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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
I managed to beat Ballos with a keyboard and to this day I have no idea how.

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Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻
The method for getting the upgraded jet pack in Cave Story, and therefore the best ending, makes no sense.

You enter a room with a wide pit you seemingly can't jump across, and you see a character fall in. You jump down, and with his dying breath he gives you a jet pack that you use to get back up. What you're supposed to do is make the precisely timed running jump to get over the pit, and later the character turns out be be alive and he gives you an upgraded jet pack.

How did you following the character down make him die?

AlphaKretin
Dec 25, 2014

A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!

If you don't take the Booster from him he can use it to escape! :pseudo:

The real answer is the second one is a Video Game Secret Thing and therefore getting it needs to involve doing something unintuitive, like ignoring a sympathetic character falling from a great height

Trick Question
Apr 9, 2007


Dr Christmas posted:

The method for getting the upgraded jet pack in Cave Story, and therefore the best ending, makes no sense.

You enter a room with a wide pit you seemingly can't jump across, and you see a character fall in. You jump down, and with his dying breath he gives you a jet pack that you use to get back up. What you're supposed to do is make the precisely timed running jump to get over the pit, and later the character turns out be be alive and he gives you an upgraded jet pack.

How did you following the character down make him die?

Seeing that graceful, perfectly-timed hop across the pit gave booster enough motivation to hold on to his life.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
When you meet him, he gives up on life and dies.
If you leave him, he decides to live through sheer force of will, then actually recovers by the time you show up.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
It's well known that if someone falls off a cliff and you don't see the body, there's a 50/50 chance they're fine. By falling down beside him and thus witnessing it, you collapse the wave function and he dies.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

Dr Christmas posted:

The method for getting the upgraded jet pack in Cave Story, and therefore the best ending, makes no sense.

You enter a room with a wide pit you seemingly can't jump across, and you see a character fall in. You jump down, and with his dying breath he gives you a jet pack that you use to get back up. What you're supposed to do is make the precisely timed running jump to get over the pit, and later the character turns out be be alive and he gives you an upgraded jet pack.

How did you following the character down make him die?

The whole not trying to save Booster thing is dumb, but the machinegun weapon actually lets you hover jump when it's at full power, making it trivial to cross the gap. The whole pixel perfect jump thing is just if you want to keep the Polar Star.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Dr Christmas posted:

The method for getting the upgraded jet pack in Cave Story, and therefore the best ending, makes no sense.

You enter a room with a wide pit you seemingly can't jump across, and you see a character fall in. You jump down, and with his dying breath he gives you a jet pack that you use to get back up. What you're supposed to do is make the precisely timed running jump to get over the pit, and later the character turns out be be alive and he gives you an upgraded jet pack.

How did you following the character down make him die?

The joke is that the booster is literally his life's work. Like, his actual name is Professor Booster. So if he manages to pass it on to someone else, even in an unfinished state, he can die in peace. If not, he just has to keep on living, god dammit. And if that means he makes it out of the Labyrinth, and is totally fine, and upgrades the booster on the way out, so fuckin' be it.

Dude's also tough as nails- remember that he walked away from that bike crash earlier in the game without noticing.

Sic Semper Goon
Mar 1, 2015

Eu tu?

:zaurg:

Switchblade Switcharoo

YggiDee posted:

It's well known that if someone falls off a cliff and you don't see the body, there's a 50/50 chance they're fine. By falling down beside him and thus witnessing it, you collapse the wave function and he dies.

Like Dyne in FFVII.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
As fun as Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam is, it really doesn't do enough with the Paper Mario side of things. It's pretty clear that the scriptwriters and artists knew and appreciated the series, but the overall story really could've used aome more direct nods.

The bosses make it clear that the Paper Mario side of things was decided on after the overall game was planned, because there are barely any paper bosses. There's Paper Petey, and the duos ofthe two Pokeys, Kameks, Bowser Jrs and Bowsers, but there's no paper boss that stands by itself. It would've been great to see just one, since the game gives ample opportunity. Doopliss or Atomic Boo in the haunted woods, Crystal King or something on the icy mountain. I just kept holding out for them to really have fun with a Paper Mario enemy, but they never did.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Cleretic posted:

As fun as Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam is, it really doesn't do enough with the Paper Mario side of things. It's pretty clear that the scriptwriters and artists knew and appreciated the series, but the overall story really could've used aome more direct nods.

The bosses make it clear that the Paper Mario side of things was decided on after the overall game was planned, because there are barely any paper bosses. There's Paper Petey, and the duos ofthe two Pokeys, Kameks, Bowser Jrs and Bowsers, but there's no paper boss that stands by itself. It would've been great to see just one, since the game gives ample opportunity. Doopliss or Atomic Boo in the haunted woods, Crystal King or something on the icy mountain. I just kept holding out for them to really have fun with a Paper Mario enemy, but they never did.

I don't have the game myself but I watched about an hour of the gameplay and it seems really obnoxious with the toad collection minigames too.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Cleretic posted:

As fun as Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam is, it really doesn't do enough with the Paper Mario side of things. It's pretty clear that the scriptwriters and artists knew and appreciated the series, but the overall story really could've used aome more direct nods.

The bosses make it clear that the Paper Mario side of things was decided on after the overall game was planned, because there are barely any paper bosses. There's Paper Petey, and the duos ofthe two Pokeys, Kameks, Bowser Jrs and Bowsers, but there's no paper boss that stands by itself. It would've been great to see just one, since the game gives ample opportunity. Doopliss or Atomic Boo in the haunted woods, Crystal King or something on the icy mountain. I just kept holding out for them to really have fun with a Paper Mario enemy, but they never did.

Maybe they were trying to avoid ending up like Dream Team which has way too much of the dream poo poo.

cram me sideways
Apr 26, 2015


I can't loving finish Landstalker. I just can't. The last dungeon is loving killing me. The FAQs online aren't descriptive enough to help, and for some reason Victor Entertainment has done a copyright claim on any videos showing the final dungeon. I don't know what the gently caress that's all about. But King Nole's Palace is too much for me. The dungeon before that one was godawful, too. Just completely un loving fun.

And it's too bad because I think it's a great game up until you finish the Water Temple. Then the game just becomes nasty with pitfalls that can put you back five minutes or doors that lock behind you with no way of opening. Enemies become these assholes that take 20 hits to kill and they slap 10 HP off of you and they've got a long reach.

I rented this game over and over again as a kid and I figured maybe now I've got the patience and time to see it to the end. Nope. loving done. Deleted it off my Wii. Onto something else (that'll end up pissing me off too).

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

RareAcumen posted:

I don't have the game myself but I watched about an hour of the gameplay and it seems really obnoxious with the toad collection minigames too.

Eh, the Toad collections are fine. They get really frustrating near the end, but by that point they're optional.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received

Oxxidation posted:

I managed to beat Ballos with a keyboard and to this day I have no idea how.

I tried to play Cave Story on the 3DS and it was so awkward because it wasn't a keyboard.

I don't think I could beat Ballos if I can't mash the Z key. :ohdear:

eating only apples
Dec 12, 2009

Shall we dance?
The second boss in Altered Beast, the guy with all the eyes, was impossible for me and my little brother to beat when we were kids. We tried so many different ways, single player and co-op, to take that fucker down. No luck. No matter how much we damaged him he just never seemed to die and eventually attrition would take us out.

Eventually we used a level skip to play the rest of the game.

I haven't played it in 20 years but I bet that guy is still a bastard.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


My parents came around for dinner yesterday and I was playing Mortal Kombat while I waited for them to arrive. Just as they did, a ridiculously long, unskippable cut scene started playing. And then when I went back to the game today I had to watch the same cut scene again. If the cut scenes were all really short it would still be annoying but, with as long as some of them are, it's totally inexplicable that they didn't consider that players might ever want to skip them.

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

Tiggum posted:

Mortal Kombat

Tiggum posted:

unskippable cut scenes

:confused:

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

MK9 (and X, I'm assuming) has a story mode that's got cutscenes between each fight. It's actually pretty well done, but yeah, not skippable. And, in the PC version, noticeably lower resolution.

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62IW2zl3m8U
I never played a mortal kombat after 2 but this looks pretty unskippable. I mean I would be too baffled to press the skip button.

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

Ugly In The Morning posted:

MK9 (and X, I'm assuming) has a story mode that's got cutscenes between each fight. It's actually pretty well done, but yeah, not skippable. And, in the PC version, noticeably lower resolution.

That wasn't a "is this Mortal Kombat we're talking about," that was a "who the gently caress put long unskippable cutscenes in a Mortal Kombat game and why do they still have their job?" It's such a bizarre decision. (Unrelated but hilarious: apparently it's pronounced as the letter, not the Roman numeral??????)

Maximum_C
Nov 13, 2005
Mountain Goon Attorney

The Moon Monster posted:

This is so nostalgic. I miss the old indie games scene.

I made a game kinda like Cave Story. It's kinda like Guardian Legend meets Metroid meets Megaman... eh, you'll see. Anyway, it's done, but I'm still bug testing a bit.

http://www.purezc.net/index.php?page=projects&id=224

I'm told there is a burp with the full directory download at the moment, but I'll fix that tomorrow.

You can also watch a let's play, if that's more your style.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...fLE5ju-Be3YRUuQ

Brain In A Jar
Apr 21, 2008

It annoys me a little when games painstakingly introduce you to a gameplay element and then it never shows up again.

For example, in Metro 2033, you spend a whole level being introduced to ghosts and anomalies, and then you leave thinking "okay cool, I'm excited to see how these will play out on the battlefield, making things more exciting" and then they just never show up again, for the entire rest of the game.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Brain In A Jar posted:

It annoys me a little when games painstakingly introduce you to a gameplay element and then it never shows up again.

For example, in Metro 2033, you spend a whole level being introduced to ghosts and anomalies, and then you leave thinking "okay cool, I'm excited to see how these will play out on the battlefield, making things more exciting" and then they just never show up again, for the entire rest of the game.

Mechanics introduced to great effort only to never appear again in the entire game, you say?






I was going to include Chrono Trigger doing the same, but it actually does bother to reuse the idea.

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


That's like the classic Square example of, "Our system is too basic to do other interesting poo poo right now." Not quite the same since Metro introduces something that would work well being inserted into the rest of the game. The FF examples are all literally just wait. Attack. Wait. Attack again. And would be crap to reuse.

Also, FF4 did totally reuse that mechanic a few times. I'm thinking of the fire fiend guy. And man, it was boring every time it did show up.

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010


We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.

The serpent in Overlord is a great example of the developers wanting you to use certain game mechanics to defeat a boss, but the mechanics being wonky so you just end up brute forcing it.

If you haven't played Overlord it's a game where you have your minions (think imps/Gremlins) do most of the fighting for you. You don't have complete control over them, you essentially sweep a group of them towards enemies or objectives and then recall them when they are done or in danger. There are different kind of minions and in this example there are just the browns (regular, fighting kind) and the blues (can walk through water and resurrect other minions). Right after having earned the ability to use the blue minions you come across the serpent, a boss fight. The way the developers want you to fight this water creature is by positioning your brown minions near an edge and have the serpent chew down on one of them while the other browns jump on him and start smashing it. The serpent will eventually shake the minions off, so you have your blue minions positioned near the water so they jump in and resurrect them, after which you repeat this cycle until the serpent is done for. What is for more likely to happen is that the serpent will chew down on the blue minions at one point, killing most of them instantly since they are far weaker than the browns. And in the end you just don't bother with the blues altogether and just keep tossing browns at him, because you can probably miss about 40 of them at this point.

What makes it even worse is that the serpent returns later on.


This time you don't have to fight him. You merely need a dozen of your minions to spin the wheel right next to him to open a door. The mechanic they want you to use here is (1) have one of your minions pick up one of the eggs in the bird nest on the right, (2) lead this minion close to the serpent while some of the birds will chase after, (3) drop the egg near the serpent, (4) the serpent will chomp down on one of the birds, (5) quickly send your minions to spin the wheel, (6) retreat when the serpent is done chewing, and (7) repeat the sequence until the door is open.
What is far more likely to happen is that (A) the birds will not chase the egg unless you have the minion carrying it waggle back and forth, (B) the serpent will chomp down on the minion instead giving you no time to spin the wheel, (C) the minions that you send to spin the wheel will get stuck getting there when you need at least 12 of them to get the wheel moving. Thus (D) you brute force it again.

It's not as bad as the first encounter, since you didn't have to fight the serpent, right? Well, right after walking through the door you just opened you have the ability to do a re-match and actually fight him. See those arrows pointing towards the bags of gold in the screenshot? You can earn some sweet loot this time...

Basically, the developers are a bunch of assholes.

Mierenneuker has a new favorite as of 14:35 on Feb 14, 2016

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
I can handle just about anything EDF 4.1 throws at me on Hard but i really get pissed off with the endless swarms of drones that dogpile me with their lovely little weedy lasers and kill me. It's more annoying in the early game because i dont have many decent weapons yet; I'm just doing missions that have those drones on Normal for now and coming back when I've got more armour and better equipment. It also annoys me how the game doesn't seem to automatically add new armour to your total now, you have to go into the armour settings and set it to Maximum. I don't know why they have the option to cudtomise your armour level; are people playing on Inferno really dissatisfied with the level of challenge?

Also I've played almost exclusively as a Wingdiver ever since the PS2 days, except now there are three other classes I'm ignoring. I've had quick goes at trying them but they just run around on foot, and given the size of the battlefields I genuinely don't know what you're meant to do when you can't zoom around on a jetpack at 100 miles an hour.

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!
Europa Universalis IV is a fun, complex grand strategy game set to span the entire world during the period of 1450ish - 1821. It's pretty drat cool, you have dozens of things to keep your mind occupied, from the more obvious military alliances to dynasty building (of other countries) to managing your colonial empire and inflation to deciding whether to give that freshy conquered province to the clergy or to the noble estates.

As a consequence, you get a lot of messages throughout the game. Many of them are "This happened somewhere!" messages that don't really concern you, so I disabled them. Others are "You need to make a decision" or "This happened and will probably need your attention", so I set these to give me a pop-up and PAUSE THE GAME automatically. That's all good and well.

Every once in a while your military ally will probably call you into a war. However, for some reason, the message for a call to arms is not customizable. Or at least not to the degree that I can set it to pause the game automatically. If you don't respond within a certain amount of time you automatically decline their call. This is a little bit of a problem. Refusing a call-to-arms from an ally severely damages relations with that ally and lowers your 'trust' level with ALL countries by a non-trivial amount. I often play this game by putting the speed slider to max during peace and go around doing small errands around the room; cleaning the tables, feeding the fish etc. I can do this because whenever anything of substance happens the game auto-pauses. EXCEPT for call-to-arms, which are arguably the worst to ignore.

I have no idea why they decided on this. Paradox is usually very good with fixing problems and releasing big-content patches, so I have no idea why they haven't changed this. I suspect it is for some reason hardcoded into the engine in what is probably the game's largest design flaw.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Brain In A Jar posted:

It annoys me a little when games painstakingly introduce you to a gameplay element and then it never shows up again.

For example, in Metro 2033, you spend a whole level being introduced to ghosts and anomalies, and then you leave thinking "okay cool, I'm excited to see how these will play out on the battlefield, making things more exciting" and then they just never show up again, for the entire rest of the game.

They put that stuff in there because it is part of the setting and if they left it out they would have gotten criticism from fans of the book series.

Morglon
Jan 13, 2010

Safe and sound, detached from reality.
Just like your posting.

Mierenneuker posted:

The serpent in Overlord is a great example of the developers wanting you to use certain game mechanics to defeat a boss, but the mechanics being wonky so you just end up brute forcing it.

If you haven't played Overlord it's a game where you have your minions (think imps/Gremlins) do most of the fighting for you. You don't have complete control over them, you essentially sweep a group of them towards enemies or objectives and then recall them when they are done or in danger. There are different kind of minions and in this example there are just the browns (regular, fighting kind) and the blues (can walk through water and resurrect other minions). Right after having earned the ability to use the blue minions you come across the serpent, a boss fight. The way the developers want you to fight this water creature is by positioning your brown minions near an edge and have the serpent chew down on one of them while the other browns jump on him and start smashing it. The serpent will eventually shake the minions off, so you have your blue minions positioned near the water so they jump in and resurrect them, after which you repeat this cycle until the serpent is done for. What is for more likely to happen is that the serpent will chew down on the blue minions at one point, killing most of them instantly since they are far weaker than the browns. And in the end you just don't bother with the blues altogether and just keep tossing browns at him, because you can probably miss about 40 of them at this point.

What makes it even worse is that the serpent returns later on.


This time you don't have to fight him. You merely need a dozen of your minions to spin the wheel right next to him to open a door. The mechanic they want you to use here is (1) have one of your minions pick up one of the eggs in the bird nest on the right, (2) lead this minion close to the serpent while some of the birds will chase after, (3) drop the egg near the serpent, (4) the serpent will chomp down on one of the birds, (5) quickly send your minions to spin the wheel, (6) retreat when the serpent is done chewing, and (7) repeat the sequence until the door is open.
What is far more likely to happen is that (A) the birds will not chase the egg unless you have the minion carrying it waggle back and forth, (B) the serpent will chomp down on the minion instead giving you no time to spin the wheel, (C) the minions that you send to spin the wheel will get stuck getting there when you need at least 12 of them to get the wheel moving. Thus (D) you brute force it again.

It's not as bad as the first encounter, since you didn't have to fight the serpent, right? Well, right after walking through the door you just opened you have the ability to do a re-match and actually fight him. See those arrows pointing towards the bags of gold in the screenshot? You can earn some sweet loot this time...

Basically, the developers are a bunch of assholes.

I didn't mind the serpents all that much, what I hated were the lovely sand worms in the lovely desert you can only kill by feeding it bombs and it'll likely eat most of your guys or one of the bomb beetles runs into your guys and kills most of them. I played both games a bunch of times but I've only ever finished the second one, I've always quit the first one in that lovely desert. A lot of the hard to do with minions poo poo you can just do on your own too just by using your magic or hitting poo poo in the face with your sword.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

Brain In A Jar posted:

It annoys me a little when games painstakingly introduce you to a gameplay element and then it never shows up again.

For example, in Metro 2033, you spend a whole level being introduced to ghosts and anomalies, and then you leave thinking "okay cool, I'm excited to see how these will play out on the battlefield, making things more exciting" and then they just never show up again, for the entire rest of the game.

I think the worst single use mechanic is staring down the Librarians. I don't know if I wasn't doing it right, or if there's some element of chance or what, but it only worked for me half the time.

ro5s
Dec 27, 2012

A happy little mouse!

Pocket Billiards posted:

I think the worst single use mechanic is staring down the Librarians. I don't know if I wasn't doing it right, or if there's some element of chance or what, but it only worked for me half the time.

I can't really remember anymore, but I think there was something related to distance as well. It was something like you had to back off a little if they got too close, though the game never tells you that, just to stand your ground and look at them.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

I felt bad for the librarians because I was playing on Ranger Hardcore, which is the cool difficulty that makes both you and the enemies much more vulnerable, so I dealt with every single librarian by staring at it, walking forwards and then shooting it once in the head with the gauss rifle. I felt less like a scared explorer and more like a slaughterhouse manager with a bolt gun.

Horrible Smutbeast
Sep 2, 2011
Dragon's Dogma has one of the worst implementations of a main story quest I've ever seen in a single player game. This is poo poo on par with 90's games. Go here. Talk to this person so they say something. Walk somewhere else. Okay you did the thing. I wasn't expecting a dialogue wheel or anything super fancy, but something other than "you made your way to the town, now gently caress off" would be nice. I've made it to two towns now and each time I get there the game sort of just...gives up. The only motivation so far has been a dragon showed up and hosed off and that made you kinda mad for 10 minutes so you gotta go find it.

Jesus christ, this is worse than an mmo. The boss fights can't even make up for it since half the time you're just hanging off something while you clip through it and glitch out while huffing down mushrooms and stabbing it's face in.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

Dragon's Dogma has one of the worst implementations of a main story quest I've ever seen in a single player game. This is poo poo on par with 90's games. Go here. Talk to this person so they say something. Walk somewhere else. Okay you did the thing. I wasn't expecting a dialogue wheel or anything super fancy, but something other than "you made your way to the town, now gently caress off" would be nice. I've made it to two towns now and each time I get there the game sort of just...gives up. The only motivation so far has been a dragon showed up and hosed off and that made you kinda mad for 10 minutes so you gotta go find it.

Jesus christ, this is worse than an mmo. The boss fights can't even make up for it since half the time you're just hanging off something while you clip through it and glitch out while huffing down mushrooms and stabbing it's face in.

Dragon's Dogma is an incredibly slow burn and dull as dishwater for most of its duration. It doesn't help that all of the more interesting or in-depth quests have very specific and time-sensitive triggers you need to fulfill, or they just get dropped for the rest of the game.

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Oxxidation posted:

Dragon's Dogma is an incredibly slow burn and dull as dishwater for most of its duration. It doesn't help that all of the more interesting or in-depth quests have very specific and time-sensitive triggers you need to fulfill, or they just get dropped for the rest of the game.

So is there any reason why one would enjoy this game?

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Oxxidation posted:

Dragon's Dogma is an incredibly slow burn and dull as dishwater for most of its duration. It doesn't help that all of the more interesting or in-depth quests have very specific and time-sensitive triggers you need to fulfill, or they just get dropped for the rest of the game.

Like the quest to find the one girl from your village but they don't tell you how to get there and if you do the next story bit they tell you you've failed that quest.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Ramos posted:

So is there any reason why one would enjoy this game?
yes, it's insanely good when it isn't being insanely dumb.

Luisfe
Aug 17, 2005

Hee-lo-ho!

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

yes, it's insanely good when it isn't being insanely dumb.

Or being insanely good WHILE being insanely dumb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP5k9D6gCog&t=71s


Any game where lighting yourself on fire and then climbing on giant monsters is a valid tactic is immediately awesome just for that.

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Drunken Baker
Feb 3, 2015

VODKA STYLE DRINK

muscles like this? posted:

Like the quest to find the one girl from your village but they don't tell you how to get there and if you do the next story bit they tell you you've failed that quest.

If that's the mission I think then it requires you go through an area of really high level bandits too, so if you do it on your first run you're bound to die.

Luckily (I think) it's a game where you re-play on new game plus over and over so there's always next time. I'm not sure though i stopped playing because X-Com 2 came out. Sorry DD.

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