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WAR FOOT posted:There are lots of ways to deal with cheap, impetuous warbands. Yu Jing is uniquely situated to avoid them, though. Their best CC specialists are Hidden Deployment. I wouldn't stress too much about it, unless there's a fairly competent YJ player around you. If you're truly stressed about a CC unit monstering you, what army will you be taking? Probably something like this:  Ariadna────────────────────────────────────────────────── Group 1   9  1  1 LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (9) LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (9) VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (6) VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (6) SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38) WARDRIVER Hacker (Defensive Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17) 112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (12) VAN ZANT AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (38) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (8) CHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (20)Group 2 4 3 2 DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (14) BRISCARD Paramedic (Medikit) Marksman Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (26) DEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (30)  K-9 ANTIPODE AP CCW. (7) CHASSEUR (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) TRAKTOR MUL (Total Reaction) Uragan MRL / Electric Pulse. (1 | 18) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (8) CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 21)4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open with Army 5 General gameplan is to hit hard if I get deployment, or set up for map control if I win initiative. Use the impetuous models conservatively to set up for a turn 2 blitz on VIP models and use the Spetz/Van Zant to remove orders/TAGs. Chasseurs, the Traktor, and the Sniper try to bleed orders and set up for taking objectives when available.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:09
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I wouldn't stress too much about CC with that list. You've not got much worth hunting - Apart from the pretty obvious Lt options, which might be worth Minelaying near, just to ensure ambushes might fail. Even if a CC unit does get into your support units, you'll only be losing cheap orders. You don't really have anything you can't afford to lose, which is the crux of the most powerful Infinity lists.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:25
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Coping with MSV2/Smoke with no response taught me the value of a dispersed list. The obvious LT options are a problem as my group rarely LT hunts. I've got little experience other than dodging MSV2 smoke traps and the occasional Ninja. Can you bank on terrain to make LT hunting hard? Shove the LT in a corner smothered with templates and hope that they survive turn 1?
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Feb 8, 2016 10:03
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Rules question: I was just re-reading about camo and stealth and is it true that I can use camo to just walk up to someone in their LOF, enter base to base and attack them and their only ARO is cc attack, dodge, reset or whatever they can do engaged? Obviously any nearby can shoot or whatever. Not a viking fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 12:10
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IIRC if you declare moving into B2B you reveal for that whole order so the CC victim could declare a Shoot ARO and roll FTF your CC against their BS. But don't quote me on that.
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Feb 8, 2016 12:25
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tokenbrownguy posted:Coping with MSV2/Smoke with no response taught me the value of a dispersed list. Honestly, it depends a lot on your opponent. I've had games where I've traded away Shinobu in turn one for a chance to catch the LT. Bran do Castro, Covert Uxia, Shinobu/Oniwaben, Speculo. Fiday variants will probably be used in this manner. Our meta is pretty drat good at identifying LTs - If I play against ALEPH, YJ or PanO, 90% of the time I can pinpoint them, and often kill them, in turn one. A wellplaced Tiger Soldier or 'waben is sufficient. It's just something to be aware of, though. You can't account for every 'what if?' scenario.
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Feb 8, 2016 13:13
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Pierzak posted:IIRC if you declare moving into B2B you reveal for that whole order so the CC victim could declare a Shoot ARO and roll FTF your CC against their BS. But don't quote me on that. That's correct. However, your Martial Arts and Surprise strike still applies - So choosing 'Shoot' is often a terrible idea, as you're hitting on an incredibly low number, and they probably can't roll below you.
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Feb 8, 2016 13:16
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Stealth effects: "If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state" p. 102 I read that as he doesn't get to shoot. The example on page 71 agrees with me although its unclear if the attacker started out of LOS. Not a viking fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 14:30
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Also page 71. "They may, however, choose to react with an attack against the [engaging camo]. The Fusilier, now in base contact, may react by declaring a BS Attack, a CC Attack or a Dodge, for example." My god, I would fear nothing in this game if templates didn't deter CC.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:17
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I didn't read the headline of the paragraph I was quoting where it says "enemy facing away" 
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Feb 8, 2016 18:53
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Happens to all of us. Even though it's a huge step up from N2, it's still quite poorly laid out.
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Feb 8, 2016 19:01
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WAR FOOT posted:I guess that takes me from automatically hitting to... Automatically hitting. It's funny watching my friend slowly start to realize all the cc poo poo he can do with YJ.
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Feb 8, 2016 19:03
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Are the USAriadna Devil Dogs teams actually good at CC? They don't have a big list of skills like ninjas do. The dog does have sensor though, which is kind of neat for fighting ninjas.
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Feb 8, 2016 19:09
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tokenbrownguy posted:Even better, I'd argue, is attacking without the chance of a FtF roll. AD and MSV2/smoke shenanigans are kings of breaking supfire. Forgot about that - excellent point, and another reason that suppression fire is so great on MSV models, or models with 360 visor. (not quite sure how SSL2 would respond to shots from behind, would shooting back break the suppression?) Actually, suppression is so dependent not only on board position and your enemy's threats, but on the unit type. MSV2 suppression will guarantee wreckage of smoke-dodging warbands, provided there's enough space to avoid templates. Heavy ARM and multi-wound suppression users can simply tank chain rifle hits to the face. There's so much variation and it's all about how you control your match-ups. Great CC chat all round. That TO and high CC combo is pretty sick. I remember a casual game where I beasted McMurrough at my JSA opponent and butchered his O-Yoroi TAG. He then revealed the oniwaban special character, defeated McMurrough sword to sword, re-camoed, and then sliced my Iguana in half! Only the Intruders saved me from a humiliating defeat.
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Feb 8, 2016 21:51
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dexefiend posted:Are the USAriadna Devil Dogs teams actually good at CC? They don't have a big list of skills like ninjas do. Dogs fulfill a different role to ninja, imo. Ninja want to chase down fragile, expensive, single-wound models. Dogs are more there to sort of eat any order monkey that gets in their way, but, imo, the best way to use them is to provide precise smoke, then move into CC with an expensive, durable unit. That way, it'll take your opponent at least a few orders to get them back out again.
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Feb 9, 2016 02:03
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Never had a babby dog actually survive to contact with a baddy. Babby dog is great for catching an extra ARO when the opponent inevitably sets up a supfire to catch the impetuous models.
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Feb 9, 2016 02:59
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I'm late to Infinity but I grabbed Operation Icestorm, loving the models and going to try and play my first game/walkthrough missions this weekend. In the meantime I painted up the Reverend Healer (Cross posting from Painting thread) 
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Feb 10, 2016 12:14
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Thats purdy! We're having our first ITS event in my town, organized by me! We're looking at 4 players so far, including myself. I hope I don't end up being a ringer :p Have everyone tried more REM heavy lists? Was toying around last night with 7 REM and two HD+ in a 11 model army.
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Feb 10, 2016 12:39
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So i'm reading the rules for the GHAZI MUTTAWI'AH (sorry copied and pasted from a website but all in caps) am i reading right for 5 points you get a model that gets two orders it can use every turn? I know it can't use cover, etc but seems a pretty cheap horde troop you can run at stuff to keep people busy! Pity the models look a bit crap. thinking three of those for 15 pts would be a nice little addition to any force.
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Feb 10, 2016 16:49
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We had an 18 person 4 round ITS tournament last saturday that was a resounding success! We had 20 pre-register but 1 person dropped out last minute, and one of the TO's decided not to play to keep it an even number of competitors. Unfortunately I didn't have time to take notes of my games so I can't really share a detailed battle report but I thought i'd at least share what I can remember as well as some event photos. We played Nimbus Zone, Highly Classified, Transmission Matrix and Supremacy. First Game was Nimbus Zone, Haqqislam(me) vs Aleph. 6 - 3 My opponent took a pretty interesting list of myrmidons and 2 asuras with spitfires. His only specialists were combat droppers, which seemed like an odd choice given the exclusion zone. I won the roll for turn. He deployed with nothing in ARO to the objectives so I spent the entire first turn running my Tuareg Hacker around taking 2 Antennas, and 2 Consoles, making every WIP roll the first time. Aleph turn 1 resulted in him popping smoke with his myrmidon and spending all his orders trying to kill my Tuareg, and Hunzakut FO. He succeeded in taking them both out but i subsequently ran my Ghulam FOs, and Janissary dr up the board to take the remaining consoles, as well as getting into base contact with them to score control for 2 points. Aleph turn 2 finally saw a specialist when he combat dropped a bot behind my naffatun on my side of the board, I failed my change facing but he ended up walking in front of the naffatun to get to a console, so i was able to get my ARO shot off. Unfortunately he made his ARM rolls, and put poor old Naffy 6 feet deep. On my last turn I just wanted to score the remaining objectives. The last 3 objectives were all in line of sight for the asura, and my Janissary doctor just could not dislodge her so I had to run out of cover and try to take the objectives relying on the dice gods. Sadly, I failed to take any objectives in my mad dash, and the asura shot the Janissary dead. Aleph turn 3 saw the reminaing combat droppers come in to get into base contact with the consoles, scoring him a total of 3 points(1 for a console hack, 2 for controlling more consoles), and 6 points for me(3 console hack, 1 classified, 2 for hacking more antennas). Second Game was Highly Classifed, Haqq(me) vs Corregidor. 10 - 2 For the primary objectives we flipped Test Run, Sabotage, Experimental Drugs and Extreme Prejudice with my Secondary objective being HVT:Designation. Thankfully my second list had a najjarun engineer with HMG TR bot. Once again I won the LT. roll and opted for first turn. I immediately wanted to try and score my engineer objectives before he got blown off the board so I had my bikers deploy so that they could create some nice smoke walls for my engineer to run through to get sabotage. He deployed 2 link teams firmly behind cover, with a single linked alguacil sniper for ARO fire. With no MSV2, i just plopped a smoke right on her head and spent my turn running objectives with ease. My opponent also made the mistake of plopping his HVT in the middle of the board, in open space that made it very easy for my Hunzakut FO to get to. The game was pretty easy once I was able to run zuleyka up the board and land a nice flamer template a nicely stacked up line of wildcats, netting me 2 kills for my biker. With his algucil link stuck on the roof of a building, and his wildcat link in shambles, he resorted to trying to use his intruder HMG+smoke to dislodge my control of the board. His first target was my Hunzakut FO who was in suppression, and managed to land a crit(needing a 2!) on his intruder, quickly shutting down his chances of winning. With all his major killing pieces down, and with a single alguacil paramedic remaining, the game was firmly in my control. Third Game was Transmission Matrix, Haqq(me) vs Shock Army. 6-4 A lot happened this game but it mostly came down to me winning the LT roll and taking deployment. Thankfully my opponent took first turn, so it really just came down to me picking off points around antennas for the first 2 turns and scoring me domination points. My classifieds were telemetry and HVT: Designation. He deployed his HVT really well, making it very difficult for my Hunzakut FO to get at her. He also deployed a minelayer infiltrator next to his HVT, so that when i began to activate my Hunzakut she was blown off the board turn 1. My tuareg hacker was nowhere near the HVT, and instead was deployed to take out one of his antennas that had a lone machinist and FO remote for defense. She was able to at least get me telemetry. It was really back and forth for most of the game but eventually he was just able to out shoot me(a lot of ARM rolls going his way!) so by turn 3 i was barely out of retreat with only a ghulam FO, Azrail, and 2 Naffatun remaining. I just did not have enough orders or killing power to prevent him from dominating more antennas so I tried to secure the HVT but my azrail was too slow to make it in time. Fourth Game was Supremacy, Haqq(me) vs Nomads. 10-0 This game was a complete stomp. My opponent deployed almost everything on one side of the board, with a single combat dropper. Seeing that everything he had was pretty firmly going for one quadrant, I just used my superior numbers and ARO pieces to box him in on that one lone quadrant. I took all 4 antennas turn 1, and had 5 specialists remaining by the end, so the 2 he had contested still went my way. Final Score of 32, getting me first place, and a 4'x4' Frontline Gaming Fat mat! Really happy with my performance overall. I used the same list for 3/4 of the games,only changing lists when i needed an engineer for highly classified. The event was a lot of fun, and it took really fast play from me to get everything done in our 90 min rounds(which included deployment time). Second place was the Corregidor player. Nicest guy there, really happy he placed so well. Third place was the Shock Army player, played by one of the organizers. The attendance breakdown was: Nomads - 5 (1 Corregidor, 4 Vanilla) Haqqislam - 3 (1 Hassasin, 2 Vanilla) PanOceania - 3 (1 Shock Army, 1 Military Order, 1 Vanilla) Yu Jing - 2 Combined - 2 (1 Morat Aggression, 1 Vanilla) Ariadna - 1 Aleph - 1 Tohaa - 1 Really shocking to see so many nomads. It was really interesting to see how different each Nomad list was from one another. Each player definitely had their own take on the army. Photos taken by the TO who borrowed the camera resulting in a lot of unfocused shots: http://imgur.com/a/aCpCA My stuff is all the light green haqqislam.
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Feb 10, 2016 17:25
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Congratulations mate! Sounds like you controlled your matches really well and played to the mission. For some of those more complex, multi-obj games, going first and just getting points can be a real winner. Good job securing all 4 consoles for supremacy, for instance. Game 1, Nimbus Zone, is it not 3pts for taking more antennas? I ask because I once did the same as you and took/destroyed 3 of 4 by going first. 4 games over a day is a real lick-out, even with 3 I feel pretty mentally knackered by the end. Great looking venue, tables and armies though. Where was this? I find Infinity, with a small player base, is very prone to these imbalances in the pool of players. Like the last event I went to had 4/10 playing some stripe of Ariadna. Nomads and PanO definitely got a big boost from Icestorm.
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Feb 10, 2016 19:10
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Genghis Cohen posted:Congratulations mate! Sounds like you controlled your matches really well and played to the mission. For some of those more complex, multi-obj games, going first and just getting points can be a real winner. Good job securing all 4 consoles for supremacy, for instance. Game 1, Nimbus Zone, is it not 3pts for taking more antennas? I ask because I once did the same as you and took/destroyed 3 of 4 by going first. Yea it probably is. I was just going off of memory. This was in Albertastan, Canada. We have a really nice scene here that is slowly growing. I managed to get two of my University buddies into the game over christmas, one of which came to the tourney and placed 8th with his Yu Jing! Pretty impressive considering it was his first ITS event. I've got another buddy i'm trying to press gang into infinity by giving him my PanO nomads. We have a really great local store here that has a lot of infinity stock, with the lowest prices locally, and then gives us a 25% discount during tournaments and leagues there. It's really helping Infinity pick up here.
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Feb 10, 2016 19:51
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by.a.teammate posted:So i'm reading the rules for the GHAZI MUTTAWI'AH (sorry copied and pasted from a website but all in caps) am i reading right for 5 points you get a model that gets two orders it can use every turn? I know it can't use cover, etc but seems a pretty cheap horde troop you can run at stuff to keep people busy! Pity the models look a bit crap. Read what Jammer does and you'll definetly want to take them.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:52
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MrSquarepants posted:We have a really great local store here that has a lot of infinity stock, with the lowest prices locally, and then gives us a 25% discount during tournaments and leagues there. It's really helping Infinity pick up here. That is real nice. The main place I play is actively phasing out Infinity and even quicker now since someone apparently uninvolved in the community has been giving "demos" where he just beats the gently caress out of new players so bad that a parent came in and complained.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:11
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The hosts of the podcast Remote Presence really love REMs, so I wanted to make a REM heavy list. How does this look?  Combined Army - Remote Heavy (299/300 | 5.5/6)Group #1 | 10 Models |  10  0  0  E-Drone Combi | Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse (0.5 | 20) Ikadron Batroids Baggage | Light Flamethrower (2), Flash Pulse, Pistol / Electric Pulse (9) M-Drone Combi | Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse (17) T-Drone Smart Missile Launcher | Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse (1.5 | 18) Umbra Legates Hacker | Hacker, Hacking Device Plus, Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Pistol / DA CCW (0.5 | 43) The Charontids Hacker Lieutenant | Hacker, Hacking Device Plus, Lieutenant, Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser, Heavy Pistol / Knife (0.5 | 73) Unidron Batroids Observer | Forward Observer, Plasma Carbine, Pistol / Electric Pulse (15) Q-Drone Plasma | Plasma Rifle / Electric Pulse (1 | 25) Ikadron Batroids Baggage | Light Flamethrower (2), Flash Pulse, Pistol / Electric Pulse (9) Ko Dali Combi | Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Assault Pistol (2) / D-Charges, Knife (37)Group #2 | 1 Models | 1 0 0  Maakrep Trackers Unit MULTI Sniper Rifle | MULTI Sniper Rifle, Pistol / Knife (1.5 | 33) Open in MayaNet
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Feb 10, 2016 22:22
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Too much meat.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:16
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Not a viking posted:Read what Jammer does and you'll definetly want to take them. I'm sure it's my lack of experience but reading the rules the jammer and to make people isolated, which does seem good but isn't it better just to shoot then with the chain rifle or boarding shotgun?
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Feb 10, 2016 23:25
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by.a.teammate posted:I'm sure it's my lack of experience but reading the rules the jammer and to make people isolated, which does seem good but isn't it better just to shoot then with the chain rifle or boarding shotgun? Jammers are ZoC WIP-based weapons that don't require line of fire. Yeah. They're really loving good.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:37
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by.a.teammate posted:I'm sure it's my lack of experience but reading the rules the jammer and to make people isolated, which does seem good but isn't it better just to shoot then with the chain rifle or boarding shotgun? The strength of Jammer (or any other E/M weapon, or some other ammo types, notably Adhesive) is that it will Immobilize a TAG or HI model with a successful hit. This means it becomes useless in 1 roll of the dice, while it could take a chain rifle to the face and keep on going, even if it were to fail the ARM roll. These sort of weapons are usually worse than a rifle/pistol/etc against 1W 'normal' models, and the funky extra weapons come into their own in certain unusual situations. You are spot on with the idea of taking some extras in any list though - very few 10-model single combat group lists wouldn't benefit from a little points trim, then the addition of 4 irregular impetuous warbands to provide smoke and pressure the enemy.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:39
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The Ghazi are also aces at breaking Link teams. There's no way to rebuild a Link in the reactive turn, so if you can break the link, suddenly that B2, SSL2 ARO powerhouse your opponent was counting on is just a bunch of dudes standing there with their dicks in their hands. That's when you switch to the Chain Rifle.
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Feb 11, 2016 02:46
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Muttuiah are hands-down the best warband in the game.
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Feb 11, 2016 07:45
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I do miss smoke though.
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Feb 11, 2016 08:44
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Corbeau posted:I do miss smoke though. Wait until HSN3, then repost this.
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Feb 11, 2016 09:34
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One has to think that HSN3 is going to nerf jammers though.
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Feb 11, 2016 10:19
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Hopefully, in the same way that Sepsitor was nerfed. Still. All those tools, and smoke? Just you wait.
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Feb 11, 2016 10:56
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(sorry trying to decide what to by next) How useful are Kameel remotes? the model looks cool as but it seems only useful if you're using lots of hacking? The other remotes look cool but it's hard finding them to buy, i assume the one with the HMG would be a good buy? by.a.teammate fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 12:26
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Usually used as the basic variant for cheap orders. The EVO has to wait until HSN3 to get full new rules (it's rumored to become a full support hacker) and the combi TR is worse than Shihab but can be very useful in Paradiso missions where you have to haul crates and whatnot and want a protected baggagebot.
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Feb 11, 2016 12:30
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Pierzak posted:Usually used as the basic variant for cheap orders. The EVO has to wait until HSN3 to get full new rules (it's rumored to become a full support hacker) and the combi TR is worse than Shihab but can be very useful in Paradiso missions where you have to haul crates and whatnot and want a protected baggagebot. I stupidly never thought about them as order creators but I guess they create orders like anyone else! Ugh remotes and jammer dudes are gonna set me back £50! by.a.teammate fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 12:47
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by.a.teammate posted:I stupidly never thought about them as order creators but I guess they create orders like anyone else!
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Feb 11, 2016 12:53
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Okay so was thinking of this if I can get all the figures in time for my next slow grow league game? Haqqislam────────────────────────────────────────────────── Group 1 6 1 0 NAFFATŪN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (12) LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26) GHULAM Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (16) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (10) SEKBAN Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (21)Group 2 0 3 3 MUTTAWI'AH Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat, Jammer / Pistol, Knife. (10) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer / Pistol, Knife. (5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer / Pistol, Knife. (5)3 SWC | 150 Points Open with Army 5
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Feb 11, 2016 13:27
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