on the internet then it is "delta v" or "dv".
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Feb 9, 2016 06:14
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pugnax posted:I just want to see a number four burrito-style up close. It's the real mystery of the show
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Feb 9, 2016 06:20
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The recipe for a number four, burrito style is filed next to how to use the seashells.
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Feb 9, 2016 07:01
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withak posted:The recipe for a number four, burrito style is filed next to how to use the seashells. Screw you Demolition Man!
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Feb 9, 2016 07:26
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Ice posted:Is "delta-v" something physicists actually say, or is it just a nerd term? It took me a while to figure out what people were talking about. Why not say "acceleration" or "change in velocity" or dV? Is it because you cant type a triangle? I've only ever heard it spoken as "delta-v," but that's mostly coming from engineers and not physicists. Saying "dV" out loud strikes me as weird since it's only ever written that way when it's inconvenient to type or write "Δv."
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Feb 9, 2016 14:11
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Ice posted:Is "delta-v" something physicists actually say, or is it just a nerd term? It took me a while to figure out what people were talking about. Why not say "acceleration" or "change in velocity" or dV? Is it because you cant type a triangle? "delta-v" is definitely a thing engineers say (grew up raised by engineers)(which explains a lot). I've never seen it as dV, which would be confusing I think, since typically d=derivative and delta=change.
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Feb 9, 2016 15:26
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Well, the acceleration function is the derivative of the velocity function.
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Feb 9, 2016 15:31
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Where I'm from "a" is the commonly used symbol for acceleration, unless when dealing with gravitation. Then "g" is used (9,81m/sē). a = dV seems pretty weird to me as I would rather call it a= dV/dt. In any case sorry for the whole derail. I just wanted to know how long a trip from earth to mars would take under 0.38g acceleration. And I'm amazed it would be such a quick trip. Actually reaching (and shooting by) mars would even be much quicker.
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Feb 9, 2016 15:59
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flosofl posted:"delta-v" is definitely a thing engineers say (grew up raised by engineers)(which explains a lot). I've never seen it as dV, which would be confusing I think, since typically d=derivative and delta=change. Could be worse. Could have been Software Engineers.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:00
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flosofl posted:"delta-v" is definitely a thing engineers say (grew up raised by engineers)(which explains a lot). I've never seen it as dV, which would be confusing I think, since typically d=derivative and delta=change. That's what a derivative is: the change of one quantity with respect to another. delta-V/delta-t = dV/dt = the rate of change of velocity with respect to time = acceleration. If you just care about the change in velocity irrespective of time, then you don't care about delta-t and delta-v is all you're worried about.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:04
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When talking about this stuff, the dt is implied unless someone says otherwise.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:05
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akulanization posted:My feeling is that the show has gone to pains to build up an aesthetic for itself. The ships look similar even if some are shinier and slicker, the stations have a key visual motif or two, and you get a sense of what humanity can build in this setting and how they make it look. It's never really indicated anywhere that humans have made Von Neumann machines, or that that's something that they are trying to do. I mean you'd think mars would be all over a self replicating machine capable of gross or femtoscopic labor with only an energy input, they have an atmosphere to completely rework. A key feature of the work seems to be that humanity has these grand science fiction ambitions, but they are doing them the slow and oldfashioned way; with human muscles guiding a lot of the labor and human brains doing most of the thinking. The technology at the heart of the protomolecule is far in excess of anything that humanity has been shown to have or approach, and I'm fairly certain they talked about finding it at one point. It seems as much of a stretch that there was a secret, and massive, technological breakthrough made as it would be to find alien stuff in a remote corner of the solar system. From the point where neither seems like it must be the case because of logic, we have to make arguments about what feelings the show is conveying about the protomolecule. And frankly the show frames it more like cosmic horror or a thing from the beyond than as a weapon or a new piece of tech. They ramped up the horror and wrongness in the finale and the preceding episode, which leads me to feel that this isn't going in a direction that exposes the protomolecule as a product of human ingenuity and cruelty. Mars would be all over it... if they could make it. Again the whole point is that it would be a brand new breakthrough, something that just happened. I really don't think its as much of a stretch as you keep arguing for. Ultimately you agree that both are equally implausible, and I agree. And if you go back a few pages in this thread, I was actually originally convinced it was alien in origin. I was posting several spoiler tagged posts saying "oh boy, is it aliens? is it not aliens? this is very intriguing!" and I was leaning towards aliens. I was just expressing an opinion that the show, if anything, seemed to veer back towards the "not aliens" theory, and has not offered anything concrete one way or another. So it was actually shocking to hear that wasn't intended and in the book its just alien. No, I do not think the show talked about finding it at one point. Its entirely possible I missed that, and that would be the kind of detail you could then point to and this whole discussion would be pointless But I don't remember anything like that. I bet the book has lots more detail, naturally. (I've heard that its clear its alien in origin as soon as they get on the Anubis)Human ingenuity and cruelty can't produce horror or wrongness? All non horror movies that aren't also scienice-fiction would like to have a word with you about that.  extravadanza posted:FWIW... having only seen the show, I originally figured the infection was just some sort of man made mutagen. I assumed that it absorbed and metabolized radioactive energy, which some existing organic matter can and does do on earth right now. Tiggum posted:Maybe. Maybe they accidentally created it by experimenting with things they didn't understand. Maybe they were trying to do something else and got this instead. Maybe it was made by one group of people and it got out of control and killed them and now another group is trying to understand an exploit it. Thankyou. loving exactly. See, akulanization, I'm not totally off my rocker here. I'm really sorry I triggered you by saying "technological singularity". Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 16:54
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Ice posted:Is "delta-v" something physicists actually say, or is it just a nerd term? It took me a while to figure out what people were talking about. Why not say "acceleration" or "change in velocity" or dV? Is it because you cant type a triangle? Yes "delta-____" is something mathematicians and scientists and physicists REGULARLY say. Its one of those things like 'theta' which if you're not in math would probably sound really weird and jargon-y, but if you're in math its totally common vernacular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,_science,_and_engineering Delta is probably the most common to actually say out loud. Theta and Sigma are used very often in formulas but you don't usually say "Sigma the equation" you say "sum the equation over ___" or whatever, but you absolutely say "The delta-t is ____". flosofl posted:"delta-v" is definitely a thing engineers say (grew up raised by engineers)(which explains a lot). I've never seen it as dV, which would be confusing I think, since typically d=derivative and delta=change. Yeah dV would be the derivative of V, like dV/dX, derivative of V with respect to x. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 16:59
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I'm pretty sure I learned about delta-V in high school physics. (I mean, I was introduced to the concept by Robert Heinlein, but beyond that...) It's that common.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:12
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I'm liking the direction this thread has taken after the finale. very good. Can we do a nerdy discussion about the theoretical efficiency of the epstein drive given the amount of reaction mass it would take to generate a constant 0.38g thrust using current technologies?
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Feb 9, 2016 17:17
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