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gradenko_2000 posted:What would you even do with the PoW and Repulse, assuming you got them out? Start some poo poo in the Java Sea before it turns into a Betty-patrolled lake? Sail down to Oz and link up with US BBs for central Pacific shore bombardment? Them not being dead is worth points, so even if they sit in Colombo and do nothing, that's still points that the Japanese don't get! 
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Feb 16, 2016 07:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:What would you even do with the PoW and Repulse, assuming you got them out? Start some poo poo in the Java Sea before it turns into a Betty-patrolled lake? Sail down to Oz and link up with US BBs for central Pacific shore bombardment? The PoW is fairly fast, fast enough to keep up with CVs I believe. I don't know what kind of AA upgrades it gets but just being a fast BB is useful in that it can be a magnet for planes that would otherwise hit your CV's. Sending Force Z in to beat up invasion fleets in the DEI or around Port Moresby is also doable.
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Feb 16, 2016 07:43
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A White Guy posted:Grey put the PoW and Repulse on wheels and rolled them to Johannesburg on roads made from the bones of dead Japanese. So that's where all the dead IJ guys from Eniwetok wound up... As an aside, I really hope we see a nice battleship engagement at some point during this war.
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Feb 16, 2016 13:18
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Pervis posted:The PoW is fairly fast, fast enough to keep up with CVs I believe. I don't know what kind of AA upgrades it gets but just being a fast BB is useful in that it can be a magnet for planes that would otherwise hit your CV's. Sending Force Z in to beat up invasion fleets in the DEI or around Port Moresby is also doable. I don't reclaim game, but in real life had one of the best AAA systems on any ship afloat for the time and it was highly, highly effective; however, both PoW and were suffering from radar failure do to the heat of the tropics, and rather than wait 5 days for repairs, sortied against the Japanese anyway. Prince of Wales was literally a brand new modern battleship. She was so new she had to withdrawal at Denmark Straits not so much because HMS Hood went boom, but mostly because her untested quadruple turret stopped working.
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Feb 16, 2016 15:24
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The Prince and Repulse also sank in shallow enough water and in intact enough sections that they're both unironically an artifical reef.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:14
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Given the actual combat history of the HACS system, I actually think it's fair to assume that one or both of the ships (PoW or Repulse) would have survived the Japanese attack on the 10th. Any attack the next day would largely depend on how idiotic Tom Philips continued to be about accepting actual CAP coverage. As it was the PoW probably would have lived had he called for air support earlier than 10 minutes into the attack, and agreed to allow all the help offered by various RAF commanders. Maybe even the Repulse. She literally dodged 19 torpedoes before she was hit, and the last two, which hit her, were the ones that sunk her.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:34
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   The wolfpack is back in action!  I might have to pull the KB back!  These guys are making a dent though.  No more damage is reported at Bataan.  Until now, we are winning here now, so its just a matter of grinding them down.   We hit another troop transport.  While our advancing troops are bombed again.   We are winning at Amoy now.   Right, that should be enough resting – time to go on the offesive once more – expect lots of blood tomorrow.  I'm also diverting the Kido Butai into the hunting grounds.  Hey, that's another kill.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:15
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8" guns at light cargo ships seems wasteful.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:24
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Nice to see Bataan turn a corner, hopefully Singers is next.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:50
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Wait, are you marching the troops through the mountains to Port Moresby? So we can expect to see them arrive some time around mid August?
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Feb 16, 2016 18:59
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Mountain Jungle. Reduce your land speed to Nnnope.
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Feb 16, 2016 19:12
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Grey Hunter posted:
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Feb 16, 2016 19:50
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Do you plan on sending subs to the west coast? I want to see the KV Chiliwack in action.
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Feb 16, 2016 20:13
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Grey Hunter posted:
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Feb 16, 2016 20:39
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ZombieLenin posted:Given the actual combat history of the HACS system, I actually think it's fair to assume that one or both of the ships (PoW or Repulse) would have survived the Japanese attack on the 10th. The Japanese were hunting Force Z with surface assets too. If they had survived intact and not immediately fled, there would have been a surface action. Mind you, Force Z was returning to Singapore when they diverted to respond to reports of a landing, so I don't know if they would remain in the area for very long.
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Feb 16, 2016 21:15
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I honestly don't think the radar directed AA would've made a difference considering the magnitude of the air attack they suffered. Yamato also had radar directed AA and was positively bristling with AA assets, and still only managed to kill a 10 aircraft before being sunk.
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Feb 16, 2016 23:44
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A White Guy posted:I honestly don't think the radar directed AA would've made a difference considering the magnitude of the air attack they suffered. Yamato also had radar directed AA and was positively bristling with AA assets, and still only managed to kill a 10 aircraft before being sunk. And several of those kills were actually due to the Yamato's massive explosion when it was sinking.
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Feb 16, 2016 23:47
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Yamato had enough AA to be able to mount an effective defence as part of a fleet. Instead she had one cruiser and some destroyers against a metric fuckload of enemy aircraft who were getting very good at killing large ships. edit - Basically, lol, guns on boats goatface fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 00:01
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goatface posted:Yamato had enough AA to be able to mount an effective defence as part of a fleet. Instead she had one cruiser and some destroyers against a metric fuckload of enemy aircraft who were getting very good at killing large ships. If this is to be believed, the PoW had double the effective AA suite compared to Yamato due to better ROF. Basically lol Japanese anti-air. EDIT:I'm wrong, apparently that was a 1945 configuration for the class. Dreamsicle fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 00:26
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25 vs 40mm too. Little rounds for effectively emplaced guns.
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Feb 17, 2016 00:33
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And two battlecruisers, with 4 destroyer escort managed to kill a grand total of 4 thinly armored planes. Early war AA was a joke.
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Feb 17, 2016 00:36
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Grey Hunter posted:
Bombing from 26k feet again, though. I hope the "wolfpack" can find something more valuable to destroy, or it can't be worth the fuel. Picking off individual small cargo ships is submarine work.
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Feb 17, 2016 00:42
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A White Guy posted:And two battlecruisers, with 4 destroyer escort managed to kill a grand total of 4 thinly armored planes. Early war AA was a joke. Which engagement was this? It seems like the Channel Dash but IIRC more planes got shot down.
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Feb 17, 2016 01:35
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goatface posted:Mountain Jungle. Reduce your land speed to Nnnope. Why isn't he trying the original plan of making an end run around New Guinea? Hasn't been a Coral Sea to interrupt him.
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Feb 17, 2016 01:47
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Dreamsicle posted:Which engagement was this? It seems like the Channel Dash but IIRC more planes got shot down. The Sinking of Prince of Wales and the Repulse .
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Feb 17, 2016 02:45
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A White Guy posted:I honestly don't think the radar directed AA would've made a difference considering the magnitude of the air attack they suffered. Yamato also had radar directed AA and was positively bristling with AA assets, and still only managed to kill a 10 aircraft before being sunk. A White Guy posted:I honestly don't think the radar directed AA would've made a difference considering the magnitude of the air attack they suffered. Yamato also had radar directed AA and was positively bristling with AA assets, and still only managed to kill a 10 aircraft before being sunk. The Luftwaffe attacked a two HACS equipped cruisers in May 1941 with 30 odd planes and were only able to get close enough (after losing 7 planes) to drop bombs when the cruisers ran out of AAA ammunition. During Operation Halberd, a Malta convoy which PoW and one other HACS equipped ship was escorting was attacked by 28 torpedo bombers, only 3 bombers made it through the Flak cover to launch torpedo attacks. Given that, the fact both repulse and pow had HACS systems, and the fact that despite the number of torpedoes fired on Repulse and Prince of Wales, it was only the last attack that got through which was fatal (Repulse literally dodged 19 torpedoes before 2 of the last three dropped hit and sunk her), I think it possible that one or both of them could have survived. However, as someone pointed out, if the first torpedo that hit PoW still hit her, she was screwed. That one torpedo hit a propeller shaft, killed power to half the ship, and caused a list that made half her AAA useless, then PoW would most likely have been caught by Japnese surface elements. Edit Also keep in mind when Yamato was sunk (in 1945 versus 1941) and was attacked by around 280 Allied planes. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 03:09
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Oh, he said 2 battlecruisers which confused me. PoW was a BB not BC.
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Feb 17, 2016 03:11
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Dreamsicle posted:Oh, he said 2 battlecruisers which confused me. PoW was a BB not BC. Correct. Repulse was the BC, and despite her speed, really had no business in a shooting war.
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Feb 17, 2016 03:27
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ZombieLenin posted:Correct. Repulse was the BC, and despite her speed, really had no business in a shooting war. Wasn't that the case with the entire concept of a BC, considering how often they just loving exploded?
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Feb 17, 2016 03:33
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The Japanese force hunting Force Z consisted of Mikuma, Mogami, Suyuza, Kumano (forming CruDiv 7), plus Chokai, Sendai, Atago, Takao, and the "battleships" Kongo and Haruna, plus twelve destroyers. They were divided into CruDiv 7 plus Chokai and Sendai plus four destroyers in one group, who were ordered to engage Force Z in night attack (they passed within 10000 yards but did not make contact during the night), and the rest in a second group. Interestingly, as Force Z's radar systems, including surface radar, was inoperable, they don't have any particular technical advantage in a gunnery battle besides armor and gun size/effectiveness. Now if we presume that radar-directed HACS is operable and therefore the other radar systems are operable, there would probably have been a night engagement previous to the air attack, as the surface radar would have detected the Japanese force.
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Feb 17, 2016 03:52
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Night10194 posted:Wasn't that the case with the entire concept of a BC, considering how often they just loving exploded? No, that was only a hallmark of the British ones, and even then it wasn't a matter of design so much as all the safety protocols they were violating in regards to ammunition and powder storage.
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Feb 17, 2016 04:09
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TheDemon posted:The Japanese force hunting Force Z consisted of Mikuma, Mogami, Suyuza, Kumano (forming CruDiv 7), plus Chokai, Sendai, Atago, Takao, and the "battleships" Kongo and Haruna, plus twelve destroyers. They were divided into CruDiv 7 plus Chokai and Sendai plus four destroyers in one group, who were ordered to engage Force Z in night attack (they passed within 10000 yards but did not make contact during the night), and the rest in a second group. If force Z had stayed in port until its radars were repaired, wouldn't it have risked destruction from the air? In the days following Pearl Harbour, I don't think very many admirals nor captains were too keen on keeping their vessels docked at ports within striking range of a surprise Japanese attack.
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Feb 17, 2016 07:43
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My Imaginary GF posted:If force Z had stayed in port until its radars were repaired, wouldn't it have risked destruction from the air? In the days following Pearl Harbour, I don't think very many admirals nor captains were too keen on keeping their vessels docked at ports within striking range of a surprise Japanese attack. I posted under the premise of what if they never had radar trouble in the first place. If they had waited five days (or even two or three days), it's almost certain that orders would have come down from the admiralty / Churchill, and Force Z's sortie would have been very different in the specifics.
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Feb 17, 2016 15:33
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Well, I guess it won't matter in this LP. Repulse ate 6 ( ) torpedos, and Prince of Wales took 3 torpedos. Unless the Allied AI has gotten fantastically lucky, they're sitting at the bottom of the South China sea.What's happening in Burma, Grey? It seems like you're concentrating most of your troops on China right now.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:25
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Random question: does this game model fog of war conditions for the player's own units? That is, is it possible to have a ship disappear on you and never find out what happened to it? (This question prompted by reading about USS Indianapolis, which was sunk by a sub while under radio silence and went down so quickly that the crew didn't have time to send out a distress call so the higher-ups didn't know what the gently caress had happened to her until the few remaining survivors were found four days later.)
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Feb 17, 2016 18:07
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 I swear they are set to 10k feet.  We slam troops into the Americans – they must break! After we rest.  The Kido Butai starts hunting once more, and starts by obliterating a destroyer.  This is what we've been needing – some action!  Shooting fish in a barrel!  We continue to advance across New Britain.  We crack another layer of forts at Changsha.  We also begin attacking at Wenchow once more.  I also have to keep my supply lines clear.  That's a good day – we took some losses, but made progress across a good number of fronts. Oh, and see that 69 operational losses?  I took that base they had all their fighters at – and it had no ground defences!  We also took out a good number of ships. A White Guy posted:Well, I guess it won't matter in this LP. Repulse ate 6 ( The troops are all attacking Singapore way, then we'll push up into Burma and down into the DEI.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:23
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Those xAKLs are worth less than the bombs dropped on them. Hopefully they had some valuable cargo.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:37
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Silverbeech is a five and a bit kiloton general purpose freighter (OTL sunk by a U-boat while carrying munitions and planes), so that's definitely a good kill. The AKL Latouche is slightly interesting, 2kt steamer listed as captured by the Japanese early Feb 1942 and renamed Azuchi Maru. Sunk by US aircraft in 1944.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:16
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Mikl posted:Random question: does this game model fog of war conditions for the player's own units? That is, is it possible to have a ship disappear on you and never find out what happened to it? Some of your ships will be sunk by "Unknown" but I'm unsure if its limited to subs, or even solely caused by them.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:09
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Some of your ships will be sunk by "Unknown" but I'm unsure if its limited to subs, or even solely caused by them. Goddamn Sharktopus!
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Feb 17, 2016 20:11
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