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nyxnyxnyx posted:I'm buying into the game for realsies and was wondering what you guys think about the long-term prospects of Heaver's Poe/Stresshog/Ezra build? Is it a good idea for me to buy into that list considering what Wave VIII might bring? Poe/Stresshog is never not going to be a solid core of a list TBH.
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Feb 14, 2016 11:35
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So, I ended up playing a bunch of games yesterday at the store. Two were versions of DVD. It's pretty good, but the low PS was definitely an issue, and the list I played against wasn't top tier. Went 1-1 with it. First list was Ruthlessness and Ion Cannon on Vessery, and that was very strong, I think I killed the enemy Palob almost entirely with Ruthlessness hits. I think running Delta/Vessery/something else could end up being a good list. After that, I tried out POW. Shuttles: not even once. I hate the space cow deeply, and this game didn't change my opinion. I do like Whisper a good bit though, so I ended up running a stealth Delta in place of the Palpmobile after that. This felt much more satisfying, and this game the Delta really pulled through. Granted, my rolls for offense with the thing were either all hits, or hits + focus, so it was a good helping of luck there. Think the Delta ended up entirely killing the enemy Vader, who repeatedly got blocked by Whisper's decloaking. I think I'm sold on the x7 Delta being a good include as a durable generic ship. I still don't feel like it's OP, but if your opponent can't get a chance to focus fire it, it's just not going to die, so the value goes up the fewer ships your opponent has.
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Feb 14, 2016 11:38
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nyxnyxnyx posted:I'm buying into the game for realsies and was wondering what you guys think about the long-term prospects of Heaver's Poe/Stresshog/Ezra build? Is it a good idea for me to buy into that list considering what Wave VIII might bring? I think it's a pretty potent build of kinda "The best of rebels" kind of stuff and if you get a good amount of practice with it you'll do well.
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Feb 14, 2016 12:51
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Panzeh posted:I think it's a pretty potent build of kinda "The best of rebels" kind of stuff and if you get a good amount of practice with it you'll do well. It's probably worth pointing out that getting lots of practice and knowing your list well and knowing how it performs are much more important than having a strong list. And knowing how everyone else's list is going to work is more important than either.
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Feb 14, 2016 13:07
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Yeah I will practice and try to get knowledge of popular matchups, just worried I might be tryharding too much and getting on people's nerves :x
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Feb 14, 2016 13:26
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nyxnyxnyx posted:Yeah I will practice and try to get knowledge of popular matchups, just worried I might be tryharding too much and getting on people's nerves :x Just use your social skills. Nobody cares to hear your opinion of their list or how you won x game with x pilot. As an X-Wing Veteran™ I never care to hear a new guy's opinion on anything but I get annoyed really easily. 
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Feb 14, 2016 14:21
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nyxnyxnyx posted:Yeah I will practice and try to get knowledge of popular matchups, just worried I might be tryharding too much and getting on people's nerves :x Just go down to your club and play a bunch. Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter what lists, play against a variety of players, of a variety of levels and a variety of factions and list types.
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Feb 14, 2016 14:23
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Brunas posted:Don't do this, it was bad. I agree, it doesn't seem to do enough for the points. Raging Tycho OTOH seems viable, especially when you fire proton rockets.
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Feb 14, 2016 15:03
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[ANAL PROCKETING] 96 points PILOTS Green Squadron Pilot (24) x 4 A-Wing (19), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Proton Rockets (3), Rage (1), Guidance Chips (0), Crack Shot (1)
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Feb 14, 2016 15:10
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 So, Han ain't dead, kids. The key is patience. Very few lists benefit from bum rushing from the start. I also think that for lists like mine setup is just a way to manipulate the opponent more than anything. Both Han and Miranda have a ton of movement options and I can split them up in all kinds of ways. Things like brobots have intricate game plans but I just do things that troll my opponent.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:23
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nyxnyxnyx posted:I'm buying into the game for realsies and was wondering what you guys think about the long-term prospects of Heaver's Poe/Stresshog/Ezra build? Is it a good idea for me to buy into that list considering what Wave VIII might bring? The Ezra shuttle is a crazy-efficient ship for the points, and is probably a better version of Poe/RA/Y-Wing on paper, but I haven't tested the shuttle in any where near enough games. Proxy the poo poo out of it, and if you like it, run it. Poe is a proven workhorse and the stresshog is obviously viable, so there's basically no way you're far away from a table-ready competitive list if you buy in with that list, but you're also looking at buying: - An OT Core Set - A TFA Core Set - A Y-Wing - A K-Wing - A Ghost expansion when it arrives in Wave VIII - An A-Wing or Imperial Veterans - A StarViper - A Millennium Falcon expansion - A Rebel Transport Epic ship ... to run Poe/Ezra/GSP, provided you don't get anything on the secondary market. Something to consider. The Gate posted:So, I ended up playing a bunch of games yesterday at the store. Two were versions of DVD. It's pretty good, but the low PS was definitely an issue, and the list I played against wasn't top tier. Went 1-1 with it. First list was Ruthlessness and Ion Cannon on Vessery, and that was very strong, I think I killed the enemy Palob almost entirely with Ruthlessness hits. I think running Delta/Vessery/something else could end up being a good list. The prevalence of two/three ships in the meta, locally and otherwise, is a large part of the reason why I think the generic Delta in DVD is going to be so frustrating. You need to bring multiple guns to bear on it to actually destroy it, and you made a pretty salient point yesterday when you said that the white 4K may be telegraphed, a lot of the time, but it also usually just doesn't matter. What hurts most trick maneuvers is that people tend to not attempt one unless it's the obvious "best" move, and if it's obvious to one person it's usually obvious to two, and if you go for that 2K on your B-Wing and gently caress it up, RIP. The Delta doesn't stress, gets a free Evade out of the deal, and can apply the K turn very, very liberally. I'm surprised to see that you didn't like Yorr with the Emperor on him, but if you hate flying the space cow that's a fairly justified opinion. Subjectively I love the thing for being able to take people on an express train to Frowntown, either with a block or with the 3-dice gun, and eating up stress from Tactician/Kath/Rebel Captive/stresshog/redmoving just puts Yorr over the top. Still, very interesting to see that slotting a Delta in was successful. thespaceinvader posted:It's probably worth pointing out that getting lots of practice and knowing your list well and knowing how it performs are much more important than having a strong list. And knowing how everyone else's list is going to work is more important than either. I agree with caveats. If you're starting from zero and don't have a huge budget for X-Wing, do a lot of research. Mess around in the YASB, and get at least minute familiarity with most upgrade cards. Watch match videos. Don't copy a list just because it's a winner - copy it if you think it's a winner and you think you know why that is. Understanding why value is assigned to things at a competitive level the way that value is assigned is important when trying to form your own opinions of the ships and upgrades in the game. I got print-outs of every ship dial in the game that I studied when I first jumped into X-Wing, as well, and it was worth it. Every word of the above only applies if you're playing to win games. If you're just looking to come in and have fun, you can do that basically right away, and shouldn't even worry about what lists won Worlds and which ones did not. nyxnyxnyx posted:Yeah I will practice and try to get knowledge of popular matchups, just worried I might be tryharding too much and getting on people's nerves :x The term "tryhard" is ridiculous. It's a game, and the objective is to win. You obviously don't want to ruin anyone else's time intentionally, but trying to achieve the objective of the game is not a valid excuse for your opponent to be upset. If anyone ever gets mad at you because you're actually ~trying to win~ then you can safely discount their opinion on anything related to X-Wing and probably most competitive games or exercises in general. "Play the game the way I want to play it or I will attempt to ridicule you" is just weird. Don't worry about that poo poo. alg posted:Just use your social skills. Nobody cares to hear your opinion of their list or how you won x game with x pilot. As an X-Wing Veteran™™ I never care to hear a new guy's opinion on anything but I get annoyed really easily. I am the exact opposite. I'd rather hear your opinion than not, particularly if you have compelling reasons to have that opinion. I also don't think being new or being a "veteran" matters. Good advice is good advice, no matter who is giving it. Supplying people with unsolicited advice when they're in a game, or not otherwise in an environment where supplying advice/an opinion can be reasonably expected, can be frustrating, but if someone dismisses you because they've been playing the game chronologically longer than you have, you can probably safely dismiss them, too. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I agree, it doesn't seem to do enough for the points. And now we've gotten to the root of the Keyan Farlander trap. Keyan "He Doesn't Do Enough For The Points" Farlander. 
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Feb 14, 2016 17:37
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Panzeh posted:
Congratulations again, Panzeh. That poo poo looks hecka nice. I've been a proponent for Mr. Solo* for a while, and I think he absolutely can still thrive in metas that aren't drowning in Thug Lyfe builds, and other than Gunner/Vader Decimator Han is the PWT I am most afraid of as POW. Good to see you doing God's work and winning games with the Falcon. EDIT:*Mr. Solo in the current metagame, I mean - he's obviously been good since forever guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 17:39
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Panzeh posted:
Can you type that list out? I can't read the cards.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:48
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Can you type that list out? I can't read the cards. miranda/tlt/tactician, han/chewbacca/gunner/engine upgrade/millenium falcon/predator
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Feb 14, 2016 17:51
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:miranda/tlt/tactician, han/chewbacca/gunner/engine upgrade/millenium falcon/predator Here it is in YASB if you want to play around with the build.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:01
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guts and bolts posted:Congratulations again, Panzeh. That poo poo looks hecka nice. I've been a proponent for Mr. Solo* for a while, and I think he absolutely can still thrive in metas that aren't drowning in Thug Lyfe builds, and other than Gunner/Vader Decimator Han is the PWT I am most afraid of as POW. Good to see you doing God's work and winning games with the Falcon. I think the thing is, if I limited myself to matchups that are + against TLTs, I would be hobbled against the rest of the field. I feel like I have enough in this list to beat a TLT player who isn't perfect in maneuvering them, but it's still at a disadvantage against them. However, it does give me a chance against Palp/aces builds. In particular, Han can tear up Whisper regardless of initiative because he's either stuck with 2 dice or I can arcdodge him. If Han has enough hitpoints left i'm pretty comfortable with the omega leader matchup.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:05
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Panzeh posted:I think the thing is, if I limited myself to matchups that are + against TLTs, I would be hobbled against the rest of the field. I feel like I have enough in this list to beat a TLT player who isn't perfect in maneuvering them, but it's still at a disadvantage against them. However, it does give me a chance against Palp/aces builds. In particular, Han can tear up Whisper regardless of initiative because he's either stuck with 2 dice or I can arcdodge him. If Han has enough hitpoints left i'm pretty comfortable with the omega leader matchup. Congrats on your win. Isn't C-3PO an all around better crew member than Chewy on Solo? Seems like you get a lot more uses out of it instead of a single oh-poo poo moment. I've been using Solo & Poe a bit, but I like Miranda in this list, I might give it a try. Edit: Just saw your post on my Facebook feed. I really need to get out to some stores and play to get some more games in. Anything good in the Annapolis/Baltimore area? I assume Games and Stuff has frequent games, what about Cardboard Gaming and Third Eye Games? Gerdalti fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 18:21
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Gerdalti posted:Congrats on your win. C-3P0 is better in most situations, yes. He is worth 5/8 of an evade every turn- depending on how long you make it, this will usually end up worth more than Chewie's 2(sometimes 3) shields. However, I did discard some pretty important crits that way. The reason I didn't take him, though is because I don't have a corvette. I'm actually tempted to put C-3PO on Miranda if I were modifying it now.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:29
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How many of us are in the DC/MD/VA area? Also what does PWT mean? Beer4TheBeerGod fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 18:30
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Also what does PWT mean? Primary Weapon Turret.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:44
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guts and bolts posted:The Ezra shuttle is a crazy-efficient ship for the points, and is probably a better version of Poe/RA/Y-Wing on paper, but I haven't tested the shuttle in any where near enough games. Proxy the poo poo out of it, and if you like it, run it. Poe is a proven workhorse and the stresshog is obviously viable, so there's basically no way you're far away from a table-ready competitive list if you buy in with that list, but you're also looking at buying: So far I have the StarViper, the K-Wing, and TFA Core Set. I can beg, borrow and steal quite a bit of the other stuff (the Y-Wing title, R2-D2, Y-Wing model and base itself) so it's fine. Ghost isn't out yet so I think people should be fine with me proxying the Attack Shuttle, I hope. I actually have a question: why is Chewbacca used instead of another crew, say, Kyle Katarn? Is it not good to have that convenient 1-point initiative bid too? I'm also thinking what I should get with my next purchase. Is the Millenium Falcon a good idea? It gets me Crewbacca and VI for the list I'm currently building, but is the ship itself / its pilots still any good in the current Wave VII/VIII meta? It'd be nice to buy something that might have some future use (: Regarding 'tryhards', I play to win quite a bit, and coming a background of card games, I'm aware that the minis crowd isn't quite as competitive as the card crowd, thus my concern. It's all well and good to say that I should just 'gently caress the haters' and 'ignore them' but it's not great to burn bridges when I'm still starting out haha. Will definitely consider it if and when I do get better though!
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Feb 14, 2016 18:50
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:How many of us are in the DC/MD/VA area? I'm in Fredericksburg, VA. Not quite NoVa, but only like an hour from DC.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:51
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Why do folks pefer YASB and not this one?
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Feb 14, 2016 19:06
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nyxnyxnyx posted:I actually have a question: why is Chewbacca used instead of another crew, say, Kyle Katarn? Is it not good to have that convenient 1-point initiative bid too? He's my madcap choice for a Sabine shuttle, but that isn't what your Ezra shuttle is trying to do. With a Hull Upgrade, Ezra's pilot ability, and Chewbacca, the thinking is that you can survive for an absurdly long time, worth much more than a simple Focus-when-you-greenmove option. I don't think Kyle is a terrible choice, I just don't think he's better than Chewie. More to the point, VI Poe lists don't care about an initiative bid - you covered that angle when you stuck VI on Poe in the first place. At PS10, you're only getting tied by certain RAC builds and beaten by VI Vader, and neither one of those permutations are worth cutting Chewie from the shuttle, imo. quote:I'm also thinking what I should get with my next purchase. Is the Millenium Falcon a good idea? It gets me Crewbacca and VI for the list I'm currently building, but is the ship itself / its pilots still any good in the current Wave VII/VIII meta? It'd be nice to buy something that might have some future use (: Han Solo is an excellent ship. Panzeh's list is good, a lot of Han + Zs lists are good, Poe + Han is good - Han is good. He gets eaten alive by a pure-TLT meta, but there are ways to contend with that, and if you don't go to critical mass on your TLT spam (3+) he can absolutely demolish some fools with Gunner, which you'll need a Slave I or YT-2400 expansion to get, hypothetically. (I have enough extra that I can part with one.) quote:Regarding 'tryhards', I play to win quite a bit, and coming a background of card games, I'm aware that the minis crowd isn't quite as competitive as the card crowd, thus my concern. It's all well and good to say that I should just 'gently caress the haters' and 'ignore them' but it's not great to burn bridges when I'm still starting out haha. Will definitely consider it if and when I do get better though! C'est la vie, man. X-Wing isn't Warhammer, in my experience. If someone is legitimately going to consider it a "burned bridge" if you play a competitive list against him, that guy is never worth playing against. It's the epitome of hypocrisy. "Play the way I want you to play, but don't do the same thing back to me that's ~lame~ you ~tryhard~" is just ridiculous on its face. If someone asks you, like, "Hey, I don't think I'm good enough to contend against a list like that yet, can you run something else while I practice" or "I was looking to get a matchup against something more like <thing>, do you have that" that's one thing, and I will gladly go along for that ride. If someone's like "I'm not going to play you because you have TLTs in your list," I'm not sure he was worth hanging on to as a prospective opponent/X-Wing buddy. 
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Feb 14, 2016 19:07
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How does Predator and Han's ability work together? You can't reroll a die that's already been rerolled once, so how does having two reroll abilities work?
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Feb 14, 2016 19:12
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:How does Predator and Han's ability work together? You can't reroll a die that's already been rerolled once, so how does having two reroll abilities work? If you roll hit hit blank, you can predator to reroll the blank without using Han's ability to ditch what is otherwise a decent attack.
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Feb 14, 2016 19:14
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:How does Predator and Han's ability work together? You can't reroll a die that's already been rerolled once, so how does having two reroll abilities work? Strobe posted:If you roll hit hit blank, you can predator to reroll the blank without using Han's ability to ditch what is otherwise a decent attack. Not only that, but you can dicefix very effectively with Predator and Han in tandem because you can't reroll a die twice in the same attack. You can re-roll one or two of the results you don't think are very good, and then reroll the other dice results if Predator doesn't get you where you want to go. This is useful for intentionally missing, as well, in an effort to just get a better overall attack (if you roll hit/eye/blank, reroll eye and blank and get two blanks, you can just Han your hit and intentionally try to gently caress it up so you're guaranteed a Gunner shot). EDIT: a lot of Hans I see with Predator and Gunner will instantly jump to Han's ability if they roll three bad dice on the first roll, but generally I will always Predator first. If you roll three blanks, Predator one or two dice and it's still blank or you can't modify it anyway, you're better off just letting the attack miss instead of using Han - in my experience, anyway. I'm sure there's math to support doing it one way or the other. guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 19:20
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Von Humboldt posted:I have to ask; why no Mangler? Too expensive and you can't use it out of the rear arc. You could grab it which lets you get a new ept, but you've lost half of your space control doing so. You can only get 1 stress with Kath cancelling crits, so calculation + mangler doesn't help you.
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Feb 14, 2016 19:22
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Why do folks pefer YASB and not this one? I find the YASB interface easier to work with
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Feb 14, 2016 19:26
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Improbable Lobster posted:I find the YASB interface easier to work with
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Feb 14, 2016 19:27
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guts and bolts posted:He's my madcap choice for a Sabine shuttle, but that isn't what your Ezra shuttle is trying to do. With a Hull Upgrade, Ezra's pilot ability, and Chewbacca, the thinking is that you can survive for an absurdly long time, worth much more than a simple Focus-when-you-greenmove option. I don't think Kyle is a terrible choice, I just don't think he's better than Chewie. More to the point, VI Poe lists don't care about an initiative bid - you covered that angle when you stuck VI on Poe in the first place. At PS10, you're only getting tied by certain RAC builds and beaten by VI Vader, and neither one of those permutations are worth cutting Chewie from the shuttle, imo. Thanks, I think I will be getting the Falcon then. Down the rabbit hole it is~
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Feb 14, 2016 19:33
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guts and bolts posted:
At store championships people playing since the new core were telling me the Phantom is dogshit and was overnerfed. Lol. I just can't take the amount of stupid talk from most gamers. No need to run your mouth during a game.
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Feb 14, 2016 19:57
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God forbid that Phantoms actually take skill to use. Some people are idiots.
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Feb 14, 2016 20:02
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Why do folks pefer YASB and not this one? I prefer the interface, personally. And I don't know if the other one interacts in the same way with Han Shopped First, though that's becoming a lot less necessary as my collection grows.
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Feb 14, 2016 20:04
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alg posted:At store championships people playing since the new core were telling me the Phantom is dogshit and was overnerfed. Lol. I just can't take the amount of stupid talk from most gamers. No need to run your mouth during a game. Unsolicited advice from new players mid-game when it doesn't even make the beginnings of sense is frustrating. Besides, wasn't POW top 4 at GA's store champs? Yeah, Phantoms looking like real dogshit there. Actually unsolicited bad advice from anyone if you're in the middle of a game or otherwise can't just immediately rebut them/ask them to defend their dumb position is basically the worst thing. That One Guy routinely gives me advice that is pants-on-head stupid, and talking about X-Wing with him is a complete waste of time as a result. I don't know exactly how long he's been playing, but he told me it's been for a while. I also don't get the reason why people tear down ships or players they don't like. If anything you'd think it would be the opposite - "I only lost because <thing> is OP" or "I lost because <person> is really, really good" is easier on the ego then "<thing/person> sucks." Like, if the Phantom is absolute unplayable dogshit, POW clowning on your list makes your list literally worse than unplayable dogshit
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Feb 14, 2016 20:05
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Just never offer unsolicited advice. Nobody wants to hear it lol. Unless it's correcting people's horrible mis pronunciations of stuff. I left Warhammer for a reason edit: gonna arm my calvary with halbreads
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Feb 14, 2016 20:07
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alg posted:Just never offer unsolicited advice. Nobody wants to hear it lol. I've had a few good experiences where someone came over to me during a game and offered advice, but it was the gentle "ask questions" type of advice, and it was because I was doing something obviously really bad. GA has a few players who I think are better than I am, for sure, and I'll take what I can get if they wanna talk shop. Coming over to a dude and telling him his list sucks because the Phantom sucks because the Phantom got nerfed into the ground and why would you ever run the Phantom lmao isn't even advice, it's just being a loving idiot. That said, it's 100% presumptuous to come over and just start telling someone stuff as if you do know better than they do. Having someone watching the game and asking what I thought I was getting out of PTL/BB-8 Poe was useful, even if he defaulted to offering up regen Poe as an alternative. If he had just come over and been like "PTL Poe eats dick, run this instead," I'd have been annoyed.
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Feb 14, 2016 20:14
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thespaceinvader posted:I prefer the interface, personally. And I don't know if the other one interacts in the same way with Han Shopped First, though that's becoming a lot less necessary as my collection grows. It might be fixed now, but the one Beer linked also would completely gently caress up the points if you removed a ship. Like, you could delete the whole list and it would tell you you had negative points. Also it wouldn't load sometimes, or would randomly delete ships. And it refused to load on my phone.
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Feb 14, 2016 20:44
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I would embrace shading the white. Hit it with a very light blue and you'll see some awesome results. Washes are your friend, especially if you have problems keeping your hands steady.  Thanks for the advice!
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Feb 14, 2016 22:12
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I want to give Super Dash a try, but I want to run something other than Corran Horn. I was thinking of running two T-65 X-Wings with a 1 point droid and IA. To do that, I need to shave a couple points off of Super Dash. My question, is what's more important? The Heavy Laser Cannon, or Kyle Katarn? My guess is that Kyle is better for action economy, and with two 3 dice wingmen, I can give up the raw damage of the HLC and go with Mangler (also no donut hole). Any thoughts on this list? Dash Rendar — YT-2400 36 Push the Limit 3 "Mangler" Cannon 4 Kyle Katarn 3 Engine Upgrade 4 Outrider 5 Ship Total: 55 Rookie Pilot — X-Wing 21 R2 Astromech 1 Integrated Astromech 0 Ship Total: 22 Rookie Pilot — X-Wing 21 R2 Astromech 1 Integrated Astromech 0 Ship Total: 22
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Feb 14, 2016 22:28
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