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Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

Vib Rib posted:

All right, I guess if I have to mix and match manually I will.

While I'm at it, and at the risk of being redundant, what mods are you guys using to increase Squad Size and pod size? I've seen a bunch of competing mods that do basically the same thing but each one is flooded with "this broke my game" comments and with all the people doing playthroughs with more pieces on the board I just wondered what the goon recommended versions are.

I went through and manually increased pod sizes in DefaultMissions.ini. In entries like

ConfigurableEncounters=(EncounterID="ADVx3_Standard", \\
MaxSpawnCount=4, \\
LeaderInclusionExclusionCharacterTypes="AdventGlobal", \\
FollowerInclusionExclusionCharacterTypes="AdventGlobal")

I edited the MaxSpawnCount from 3 to 4. Did the same for every other MaxSpawnCount entry. Bigger pod sizes definitely make the game more tense and I highly recommend doing so. You also get slightly more corpses for slightly more supplies off the market, so theres that I guess.

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toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Kooriken posted:

Has anyone taken Saturation Fire on their Grenadier? If so, is it good/better than Rupture? I've picked Rupture every time because it's just so dang good for murdering highly armored jerks that I've never given SF a go.

On that note, is Saturation Fire affected by soldier aim? Wondering whether to put it on my gunner-grenadier or grenadier-rear end-grenadier.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Not a Step posted:

I went through and manually increased pod sizes in DefaultMissions.ini. In entries like

ConfigurableEncounters=(EncounterID="ADVx3_Standard", \\
MaxSpawnCount=4, \\
LeaderInclusionExclusionCharacterTypes="AdventGlobal", \\
FollowerInclusionExclusionCharacterTypes="AdventGlobal")

I edited the MaxSpawnCount from 3 to 4. Did the same for every other MaxSpawnCount entry. Bigger pod sizes definitely make the game more tense and I highly recommend doing so. You also get slightly more corpses for slightly more supplies off the market, so theres that I guess.
Thanks! I'm taking a look at it now and I think bumping up the enemy count by 1 in almost all situations might be the way to go.

Actually I think I've had a bit of insight. It appears that there are two kinds of pods in this game. The majority of defined pods have predefined contents (used often in missions, like the endgame pods, or in specific points like dark events with faceless, and lots of story mission instances). However the kind you usually run into come from a much smaller category: those that pull from pools. They just define how many enemies, what their relative strength is (weaker/even/stronger than the player) and what pool they pick their constituents from. And there's only like, six pools. Basically you have Open (anything), Advent only, Not bosses, Not terror mission, Not terror or bosses, and Bosses. I think if I just change everything that pulls from "not terror" and "not terror or bosses" to "open" and "not bosses" respectively, I can integrate Berserkers and Chryssalids into standard pods.
And if I add Vipers and Sectoids to Advent pods, I'll get to see more of them, too.

Archons, Mutons, and Andromedons and I might leave as they are. They seem common enough. Though if I'm really feeling sadistic I might alter the bosses pool to include Avatars.
:getin:

Here's hoping I've understood this properly!

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011

---

Vib Rib posted:

And if I add Vipers and Sectoids to Advent pods, I'll get to see more of them, too.

You understood the structure correctly. Why would you want more sectoids though?

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
Some people have said that sectoids are too rare after the early game but that's not my experience. I just did the blacksite mission on legend and I think I killed 8 of those fuckers.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Count Uvula posted:

You understood the structure correctly. Why would you want more sectoids though?
I feel like they fell off heavily after the start. Maybe I just had a lucky campaign?
I'm not alone in thinking Vipers were brief though, right?

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007

Vib Rib posted:

I feel like they fell off heavily after the start. Maybe I just had a lucky campaign?
I'm not alone in thinking Vipers were brief though, right?

It's pretty random. I've had two very different experiences in two Veteran campaigns in terms of enemies I get.

Trast
Oct 20, 2010

Three games, thousands of playthroughs. 90% of the players don't know I exist. Still a redhead saving the galaxy with a [Right Hook].

:edi:

Pumpkinreaper posted:

It's a goon made mod on the nexus called ayy lmao. It alters a fair amount of names and text, though your YMMV on whether you like it or not.

I still giggle whenever I use a flashbang and see "read a jaden smith tweet" pop up.


edit: Also the screenshot I posted had the Lowtax someone made, miss 3-4 80% shots, getting better soldiers killed and then panicked himself. I don't know if he actually killed anything, but he did get a couple of good shots in.

That jaden tweet thing is god damned amazing and I am still laughing a minute after I read it.

CardTech
Nov 11, 2009

Baseball bro'ing at a super-high level

Not a Step posted:

I went through and manually increased pod sizes in DefaultMissions.ini. In entries like

ConfigurableEncounters=(EncounterID="ADVx3_Standard", \\
MaxSpawnCount=4, \\
LeaderInclusionExclusionCharacterTypes="AdventGlobal", \\
FollowerInclusionExclusionCharacterTypes="AdventGlobal")

I edited the MaxSpawnCount from 3 to 4. Did the same for every other MaxSpawnCount entry. Bigger pod sizes definitely make the game more tense and I highly recommend doing so. You also get slightly more corpses for slightly more supplies off the market, so theres that I guess.

I did this with my current commander right. Downloaded the mod to bump up the squad size to 8, then went through and added 3 mobs to every pod. It's been an absolute blast, and it's extremely entertaining with some of the situations that can happen with that many enemies.

RoboCicero
Oct 22, 2009

"I'm sick and tired of reading these posts!"
Man, having the Shadow Chamber research pause real research is such a drag since by doing so you effectively pause all your other tech progress. It really should be in addition to it so you don't have to choose between sweet-rear end plasma weapons or another 9 days for them to figure out that the body in the suit is the alien equivalent of a blank form letter.

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?
Grimey Drawer
If I want to make a simple mod such as having the line-of-sight indicator also give an indication of when you have a flank, what would I go looking for? Can I change the color directly from a file or would I need to make it in Photoshop?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

CardTech posted:

I did this with my current commander right. Downloaded the mod to bump up the squad size to 8, then went through and added 3 mobs to every pod. It's been an absolute blast, and it's extremely entertaining with some of the situations that can happen with that many enemies.
So did you just search-replace "podsize=5" to "podsize=8" and go down from there? I'm thinking that's the best method but I wasn't sure how many to add, or if bumping up squadsize=1 pods would have some sort of catastrophic consequence.

3 seems like a lot though, especially since you're basically increasing most pod sizes by x2 (or more) but only increasing your squad by 1.5x at most. Did you bump the difficulty down, or how are you handling it?

LCN
Jul 27, 2009
This may or may not have been said already, but do the Avatars start showing up after a certain research / mission? A single one wiped my legendary run, and I want to postpone meeting them in the next run if possible.

edit: Or is it just skullmining a Codex that I should avoid next time?

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.
It only happens when you stab someone's brains.

Generation Internet
Jan 18, 2009

Where angels and generals fear to tread.

LCN posted:

edit: Or is it just skullmining a Codex that I should avoid next time?

Pretty sure it's only this thing, so you can choose when to have that fight.

CardTech
Nov 11, 2009

Baseball bro'ing at a super-high level

Vib Rib posted:

So did you just search-replace "podsize=5" to "podsize=8" and go down from there? I'm thinking that's the best method but I wasn't sure how many to add, or if bumping up squadsize=1 pods would have some sort of catastrophic consequence.

3 seems like a lot though, especially since you're basically increasing most pod sizes by x2 (or more) but only increasing your squad by 1.5x at most. Did you bump the difficulty down, or how are you handling it?

For the most part, that's almost exactly what I did. Certain pod make-ups I only bumped by maybe 2 or so depending on what they contained.

I'm only maybe halfway into it, and so far it's been challenging but for the most part it hasn't been anything super ridiculous outside of a few instances (popping multiple pods a chaotic mess, and running into a 5-beserker pod twice on a terror mission was a bit much). It's definitely not balanced or anything, but I've been having fun messing around with it and going through it.

I also downloaded the mod that pauses the time limit on timed missions until your squad is revealed. So far it's seemed like a fair bump to account for the larger sizes.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

Vargs posted:

You're right that the game ends up moving in this direction, but I dunno if that's necessarily a terrible thing. It's still fun to figure out how to immediately eliminate/incapacitate everything on the screen with your big box of tools, and every now and then something goes wrong to throw a big wrench in it.

to me it makes way more sense - you're up against what should be superior firepower all the time. its reasonable that your elite squad of supermen should be all about Kill And Run as opposed to longer drawn out fights

EW and especially long war was a lot more like this and it also made sense - in that you're fighting a defensive war, not waging terrorism

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

toasterwarrior posted:

On that note, is Saturation Fire affected by soldier aim? Wondering whether to put it on my gunner-grenadier or grenadier-rear end-grenadier.

never take it over rupture

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.
IMO Archons should not get dodge on top of their insane defense & HP.

Magni
Apr 29, 2009
Welp, getting close to the end of my Commander run. Next up, Ironman Legendary. With the Goonpool and starting pool mechanics.

Who will survive? :unsmigghh:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

toasterwarrior posted:

On that note, is Saturation Fire affected by soldier aim? Wondering whether to put it on my gunner-grenadier or grenadier-rear end-grenadier.
It sorta does the job of shooting away cover but the description says you only take a standard shot against enemies in the cone. So yes. Also sometimes it bugs out and sets a fire off beside your grenadier who just fired it.

Rupture is definitely more attractive unless they can fix the above, plus the fact a grenade is guaranteed damage (grenades grenades grenades) and you're very unlikely to have your enemies lined up for you (the cone is really small) whereas the radius of a grenade generally will do the same trick either way and is probably more reliable at cover destruction.

Dinictus
Nov 26, 2005

May our CoX spray white sticky fluid at our enemies forever!
HAIL ARACHNOS!
Soiled Meat

Magni posted:

Welp, getting close to the end of my Commander run. Next up, Ironman Legendary. With the Goonpool and starting pool mechanics.

Who will survive? :unsmigghh:

The scientists and engineers that end up in the goon pool :v:

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

Megasabin posted:

The further I get in the game, the more I think the inherent gameplay has major flaws. This is supposed to be a tactical strategy game that simulates small squad combat. I think the alluring part of the gameplay in these types of games is two fold: 1. Using tactics during gunfights to outmaneuver and outsmart your opponents & 2. Enjoying the chaos of the situation as the fights play out.

When you begin to understand how to play Xcom-2 optimally neither 1. nor 2. will ever happen again. Both your own soldiers and the aliens do so much damage in this game, that the optimal way to play is to never let them have a turn. If you let the enemy fire on you, there are going to be dire consequences-- not only do the enemies in this game position well enough/crit often enough that you will outright lose soliders, but literally any damage dealt to your troops results in hospital stays that are potentially cripplingly long. These hospital stays can result in you taking less experienced troops with you next mission, which gives the aliens more opportunities to fire on you, and the pattern repeats.

Preventing this relies on never letting the aliens get a shot off. This actually becomes quite easy to accomplish around mid-game with the tools you are given, provided you are dealing with a single pod. Given that caveat the entire game because managing pod aggro. The focus of every mission becomes engaging only 1 pod at a time, and killing it immediately. Timers are there to try and prevent you from doing this, but it's still very doable, given that most of the timers will account for at least 1 turn per pod, and are generally far more generous than that.

The game essentially becomes a series of puzzles about 1 shotting the opponent, rather than a game that organically simulates interesting firefights. Longer back and forth battles with changing tides/tactics should be the highlight of the game, but it's just not fun to exchange fire, because the penalties for getting hit are so dire. Luckily the engine itself is excellent, so perhaps someone can make a game with adjusted damage.

Totally agree. The free move for discovered pods is still a stupid as gently caress mechanic that warps the entire game to favor a style of gameplay that is really boring and exploity, which they tried to combat by slapping timers on top like a band-aid made of poo poo. The fact that everything also deals ludicrous damage, both player and aliens compounds that issue even more.

If it wasn't for mind control and hacking being basically guaranteed in the late game I wouldn't have even seen half the enemies doing their abilities because they never got a single shot off. I've never seen an enemy gatekeeper or sectopod do anything - I only know what they can do because I MCed/hacked them and that's just a super sad state for a game. They made all these cool animations and abilities but the game is built so you never see them used unless you take control of the enemy.

Oh yeah and the UI is poo poo - holy crap is the XCOM2 UI amateur hour as gently caress especially considering the massive budget they have (no clear indicators which abilities end turns, how many actions they take, there detailed enemy ability/stat breakdown is gone, etc.).

Sober posted:

It sorta does the job of shooting away cover but the description says you only take a standard shot against enemies in the cone. So yes. Also sometimes it bugs out and sets a fire off beside your grenadier who just fired it.

Rupture is definitely more attractive unless they can fix the above, plus the fact a grenade is guaranteed damage (grenades grenades grenades) and you're very unlikely to have your enemies lined up for you (the cone is really small) whereas the radius of a grenade generally will do the same trick either way and is probably more reliable at cover destruction.

The big difference is that Saturation Fire won't destroy loot and that it applies your ammo effects/possibly even repeater procs. It's the more risky, less powerful economical version of killing a group.

DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Feb 18, 2016

Sulphagnist
Oct 10, 2006

WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

Sober posted:

It sorta does the job of shooting away cover but the description says you only take a standard shot against enemies in the cone. So yes. Also sometimes it bugs out and sets a fire off beside your grenadier who just fired it.

Rupture is definitely more attractive unless they can fix the above, plus the fact a grenade is guaranteed damage (grenades grenades grenades) and you're very unlikely to have your enemies lined up for you (the cone is really small) whereas the radius of a grenade generally will do the same trick either way and is probably more reliable at cover destruction.

And you'll have other tools for dealing with lined up enemies, like Null Lance or the gently caress You Cannon (I think it's called Shredder Cannon in-game).

Jintor
May 19, 2014

oh god sober i forgot you post here too

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?
Grimey Drawer

DatonKallandor posted:

Totally agree. The free move for discovered pods is still a stupid as gently caress mechanic that warps the entire game to favor a style of gameplay that is really boring and exploity, which they tried to combat by slapping timers on top like a band-aid made of poo poo. The fact that everything also deals ludicrous damage, both player and aliens compounds that issue even more.
So you don't get that the "free" move the aliens get is to allow them a fighting chance or just face being shot down by your squad? I mean, I guess you could set up your squad to overwatch them, but overwatch has penalty to hit too, and the big difference is that your guys are already in cover. You might as well argue that units shouldn't be able to use cover and just have the game be a matter of shooting guys quickly with no strategy.

DatonKallandor posted:

Oh yeah and the UI is poo poo - holy crap is the XCOM2 UI amateur hour as gently caress especially considering the massive budget they have (no clear indicators which abilities end turns, how many actions they take, there detailed enemy ability/stat breakdown is gone, etc.).
I'm sorry, massive budget? Where was it said they had a massive budget?

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011

---

Mordaedil posted:

So you don't get that the "free" move the aliens get is to allow them a fighting chance or just face being shot down by your squad? I mean, I guess you could set up your squad to overwatch them, but overwatch has penalty to hit too, and the big difference is that your guys are already in cover. You might as well argue that units shouldn't be able to use cover and just have the game be a matter of shooting guys quickly with no strategy.

Concealed overwatch actually has no penalty.

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?
Grimey Drawer

Count Uvula posted:

Concealed overwatch actually has no penalty.

I know.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Sober posted:

It sorta does the job of shooting away cover but the description says you only take a standard shot against enemies in the cone. So yes. Also sometimes it bugs out and sets a fire off beside your grenadier who just fired it.

Rupture is definitely more attractive unless they can fix the above, plus the fact a grenade is guaranteed damage (grenades grenades grenades) and you're very unlikely to have your enemies lined up for you (the cone is really small) whereas the radius of a grenade generally will do the same trick either way and is probably more reliable at cover destruction.

Thanks for the answer! I'll be packing two Demolition Grenadiers with Rupture already so I figured I might as well give the Gunner Grenadier Saturation Fire for variety's sake, and since he'll be a priority recipient for aim boosters I thought an AoE skill that uses shooting would be a good fit.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

DatonKallandor posted:

no clear indicators which abilities end turns.


There actually is, there's a small right facing arrow on the uh, right side of the main bar when selecting an ability.

Look right above the crit percentage. If that arrow is there the ability will end your turn, as hovering over that arrow will indicate

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013

Yes we should go back to the good old days of throwing rookies at doors so they eat reaction fire while the experienced members shoot down the standing aliens.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

DatonKallandor posted:

no clear indicators which abilities end turns
There's a >| icon on your readout if an action will end your turn. Mousing over it says as much.

Jintor
May 19, 2014

the UI elements are present but they don't really ever grab you by the collar and go "OKAY LET ME EXPLAIN THE UI TO YOU"

it took me ages to remember I can just mouseover the reload to see if it says "Free reload" to see if my autoloader was attached or not

Bholder posted:

Yes we should go back to the good old days of throwing rookies at doors so they eat reaction fire while the experienced members shoot down the standing aliens.

honestly I kinda want to see that. maybe someone will mod that in.

also mars.

want to go to mars.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
Sorry to go all "Idea guy" on the thread but, was spitballing ideas at Robzilla as to how to make the Berserkers feel like a slightly more credible threat without making them break you over their knee (Berserkers really disappointed me. :( ). Kill an Andromedon while doing so and it hits me.

When Beserkers die, they "erupt" in a flashbang-like effect. Going with the idea that the suit's drug pumping systems have a non-lethal failsafe. Considering their running range, this should add more presence to them without increasing their survivability.
In my mind they are "sturdier stunlancers" who trade a gun for increased health and the risk of going apeshit. Adding anymore survival tools or damage (they can knock people out!) to them would be horseshit.

Hey, I don't have coding talent for poo poo, but could someone do that, plus make a lategame Viper (called a Cobra E: Cobra Commander of course.) and possibly a few others so that we get more variation post-august?

From a few pages back;

FraudulentEconomics posted:

Are you totally against things that pull your soldiers out for X amount of days? My specializations mod was going to use similar mechanics to that (Get extra useful ability, lose soldier for 5 days). Is it just that the time is so drat long or what?

The officer class has the "limited to one, and cant play with other officers" restriction, that ontop of a 8 day sitout timer is the frustrating part for me. 4 days would be better.

Waiting is fine. Limited deployment is fine. Both is irksome.

Thyrork fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Feb 18, 2016

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
The final tier for Officers takes 16 days of training! Granted, the final perk is powerful (+1 damage to all attacks made by dudes in your command range, the other choice is poo poo), but still!

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
s

toasterwarrior posted:

The final tier for Officers takes 16 days of training! Granted, the final perk is powerful (+1 damage to all attacks made by dudes in your command range, the other choice is poo poo), but still!

Super irritating when my best sniper (and also self insert) was out of commission for the base defense because of that!

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss

🍖🍖😛🍖🍖
So I'm not 100% on how the character pool works since I haven't really used it yet.

If you specify someone as a class, say, Grenadier, do they only show up as that class? If I recruit rookies and see that person, do I know they're going to become a grenadier? Or do they not even show up unless a post-rookie Grenadier is already up for purchase/available as a mission reward?
I just want everyone I'm making to show up in the pool. Should I specify them as rookies or what?

emTme3
Nov 7, 2012

by Hand Knit
.

emTme3 fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Mar 31, 2022

-Dethstryk-
Oct 20, 2000

Vib Rib posted:

So I'm not 100% on how the character pool works since I haven't really used it yet.

If you specify someone as a class, say, Grenadier, do they only show up as that class? If I recruit rookies and see that person, do I know they're going to become a grenadier? Or do they not even show up unless a post-rookie Grenadier is already up for purchase/available as a mission reward?
I just want everyone I'm making to show up in the pool. Should I specify them as rookies or what?

I think specifying the class just sets their class if they are going to show up as an already leveled soldier, otherwise they show up as a rookie. I saved a sniper from one of my games and they showed up as a rookie, despite being selected as a sniper specifically.

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I don't think I'd like a version of XCOM 2 where soldier and alien health is cranked up so that firefights last longer just because everything can take more damage. The range of things that can happen in an individual engagement isn't wide enough to avoid that kind of gameplay becoming tedious. The more "realistic" way to handle that would be to make shots just miss more often on both sides, but that would be equally frustrating, if not more frustrating (and make grenades even more important, unless they can also veer wildly off-course).

Just casually thinking about it, I think the difficulty tweaks I'd personally enjoy the most would be:
  • Larger pod sizes (already available, hooray!).
  • Wider patrols, so that you have to be even more careful if you only want to fight one pod at a time. Scouts would be extra important.
  • Higher chance that a soldier enters Bleed Out instead of dying outright. If we're going to make the game less predictable, we can't punish mistakes quite as harshly.
You'd keep that element of wanting to end each engagement as quickly as you can, but prevent complacency and constantly relying on the same strategy for every fight.

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