Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway

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Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

The laying out of protection behind a failed train isn't and shouldn't really be a thing any more unless there's been a derailment.

Axle counters particularly should have killed that nonsense stone dead.

# ? Jan 30, 2016 09:16

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# ? May 23, 2024 17:59

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Privatisation works! Part 94 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-a6841381.html

Independent posted:

Passenger satisfaction with East Coast railways falls from record levels immediately after privatisation

Passenger satisfaction levels with the East Coast Main Line rail service have plummeted since the Government privatised the line, industry statistics show.

The service between King�s Cross, Yorkshire, and the North East had been run directly by the Department for Transport between 2009 and early 2015 � making it one of the few publicly-owned railways in the UK.

During its being run by the DfT the route returned hundreds of millions of pounds in surplus to the taxpayer and in its passenger survey as a last publicly-owned line achieved the highest passenger satisfaction level of any long-distance franchise � 94 per cent.

The Government has however since returned the line to the private sector, with Virgin Trains East Coast taking over management on 1 March 2015.

In its first National Rail Passenger Survey period back in the private sector, satisfaction with the line has fallen to 89 per cent, bringing it more in line with the UK�s other privatised long-distance railways lines.

The figures originate from the Autumn edition of the National Rail Passenger Survey and are compared to the Spring 2015 edition of the survey.

East Coast was brought into public ownership as a last resort by the Government when the previous franchisee, National Express East Coast, dropped out, citing problems turning a profit on the service.

Some railways around the UK are publicly owned including Northern Ireland Railways and parts of London�s transport network, which is operated by Transport for London.

Most are however run by private franchisees, who bid to the DfT for the service and then run it for profit.

Other operators had a mixed record in the Autumn 2015 survey. Abellio Greater Anglia had 81 per cent satisfaction, c2c 89 per cent, Chiltern Railways 90 per cent, CrossCountry 86 per cent, East Midlands Trains 84 per cent and Govia Thameslink 73 per cent.

The Government has defended the franchising system, but Labour has pledged to take the whole system back into public ownership.

A spokesperson for Virgin Trains said: �In the relatively short time since we launched Virgin Trains services on the east coast route, we've focused on supporting our people to enhance our customers' experience and these results are demonstrating we are making good progress as more customers are saying they are satisfied with the attitude and helpfulness of our staff�.

Patrick McLoughlin has been seen skulking around the back of DfT towers muttering about entryist passenger survey respondents.

# ? Jan 30, 2016 11:18

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Should someone smoking in the toilets result in a station evacuation? Was at MAN on Monday when there was an Inspector Sands near the toilets that ended up as full evacuation.

# ? Jan 30, 2016 15:08

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Speaking of the ECML looks like there was a problem with the overhead line south of darlington today which seems to have hosed up half the ECML with delays going through darlington. Fun stuff! At least I get some money back on the fare.

# ? Feb 1, 2016 20:35

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Shouldn't go through Darlington, problem solved

# ? Feb 1, 2016 21:04

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

It's kind of necessary if you want to go anywhere decent.

(i.e, north)

Esepcially as the west coast line is quite possibly in the sea at the moment.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Feb 1, 2016

# ? Feb 1, 2016 21:27

thehustler: Apr 17, 2004; I am very curious about this little crescendo

Did the WCML open again as normal on the 1st?

It comes right past our back garden as it comes into Haymarket and it's been so peaceful this January

# ? Feb 2, 2016 13:54

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I dunno, I heard they'd had another major landslip recently but I dunno whether it took out part of the line or not. I would guess they must have though because the east coast trains weren't any busier. Apparently there were problems with the overheads again today between York and Newcastle so that presumably means Darlington again, it's the wind apparently.

# ? Feb 2, 2016 19:17

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

OwlFancier posted:

I dunno, I heard they'd had another major landslip recently but I dunno whether it took out part of the line or not. I would guess they must have though because the east coast trains weren't any busier.

How recent? I've been through there more recently than the 1st (couple of weeks ago I think) and it was fine between Birmingham and Oxford at least (after having the area between Leamington and Oxford shut like every weekend for months last year).

# ? Feb 2, 2016 19:20

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Oh no sorry I thought you meant the 1st of February, definitely since the 1st of January. I think it was a week or two ago.

# ? Feb 2, 2016 19:21

hyper from Pixie Sticks: Sep 28, 2004

thehustler posted:

Did the WCML open again as normal on the 1st?

Between Glasgow & Carlisle? Nope, hosed until March.

# ? Feb 2, 2016 22:37

Bacon Terrorist: May 7, 2010; to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

Bozza posted:

The laying out of protection behind a failed train isn't and shouldn't really be a thing any more unless there's been a derailment.

Axle counters particularly should have killed that nonsense stone dead.

A few years ago I was working with a notoriously jinxed driver who managed to fail a 153 in the platform at Morecambe on NYE. He was instructed by both our control and the signaller to lay detonators as protection for the rescuing train. The driver of that rescuing train? Himself :allears:

# ? Feb 3, 2016 09:02

Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

Rules is rules.

Reminds me of a tale my gaffer told me about his friend that drives freight trains. Used to regularly drive freight up the west coast of Scotland and arrive at the station, get out and drive a light engine back towards Glasgow.

Instead of pulling right up to the signal, he'd stop half way down the platform cos it was closer to the stairs and wasn't an issue anyway as the platform was huge.... until he hadn't fully read his briefing sheet and realised they'd slapped 6 extra wagons on the back.

Promptly drove his light engine into the side of his own train. Crashing into yourself is a rare art.

# ? Feb 3, 2016 12:15

Hexyflexy: Sep 2, 2011; asymptotically approaching one

Bozza posted:

Rules is rules.

Reminds me of a tale my gaffer told me about his friend that drives freight trains. Used to regularly drive freight up the west coast of Scotland and arrive at the station, get out and drive a light engine back towards Glasgow.

Instead of pulling right up to the signal, he'd stop half way down the platform cos it was closer to the stairs and wasn't an issue anyway as the platform was huge.... until he hadn't fully read his briefing sheet and realised they'd slapped 6 extra wagons on the back.

Promptly drove his light engine into the side of his own train. Crashing into yourself is a rare art.

Ha. How much leeway have drivers got to do what they want with the locomotive without getting bollocked? Your post reminded me, I've seen shitloads of freight trains mainly on the midland mainline over the years, mostly gravel from the quarries, or coal going to the power station near Derby. They always slow down like hell before going through a station, maybe 5mph? Then you hear them power up after clearing the platform.

Different route, but waiting for the last train of the day at Coventry station, a (I think) Class 37, not coupled to anything, blew through the station doing the best part of 100mph. The wind almost knocked me over, and it scared the living crap out of me.

Exactly how hosed would that driver be if caught?

# ? Feb 4, 2016 04:33

Bacon Terrorist: May 7, 2010; to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

That is truly special, Bozza

It very much depends on the company, it has been noted that freight drivers get a lot more leeway than passenger drivers in general. In my area at least.

# ? Feb 4, 2016 05:55

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

He would be hosed but the tracks caught fire and the train disappeared shortly after leaving the station. The driver was going home.

# ? Feb 4, 2016 18:04

Hezzy: Dec 4, 2004; Pillbug

OwlFancier posted:

He would be hosed but the tracks caught fire and the train disappeared shortly after leaving the station. The driver was going home.

line speed is 87mph though

# ? Feb 4, 2016 21:01

Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

Speed restrictions for trains are serious fuckin' business so getting caught speeding is a deep poo poo offense (as in, gross misconduct if proven to be wilful done rather than a gently caress up). Even a gently caress up is looked on poorly.

There's different restrictions for different sorts of trains on their speeds depending on their braking capabilities - known as the Appendix curves (as they're related to an appendix to the signal spacing standards). Appendix A is All Trains or the shitey braking trains curve, almost entirely freight and engineering trains, Appendix B is passenger trains and Appendix C is enhanced braking which is basically all passenger stock post mid 80s plus a few oldies but goodies like the HST.

For a comparison, at 60mph: Appendix A requires 1070m braking, Appendix B needs 632m and Appendix C is 514m

# ? Feb 5, 2016 12:51

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

Hexyflexy posted:

Ha. How much leeway have drivers got to do what they want with the locomotive without getting bollocked? Your post reminded me, I've seen shitloads of freight trains mainly on the midland mainline over the years, mostly gravel from the quarries, or coal going to the power station near Derby. They always slow down like hell before going through a station, maybe 5mph? Then you hear them power up after clearing the platform.

One time I was waiting at Hemel Hempstead and a container freight train came through without slowing down. No idea how fast it was going, but standing just slightly over the yellow line as it went through was better than any rollercoaster I've ever been on.

thwumthwumthwumthwum

# ? Feb 5, 2016 23:22

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Trin Tragula posted:

One time I was waiting at Hemel Hempstead and a container freight train came through without slowing down. No idea how fast it was going, but standing just slightly over the yellow line as it went through was better than any rollercoaster I've ever been on.

thwumthwumthwumthwum

Do you idiots have double-stacks yet or still running old-timey container flats due to clearance issues?

# ? Feb 6, 2016 01:31

Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

Double stacks? loving lol, still running full sized containers on dropped base wagons cos our tunnels are so low.

# ? Feb 6, 2016 10:00

Metrication: Dec 12, 2010; Raskin had one problem: Jobs regarded him as an insufferable theorist or, to use Jobs's own more precise terminology, "a shithead who sucks".

quote:

Transport tsar�s sell-off plan will break up Network Rail

Transport tsar Nicola Shaw to recommend partial privatisation with lines sold to outside investors

Nicola Shaw, the boss of the High Speed 1 rail link, is set to recommend taking several big lines � and even whole networks � and selling them to outside investors.

Shaw is believed to have identified routes including Greater Anglia, Essex Thameside and Wessex as those most likely to attract pension, insurance and sovereign wealth funds to invest. They would take over running the tracks from the state-owned company, and buy in services from Network Rail and other contractors.

Shaw, who was awarded a CBE in the new year honours, was asked by the chancellor in July to draw up a blueprint for the behemoth that runs 20,000 miles of track and most of the big stations. The Shaw Report is also set to recommend the creation of a new agency that will sit at arm�s length from government and be responsible for strategic rail matters.

The new body, which will have echoes of the old Strategic Rail Authority that was axed in 2006, will handle everything from franchising, big upgrades, control of the system, railway standards and long-term planning of schemes such as High Speed 2. That work is currently split across the Department for Transport and Network Rail, and would mean a big shift of powers from the state-owned company.

Network Rail has become a huge problem for the government since its debt, now �38bn, was transferred to the national balance sheet in 2014. Since then, delays and cost overruns have emerged on its multibillion-pound upgrades.

Shaw is also considering recommending the creation of at least one new route, with a new northern route the most likely. Currently, lines across Yorkshire and Lancashire do not have a dedicated Network Rail route, and must borrow resources from the east and west coast main lines. A northern route would fit with the chancellor�s so-called Northern Powerhouse, which includes devolving power over transport to a new body, Transport for the North.

Network Rail�s routes � of which there are currently eight � will be turned into separate entities with their own profit-and-loss accounts. Shaw wants the routes to work more closely with the train companies, becoming suppliers. Network Rail, which is trying to pre-empt her report, has also suggested inviting companies such as Serco, Hitachi and Siemens to compete for long-term upgrade contracts.

Shaw has run the HS1 London to Dover rail link for almost five years. It is owned and operated by two Canadian pension funds on a 30-year concession.

She will publish her report early next month � in time for the March 16 budget. She is working alongside Network Rail chairman Sir Peter Hendy on it.

The report will trigger a scramble among banks and investors. Network Rail and the Shaw Report declined to comment."

It begins...

# ? Feb 10, 2016 22:44

Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

Oh good. Wonder if I can get a pay rise out of this cos I'm a specialist resource.

Suspect my department will be shaved off wholesale if we go, as we're in the renewal and enhancement arm.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 15:10

Desiderata: May 25, 2005; Go placidly amid the noise and haste...

Just got a Manchester to Llandudno train. I did not know we still ran carriages where you have to lean out the window to open the door handle. Still a nicer than a Pacer though.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 18:22

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Desiderata posted:

Just got a Manchester to Llandudno train. I did not know we still ran carriages where you have to lean out the window to open the door handle. Still a nicer than a Pacer though.

I remember when I was working in Birmingham, must have been 1998, and they had the slam door carriages on the Lichfield - Redditch line. They'd been gone on the Great Western Line out of Paddington for so long I could barely remember actually being in such a carriage

# ? Feb 15, 2016 19:06

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Desiderata posted:

Just got a Manchester to Llandudno train. I did not know we still ran carriages where you have to lean out the window to open the door handle. Still a nicer than a Pacer though.

Yes I had one of those recently too, god knows how you're supposed to do it if you're an old lady or something as it's bloody awkward.

Also they don't close themselves either I don't think so the conductor has to run along and shut them all.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 19:13

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

Desiderata posted:

Just got a Manchester to Llandudno train. I did not know we still ran carriages where you have to lean out the window to open the door handle. Still a nicer than a Pacer though.

I distinctly remember there being a big fuss several years ago over all these sorts of trains finally being phased out / made illegal or something. Was that only on specific lines, or what?

# ? Feb 15, 2016 20:27

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Slam doors, AIUI, fail the Disability Discrimination Act and they have to be replaced by 2020.

It was originally 2004, but obviously that's been and gone.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 20:39

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

the ones still in service have central locking so you can't open the doors except when the driver allows it at a station stop. you're probably remembering there was a fuss about getting rid of those you could open even when the train was in motion & thankfully they're long gone.

once the last of the Intercity 125s are replaced will there be any other do-it-yourself doors left in running?

# ? Feb 15, 2016 20:45

mrpwase: Apr 21, 2010; I HAVE GREAT AVATAR IDEAS
For the Many, Not the Few

If you live anywhere along the Cotswold Line between Didcot and Hereford you have a choice:

- lovely little commuter trains that admittedly have automatic doors
- IC125s that have comfortable seating, plug sockets etc. but slam doors
- Modern and comfortable Adelantes with automatic doors*

*only available if you're a posh gently caress that commutes to London from the Cotswolds and can afford the peak fare

The solution is: don't live in the Cotswolds

# ? Feb 15, 2016 21:11

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

mrpwase posted:

The solution is: don't live in the Cotswolds

The solution as usual seems to be travel to or from London, otherwise enjoy your journey in some bits of sheet metal held together with sellotape.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 21:38

Blacknose: Jul 28, 2006; Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

They'd been gone on the Great Western Line out of Paddington for so long I could barely remember actually being in such a carriage

The HSTs are all slam door same as all mk3 carriages and still run out of Paddington on the great western lines.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 22:49

Desiderata: May 25, 2005; Go placidly amid the noise and haste...

OwlFancier posted:

Yes I had one of those recently too, god knows how you're supposed to do it if you're an old lady or something as it's bloody awkward.

Also they don't close themselves either I don't think so the conductor has to run along and shut them all.

Poor fellow was run ragged at every station making sure they were all closed. While the driving unit seemed speedy it must play merry hell with the timetable due to the prolonged dwell time.

More than that, in an odd way nationally embarrassing. It was one of those moments when Britain seems less pleasingly quaint, so much as as pathetically backward.

Edit -... and the old refurbished southern cast-off electric train I got back from Liverpool has the phrase "Northern Powerhouse" branded onto it. Conservative political slogans embossed on on our privatised national assets rolling through the provinces, bringing the word from the capital to the plebs.

Desiderata fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Feb 16, 2016

# ? Feb 15, 2016 23:55

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Metrication posted:

It begins...

So how long after this goes through do we have another Hatfield or Potter's Bar crash then?

# ? Feb 16, 2016 00:21

Party Boat: Nov 1, 2007; where did that other dog come from

who is he

I'm spending half my life on the ECML at the moment and still encounter the occasional slam door train, even on services going to / from London. If there's some system to avoiding them I would use it because they usually have smaller seats that my lanky legs literally cannot fit in.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 00:36

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Guys why did nobody tell me Michael Portillo had come to my fair country, USA, to wax poetically about our infrastructure disasters?

# ? Feb 16, 2016 00:38

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Party Boat posted:

I'm spending half my life on the ECML at the moment and still encounter the occasional slam door train, even on services going to / from London. If there's some system to avoiding them I would use it because they usually have smaller seats that my lanky legs literally cannot fit in.

It seems kind of random. The stirling to kings cross train was one so it seems like they just bung them on wherever.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 17:34

Hezzy: Dec 4, 2004; Pillbug

West Coast Railways have had another prohibition notice issued against them :laugh:

# ? Feb 18, 2016 02:44

Bozza: Mar 5, 2004; "I'm a really useful engine!"

Banned from running trains for being poo poo lol

# ? Feb 18, 2016 12:56

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# ? May 23, 2024 17:59

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Yet FGW still exist :v:

# ? Feb 18, 2016 13:15

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