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guts and bolts posted:I'm still not that high on Dengar pilot or the JumpMaster, but the generic interests me; still think "Gonk" is just bad; R5-P8 remains very "meh" to me, though Dengar crew is the fuckin' best. I think you've not played enough against the Satanmobile if you think most ships can easily avoid it's absolutely huge arc of fire. It's difficult to stay out of with someone like Soontir Fel, most ships have no hope of avoiding it without taking a couple turns of fire first. Low PS isn't a huge concern in this case. OTOH, it's not going to be meta warping either, you're sacrificing making the ship more dangerous to run the combo, and that does matter, even if the combo is potentially scary to a good number of ships. At 31 points though, its pretty cheap. Dengar is solid at worst. He's at least on par with Dash or other second tier ships. More practice is needed to say if he's good enough, and if he can deal with the power lists though.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:29
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Boba+AHM is certainly no guarantee but putting him on a ship is still a timer on any upgrade you want to get rid of like Palpatine. If your ship has a cannon slot, you can take a Mangler and be guaranteed to use him once shields are gone. Put him on a cheap Slaver, now the opponent has to consider how much effort to put into killing it instead of some aces or a swarm; Boba is definitely not a hard counter to things like the Palpmobile or any other upgrade centric build but he can absolutely affect the game one way or another. This is basically what I already said. People in this thread and elsewhere have taken on this "IS PALP EVEN PLAYABLE!??!?!" argument that is lunacy. Uh, yes. He's still playable. Boba is best against PWTs, regen aces, and Palpshuttles, and is otherwise a "win-more" button. If you tied up 40 points in a gimmick, your list is already functionally crippled: a) against any list that the gimmick isn't geared toward b) if the gimmick fails (your AHM misses, for example) I'm not saying Boba is garbage, or that he can't kill Palpatine or 3PO or a regen astromech. I said he was middling. Because he is. The Gate posted:I think you've not played enough against the Satanmobile if you think most ships can easily avoid it's absolutely huge arc of fire. It's difficult to stay out of with someone like Soontir Fel, most ships have no hope of avoiding it without taking a couple turns of fire first. Low PS isn't a huge concern in this case. My YV-666 experience is limited, that's for sure. I've only played against it like four times, total, ever, and it was always generic with some combination of Bossk and Gunner or Tactician or whatever. I had some interest in Latts but I don't own the ship, so there's that. Unless there's a -2 cost refit somewhere on the YV-666, it's 33 points at the minimum to run the combo (29ship + 1crew + 3ordnance), and that's before taking anything else on the ship or in your list. It may not be prohibitively expensive, but it sure as hell looks like it. Since I've never flown against a Satanmobile with missiles, can it fire the missiles 180? I didn't think it could, and I'm not sure it changes my opinion much, but it could be neat, I guess. I know that one pilot lets you fire cannons in the 180 arc, which seems sexy but I'm not sure. Part of my problem with Dengar is the faction he's in. I don't think Dengar is, himself, bad; I don't like him as much as I like Han Solo, but some of that is subjectivity and some of that is just a preference for the Falcon, so I'm willing even to cede all of that. What I'm concerned about is what you fly with him, because Scum is very limited in that regard. You can't fill out with TLTs because I think you could only fit 2 (maybe?) and TLTs like to be at that critical-mass point of 3+ or having neat tricks to make up the difference (like a stressbot, for example, and Scum has no access to one). Guri seems suspect - I've been trying to make a version of that Guri work for a while, and I've had not a ton of success. A single Brobot, maybe, if you can get Dengar below 50? Which I'm not sure you can? I think that to see significant table time, Dengar would have had to be in a tier of "very good" ships, because he precludes the use of bolted-on Diet Thug Lyfe/Diet Brobots, because Scum list building is much less modular than Empire or Rebellion - I don't even know what your hypothetical magic number is, in the same way that Empire's seems to be 26, for example. "Dengar is decent but won't carry an entire list" is me calling my shot, and I'd actually be happy to be proven wrong, because much of Wave 8 has disappointed me w/r/t the ships themselves. The good news, to me, is that Dengar potentially opens up Scum listbuilding in the future. If we were to get, say, a K-fighter fix, or Lone Wolf Guri with the Stealth Device and Sensor Jammer actually is the cool ship I want it to be, or we get a Mando fighter from Rebels that makes a good companion at like 35 points, or whatever - Dengar to me, like Mindlink, seems to be laying groundwork for further improvements to the faction, but in himself/itself doesn't suddenly see table time right away.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:00
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If you can get any ship behind the hellbus and nobody chases you out of it, its just a matter of time before you squish it.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:01
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X-Wing lesson for today: If you're flying SuperDash, your only purpose in life is NOT to bump other people 
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Feb 11, 2016 20:06
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I see Boba Fett as a dirty trick. Like someone kicking sand into someone's eyes in a kung-fu fight. Just one more thing to push a fight in your favor. In a faction full of dirty tricks, this is just another thing to make your opponent pay attention. No more. No less.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:08
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ConfusedUs posted:I see Boba Fett as a dirty trick. Like someone kicking sand into someone's eyes in a kung-fu fight. Just one more thing to push a fight in your favor. I like Boba as a guaranteed coup de grâce against ships who are otherwise a problem even after chewing up shields. My knee-jerk pseudo-gimmick was to put him on a YV-666 flown by Moralo with Boba, Greedo, and Dengar crew, and a Heavy Laser Cannon; you get the 180 arc, Greedo is 1 point to get Boba through for sure, Dengar is our substitute EPT since Moralo doesn't have one. It's 46 points, so we can still get a Brobot in there, but I don't know if it's a good list. Boba is cool to just chuck in a list and see what happens. You could do worse than a "win-more" button, for sure, and he isn't Gonk. :/
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Feb 11, 2016 20:14
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Boba Fett is only 1 point. Even if he is situational or requires a combo that's still better than most crew options in the game. Leia, Han and Lando are basically trash and cost a lot more. Luke costs a TON.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:45
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Boba Fett plus Greedo. 2 point combo, absolutely guaranteed to trigger, works in the 180 arc, no need for gimmicky ordnance or target locks. All you have to do is not lose your 12 HP ship before it gets to shoot hull. It's pretty much going to be the default Boba package I'm convinced.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:51
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I'd actually probably pile K4 on that ship as well. That totals 34 points, which is cheap as hell for what you get, and K4 is amazing. TL plus focus with 3 dice means you should be able to hit anything that's not a tokened up ace, and all you need is 1 damage to slip through. Also gives the ship a solid role once Boba does his job. I mean, in the perfect scenario against the Palpmobile, you're looking at being able to kill Palpatine the first time it shoots at him, assuming that you get a second ship in your list to fire at the shuttle first. Which should be pretty manageable. Helps solve the whole issue of trying to drag down the shuttle while avoiding the two aces, since you only spend 1 turn shooting the shuttle, rather than 2+.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:59
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alg posted:Boba Fett is only 1 point. Even if he is situational or requires a combo that's still better than most crew options in the game. Leia, Han and Lando are basically trash and cost a lot more. Luke costs a TON. Boba is in the scum crew slot. There are a ton of really good scum crew upgrades.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:12
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Panzeh posted:Boba is in the scum crew slot. There are a ton of really good scum crew upgrades. Yup. But being 1 point makes him a possible choice, especially down the road when other options open up.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:13
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I see people talking about Fett only on the YV-666, Firespray, or Jumpmaster, while completely ignoring the Hwk and G-1A. He doesn't have to go a large ship, and may even be better when he's not on one. I consider him 'playable' without having to min/max my list. Also, what the gently caress is 'AHM' other than rearranging my initials? enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 21:31
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alg posted:Boba Fett is only 1 point. Even if he is situational or requires a combo that's still better than most crew options in the game. Leia, Han and Lando are basically trash and cost a lot more. Luke costs a TON. Rebel crew don't compete with Boba Fett, and Scum crew choices are widely considered to be very good. If we're comparing all the way across all factions, you have to factor in Empire crew, which also has a lot of solid choices. I don't think Boba is bad, but being better than Han crew is a really low bar to set. His 1-point cost is great, don't get me wrong, but you're either slotting him into a Firespray, where you basically need to run the AHM gimmick, or... The Gate posted:Boba Fett plus Greedo. 2 point combo, absolutely guaranteed to trigger, works in the 180 arc, no need for gimmicky ordnance or target locks. ...this, which I posted a variation of up above, albeit I went with a premium version. I agree with your point about being "future playable," though - that's how I feel about most of the Scum stuff in Wave 8. By itself it isn't great (except Dengar crew!) but it sets up a little more flexibility down the road. The Gate posted:I'd actually probably pile K4 on that ship as well. That totals 34 points, which is cheap as hell for what you get, and K4 is amazing. TL plus focus with 3 dice means you should be able to hit anything that's not a tokened up ace, and all you need is 1 damage to slip through. Also gives the ship a solid role once Boba does his job. quote:Moralo Eval (46) It's 12 more points over the generic version, but you can potentially punch through a Palpshuttle in one turn this way, or instantly take out a regen droid, stresshog, or other irritation; and after the fact you're still a 180-degree HLC threat, even after Boba completes his jihad. Could be playable.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:31
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enigmahfc posted:I see people talking about Fett only on the YV-666, Firespray, or Jumpmaster, while completely ignoring the Hwk and G-1A. He doesn't have to go a large ship, and may even be better when he's not on one. Yeah but you have to crit for him to work and the good turrets dont crit. Aside from that those ships have tougher competition in the slot.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:32
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So roll with Boba Fett and Calculation on some G-1A pilot. Grand total of two points. Or bring him on something with a Torp, and stick Proton Torps and Guidance Chips on there. That's a drat near guaranteed crit on something especially if you wait a turn or have something else shooting.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:35
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enigmahfc posted:I see people talking about Fett only on the YV-666, Firespray, or Jumpmaster, while completely ignoring the Hwk and G-1A. He doesn't have to go a large ship, and may even be better when he's not on one. Fett in the JumpMaster sounds dumb on its face. Do you run Proton Torpedoes? I'm not sure I get it. Why Fett over other crew options? HWK-290 as well - good turrets cannot crit, which means Boba never goes off. The G-1A has no way to punch crits through beside its 3-dice primary gun, and again, Boba at that point just becomes a "win-more" button. There is basically no scenario where Boba Fett is better on a small ship than on a large one, considering he works best with a second crew slot or with a missile. EDIT: ^^^^^ Strobe posted:So roll with Boba Fett and Calculation on some G-1A pilot. Grand total of two points. So torpedo + chips + crew means Firespray or JumpMaster, who have much more attractive crew options. Boba is at his peak when you can either guarantee that a crit will occur for cheap (two crew and one of 'em is Greedo) or you can gimmick a face-up damage card through shields (AHM). Because if you're shooting at a low-shield/shieldless shuttle or whatever with loving Proton Torpedoes, that ship is basically destroyed anyway. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 21:37
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Strobe posted:So roll with Boba Fett and Calculation on some G-1A pilot. Grand total of two points. There are two scum ships with crew and torp slots and they both want a crew better than boba.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:39
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Panzeh posted:There are two scum ships with crew and torp slots and they both want a crew better than boba. Then make it a missile or something, Guidance Chips aren't picky. Jeez, talking about new cards is a lot more fun when we don't have the anti-fun brigade talking about how cards are sub-optimal. The entire last page is about how Boba is really mediocre.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:41
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Scum needs an IG88 with a crew slot so the mango canon can be used again - with Fett. That's all there is to it.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:43
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enigmahfc posted:Also, what the gently caress is 'AHM' other than rearranging my initials? Advanced homing missiles, which if it hits deals a crit through shields, so it's a very reliable way to trigger fett.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:43
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guts and bolts posted:There is basically no scenario where Boba Fett is better on a small ship than on a large one, considering he works best with a second crew slot or with a missile. Except for when he is, which is pretty much every upgrade in the game. I mean, do people really have that hard a time getting crits through? Also, what is dumb about putting him on a Jumpmaster? I know some consider there to be "better choices" (which, again, applies to almost literally every upgrade card in the game when you take people's play styles into account), but he's 1 loving point. I have gone entire matches without Autothrusters kicking in and that card is TWICE as expensive as Fett. ranbo das posted:Advanced homing missiles, which if it hits deals a crit through shields, so it's a very reliable way to trigger fett. Ah, okay, for some reason I was overthinking it and thought it was some sort of gimmick build, not shorthand for a card. Strobe posted:Jeez, talking about new cards is a lot more fun when we don't have the anti-fun brigade talking about how cards are sub-optimal. The entire last page is about how Boba is really mediocre. This guy gets it. Thought I was on the FF boards or something. enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 21:44
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guts and bolts posted:Rebel crew don't compete with Boba Fett, and Scum crew choices are widely considered to be very good. If we're comparing all the way across all factions, you have to factor in Empire crew, which also has a lot of solid choices. I don't think Boba is bad, but being better than Han crew is a really low bar to set. His 1-point cost is great, don't get me wrong, but you're either slotting him into a Firespray, where you basically need to run the AHM gimmick, or... There are other options and there will be more ships in the future with crew options. It's possible to see a situation now or in the future where someone might not have the three points for K4. 1 point is a great option to have for crew slot.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:46
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It's too bad you can't stick Bobby in a B-wing/E2
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Feb 11, 2016 21:46
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enigmahfc posted:Except for when he is, which is pretty much every upgrade in the game. Except he isn't. In order for Boba Fett to go off on a vanilla primary weapon shot: 1) the ship has to be low shield or shield-less 2) you must roll a crit 3) the crit must go uncancelled Right? We can agree on that point? Okay. What ship is not already going to be basically destroyed if you roll a naked vanilla primary weapon at it and critically hit? Because that's all the small ship has to offer, because good turrets literally cannot crit, and therefore Boba Fett literally never goes off. Comparing him to Autothrusters is just lol. What is dumb about putting him on the JumpMaster is that you now can't use K4, or Dengar crew, or any other number of better crew choices, because even if he's lol 1 cost he still eats your crew slot. Right? Strobe posted:Then make it a missile or something, Guidance Chips aren't picky. Calling an average card average is anti-fun? Dude, the first Boba reactions were literally "EMPEROR PALPATINE UNPLAYABLE, PALPSHUTTLE ON SUICIDE WATCH." I'm sorry these cards aren't incredible for competitive play? I don't know what you expect to happen here.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:48
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I was expecting a lot of fun ideas for how to rub Boba that aren't necessarily competitive or optimal. Instead we got six posts of "HOLY poo poo" and then 30 of "dude it's bad for XYZ reasons". Lame.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:50
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Guts and Bolts, what has you so mad? Like, all the time?guts and bolts posted:the first Boba reactions were literally "EMPEROR PALPATINE UNPLAYABLE, PALPSHUTTLE ON SUICIDE WATCH." I'm sorry these cards aren't incredible for competitive play? I don't know what you expect to happen here. No one on here has been saying that, though. Maybe they have on the FF boards, because that place is sort of horrible, and that's where that kind of discussion belongs, but that's not here. Here, we are friends who play X-Wing and make bad jokes. enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 21:50
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alg posted:There are other options and there will be more ships in the future with crew options. I don't disagree with anything in this post. I've said it myself a few times. This update does some decent groundwork-laying for future Scum updates. By itself, I'm not sold on its immediate efficacy. Boba could be super-dope in the future! I hope he is! Right now he isn't. Like, Attanni Mindlink - tons of potential! Could be awesome! Right now kinda isn't. enigmahfc posted:Guts and Bolts, what has you so mad? Like, all the time? Oh man, are you literally "u mad"-ing me because I think Boba Fett is mediocre? Not that it even needs to be said, but I don't think anyone is angry except people apparently annoyed with a new card being talked about as anything less than stellar. Like... I don't know man. Strobe posted:I was expecting a lot of fun ideas for how to rub Boba that aren't necessarily competitive or optimal. This is what I'm having trouble grasping. People did already fire out ideas on how to run Boba effectively. Nobody - literally nobody - is calling him straight-up bad. It was "BOBA IS INCREDIBLE" followed by "relax, chill, he's kinda not" and now people upset that people don't think he's incredible? Most of the tone of this conversation sprang up from the insane speculation that Boba is a threat at store champs to ward off the entire concept of a Palpshuttle, so yeah, that's... guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 21:50
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1 point options are always dope. 
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Feb 11, 2016 21:52
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guts and bolts posted:Oh man, are you literally "u mad"-ing me because I think Boba Fett is mediocre? No, I was just asking, because you tend to come off as sort of aggressive in a lot of your posts. For the record, I think Fett is just an okay card with a great ability as well. When he goes off it will be awesome, when he doesn't, whatever, 1 point. I really want to see the situation where Fett causes a player to discard Fett. enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 21:57
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alg posted:1 point options are always dope. I agree. There are very few cards outside of some really weird EPTs that are 1 point and also super-duper bad. Plus, again, this means Scum can do some potentially cool poo poo further on. enigmahfc posted:No, I was just asking, because you tend to come off as sort of aggressive in a lot of your posts. I'm just trying to be as objective as possible. Like, scroll back three pages or so and I'm already thinking of janky ways to run Boba and do fun poo poo. It's when this happens: thespaceinvader posted:Boba Crew what the gently caress!!! 1 point after attacking if a faceup card was dealt, discard to foorce the defender to discard one of his upgrades holy poo poo. Scum only though, no imp version yet. gently caress you superdash. Some Numbers posted:Boba Fett crew seems insane thespaceinvader posted:Boba crew is the absolute loving business, gently caress you Emperor Palpatine. Weirdneal posted:Does the threat of facing a ship with Boba Fett crew simply stop the inclusion of Palpatine at this point? Is it even worth the risk to waste 29 pts for OGP+Palp if it's neutralized by a 3pt upgrade card? ... that I decided to pump the brakes a little on the crazy hype train.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:00
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guts and bolts posted:... that I decided to pump the brakes a little on the crazy hype train. Better idea: next time don't. It works itself out without buzzkill outside intervention, and it's not like people being excited is going to make you run it.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:01
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Hype train posts are fun and good, imo. If nothing else it means I can see it in the next couple tournaments and get a feel for what the card is like. Always better to have that happen before regionals season.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:04
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Strobe posted:Better idea: next time don't. It works itself out without buzzkill outside intervention, and it's not like people being excited is going to make you run it. I don't know if I'm going to govern my posting based on your opinion. If you don't like objective discussion of upgrades and stuff, that's cool! Like, go crazy with the hype! Me, personally, I don't think it's super-productive to talk about how awesome a thing is when it isn't, especially when people are talking about store championships. If you're just playing to have fun, why are you even reading internet analysis of your fun tabletop game? And if you're playing to win, why are you bothered by someone being like "actually, it isn't as awesome as you think"? Just weird to me is all.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:04
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Whatever, be the self-appointed fun police.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:07
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As a whole wave eight looks really fun and good and I'm excited for each individual ship. I just want the stupid things to come out at this point. They must be coming by rowboat or something.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:09
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X-Wing Miniatures Thread: Fettish Ball
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Feb 11, 2016 22:11
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Gumdrop Larry posted:As a whole wave eight looks really fun and good and I'm excited for each individual ship. I just want the stupid things to come out at this point. They must be coming by rowboat or something. Fun I can agree with. I have Ghost builds cooking that I really wanna fuckin' try already, FFG, and I was bummed when they didn't show up February 5th or whatever. Plus some of the upgrades in Wave 8 vary between "pretty good" and "pretty great," like Dengar crew, Guidance Chips looking attractive, Kanan Jarrus on Han with PTL looking sexy. Do we even know when they were delayed until?
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Feb 11, 2016 22:11
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The meta still hasn't settled down yet so I would actually prefer wave 8 to take as long as it needs before it might shake things up again. I like having only ~2-3 waves per year so things are allowed to get stale for a bit instead of constantly pumping out new releases like other games do. *says the guy who is looking to score 3 more challenge coins/byes from store champs with a wave 4 list 
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Feb 11, 2016 22:14
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Wave 8 is never coming out
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Feb 11, 2016 22:18
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My FLGS is saying 2/29 for Wave 8 stuff. I'm patiently waiting for Imperial Veterans.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:18
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