|
Harrow posted:Just casually thinking about it, I think the difficulty tweaks I'd personally enjoy the most would be: Helps with the Bleed Out chance. Its nice. Cant help with the patrols mind you.
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:50 |
|
|
Mordaedil posted:So you don't get that the "free" move the aliens get is to allow them a fighting chance or just face being shot down by your squad? I mean, I guess you could set up your squad to overwatch them, but overwatch has penalty to hit too, and the big difference is that your guys are already in cover. You might as well argue that units shouldn't be able to use cover and just have the game be a matter of shooting guys quickly with no strategy. Instead of the free move just have the aliens actually take their two actions on their turn at all times. Since XCOM2 is supposed to be easily moddable this might actually be possible depending on how much the AI cheats (I'll be trying to make the start of the mission trigger every alien pod on the map - and then see if the AI magically knows where you are or if it'll then go into advance-between-cover-pieces-to-hunt-humans-mode for a quick first attempt). As for massive budget - it's a AAA game by a AAA publisher. It might not have CoD budget, but compared to any indie games it's massive. The Iron Rose posted:There actually is, there's a small right facing arrow on the uh, right side of the main bar when selecting an ability. Wow I'd never have seen that, since the thing is so cluttered full of arrow marks. Is there a costs-1-action and costs-2-actions indicator too? And is the XCOM1 info panel hidden somewhere?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:If it wasn't for mind control and hacking being basically guaranteed in the late game I wouldn't have even seen half the enemies doing their abilities because they never got a single shot off. For fucks sake turn up the difficulty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:26
|
|
|
Is it possible to field a MEC soldier without a robot suit? Would there even be a reason to do this? I have a heavy who's looking at a 17 day recovery and am thinking about turning her into an MEC soldier to reduce the recovery period. This is in EW obviously.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:37
|
|
|
Wildtortilla posted:Is it possible to field a MEC soldier without a robot suit? Would there even be a reason to do this? I have a heavy who's looking at a 17 day recovery and am thinking about turning her into an MEC soldier to reduce the recovery period. This is in EW obviously. It is not, they need the suit to go in the field.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:43
|
|
|
dogstile posted:For fucks sake turn up the difficulty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:44
|
|
|
My first playthrough I was reading this thread wondering how the hell you guys are doing so well, then I started another game with a lot more understanding and it made a bit more sense. My first run was a mess. Also, god drat does getting to 5-6 man squads ASAP make a difference. My biggest problem in my last game was trying to handle 5-6 things with 4 dudes every game, inevitably getting 1-2 shot to poo poo, and then juggling a bunch of replacements meaning I never had a solid ace squad to work with. Already working with a better squad like 3 months earlier in this new game. With a little bit of save scumming (mostly when I try something dumb) I've be able to flawless every mission, which is WAY different then the last. Still on veteran though until I see everything and understand all the mechanics as well as I'll probably need to. EDIT: Also, should I be staying in that time period before the Avatar event for a while, allowing to dig out more of the base and get more buildings set up before that all starts? It seems like you can postpone it for a long time if you just sit on those techs. I don't know if it was bad luck or what but my first game the bar got to like 2 from full in like 2 months through all the events that were popping up, seemed tedious as hell. Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Feb 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:49
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:It is not, they need the suit to go in the field. There is no budget for a second robot suit current. Thanks! Another question about MECs: do they ever have a recovery period after combat? My sole MEC has taken a pounding in a few missions but he never goes to the hospital.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
Vib Rib posted:But then how would we complain it's too easy? The complaint isn't that it's too easy, the complaint is that it's binary and boring when played optimally. You always make sure you only ever pull one alien pod and you always make sure you kill every alien (or at least the big one) before they get a turn because if they do get one they'll kill someone. It's either no damage or dead (or might-as-well-be-dead on Legendary because of the recovery times) because base damage is high, criticals happen all the time and the Aliens have access to a lot of guaranteed hit, AoE and cover destruction. I mean I love Beagles videos, but just watch one where plays optimally - it shows perfectly just how boring and gamey optimal play is. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Feb 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:51
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:The complaint isn't that it's too easy, the complaint is that it's binary and boring when played optimally. You always make sure you only ever pull one alien pod and you always make sure you kill every alien (or at least the big one) before they get a turn because if they do get one they'll kill someone. It's either no damage or dead (or might-as-well-be-dead on Legendary because of the recovery times) because base damage is high, criticals happen all the time and the Aliens have access to a lot of guaranteed hit, AoE and cover destruction. Lol at this coming right on the heels of you whinging about the exact game mechanisms that mitigate this to some extent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:56
|
|
|
Figuring out how to play optimally is hardly boring This is the same poo poo people complained about in Long War.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:00
|
|
|
splifyphus posted:You're completely right, but I thought evaporating pods before they can get a shot at you is what XCOM was all about. I think the real issue is that they abandoned the distinction between health and armor, so even a slight graze can incapacitate a soldier for a month of gameplay. That means you basically need to be playing flawlessly and not taking any damage at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Wildtortilla posted:There is no budget for a second robot suit current. Thanks! If they take enough damage they can, but usually the armor absorbs most of the damage (something XCOM2 doesn't do, annoyingly). Keep in mind though that MECs are actually pretty fragile. Don't run them in front expecting them to tank everything!
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:04
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Figuring out how to play optimally is hardly boring That's weird because apart from the Pod mechanics, Long War did a lot to make encounters less binary. Better cover, more options for units sitting still, balanced with squad rotation in mind, costs for alien deployments, etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:04
|
|
|
Pods seem like a design concession, like some of the enemy's 2-turn abilities are to provide a fair challenge without being deadly overwhelming... Has anyone seriously been hit by pinions at all except the one time to discover they impact with an AoE? Only anecdotal, but 3 pods is usually a mission-ender for most players. It'd be nice to make the aliens play a little more like a human opponent would, but without summoning the entire mission's set against you. Not really sure how to do that. Maybe you make the other pods become defensively alert and set up overwatch traps for you to stumble into while crawling toward you based on how long the game designers believe it takes for the average player to dispatch a certain pod, or give them more stealth abilities for scan protocol and battle scanner to counter. However, it overwhelmingly encourages phantom rangers as scouts, and I don't even begin to know how it would affect mission timers. It's interesting to think about, but the changes you can make to the game range from "make pods larger to work around the pod concession being often too easy" to "overhaul game entirely." It's definitely true though, the core game everyone ends up playing around is all about isolating pods.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Instead of the free move just have the aliens actually take their two actions on their turn at all times. Since XCOM2 is supposed to be easily moddable this might actually be possible depending on how much the AI cheats (I'll be trying to make the start of the mission trigger every alien pod on the map - and then see if the AI magically knows where you are or if it'll then go into advance-between-cover-pieces-to-hunt-humans-mode for a quick first attempt). Two big things really swing the difficulty in XCOM2: Squad size upgrades and AGLs+plasma coming at the same tier. Grenadiers effectively get t3 secondaries as soon as you see your first Muton corpse and the higher-tier aliens do not become sufficiently dangerous to counteract bringing 50% more firepower. Even worse, the extra squadmember is effectively free: because there are only 5 classes total, squadsize II lets you double-up on one of whatever class you want without any loss of flexibility whatsoever. If there were eight classes, say, you'd have to lose something to bring an extra grenadier, even if you felt that the tradeoff was worth it. So: at some point the aliens need to have something to match squadsize increases, because those are two huge upgrades both in terms of direct firepower and your tactical flexibility. Then grenadiers and their guaranteed, large-area, long-range massive cover removal abilities with AGLs+plasma should probably be looked at. I'd move AGLs to an enemy more in-line with the other T3 gear, personally, maybe slightly lower, letting plasma effectively be the t2 upgrade for grenadiers. Maybe Andromedons?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:You always make sure you only ever pull one alien pod and you always make sure you kill every alien (or at least the big one) before they get a turn because if they do get one they'll kill someone. It's super simple in theory. But in practice, in actual execution, this is not always feasible, let alone easy or boring, on higher difficulties. That is where the challenge and unpredictability and maybe even excitement come in. If the distinction between health and armor bugs you that much (and it absolutely bugs me that much) there's already mods to fix that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
Erata posted:Has anyone seriously been hit by pinions at all except the one time to discover they impact with an AoE? It's only happened once or twice, but I've seen pinions backed up by a couple of mutons/ADVENT overwatching, which can be nasty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:09
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:That's weird because apart from the Pod mechanics, Long War did a lot to make encounters less binary. Better cover, more options for units sitting still, balanced with squad rotation in mind, costs for alien deployments, etc. Acid grenades for days from what I saw when Beagle did it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:11
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:So every move forward is probably going to lead you into a pod full of overwatching aliens. Okay. I mean, I guess I'm up for that now that there are time limits, Phantoms, and easy battlescanner access if a few other things are rebalanced, but XCOM1 would have turned into overwatching hell more than it already did. If they overwatch every turn that'd be true - I'm not sure if they would. It would be the optimal play style for them, but since they're the computer controlled antagonists nothing says they have to play optimally (they sure didn't in original xcom). If they don't know where you are they might make a 2nd move into range of your squad and not automatically get several other aliens to help them out from a good position for example. Again how easy that is to implement depends a lot on how much the alien AI cheats in XCOM2 in regards to vision and FoW. Totally agree that Grenadiers are ridiculous though, especially the jump from frag to plasma. It's just way too much guaranteed damage, and it also has shred, range and cover destruction on top.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:12
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:If they overwatch every turn that'd be true - I'm not sure if they would. It would be the optimal play style for them, but since they're the computer controlled antagonists nothing says they have to play optimally (they sure didn't in original xcom). If they don't know where you are they might make a 2nd move into range of your squad and not automatically get several other aliens to help them out from a good position for example. Aliens getting free shots and actions on activation seems like it would require XCOM 2 to throw you way more, and more powerful, rookies than you currently get. And supplies to replace all the weapons and armor you're not keeping. quote:Totally agree that Grenadiers are ridiculous though, especially the jump from frag to plasma. It's just way too much guaranteed damage, and it also has shred, range and cover destruction on top. My EXO suit guys don't even shoot the rocket launcher anymore. It's weaker than the plasma grenade. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
I was half assedly looking for a mod to speed up the grenade launcher animation, that probably says something about how many I fired
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:Aliens getting free shots and actions on activation seems like it would require XCOM 2 to throw you way more, and more powerful, rookies than you currently get. And supplies to replace all the weapons and armor you're not keeping. Wait untill you get WAR suits and you can shoots blaster launchers or shred cannons. On grenadeers those work with Salvo for some reason making them even better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:18
|
|
|
Hulk Krogan posted:It's only happened once or twice, but I've seen pinions backed up by a couple of mutons/ADVENT overwatching, which can be nasty. That does sound nasty, and I wish the aliens did more stuff like that more often instead of seemingly only by line of sight, since I'm pretty sure they still don't actually share sight from eachother... even from within the same pod. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's hard to remember all the details in these games. You can end up going, hypothetically, "Well. My specialist is out of position to really attack and ran outta combat protocols to break this overwatch.. but I could aid protocol this guy with armor and make a dashing move to retreat and break the overwatches so that everyone else can move safely and not eat all this damage..." I guess what I'm saying is that's cool as hell because it shows how the game becomes more interesting when the AI shows, even by happenstance, when it can play a little smarter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:19
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:My EXO suit guys don't even shoot the rocket launcher anymore. It's weaker than the plasma grenade. Yeah, this is actually a thing once you get plasma grenades. It lessens a bit if you then get a Blaster Launcher, but since getting Proximity Mines is much easier than that, you get this weird disconnect where your one-shot explosive heavy weapon is usually weaker than your throwables. Granted, they're still useful because they have much better range and are a bit more precise so you can snipe enemies, but it's still kinda weird.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:21
|
|
|
Tzarnal posted:Wait untill you get WAR suits and you can shoots blaster launchers or shred cannons. On grenadeers those work with Salvo for some reason making them even better. I bought an experimental heavy weapon before the WAR suit finished then felt real dumb when Shen told me she could make bigger ones now.  Also, holy gently caress I didn't know that. Grenadiers and Gunslingers are the best. By the way, do plasma weapons not get an additional upgrade slot or is 3 the maximum? I have the continent bonus of an extra slot so I should have 4 if each tier adds one. If not then that bonus is kind of useless by the end. Still no +20 hack or instant complete bonuses or anything. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:21
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:By the way, do plasma weapons not get an additional upgrade slot or is 3 the maximum? I have the continent bonus of an extra slot so I should have 4 if each tier adds one. If not then that bonus is kind of useless by the end. No, that bonus is great, because plasma remains at 2 weapon upgrades if you don't have it. They don't get three.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:23
|
|
|
TacMan posted:No, that bonus is great, because plasma remains at 2 weapon upgrades if you don't have it. They don't get three. Awesome, though I got Future Combat from Africa and forgot so that's good too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
Wildtortilla posted:There is no budget for a second robot suit current. Thanks! You can swap out the suit if you're only taking one mec out on missions and rotating the users. DatonKallandor posted:The complaint isn't that it's too easy, the complaint is that it's binary and boring when played optimally. You always make sure you only ever pull one alien pod and you always make sure you kill every alien (or at least the big one) before they get a turn because if they do get one they'll kill someone. It's either no damage or dead (or might-as-well-be-dead on Legendary because of the recovery times) because base damage is high, criticals happen all the time and the Aliens have access to a lot of guaranteed hit, AoE and cover destruction. Like I said, turn the loving difficulty up. You think you can play completely optimally when everyone has way more xp, pod sizes are increased at the timer is the same level? What about when someone takes a shot and you have to rotate them out that month? What about when you can't simply level up blademaster to instantly kill sectoids? All of your problems are solved by clicking a different button before you start the game. If you don't like that difficulty or certain parts (like the wounding, which a lot of people don't like), you can mod it out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think the real issue is that they abandoned the distinction between health and armor, so even a slight graze can incapacitate a soldier for a month of gameplay. That means you basically need to be playing flawlessly and not taking any damage at all. This annoys me to no end. Anyone got an idea how hard it is to mod that in?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:40
|
|
|
I think this game needs to rework the reinforcements system. As it stands, unless the reinforcements are called in while you're already in a firefight that you can't end before they show up, you can just overwatch and demolish them. Maybe reinforcements should all get Shadowstep for their first turn so that you can't just camp around the little flare and shoot them all to paste before they even reach cover.dogstile posted:Like I said, turn the loving difficulty up. You think you can play completely optimally when everyone has way more xp, pod sizes are increased at the timer is the same level? What about when someone takes a shot and you have to rotate them out that month? What about when you can't simply level up blademaster to instantly kill sectoids? How tough is Legendary? I just started on Commander after finishing a Veteran playthrough and I don't know that I'm finding it all that much harder. An extra HP or two on every early-game enemy is actually more impactful than I would've expected, but I'm still consistently ending engagements before the enemies get to fire. I also rushed mag weapons and increased squad size, which is definitely helping. To be fair, though, I've seen plenty of complaints about how Commander is too easy but Legendary is too hard, so maybe I'm running into that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Yes we should go back to the good old days of throwing rookies at doors so they eat reaction fire while the experienced members shoot down the standing aliens. This but unironically I played UFO Defense this weekend and had a 70% casaulty rate and it was good
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:49
|
|
|
Harrow posted:I don't think I'd like a version of XCOM 2 where soldier and alien health is cranked up so that firefights last longer just because everything can take more damage. The range of things that can happen in an individual engagement isn't wide enough to avoid that kind of gameplay becoming tedious. The more "realistic" way to handle that would be to make shots just miss more often on both sides, but that would be equally frustrating, if not more frustrating (and make grenades even more important, unless they can also veer wildly off-course). Hey you just reinvented Long War design philosophy from first principles!
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
Soulfucker posted:This but unironically I admit I sort of miss the old X-COM days where losing a large portion of your team wasn't the prelude to a losing spiral.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
For ini tweak purposes am I supposed to be tweaking the inis in My Documents/My Games/Xcom 2 or the ones in the steam folder that all start with "Default"? Edit: Okay I googled it and it's the ones in the steam folder. What's the purpose of the other virtually identical set of inis? Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Feb 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
Without any INI tweaks, here are the mods I'm running. Pretty happy with the difficulty thus far on Legendary. Mostly inspired by Beagle's pastebin - but I haven't implemented any INI tweaks yet. I know the pod size is kind of bullshit and made retaliation missions almost impossible in the second or third time you get them. Mission Time Remaining - posted above, just tried this and it will remain in my loadout unless it becomes a vanilla feature All the Long War Studio mods. Remove aim assists - not a fan of how the game cheats for you, so this fixes that. Grenade Damage Falloff - probably the best difficulty tweak thus far. Makes grenades work like they did in Long war, together with Non tile snapping grenades non tile snapping Psi Bleedout mod True Rectroactive AWC Strip primary weapons - kind of buggy with how it displays, but does the job Quiet Bradford Stop wasting my time - just need something that speeds up the gremlin animations Free camera rotation Capn Bub's Accessory Pack - awesome high quality stuff here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
I dunno, would people be more engaged in the late game if it took some cues from Darkest Dungeon, only with less grinding? Make it easier for soldiers to die, but make it easier to recover from that, maybe. Ways to do that:
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 16:02
|
|
|
Harrow posted:I think this game needs to rework the reinforcements system. As it stands, unless the reinforcements are called in while you're already in a firefight that you can't end before they show up, you can just overwatch and demolish them. Maybe reinforcements should all get Shadowstep for their first turn so that you can't just camp around the little flare and shoot them all to paste before they even reach cover. It's pretty tough, I find that the first couple of missions are very hit and miss on if i'll survive or not, the first retaliation mission is a trap and you should be prepared to just bug out of it. Mid game enemy pod sizes seem a bit bigger, some enemies have more armour (shredder becomes way more important than in commander). I haven't gotten to late game on my legendary run, probably because of time more than other things. For your first attempt at legendary, DO NOT PLAY IRONMAN Savescum like a motherfucker, learn what are safe moves and what aren't, you will have to play far more cleverly than you do on commander. You'll get there quicker if you don't have to restart every few missions due to losing your entire roster.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
Question about the doom clock. Mine just activated again through alien research, and there's a pending Dark Event (TM) that is supposed to increase the doom counter by another 2, which I think gets assigned to a facility. What happens if I just wait and let that Dark Event run its course? Would it even add any pips to a facility, or would it just do nothing? I have zero research projects available so I should probably do story missions (forge or gate), how much do these reduce the counter by?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:50 |
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:That's weird because apart from the Pod mechanics, Long War did a lot to make encounters less binary. Better cover, more options for units sitting still, balanced with squad rotation in mind, costs for alien deployments, etc. There were never costs for alien deployments. There were thresholds to get a small RNG boost to aliens on missions or to bias RNG rolls on UFOs towards larger ones, but the AI was never making additional strategic choices under Long War. Please cease deluding yourself and others.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 16:21
|
|