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My first Darkest Dungeon rage post. gently caress the Collector. I am so sick of fighting this rear end in a top hat. It's not that he's that difficult, I've killed him a ton, and only lost maybe one guy to a bad crit and bleed, but I'm just tired of having to fight him every other dungeon run, especially when I'm just trying to make money on some suicidal low level dark runs. 5% chance to spawn my hairy rear end.
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Feb 18, 2016 04:55
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| # ? May 29, 2024 17:24 |
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5% is one in twenty which, given the number of hall fights per run, is not that uncommon. There may be other adjustments to his spawn chance but I can't find any in the files like the Shambler 0 light spawn chance. In other news, I uploaded that de-RNG mod to  so I guess we'll see if someone gets vitriolic about it. In hindsight there are a number of changes that could potentially make it ludicrously more difficult than vanilla despite the lack of RNG screwage. Oh well, at least it's funny.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:12
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Half the champion bosses down. Swine God was really easy with an Arbalest using Rallying Flare every round, Fleshpigthing was incredibly easy by stacking bleed and blight from Houndmaster, Hellion, and Plague Doctor. The hag witch almost took someone out, despite completely ignoring the pot and focusing on her she kept using the ability that healed her, she even crit it twice. I still haven't tried the Shambler yet, I know you have to practically change the way you play against that and the Darkest Dungeon.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:19
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The sunken crew maybe shouldn't be able to be moved because it 100% utterly trivializes the fight in all difficulties
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Feb 18, 2016 05:26
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Nakar posted:5% is one in twenty which, given the number of hall fights per run, is not that uncommon. There may be other adjustments to his spawn chance but I can't find any in the files like the Shambler 0 light spawn chance. I hadn't thought about it in those terms, I assumed that it was 5% per run and that I was having a string of bad luck. This actually makes me feel better. I'll just make sure that I take a little more time thinking about my party composition even for suicide runs.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:26
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I like both bosses in the Warrens conceptually but neither of them proved to be very difficult. Most of the bosses in the game are actually pretty easy once you get past the initial "What do I do?" phase.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:30
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Bad Seafood posted:I like both bosses in the Warrens conceptually but neither of them proved to be very difficult. You should be able to Mark Wilbur and have the Swine Lord attack him.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:31
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Most of the boss fights are not especially sophisticated, because by and large enemies in DD do not have particularly complex AI. There's definitely an attempt to create some variety with stuff like the summons and the pot and the Prophet hiding behind the Pews, but you don't get things like the Prophet's AI changing depending on the number of pews still alive or the Hag punishing you for not having a character in the pot, or something. This leads to easy if time-consuming strategies like the Pounder kill-the-Matchman-repeat thing where it's guaranteed to work because the AI only ever does one thing. I'm not sure how smart their scripting system is to begin with so I don't know if they even can make smarter, more complex boss fights. So they mostly structure it around a particular gimmick and if you defeat that gimmick you win and if you can't defeat it you lose.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:34
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I should say I still enjoyed most of the boss fights, I just find it kinda funny in retrospect how simple a lot of them were. It's also actually quite easy to program an "Intelligent" AI insofar as shaping its ability to make optimum choices within a strictly limited rule and skill set; the tricky part is making it "Dumb" enough to present a fair challenge to the player...though having typed it out I suppose that's still a separate issue from making it complex.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:41
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I think the AI is great the way it is. If it were smarter it'd be a lot more frustrating. The game is basically about minimizing your losses over the long-term, and if you don't play smart, the odds are stacked against you. By making good choices, you overcome the series of obstacles presented to you. Right now the RNG can screw you sometimes, but if the enemies actually understood how the game worked they could just focus fire on one party member and you would lose really fast. The way they set up the "marked" mechanic is a pretty good compromise, because it lets the player partially into the loop.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:47
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The fights can still be difficult, and can be tense, it's just not that difficult to understand what you "should" be doing because the bosses don't mix it up too much. The tension comes just from executing, from the gasp when you miss the Matchman and have to improvise with a stun or attacking with your healer. Not from "whoa I wasn't expecting that to happen when it did!" A better-scripted boss can surprise the player while still presenting a relatively fair challenge, especially with a mix of conditionals and random attacks. The best example I can think of would be having the Prophet change his rubble targeting depending on steps you've taken to mitigate it. Like if your Man-at-Arms is constantly Guarding then he always picks the MaA as one of two targets to basically lock him into the Guarding, or if you Bolster up a party's Dodge he targets the entire party (he can't do this right now, and it'd have to be much weaker) as sort of a "Oh you're buffing everybody's Dodge? Well they're gonna need it!" measure. Combine that with the mixup of the Prophet's second turn where he does other things and you get a little bit more complex of a fight that's not tremendously more difficult but which is also not something you just sleepwalk through once you know how to fight it.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:50
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Yeah, I think the current level of intelligence among enemies is fine, I just think certain bosses might've benefited from having new tricks up their sleeve of something. As Snak says though, Darkest Dungeon is really about playing the long game, to which end the bosses fit their niche as climactic encounters to prepare for and wade through.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:51
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Yeah, but they could at least have given them one new gimmick twist each tier. The only one that does this is I think the Necromancer, who at higher levels can summon Bone Generals. And I guess maybe Wilbur getting two turns from Veteran on, but that barely changes things.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:56
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Part of what makes the bosses feel so manageable sometimes is that their location on any given map is so predictable. If you had to wade through most of the dungeon to get to them first, the sheer attrition might make the fights a lot more daunting and cut down on your ability to win through very safe methods. But because it's pretty easy to figure out that the boss is almost definitely in the room that's farthest from your starting position, you can kind of just beeline there, camp in the room right before the boss, and enter with low stress, high HP, and a bunch of buffs. I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, though, without just making boss runs an absolute, unfun slog.
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Feb 18, 2016 05:58
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Nakar posted:Bone Generals Speaking of Bone Generals. 1) How the gently caress can a skeleton get so fat? 2) How the gently caress can a skeleton that fat dodge anything?
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Feb 18, 2016 05:59
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He's just big boned.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:01
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Bad Seafood posted:I should say I still enjoyed most of the boss fights, I just find it kinda funny in retrospect how simple a lot of them were. The AI does get a bit smarter on the higher-level dungeon runs, doing things like focusing stress attacks on already stressed characters, using high-damage attacks preferentially on already injured characters and using blight or bleed attacks on characters with low resistance to those. It's still not particularly complex, though, and of course if it did those things all the time it'd just be obnoxious.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:02
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Bad Seafood posted:He's just big boned. That only answers one of two questions.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:02
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Harrow posted:I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, though, without just making boss runs an absolute, unfun slog. Or set it so that generated boss dungeons don't have hallway fights, traps, or curios, just however many room battles is fair and the boss. That'd allow you to treat a boss run as an all-out sort of thing where you know you only provision for the run, like the Darkest Dungeon itself. It'd prevent the post-boss victory lap where you clear out the rest of the dungeon as you're able and skedaddle with loot, but if boss dungeons were generally not too terribly long then you could just go do another dungeon for loot and let the boss fights be boss fights, more or less.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:03
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iirc the hag doesn't use Taste the Stew until Veteran. Prophet and Flesh randomly multitarget at Veteran. Necromancer and Brigand Cannon summon bigger enemies at higher levels. Wilbur gets an extra attack at Veteran and can multitarget his bonus stun at Champion. I don't think the Siren or Crew gets anything new. Siren might use her summons more liberally... maybe she gets tougher summons??? Dunno.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:03
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Nakar posted:You could make the boss dungeon more of a gauntlet so it's less "explore and find the boss" and more "you know where it is, now get to it." Maybe even ensure the room right before the boss is always empty as a freebie camp. But if you did as you suggested then yeah I could see it potentially becoming a slog. On the other hand, every dungeon's purpose is to wear you down, right? So being forced to pass through some reasonable number of preliminary fights to get to the boss doesn't seem like an awful idea. Just maybe not as many. ...Boss dungeons are already like that with very few exceptions. The boss is always in the farthest room from the spawn. On some occasions, however, there are two equidistant rooms and then you're really screwed.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:05
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The Siren was honestly probably the most consistently difficult boss I faced. She never really changes her setup, but the fact that she can seduce your party members and turn them against you proved to be a reliably sore point to plan around in a way the Hag simply tossing them in the pot wasn't. I never lost anybody to the Siren that I can recall, but my fights with her were always tense even when I brought along a good team. Gabriel Pope posted:I don't think the Siren or Crew gets anything new. Siren might use her summons more liberally... maybe she gets tougher summons??? Dunno.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:08
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Snak posted:...Boss dungeons are already like that with very few exceptions. The boss is always in the farthest room from the spawn. On some occasions, however, there are two equidistant rooms and then you're really screwed. Well, the point is that, because you know the boss is always the furthest room from the spawn, you know that you can skip all the side rooms that aren't that room. It makes a medium-length boss quest much shorter than the average medium-length quest because you know exactly where to go and can avoid distractions. Nakar's suggestion would be to make sure boss dungeons are built with that in mind--there's only really one path, and it's a long one.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:08
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Snak posted:...Boss dungeons are already like that with very few exceptions. The boss is always in the farthest room from the spawn. On some occasions, however, there are two equidistant rooms and then you're really screwed. At the moment making the boss dungeons regular dungeons doesn't work because, as you said, the boss's location is almost always immediately pinpointable and only has to be "found" in the worst case (and incredibly unlikely) scenario of two equidistant rooms on distinct branches. So you go straight for it, and in some cases you only go through like two fights if you've got good Scouting because you can pinpoint a route to the boss that skips as much danger as possible. The way I see it you'd improve on the boss dungeons either by making them more explicitly about combat, or make them actually require that you find the boss, which requires the boss room not always being placed as far away as possible.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:11
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Bad Seafood posted:He's just big boned. I am SO MAD you got to make that joke and not me
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Feb 18, 2016 06:12
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Harrow posted:Well, the point is that, because you know the boss is always the furthest room from the spawn, you know that you can skip all the side rooms that aren't that room. It makes a medium-length boss quest much shorter than the average medium-length quest because you know exactly where to go and can avoid distractions. Nakar's suggestion would be to make sure boss dungeons are built with that in mind--there's only really one path, and it's a long one. Oh, yeah I guess I read too much emphasis on the " less 'explore and find the boss' and more 'you know where it is, now get to it.' " point and my comment was directed at the idea that we need to explore to find the boss. I reread the rest of the post and see that I was wrong.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:12
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You know it just occurred to me. I'm surprised this game doesn't have an enemy with the ability to steal/spoil your provisions/loot.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:14
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Bad Seafood posted:You know it just occurred to me. 
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Feb 18, 2016 06:16
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Gabriel Pope posted:iirc the hag doesn't use Taste the Stew until Veteran. She does it on Apprentice, I know she did it to me when I fought the Wizened Hag.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:18
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Bad Seafood posted:You know it just occurred to me. The enemy that steals your loot is already in the game, it's the loving level 5 Blacksmith.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:25
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Nakar posted:Maybe they're saving that for the Antiquarian update. She'll help you get more loot, which you'll need once this new enemy swipes it all! Haven't touched the game since beating it Sunday and clearing up my last few duties as caretaker the following Monday. Looking forward to partially rediscovering the game on NG+ in March when they roll out the new update.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:27
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Big Mad Drongo posted:The enemy that steals your loot is already in the game, it's the loving level 5 Blacksmith. lmao
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Feb 18, 2016 12:37
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cerebral posted:gently caress the Collector... It's not that he's that difficult... I'm just trying to make money He drops you a 2.5k stack when you beat him. If you're not having any trouble with him, you should be happy to get him so often.
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Feb 18, 2016 13:07
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I hope the Antiquarian has the ability to slow her resolve leveling up or be able to go into lower level dungeons because there's no way in hell I'm bringing her to champion dungeons
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Feb 18, 2016 14:52
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I am 110% behind the concept of the antiquarian. Node posted:I'm kinda sad that they said this is the last class they're adding to the game.
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Feb 18, 2016 15:55
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Chocobo posted:Until the first expansion. The even darkerer dungeon: Boo! A Miron Halloween Tyler Perry to voice Miron.
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Feb 18, 2016 17:56
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I think it's okay for a studio to move on from a game and I look forward to the announcement of Red Hook's new game Darkest Dungeon 2: Dark Harder
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Feb 18, 2016 17:58
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Do what God Of War should've done in its sequels: go on to slaughter other deities Darkest Dungeon 2: Darkest Pyramid
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Feb 18, 2016 18:00
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I'll be real I would play the poo poo out of Darkest Dungeon 2 themed after Japanese youkai Or Darkest Dungeon 2: Terror From the Deep
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Feb 18, 2016 18:05
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| # ? May 29, 2024 17:24 |
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miron so fat he has heart attacks at 0 stress
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Feb 18, 2016 18:12
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