|
OwlFancier posted:Who the gently caress just puts on a loving suit, complete with tie clip, and sits with their feet on their desk kissing their whiskey glass and waving an unlit cigarette around? because he wants to look like the 80's version of a big man.
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 19:28 |
|
|
I get why, I just don't get how you reach that point in your life and not wonder how the gently caress you got there and where you went wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Worse, sometimes he lights one and lets it burn down and lets the ice in his whiskey water it down. Solving toxic masculinity with violence never works, but I'd appreciate the artistic value of seeing any man from my granddad's generation give him a slap for wasting good tobacco and liquor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Twerkteam Pizza posted:Men who tie their masculinity (which they learned from Fantasy Role Playing games where certain races come with certain bonuses) to their self-worth Guavanaut posted:Solving toxic masculinity with violence never works
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Worse, sometimes he lights one and lets it burn down and lets the ice in his whiskey water it down. Yet he fails so badly in his attempt to embody toxic masculinity that you'd be solving a completely different problem altogether. Toxic masculinity is light-years ahead of whatever this turd is. I bet he squeals whenever anyone tries to hit him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
It's extremely advanced trilby-wearing. The International College of Oncological Millinery has yet to find a cure for this terrible affliction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:Yet he fails so badly in his attempt to embody toxic masculinity that you'd be solving a completely different problem altogether. Toxic masculinity is light-years ahead of whatever this turd is. I bet he squeals whenever anyone tries to hit him. Nice avatar/post combo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:Yet he fails so badly in his attempt to embody toxic masculinity that you'd be solving a completely different problem altogether. Toxic masculinity is light-years ahead of whatever this turd is. I bet he squeals whenever anyone tries to hit him. Nice avatar/post combo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
DarklyDreaming posted:Human Biodiversity. Basically a fancy pseudosciency term for "No Racial Mixing" if we can learn anything from dogs, it's that mixed breeds are healthier and live longer
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I.e., almost all men ever Okay, how about "Men who tie their worth ONLY to their masculinity and not their other attributes. Combined with the inability to improve one's self." I already know you from the "PYF Dark Enlightenment" Thread, but I gotta tell you that you are annoying as hell.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
Cingulate seems like the type of guy who posts in the hell-thread regularly and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Race Realists posted:Cingulate seems like the type of guy who posts in the hell-thread regularly and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room You should read about his fascination with IQ and how it's souper importante that we understand the Biological Determinants of IQ by race. He's the kind of guy that would read The Bell Curve and take it at face value. Or anything by Charles Murray, top professor at "The American Enterprise Institute"
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 23:12
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I.e., almost all men ever Do you do this? Because I sure as hell don't, that's dumb as poo poo. And more than a little sad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 23:22
|
|
|
Like I said, it's an all act focused on you, the viewer. They don't have the sense of self to find their own value, so they try and get validation from outside, in a bunch of different ways. Part of that is getting people they don't like to hate them, part of that is tricking the gullible, etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Twerkteam Pizza posted:Okay, how about Some differences to what almost everyone else does is, for these people, it's 1. more obvious how hard their self worth is tied to their masculinity because they constantly talk about it, 2. they make conscious efforts to work on their masculinity instead of either being ignorant of it or treating the whole thing as a somewhat pathological and embarrassing condition, 3. they derive from certain biological facts (or I guess mostly cultural facts mistaken for biological ones) a sense of how the world ought to be. I know that's not a particularly elegant way of phrasing this, but I hope it's at least not wrong. Twerkteam Pizza posted:You should read about his fascination with IQ and how it's souper importante that we understand the Biological Determinants of IQ by race. Who What Now posted:Do you do this? Because I sure as hell don't, that's dumb as poo poo. And more than a little sad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 10:30
|
|
|
The best thing about Aurini's This is because most digital sensors have a spectral response curve far higher in the near infrared than the human eye or most film, especially for the red and blue pixels, and cheap digicams don't have a good filter to fully compensate for that, and the spectral output of a lit cigarette looks similar to a typical black body radiation curve with a lot of infrared. Of course, he'd know that if he spent more time studying math and science instead of sitting around talking about his feelings. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 13:18
|
|
|
I think you'll find that he was "tutored" in history, and graduated with a BA in just 5 years (in socialist Canada where the wretched welfare state paid for it all)!
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 15:01
|
|
|
Tying self-worth to "masculinity" is dumb and pathetic. Which part of that sentence is giving you the most trouble, I'll try and break it down further.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 15:07
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Tying self-worth to "masculinity" is dumb and pathetic Who What Now posted:Do you do this? Because I sure as hell don't, that's dumb as poo poo. And more than a little sad. Hm ... are you aware of the Milgram study? Do you think you would have been obedient? Guavanaut posted:The best thing about Aurini's
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 15:43
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Ah okay, what you do is, you're asking me if I am tying my self worth to my masculinity, and you're claiming you're not doing that? Correct, that is "what [ I] do". quote:Hm ... are you aware of the Milgram study? I am aware of it. Before I answer, where are you going with this?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
On a completely unrelated note, I'm surprised that I'm not able to find a PYF relentlessly smug contrarian thread.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:I am aware of it. Before I answer, where are you going with this? I have to admit, I'm kinda fascinated to see where he's going to go with it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:I have to admit, I'm kinda fascinated to see where he's going to go with it. I for one would love to believe that if Milgram/Hitler/the Patriarchy/... would have recruited me, I'd be the bold contrarian exception to not do what everyone else did. But statistics doesn't suddenly stop applying to you when it would be uncool. Realistically speaking, I probably would have pushed the button/joined the party, and realistically speaking, an enlightened observer from the future (e.g., Cthulu, chilling on the border of the pool, having finished his final lap) will look at me and think, "Jesus, that person! What a loving misogynist that was!", just like he will looking at something like 96% of men right now. And I assume, simply because that's how numbers work, that most guys ITT would have pushed the button/joined the party/be judged like that by Future Cthulu. (This is of course not at all meant as an excuse to be terrible, nor an acknowledgement of indifference.) I think the second you believe you are somehow the one golden exception to this "Patriarchy" thing them feminists are talking about, probably you've just become even more a part of the problem than you've already been before. cf. "Understanding the psychology of HBD etc"
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
Patriarchy is a description of a societal structure, one which assigns power to people based on assumptions about sex and gender, being subject to and incorporated into it does not require you to entirely embody every possible facet of it. It also doesn't mean you can't accurately and honestly disagree with parts of it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:20
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Tying self-worth to "masculinity" is dumb and pathetic. Is the unspoken implication here that it's no more dumb and pathetic than tying one's self-worth to femininity, or whiteness, or how observant a member of [your religion] - or how ideologically pure an adherent of [dogmatic ideology] - you are, or are you saying masculinity is an identity trait worthy of particular contempt?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Smudgie Buggler posted:Is the unspoken implication here that it's no more dumb and pathetic than tying one's self-worth to femininity, or whiteness, or how observant a member of [your religion] - or how ideologically pure an adherent of [dogmatic ideology] - you are, or are you saying masculinity is an identity trait worthy of particular contempt? Of all the things to use as a measure of your own value, "masculinity" is probably one of the stupider ones because it's remarkably poorly defined. Most ideologies at least are written down somewhere, but masculinity and what it means probably won't line up at all beyond superficial ideas like "be sexy" and "have muscles". Of course if anyone wants to start the church of sexy muscle having I wouldn't object because that's well defined and may at least have some health benefits.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I think the second you believe you are somehow the one golden exception to this "Patriarchy" thing them feminists are talking about, probably you've just become even more a part of the problem than you've already been before. This is a fair conclusion, I'd just say that tying your self-worth to masculinity is merely a single symptom of a more insidious problem. Heck, you can even do it without being a misogynist/patriarch (merely someone entrenched in gender norms), it just also tends to overlap. Men can (and do) not tie their self-worth to masculinity, but this doesn't make them any less patriarchal, that's based on other things. Smudgie Buggler posted:Is the unspoken implication here that it's no more dumb and pathetic than tying one's self-worth to femininity, or whiteness, or how observant a member of [your religion] - or how ideologically pure an adherent of [dogmatic ideology] - you are, or are you saying masculinity is an identity trait worthy of particular contempt? I've tended to find tying your self-worth to outside perceptions can lead to unhealthy behaviour, masculinity is just the one being discussed currently.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Of course if anyone wants to start the church of sexy muscle having I believe that's called JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
Smudgie Buggler posted:Is the unspoken implication here that it's no more dumb and pathetic than tying one's self-worth to femininity, or whiteness, or how observant a member of [your religion] - or how ideologically pure an adherent of [dogmatic ideology] - you are, or are you saying masculinity is an identity trait worthy of particular contempt? With tying it to whiteness, I'm extremely sure almost all male racists are also disproportionally sexists. "They take our jobs and rape our women!" It's not jobs like prostitution and school teaching they're thinking of here. Tesseraction posted:This is a fair conclusion, I'd just say that tying your self-worth to masculinity is merely a single symptom of a more insidious problem. Heck, you can even do it without being a misogynist/patriarch (merely someone entrenched in gender norms), it just also tends to overlap. Men can (and do) not tie their self-worth to masculinity, but this doesn't make them any less patriarchal, that's based on other things.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I for one would love to believe that if Milgram/Hitler/the Patriarchy/... would have recruited me, I'd be the bold contrarian exception to not do what everyone else did. But statistics doesn't suddenly stop applying to you when it would be uncool. Realistically speaking, I probably would have pushed the button/joined the party, and realistically speaking, an enlightened observer from the future (e.g., Cthulu, chilling on the border of the pool, having finished his final lap) will look at me and think, "Jesus, that person! What a loving misogynist that was!", just like he will looking at something like 96% of men right now. And I assume, simply because that's how numbers work, that most guys ITT would have pushed the button/joined the party/be judged like that by Future Cthulu. Ok, so if I had answered "yes I would have participated" you'd have responded "Aha! Proving that you do tie your self worth into your sense of masculinity!" and had I said the opposite you would have just gone "Aha! You actually would have done it anyway, statistically speaking, proving that you do tie your self worth into your sense of masculinity!". Which is exactly where I thought you were going and exactly why I didn't want to answer. Which makes me wonder why you even bothered to ask when the answer didn't matter. Seems pretty disingenuous to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Ok, so if I had answered "yes I would have participated" you'd have responded "Aha! Proving that you do tie your self worth into your sense of masculinity!" and had I said the opposite you would have just gone "Aha! You actually would have done it anyway, statistically speaking, proving that you do tie your self worth into your sense of masculinity!".
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
Somehow I don't believe you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
It's pretty dumb to ask a question where the only sensible answers* are "mu," "I don't know, and I can't assign a meaningful probability to either answer," and "gently caress off." * Assuming you haven't literally partaken in such an experiment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
And there's two examples of people extremely ill equipped for understanding the psychology of HBD/race realism/etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Of course if anyone wants to start the church of sexy muscle having I also think that the alt-right would not approve of what went on there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Of course if anyone wants to start the church of sexy muscle having I wouldn't object because that's well defined and may at least have some health benefits. Am I allowed to masturbate to the holy books?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
Jack of Hearts posted:It's pretty dumb to ask a question where the only sensible answers* are "mu," "I don't know, and I can't assign a meaningful probability to either answer," and "gently caress off." I'd offer to go in there and personally give the idiot the boots until he smartens up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
Just to be clear, I made this postTwerkteam Pizza posted:Men who tie their masculinity (which they learned from Fantasy Role Playing games where certain races come with certain bonuses) to their self-worth. This often leads to being an awful person. about Davis Aurini, or however the gently caress you spell it, about how Aurini and his followers generally tie their self-worth to this myth of liberating masculinity that has worked throughout history. A view commonly asserted by this Dork Enlightenment crowd (we need to get back to the good ole days of feudalism) and bolstered by their reactionary hatred of Feminists, Women's Rights, and Trans Women. Which prompted Cingulate to quote me and reply Cingulate posted:I.e., almost all men ever to which I said (and since I had multiple tabs open I thought I identified Cingulate and this argument in the Jrod DnD thread) Twerkteam Pizza posted:Okay, how about As an aside, Race Realists posted Race Realists posted:Cingulate seems like the type of guy who posts in the hell-thread regularly and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room Which I added to with the reply below (because Cingulate has this annoying contrarian habit) Twerkteam Pizza posted:You should read about his fascination with IQ and how it's souper importante that we understand the Biological Determinants of IQ by race. Which eventually leads to Cingulate asserting that THE MILGRAM STUDY (which showed the influence of social influence and authoritarian control) shows how people tie their masculinity to their self worth because ??????????????????
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Well it's wrong to think that you're outside society or history whatever, but merely the fact that you're able to conceive of masculinity of not something that should determine self worth, it's itself a major step. I mean it's also worth remembering that in it's own time, the Nazis never once managed to actually win a majority in the election, nationally. The SPD had to cave, had they not caved/the communists not been killed, there's no guarantee they would have ended up on top. Long story short, there's no need to be overly pessimistic when were talking about human behavior. Some cynicism it's one thing, fatalism is quite another. And I mean socially, a lot of progress had been made on gender roles, so even if you may have doubts as to whether someone is being honest when they say they don't base their self worth on masculinity, it's not inconceivable. Certainly it's a psychologically healthy place to be, but one that takes effort, so placing yourself there mentally would at least indicate a desire for that kind of self improvement, a precondition for actually getting there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 22:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 19:28 |
|
|
The implications of the Milgram experiment are frequently overstated and extended to very different circumstances than those it took place in, and the same goes for various replications of it. I would've expected someone so self-assured in their understanding of statistics, neuroscience, and psychology to know better than to use the Milgram experiment as "proof" that people are sheep. To say nothing of using it as some stupid "gotcha" when someone disagrees with you on cultural practices, ideals, and obedience.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 23:03
|
|
