|
 1996 - The N64 is here at last, and Super Mario 64 has taken the world by storm. The 3D revolution is in full swing, which makes it the perfect time to...release a 2D sidescroller on a legacy system? Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble is a bit of an odd duck in the series, for a number of reasons. Even ignoring the somewhat questionable release timing, DKC3 still has to contend with a lot of legitimate design problems. After all, how do you follow up one of the best platformers ever made? Well, Rare's answer (as it tended to be later in their life) was more. More worlds (a full 8 instead of the 7.5-ish of DKC2), a full overworld, more collectables, more bonus types, and most importantly, more gimmicks. And that's the big sticking point a lot of people have with this game - unlike how DKC2 had very general platforming gimmicks (barrel cannons, wind, etc), DKC3 goes all in on level-specific gimmicks. This means that a level's quality is often directly tied to the quality of its gimmick and...well...suffice to say there are some really bad gimmicks in this game. And you know what? gently caress that noise. DKC3 has always been my personal favorite of the original trilogy. Maybe it's because I could actually beat it as a kid, unlike DKC2. Maybe it's a healthy dose of nostalgia, combined with the level gimmicks making them more memorable. It's not wrong to say that DKC2 is better in just about every objective measure, but I know which game I liked better as a kid, and I hope this playthrough means as much to you as it does to me.  Lake Orangatanga
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:49 |
|
|
Artix posted:And you know what? gently caress that noise. Hell yeah.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
I forgot about the Koins. They're not a bad idea, but I prefer the DK coins actually being hidden rather than being behind mini puzzles (and I use the term "puzzle" very loosely). Like in Castle Crush where you have to become Rambi, then turn into Squawks and race the floor to get to the DK coin. Or Krockhead Klamber where you have to go to the left at the beginning of the level. They made the coins much easier to hide and much more rewarding for finding. They just needed a good idea for a hiding spot. Here, they need a solid floor, a solid wall, and a barrel, which greatly limits where they can go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2016 22:42
|
|
|
Kiddy's water-skipping ability is never technically required to get anything important, but several bonus areas clearly intend you to use that ability. For instance, it's possible to reach the second bonus area in Tidal Trouble by making a pixel-perfect roll-jump/glide off the platform. (I found this out as a child because I couldn't consistently achieve the timing necessary to skip off water.) ^^A few of the Koin puzzles don't use a wall but instead involve creative uses of the barrel carrying/throwing mechanics. Generally it involves the fact that a barrels can roll at different speeds depending on whether it's thrown forward, thrown upward, or dropped from a ledge/slope.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Artix posted:And you know what? gently caress that noise. As someone who never played DKC2, this game is my personal favorite and a drat nice upgrade over the original DKC.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2016 23:00
|
|
|
While I consider this game to be generally a weaker entry in the series than its predecessor, I can't give enough praise for that introductory level. The song, the enemy layout, the way the level's put together, and so on are all well-designed to provide a stress-free playground to learn all of the game's basic mechanics. It's a great example of learning by doing. Take that cracked section of boat above the bonus game barrel for instance. If the barrel wasn't there, the player could have easily just run past the cracked floor and not thought too much of it. But the fact that the barrel is there forces the player to learn how the buddy throwing mechanics work. This game has its weak points, but its approach to teaching the player isn't one of them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
Also, since we did bring it up, the GBA soundtrack is completely redone and it...well, you might have seen me putting out some hot takes a few months back but long story short I don't really like it. Nevertheless, for your listening pleasure, most of the songs we've encountered thus far are here in both their original SNES format and David Wise's GBA one. Lake Orangatanga Northern Kremisphere (Overworld) - SNES / GBA Stilt Village - SNES / GBA Bonus Time! - SNES / GBA Mill Fever - SNES / GBA Frosty Frolics - SNES / GBA Boss Boogie - SNES / GBA Kremwood Forest Treetop Tumble - SNES / GBA Hot Pursuit - SNES / GBA Enchanted Riverbank - SNES / GBA Cotton-Top Cove Water World - SNES / GBA Cascade Capers - SNES / GBA Mekanos Nuts and Bolts - SNES / GBA Pokey Pipes - SNES / GBA K3 Rockface Rumble - SNES / GBA Razor Ridge Cavern Caprice - SNES / GBA Kaos Kore Jungle Jitter - SNES / GBA* Krematoa Rocket Run - SNES / GBA** *The GBA version of Jungle Jitter literally has like, 50 seconds of assorted background noise at the start of the song (which you can hear right before it cuts to loop) so I found a version with it cut out. You're welcome. **There are a couple songs that just flat out aren't on the GBA OST, like Crazy Calypso (the music that plays on the file select screen), Jangle Bells (a song that replaces the bonus theme if you put in the code "MERRY" at the name select screen), and yes, Rocket Run. The SNES version has a unique song just for that level, but they reused the "autoscroller" music for it in the GBA version. Artix fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
omg i haven't heard the normal bonus music in so long that was surreal But yeah DKC3 starts off really strong! The world map is really rad! Like, abstracted floating heads in the first two games weren't bad but the Northern Kremisphere feels way more engaging because you can actually explore and there are things to do (to a degree) and it's like, animated (kind of) instead of being a blurry prerendered background. It's sorta the difference between Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island and I dig it a lot.The flagpoles work better than the floating heads, and that they're based on your level completion is cool. And as fun as Diddy/Dixie is, I like that the Kongs function differently again even if through Kiddy. And although this will not become a trend, Belcha's a cool boss Koin though, he's a neat idea but the developers had to come up with like forty variations on a theme and it's apparent that they gave up pretty quickly. Same with the green banana bonuses, it just kinda gets old and that feeling of randomness doesn't help. And Ellie sucks imo Also I'm sad you aren't using the COLOR and MERRY codes stop me from talking about donkey kong before i become bonzibuddy Looper fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Feb 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
My rankings: DKC2 > DKC3 > DKC As I said, DKC3 has a lot of well-done gimmicks. In fact, most of them are well-done, and there are a couple in particular that I really like. It's just people don't remember a few of them fondly, and rightfully so, because those levels are total bullshit. But you don't see them for a long time, so the game is a very enjoyable experience up until the end. I prefer finding the DK Coins than having to beat an enemy for them. As you'll see, there's only so much you can do with steel barrel puzzles before they start to get repetitive. And they don't even roll through enemies like they did in DKC, plus you can't jump on them and ride. I like Belcha. He's like Crocomire, except he burps. They also did that boss in Yoshi's Island with Roger the Potted Ghost. By and large, though, bosses aren't this game's strong point. There's a lot more going on with them than in DKC and DKC2, but for some of them, that's not a good thing. Once again, the end of the game is where things get dicey. I think Kiddie is pretty cool, actually. He controls much better than DK did in the original DKC, and his roll is less awkward. It gives the team-up throw a new dimension as well. Bonus trivia: according to the DK64 instruction booklet, Chunky Kong is Kiddie's older brother. get that OUT of my face fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
Oh no, you missed a g! Do you have to get the kong letters in all the levels in this one?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
Grapplejack posted:Oh no, you missed a g! Do you have to get the kong letters in all the levels in this one? Nope, that's only in Retro's games. Bonus coins and DK coins are what matter in this one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 01:55
|
|
|
You absolutely can ride in the steel barrels in this game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Ometeotl posted:You absolutely can ride in the steel barrels in this game. For a farewell to the SNES, Rare definitely delivered a solid game, with Lake Orangutanga being a great opener. It teaches the player almost everything about the game, introduces the player to Brothers Bear and the revisions to the rest of the Kong family (with Swanky/Cranky also stealth-teaching the player how to deal with a later boss), and does not overstay its welcome. The problem is that the game peaks early and then begins a slow dive into repetition and tedium, with later worlds having to resort to gimmicks that are reused but framed differently or are a straight-up pain in the rear end to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 02:33
|
|
|
Shei-kun posted:So I just realized that each Kong has a unique part of them that has color in the silhouette levels. They were commenting on it in one of the early videos. Personally I think it's what really makes the silhouette levels; without it they'd be sort of interesting but that little extra bit of color (and at least one level did a couple tricks with lighting and removing the silhouette aesthetic) takes it to the next level.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 03:11
|
|
|
Y-Hat posted:And they don't even roll through enemies like they did in DKC, plus you can't jump on them and ride. A) They do in fact go through enemies, they just stop on certain ones (like Koin) and B) I don't know where you came up with that, but you can ride more than just steel barrels.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 03:15
|
|
|
Kiddy is different from DK in one vitally important way: Kiddy holds barrels in front, while Donkey and Dixie hold them overhead. In fact, the playable Kong rotation has always alternated barrel positions for maximum barrel strats, especially when it comes to Koins and boss fights.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 03:16
|
|
|
Artix posted:A) They do in fact go through enemies, they just stop on certain ones (like Koin) and B) I don't know where you came up with that, but you can ride more than just steel barrels.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
Artix posted:And you know what? gently caress that noise. 0/5 unbookmarking thread now. Jokes aside, good luck. I'm still horrified at myself for how that run the other week turned out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 05:14
|
|
|
Artix posted:Also, since we did bring it up, the GBA soundtrack is completely redone and it...well, you might have seen me putting out some hot takes a few months back but long story short I don't really like it. Nevertheless, for your listening pleasure, most of the songs we've encountered thus far are here in both their original SNES format and David Wise's GBA one. Oh my god the digitized yodeling in the GBA Frosty Frolics I kinda dig it
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Monkey Fracas posted:Oh my god the digitized yodeling in the GBA Frosty Frolics The Stilt Village one is definitely the best so far, IMO. It sounds like something that would've been in 1 or 2.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
After watching the first vid (of DKC3), I can say I honestly don't remember as much of it as I thought I did. I remember the banana birds and bear brother bartering were a pain in the rear end, but I completely forgot about the boss, Belcha, and even gimmicky stages like Elly being afraid of mice. This is pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
Dixie can actually slide right under the Ellly barrel and completely ignore the gimmick.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
Belcha looks utterly trivial and the co commenter thought so as well, but he's deceptively well designed. It's a trick to bounce on the beetle ONLY twice so you can throw it and not three times and lose the beetle. An easy trick for someone who has played through the entirety of DKC and DKC2 but for a new player (like I was in fifth grade) you'll keep failing at the beetle while Belcha advances. And it's an interesting situation for a new player and especially interesting for a game where you'd die in one hit. You're tested on pulling off a maneuver but you have more chances to fail than usual, while still being in danger. I kind of think DKC3 has the best bosses of the DKC SNES games. Well there's not much competition with DKC's giant sprites sliding around that you jump on. DKC2, though, is more debatable. DKC3's bosses felt more designed in general, despite some issues with some of them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 23:22
|
|
|
I really need to play through DKC3 one of these days. I've only ever played like half of the game at a friend's house before the map befuddled our dumb child brains or something
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 23:27
|
|
|
Digital Jello posted:even gimmicky stages like Elly being afraid of mice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 03:00
|
|
|
I remember playing DKC 3 a lot, but not remembering the levels that well. Seeing the banana birds brings back my dislike for the simon gimmick though. I think I definitely enjoyed this game as a kid, but I tried to fully complete it and got a bit frustrated by it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 03:37
|
|
|
I guess you can create a save state on the Wii U when you enter a Banana Bird cave but before the Simon puzzle actually begins, which would make them a complete joke.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 04:44
|
|
|
 And we're done! Thanks all for watching my muddling through DKCR and there should be something else coming up soonish to take over my Friday block so look forward to that! ChaosArgate fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Feb 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Oranges hurt DK? Does that make him a scurvy dog? I'll show myself out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
That is an incredibly underwhelming reward for the K levels.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
I never had enough devotion to finish the K levels and unlock the Golden Temple, but after seeing it, the stage really makes me hungry. And yeah, I'm a little disappointed that it's only a single stage; not even a bizarre bonus boss fight or anything.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
Rabbi Raccoon posted:That is an incredibly underwhelming reward for the K levels. Had ChaosArgate got all the puzzle pieces, it would have shown a bunch of concept art for many K levels that could have been included, including a Banana Pudding river level and a level that looks like it could be on the Virtual Boy. It was like they had an entire extra world planned out but they only did one level in the end. Which is kind of a shame.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
If I had a 3DS capture device and DKCR3D, I'd have shown off the 3DS exclusive World 9, which probably has those concepts, but actually fleshed out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
At least Tropical Freeze had a fully fleshed out K-world.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
Alkydere posted:At least Tropical Freeze had a fully fleshed out K-world. Let's...not say anything we can't take back. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 18:20
|
|
|
Artix posted:Let's...not say anything we can't take back. Okay, half a K-world. Still better than the one single level DKCR got.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
That was such a hilariously weaksauce level.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
The mirror mechanic would probably be more interesting if you had to go through the levels from end to start instead of just flipping it
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
Nah, a lot of levels that's not possible, there'd have to be a lot of designing and at that point why not make some more levels instead? Replying the same levels in perfect runs for completion percentage just seems kind of lame, especially as a "reward". At least with rare, the percentage completion was tied to finding all the hidden items instead of just replaying the stage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:49 |
|
|
Acne Rain posted:Nah, a lot of levels that's not possible, there'd have to be a lot of designing and at that point why not make some more levels instead? Yeah, Retro kinda phoned it in with these. In my opinion, it's sorta the same thing as with the more recent Mario games where your rewards for completing the main game are just harder versions of previous stages. Or in 3D Land's case, the entire second half of the game. Oh, and you have to go beat the first eight worlds over again as Luigi if you want to get to that last level. It's like, "Really? My only reward is a bunch of harder and usually much more tedious poo poo that I'm only doing for bragging rights?" Derek Barona fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 20:01
|
|