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JerryLee posted:Even that 'good' explanation would have come off as dumb and handwavey given that it came up and was resolved in the space of a single small set; you're right that it's an improvement but that's pretty faint praise (as I'm sure you realize ). Oh, absolutely. Kozilek and Ulamog should have outright won. But if you're going to have something defeat them, an entire plane is a bit more understandable than a single fire mage with help from the world's dumbest hippie, Jace "I appeal to Magic's core demographic of early-mid 20s nerdy males" Beleren, and Chad the invincible.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:25
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was a bunch of stuff about how Ugin never wanted to kill the eldrazi because it would just free them, I assume killing them will prove to have been a terrible idea in time Eh, I have a feeling they threw that story out the window and that they are simply dead.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:28
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Entropic posted:I think most people's theory was that they nerfed all the removal to make soulbond playable which turned out to be a really terrible idea. soulbond is a neat but bad mechanic, bc if removal was good then it would be incredibly swingy, and if removal is bad then board states snowball. its not good.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:29
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GeneX posted:Oh, absolutely. Kozilek and Ulamog should have outright won. Are there guys that actually like Jace?
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Feb 17, 2016 22:33
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Well they did pull their full manifestations into Zendikar, so Ugin's exact warning of it being like cutting off a hand should be less of a concern. Jace was like Ugin is way smarter than me and definitely told me not to do this, but all out of ideas so welp. Magic the gathering story chat, the darkest timeline. Sucks we didn't get sweet art of Zendikar veing inside the full titans.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:34
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Soulbond is fine as long as they don't gimp all the removal for its sake. Nobody says Slivers are a bad mechanic just because if you have removal for some Slivers then the remaining slivers get weaker.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:35
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Did anyone who wasn't around for the original slivers actually like slivers in M1whatever ?
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Feb 17, 2016 22:40
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Entropic posted:Did anyone who wasn't around for the original slivers actually like slivers in M1whatever ? I wasn't and did not like them.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:42
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Entropic posted:Did anyone who wasn't around for the original slivers actually like slivers in M1whatever ? Everyone liked every part of the new slivers except the art box.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:43
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Entropic posted:Did anyone who wasn't around for the original slivers actually like slivers in M1whatever ? New slivers were fine and the complaints always boiled down to NOT MY SLIVERS to the point where someone in this thread admitted that that was their entire reason for disliking them
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Feb 17, 2016 22:45
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Yeah, the slivers having a new look was pretty meh. I otherwise adored that they came back, even if I never played them.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:45
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Drafting with the new slivers was pretty bad because it meant you were drafting M14
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Feb 17, 2016 22:47
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the only good slivers were the 1M lords (honorable mention to sedge obv), the blue ones from stronghold, frenetic, dormant, homing and virulent.  opposition sliver was hilarious in draft tho.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:48
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Are there guys that actually like Jace? He is the most popular planeswalker, per Mark Rosewater, so yes. As for slivers: the art was terrible, but it would be cool if they returned for good.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:50
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Hive had old sliver art for some reason
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Feb 17, 2016 22:51
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Entropic posted:Did anyone who wasn't around for the original slivers actually like slivers in M1whatever ? I liked the mechanics change but the art was terrible.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:54
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I just didn't find the slivers mechanic very interesting. It was like, "this is it? People are nostalgic for a bunch of lords with ability words slapped on?"
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Feb 17, 2016 22:54
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A friend informed me of this tweet. https://twitter.com/Odin_FK/status/700043482635878401 Isn't that number kind of low? I figure it'd be an overflowing variable, but I feel that "tens of thousands" would be closer to the mark than "~600".
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Feb 17, 2016 22:54
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Serperoth posted:Isn't that number kind of low? I figure it'd be an overflowing variable, but I feel that "tens of thousands" would be closer to the mark than "~600". Such are the mysteries of modo.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:00
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Entropic posted:I just didn't find the slivers mechanic very interesting. It was like, "this is it? People are nostalgic for a bunch of lords with ability words slapped on?" Slivers are dope as hell once you start dropping a bunch, and old slivers were fun because the mirror match was a game of chicken
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Feb 17, 2016 23:02
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it's kind of hard to top dormant and frenetic sliver let's be honest.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:08
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I wouldn't be surprised if after a certain number of turns with nothing happening, mtgo goes into "something infinite must have happened" mode, like with LSV's oblivion rings. Restarting the game is the correct action at that point.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:08
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I know that they changed them in order to simplify board states, but I wish they'd kept slivers buffing both sides as it made them stand out mechanically as a tribe, especially now that all regular lords only buff your side.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:11
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cheetah7071 posted:I wouldn't be surprised if after a certain number of turns with nothing happening, mtgo goes into "something infinite must have happened" mode, like with LSV's oblivion rings. Restarting the game is the correct action at that point. Oh yeah that probably makes more sense. "If Turns >= 650 OR StuffThisTurn >= Whatever" rather than a simple overflow thing. The dude mentions crashing the game, rather than restarting, so I don't know.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:12
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I think if LLM limited was any indication it wasn't symmetrical buffing that made tribal mechanics complex. I mean, I'm all for more complex board states but they can't (or won't, whatever) just eventually GL anyone who misplays mutavault at a GP or PPTQ. Judge my opponent tried to block my stromkirk noble/boldwyr intimidator with a mutavault, etc.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:13
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Drafting with the new slivers was pretty bad because it meant you were drafting M14 Wrong. Drafting U/X control is the best part of MTG, and in M14 no one gets left out!
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Feb 17, 2016 23:14
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Entropic posted:I just didn't find the slivers mechanic very interesting. It was like, "this is it? People are nostalgic for a bunch of lords with ability words slapped on?" The M14 slivers generally had less interesting effects than the old ones. Out of the 13 colored slivers, 4 granted a flat +#/+#, and 7 granted evergreen keywords. Old slivers had stat boosts and keywords too, but they also had a bunch of weird things mixed in to make them interesting. Pay 2 life to return to your hand. Defender but draw a card on etb. The ability to sacrifice for a variety of effects. The ability to tap to deal damage to another target at the cost of also damaging themselves, so their survival depended on toughness boosts. Devoid and shroud a decade before those keywords existed. Slivercycling. That one coin-flip sliver.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:17
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I mean before time spiral block slivers basically mostly granted keyword/static abilities. Ironic that time spiral had the most boring WUBRG legendary out of them all for having the craziest abilities.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:21
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Zoness posted:I think if LLM limited was any indication it wasn't symmetrical buffing that made tribal mechanics complex. I mean, I'm all for more complex board states but they can't (or won't, whatever) just eventually GL anyone who misplays mutavault at a GP or PPTQ. That's basically the easiest thing to remember ever, because rather than having to check the individual creature type you just know that if something interacts with a creature type, it interacts with mutavault. Now, if someone casts something that destroys all Shamans and you have to remember that some random elf (that you've only ever cared about the fact that it was an elf) is actually an Elf Shaman, that's a bit trickier, I guess? But ultimately what it comes down to is that people  ing that they have to keep track of variables in a wizard game is never going to stop being a mixture of hilarious and sad.Zoness posted:I mean before time spiral block slivers basically mostly granted keyword/static abilities. Yes and no? I mean, Acidic, Victual, Mnemonic and Mindwhip were all in Tempest block and I'm pretty sure there are examples from the Onslaught block return as well (Magma?) so it's not that simple. Though TSP definitely dug deeper into the zaniness well. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 23:25
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It's almost as if Core Sets were less complicated than The Complicated Set.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:29
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Modern is basically unplayable right now unless you are playing Eldrazi. Knowing that this isn't going to get fixed till April is annoying as gently caress. By all accounts, they are doubling down on not emergency banning it. How loving boring.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:29
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Zoness posted:I mean before time spiral block slivers basically mostly granted keyword/static abilities.      Even before Time Spiral they had some neat effects. They weren't just standard lord effects like +1/+1 and haste, though those were obviously in there too. In M14, they're just static p/t buffs and evergreen keywords.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:29
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Sickening posted:Modern is basically unplayable right now unless you are playing Eldrazi. Knowing that this isn't going to get fixed till April is annoying as gently caress. By all accounts, they are doubling down on not emergency banning it. Don't worry I'm sure someone is willing to sell you a $30 card that supposedly beats Eldrazi but actually doesn't.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:31
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Sickening posted:Modern is basically unplayable right now unless you are playing Eldrazi. Knowing that this isn't going to get fixed till April is annoying as gently caress. By all accounts, they are doubling down on not emergency banning it. It's fun to play a completely broken deck for a few months... It's not like Modern was all that great before Eldrazi was a thing.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:32
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Lottery of Babylon posted:
These look really awesome and sometimes I understand why people miss the old frame. Mainly the blue frame because it is sickkkk.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:33
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Hibernation was one I forgot, though really Crystalline is just shroud. To be fair, if you've decided that you need to remake slivers as predator aliens that don't set off people's symmetrical mechanic triggers, it does reasonably follow that you're going to want to remake the +1/+1, flying, vigilance etc. staple slivers. They could have had some interesting ones too, but remaking Muscle Sliver isn't wrong if that's the premise you're starting with, even if the premise itself is faulty.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:34
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mcmagic posted:It's fun to play a completely broken deck for a few months... It's not like Modern was all that great before Eldrazi was a thing. What an incredibly dumb thing to say.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:34
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All of those are from expert-level sets.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:35
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Lottery of Babylon posted:
mistform was a block mechanic, crystalline is just shroud Stronghold did put some cool abilities on MN slivers but iirc only crystalline and hibernation were particularly strong out of those. I'm probably mostly biased because I played a lot more time spiral limited than tempest block (none at all) or onslaught block (when i started playing) and also because wild pair slivers was a rad time spiral block deck and slivers won a time spiral block 2hg draft pro tour.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:35
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Didn't M15 slivers start in design as another creature type and then someone realized that they were basically reinventing slivers, so why not just switch them over? I thought I read that somewhere, but can't recall exactly.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:45
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