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Azhais posted:I think the main problem is that Kane and Clarke are the only two members of skycrew that are capable of making rational decisions Theres a lot of irony in that since the grounders are the remnants of America and Pike is an example of a Good American mindset so he wants to kill them all. 
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Feb 17, 2016 05:20
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I think the main problem is that the writers don't know what they are doing. They have their own twitter account where they post stuff overheard in the writers room. Some of it is beyond stupid.
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Feb 17, 2016 05:23
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I think that might be an overreaction to a single lovely subplot.
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Feb 17, 2016 05:31
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Pike was elected precisely because Kane's pacifism doesn't have many fans among Skaikru. Kane continues to ask his people to turn the other cheek despite the grounders loving them over again and again. How many of his people have to die before he sends Lexa a strongly worded letter? Pike on the other hand is advocating that Skaikru stand up for themselves and fight fire with fire, and for a group that has been getting shat on constantly since making it to Earth, that's a attractive proposition. Bellamy was basically the proto-Pike of season one, and risked more than anyone to make the grounder-Skaikru alliance work, and all he got for his troubles was a knife in the back from the grounders. Cooperating with grounders to battle the mountain men was Bellamy being pragmatic in dealing with a more threatening foe, but he has always been the most anti-grounder character on the show until Pike showed up.
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Feb 17, 2016 05:36
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TyrantWD posted:Bellamy was basically the proto-Pike of season one, and risked more than anyone to make the grounder-Skaikru alliance work, and all he got for his troubles was a knife in the back from the grounders. Cooperating with grounders to battle the mountain men was Bellamy being pragmatic in dealing with a more threatening foe, but he has always been the most anti-grounder character on the show until Pike showed up.
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Feb 17, 2016 05:50
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I could sympathize with Pike and Bellamy if the plan was to go out and gently caress up some Ice Nation scum, but instead the plan essentially boils down to cold-blooded murder of the nearest Grounders they can find (and ones Bellamy should know better than to blindly mistrust, at that) and it's really lame, asinine writing.
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Feb 17, 2016 07:40
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Noctone posted:I could sympathize with Pike and Bellamy if the plan was to go out and gently caress up some Ice Nation scum, but instead the plan essentially boils down to cold-blooded murder of the nearest Grounders they can find (and ones Bellamy should know better than to blindly mistrust, at that) and it's really lame, asinine writing.
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Feb 17, 2016 07:47
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It's not like abby and kane made better decisions in season 2 either guys see literally everything wrt finn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRaT_DyI_x0
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Feb 17, 2016 13:25
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Cat Army 
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Abby especially has a really bad track-record.
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Feb 17, 2016 13:44
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The Iron Rose posted:It's not like abby and kane made better decisions in season 2 either guys Oh drat, thank you for this video. I watched a few episodes of this show, and it failed to hook me; was considering giving it a few more until I saw that clip. Maybe it's easier to swallow spread out over a longer span of time, but you can honestly hear the stupid leaking out as the plot grinds common sense to pulp for the sake of manufacturing tension.
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Feb 17, 2016 14:45
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I think Abby and Kane have the problem of being too theoretical. They may have a bit more rationality than others, but they get too hung up on overthinking things and what if scenarios, which makes sense if you lived in a world as static as the Ark. They are very hung up on the letter of the law, so having an election where Pike was allowed to stand from jail and then handing over the pin to him makes sense from a legal standpoint, and they can step back and watch the chaos and feel they did the right thing even if it's wrong. This is the same rationale behind why Abby was even still Chancellor in the first place: Jaha gave it up so Kane was legally Chancellor. Kane gave it up to Abby when he went out to negotiate with the Grounders and probably die. When Kane showed up alive he should have been Chancellor again. But they were more invested in the legalities than the practicalities. They are not yet mentally at the part of the Battlestar Galactica post apocalypse where they realize that they are a "gang on a run" not a fully functioning civil government. In BSG before that point such things led to decisions like Admiral Kain being put in charge because of a meaningless rank, despite the disruption it caused to their already effective command structure. Or holding an election and putting GAIUS BALTAR?! in charge while they were still on the run for the survival of the species. By the end of the show they realized that was out the window, which is why once they landed on Earth 2 Adama was back in charge, instead of Lieutenant Hoshi, and Lee still had effective rank and authority in the last half season despite having resigned. When society is falling apart, the law is important but you can't be pedantic about it.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:36
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That was a pretty irritating plotline but it was resolved decently in the end when Finn was killed. The show has a lot of frustrating moments where characters are realistic assholes but usually the conclusions reached are decent
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Feb 17, 2016 16:38
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Sorry this is all lazy and rushed writing. This season is not working for me one bit. Season 3 of any show is usually when Goons start complaining about shows, often whether they have a real reason to or not.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:43
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Because we're supposed to accept that because of a 3 month off-screen unexplained relationship with a redshrit girlfriend he's now broken enough to compeltely throw away two seasons of character development. It's bad writing. I don't fully disagree with you, but there's more than that. Its not just his girlfriend. 37 people died in Mt Weather. He feels responsible about it because he was out in the boondocks chasing the wrong people, instead of at Mt Weather where he probably thinks he could have made a difference.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:45
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Season 3 of Arrow was bad and Season 4 is great. So by that math season 4 of the 100 will involve a war with Martians.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:52
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Dalael posted:Season 3 of any show is usually when Goons start complaining about shows, often whether they have a real reason to or not.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:06
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The Iron Rose posted:It's not like abby and kane made better decisions in season 2 either guys I'm just saying that Kane is physically capable of making a good decision. He doesn't always do that, just that he's able. Unlike other people.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:09
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The Iron Rose posted:It's not like abby and kane made better decisions in season 2 either guys I could not finish watching this. Holy poo poo. It is in fact true that if you strip all the nuance and character establishment out of a story arc it will seem really cliche and shallow. I didn't like Finn as a person, but all of that poo poo was basically set up over the course of season 1. The writers give us lots of evidence as to the type of person that Finn is and how he sees the world. Finn's used to following his impulses with no regard for consequences and winning. It should also be pointed out that on the Ark, their strictly enforced legal system wasn't based on justice or fairness or anything like that. In theory it was based on group survival, but for everyone involved it was based on following and enforcing a set of rules. Finn's crime against the grounders break none of the rules that the Skaikru is used to enforcing. They have no precedent for us vs. them, only us vs. extinction. While many of the characters recognize the wrongness of Finn's actions, this wrongness doesn't equate with him deserving legal repercussions. They come from a culture where when killing a bunch of innocent people is necessary to accomplish your goals *that's what you do*.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:29
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Snak posted:The writers give us lots of evidence as to the type of person that Finn is and how he sees the world. Finn's used to following his impulses with no regard for consequences and winning. I can't watch the video since I'm at work, but I agree with all of your post except for this part. He acted impulsively on the Ark, almost got Raven got, then was imprisoned. I don't quite consider that a win.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:11
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Johnny Truant posted:I can't watch the video since I'm at work, but I agree with all of your post except for this part. He acted impulsively on the Ark, almost got Raven got, then was imprisoned. I don't quite consider that a win. I think he's saying Finn acts on impulse and doesn't care about winning, not that he wins because of his impulsive behavior.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:20
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https://vine.co/v/iv1QhP2L9vA Aw yeah.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:39
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Johnny Truant posted:I can't watch the video since I'm at work, but I agree with all of your post except for this part. He acted impulsively on the Ark, almost got Raven got, then was imprisoned. I don't quite consider that a win. MacheteZombie posted:I think he's saying Finn acts on impulse and doesn't care about winning, not that he wins because of his impulsive behavior. No, I actually meant he's used to winning. I'm saying that while we might not consider the space-walk fiasco a win, Finn did. From Finn's perspective he tried to cheat the system, and then was able to sacrifice himself like a selfless hero. It's still all about him. When he's with Raven on the Ark and with Clarke on the ground, he doesn't even realize how selfish he's being emotionally. Finn believes he's a nice guy, and because he's willing to endure hardship for others, he might seem like one. But at the end of the day, it's about him. Finn sees his suffering and the drastic measures he takes to save Raven and find Clarke as him being a white knight. When he "finds" Clarke, he literally expects that she will be impressed that he did whatever it took to find her. Think about the origami. Each girl finds it sweet. Special. And Finn means it that way, but it's not special, it's part of his plan to be seen as a good boyfriend. He gives gifts, makes personal sacrifices, and when he meets another girl, it's on him that he loves her now instead. He doesn't consider the feelings of others, or is not even empathetic. When we first meet him, he is floating around the dropship in freefall. Despite Clarke's warnings, two other kids follow his example. At no point during his stunt to impress Clarke did he give a poo poo about those other kids. They are killed on impact. Finn is the "nice guy" who doesn't realize the consequences of his actions or how they are perceived by others. Bellamy is the "tough guy" who hasn't learned to being tough for the right reasons is much more important than being tough as a reason for action. On the Ark, Bellamy was always willing to do whatever it took to protect his sister. Now that Octavia doesn't need, and flat-out rejects, his protection, he's searching for a purpose for all his testosterone-fueled will to succeed. When he transferred it to his new girlfriend, he immediately failed. Now Pike has steered that towards protecting "their people".
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Feb 17, 2016 22:47
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Fair enough, thanks for elaborating.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:49
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Snak posted:No, I actually meant he's used to winning. I'm saying that while we might not consider the space-walk fiasco a win, Finn did. From Finn's perspective he tried to cheat the system, and then was able to sacrifice himself like a selfless hero. It's still all about him. When he's with Raven on the Ark and with Clarke on the ground, he doesn't even realize how selfish he's being emotionally. Finn believes he's a nice guy, and because he's willing to endure hardship for others, he might seem like one. But at the end of the day, it's about him. Finn sees his suffering and the drastic measures he takes to save Raven and find Clarke as him being a white knight. When he "finds" Clarke, he literally expects that she will be impressed that he did whatever it took to find her. drat yeah, made me eat my words, hah! I like your explanation, that totally makes sense. esperterra posted:https://vine.co/v/iv1QhP2L9vA 
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Feb 18, 2016 01:25
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I'm gonna laugh at all the people flipping their poo poo over that leaked 2 second clip when it turns out Lexa just tripped and fell on top of Clarke while they were both wearing strapless dresses for some incidental reason 
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Feb 18, 2016 02:33
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esperterra posted:https://vine.co/v/iv1QhP2L9vA life is good
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Feb 18, 2016 02:39
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also that clip has launched another vicious ship war and I'm just sitting back and basking in it
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Feb 18, 2016 02:46
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I was probated and couldn't post about this show for seven whole days. It was rough. I think that the dangers of learning the wrong lessons is a major theme in this show. Kane recognized that what he thought he knew about survival was wrong. We just discussed Finn and Bellamy's distorted views. A.L.I.E learned the wrong lesson from overpopulation when she decided that nuclear holocaust was the correct solution. Pike learned the wrong lesson from killing to survive. In contrast, Octavia spent her whole life not just trapped on the Ark, but hiding under the floor. She hated it the whole time, but she never let it break her spirit. Jaha is like Kane, in that he sees the error of his previous ways, but he'll learned a different lesson than Kane. Where Kane sees opportunities for redemption and a promising future, Jaha sees providence. Jasper isn't the only person that lost someone, but he did decided that this personal loss was best addressed with substance abuse. I think that something that turns people away from the show early is that they see the characters as these YA cliches. They start as these generic archetypes for a reason. The writers have been really consistently with exploring the motivations and consequences of these behaviors. Charlotte is introduced as a scared little girl for Bellamy to comfort. But she learns the wrong lesson. It's not an unreasonable lesson. This scared little girl grew up in totalitarian culture and now lives in a brave new world of terror and violence. And later we see that Bellamy had a perfectly reasonable motive for telling her to "slay her demons": He used to tell that to Octavia when she was scared. So they they do put totally cliche events right in the script, but they also put in the details that deconstruct those events. I like that the show seems very "not-preachy". It keeps showing us characters making choices, and it shows us the negetive consequences of lots of them, but it doesn't seem to be putting any characters on a pedestal as "this is the right way". It set Clarke up very early to be this character. Self-righteous about her father, claiming the moral high ground over Bellamy. But then the writers broke down this idea you can just choose to only do moral things and it's that simple. They put her in positions where she was smart enough to see that she was making the right choice but had to question everything she thought she knew about how "bad people" think and act. By the time we're in season 2, Octavia has already learned the wrong lesson about being a grounder. She thinks that being like a grounder is what solved her problems so it's "better". It's not just characters being dumb, it's humans acting as products their mindsets and their environments. I think the ultimate idea here is that the best way to protect your people is to provide them with a safe place to live and a healthy ideology. A way back in the thread I made a post about what I called "The Matriarchetype", and how the events of the show will one day be the basis of the creation mythology of a future human civilization. I think that in this myth, Clarke will be remembered as the Allmother, who performed great deeds to transform the world of war and chaos and greed into a land of peace and prosperity.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:14
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Troposphere posted:also that clip has launched another vicious ship war and I'm just sitting back and basking in it Seriously like, your kind are not welcome here. (shippers)
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Feb 18, 2016 03:27
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Ironic shippers are welcome.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:33
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Rocksicles posted:Seriously like, your kind are not welcome here. (shippers) I'm sorry my posting is not living up to the very high standards of the tviv posting forum I challenge you to one on one combat, only one survives. blood must have blood, and us shippers are a vicious sort 
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Feb 18, 2016 03:37
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I'm not convinced it's ironic 
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Feb 18, 2016 03:37
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hollylolly posted:Ironic shippers are welcome. there is nothing ironic for my deep love of seeing women kissing on each other on the television, friend
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Feb 18, 2016 03:38
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Two ships enter. One ship leaves.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:39
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Troposphere posted:there is nothing ironic for my deep love of seeing women kissing on each other on the television, friend Me either. Everyone should love pussy, it's great. Nobody cares about Bellarke or Clexa.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:42
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I am Jaha but instead of weird sketchy matrix heaven I am preaching the gospel of two dirty ladies who really need to wash their hair tenderly loving each other on your tv screen
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Feb 18, 2016 03:46
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please, Clarke. please take a bath.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:48
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Troposphere posted:please, Clarke. please take a bath. i like her dirty 
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Feb 18, 2016 04:09
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I like where this thread is going.
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Feb 18, 2016 04:58
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Snak, I appreciate your effortposts. But Bellamy's arc still bugs me. Because the way he went from bad boy stereotype to actual steadfast cool dude/leader/one of the best characters in season 2 was a big deal. Even at the start of this season he seemed like a responsible sergeant type back in the jeep scene. And now he's just being a big dumbdumb and it's sad.
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Feb 18, 2016 12:21
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