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Angry Lobster posted:I think vampires in warhammer fantasy die like any other creature, beheading, massive trauma or being repeatedly stabbed in the face will kill them fine (unless your name is Vlad Von Carstein), they are just tougher and meaner than most beings though. I think the main difference is the definition of "massive trauma". Humans losing an arm is likely to lead to death via exsanguination or shock, whereas a vampire will probably react more like an Orc. Then there's all the magic/necromancy crap they could be getting up to.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:41
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Yeah, from what I can research Vampires are a bastard to put down and can even regenerate some damage. Punching out their entire chest or burning them to a crisp will probably kill them without question. Apparently sunlight doesn't kill them (hurts like a motherfucker though) and they don't truly die from being staked through the heart. Both will put the vampire into a deathlike state they can be revived from. In all honesty though I imagine Vampire Generals/Agents are going to be hard to kill but quick to surrender, lending themselves to the butcher/ransom/release mechanic. You don't usually become a vampire if you're not afraid of dying. We don't know much about how the Counts will play on a campaign level but I imagine some part of the vampiric corruption mechanic is leeching funds from neighboring provinces via turning nobles and merchants into vampires. If it were me I'd play up the Dracula/Castlevania theme where Vampires are rolling in money and building hugeass castles to host monster mashes, but their army recruitment involves little if any cash. Plus, having to bribe neighbors to not come knocking or bailing out your children of the night could be a considerable money sink.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:00
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dogstile posted:Good, gently caress that system, let me cover the enemy in tides of poo poo tier units. the problem is that the AI wouldn't disband troops in Rome 2 so even if they could make armies of silver shield pikemen that wouldn't matter because the AI filled all the army slots and armies with levy hoplites and slighters in the early game and now it will only buy new troops when they lose their armies  Some mods give Attila's upgrade mechanic to Rome and the AI becomes much more challeging. Basically i hope the AI develops the daunting task of left click + disband because that was what won wars.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:40
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Triskelli posted:Yeah, from what I can research Vampires are a bastard to put down and can even regenerate some damage. Punching out their entire chest or burning them to a crisp will probably kill them without question. Apparently sunlight doesn't kill them (hurts like a motherfucker though) and they don't truly die from being staked through the heart. Both will put the vampire into a deathlike state they can be revived from.  With warhammer Vamps, the weaknesses depend on the specific vamp. If a vampire was very god-fearing in life, then holy symbols will hurt it more. Some vampires have to count small objects scattered across the ground, some vampires need to sleep in their "native soil", some vampires catch fire when exposed to sunlight, some don't. Necrachs as a group all suffer from being unable to enter a dwelling unless they're invited inside. It makes hunting the living-impaired assholes very exciting!  Pretty much the final word in war-hammer vamp killing it decapitation and burning the body.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:50
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Vampire Corruption apparently negatively affects public order for non-VCs, and if it rises too high it can cause AI-controlled stacks to spawn and attack non-VC stuff. But yeah, they'll probably have a Master Necromancer hero (or a necrarch vampire hero) which spreads corruption. I'd also guess they'll have a Lahmia hero which functions similar to geisha/assassin agents, able to sneak around, infiltrating settlements, potentially turn human generals into vampires and assassinate enemy heroes/lords.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:57
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Hm, heres something i never thought of before; What happens if you try to turn an orc into a vampire? Orcpires? Or any other race than humans for that matter. I'm guessing everybody except humans are immune?
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Feb 17, 2016 22:14
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GyverMac posted:Hm, heres something i never thought of before; What happens if you try to turn an orc into a vampire? Orcpires? Or any other race than humans for that matter. I'm guessing everybody except humans are immune? Presumably, yeah they'd be immune.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:21
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Vampires/necromancers are almost exclusively human. Orcs and goblins don't fear death enough to care about vampirism/necromancy. Skaven are too into the Horned Rat. Dwarfs can't do magic and would never want to defile their dead through necromancy. And elves are already essentially immortal. But yeah it's also possible that only humans can physically be vampires. I don't think it's explicitly said, but it was humans who created vampirism, so it wouldn't be a surprise.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:24
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Lassitude posted:Vampires/necromancers are almost exclusively human. Orcs and goblins don't fear death enough to care about vampirism/necromancy. Skaven are too into the Horned Rat. Dwarfs can't do magic and would never want to defile their dead through necromancy. And elves are already essentially immortal. It would probably require Nagash to tailor the spell to the race in question. Vampires are a derivation of his work on making himself immortal. Could probably be done, but not trivially.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:36
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Yeah. Either way, no non-human vampires.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:41
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In older fluff there are mentions of non-human vampires, but not in the past decade or two. So I guess it depends on whether you consider Genevieve books canon or not. In WHFRP's Night's Dark Masters supplement (which is kinda canon) it's stated that:quote:All Vampires, however, maintain a singular prejudice against non-Humans. It is perhaps not impossible for a Dwarf, Elf, or Halfling to be made a Vampire, but it is unheard of for one of the blooded to break their inveterate snobbery towards these races.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:48
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Well, I mean, a vamp is basically everything an elf claims to be. Immortal, superhumanly strong, and incredibly dickish and arrogant. It's nice to have someone look down on the elfs for once, from a similar position.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:50
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Elves aren't even close to how strong/tough/fast vampires are.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:52
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Lassitude posted:Elves aren't even close to how strong/tough/fast vampires are. I know, that's why I said where elfs claim to be X, vamps are generally the real deal. Even in matters of being assholes. ESPECIALLY in matters of being assholes.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:52
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Triskelli posted:That, and ransoming enemy units seems to be a thing. I imagine that's only possible between the Humans/Dwarfs/Vampires, since no one likes Greenskins and the Greenskins don't take prisoners. I thought Greenskins do take prisoners to use as slave labor?
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Feb 17, 2016 23:07
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I dont know posted:I thought Greenskins do take prisoners to use as slave labor? They do, also they double as food rations if needed.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:41
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I still remember one of the most annoying bugs in med 2 was when it thought that "release" for some reason meant "execute" after you had captured some units.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:43
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Night10194 posted:I know, that's why I said where elfs claim to be X, vamps are generally the real deal. Even in matters of being assholes. Are you kidding me? Kerillian has them all beat in that aspect.
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Feb 18, 2016 00:36
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Night10194 posted:I know, that's why I said where elfs claim to be X, vamps are generally the real deal. Even in matters of being assholes. I'd say vamps are probably less assholes than high elves. Vampires will fight to defend humans against Chaos, and ultimately are concerned about the future of humanity (if only because they require human blood to survive). High elves don't give a gently caress about humans and couldn't care less if they are wiped out. In the end, VCs are better friends to the humans than the high elves could ever be. Plus, old vampires only need to feed on human blood once every few years. The Vampire Counts of Sylvania barely even snatch up virgins from their human vassals. That's pretty cool of them. Lassitude fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 08:59
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Mans posted:the problem is that the AI wouldn't disband troops in Rome 2 so even if they could make armies of silver shield pikemen that wouldn't matter because the AI filled all the army slots and armies with levy hoplites and slighters in the early game and now it will only buy new troops when they lose their armies It's good and bad, I really liked how in Rome 2 and Attila I could play the entire campaign with the "same" units, taking my 3 silver chevron Principes and upgrading them to legionaries or whatever. This was a really dumb problem in Rome 1, having to disband all your armies to get them to post-Marian reform quality. That being said, idk why it was so strictly designed to require technology upgrades and be so permanent a change as that obviously flawed the whole system. They only had it in place for some units in Rome 2 (Romans mainly), they made it much deeper in Attila and you could see its problems even further. The system was designed to straight up replace references for one unit with the next unit when that technology was advanced, so units like Hastati didn't actually exist anymore in garrisons or build options. Why they didn't just go with like a slightly more complex system that didn't overwrite entirely I'll never understand. Seems like they tried and couldn't fix it (or just didn't want to) and scrapped it entirely for Warhams though. As I said, good and bad. For human players it gives more flexibility but 1. You'll still have that Problem of disbanding units with good experience if you want to upgrade unit type, and 2. I doubt the AI will handle the poo poo tier problem any better, unless they really tackle the CAI stuff people messed with so much in all those mods. If they were smart about it, they would add a seperate system to allow you to refit one unit to an entirely different unit, maybe costing more that normal and requiring the same training turns, but maintaining unit experience. Basically the same upgrade system, but only called when the player requests it, not built into the entire research tree. Mazz fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 09:19
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Josef bugman posted:I still remember one of the most annoying bugs in med 2 was when it thought that "release" for some reason meant "execute" after you had captured some units. You confused the game. Why would you ever release units?!?!?
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Feb 18, 2016 09:40
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Night10194 posted:Well, I mean, a vamp is basically everything an elf claims to be. Immortal, superhumanly strong, and incredibly dickish and arrogant. It's nice to have someone look down on the elfs for once, from a similar position. Elves in Warhammer are no stronger or tougher than a human. A vampire however can quite literally rip somebody apart like in the Trashman episode of the latest X-Files series.
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Feb 18, 2016 10:21
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Klaus88 posted:Pretty much the final word in war-hammer vamp killing it decapitation and burning the body. I disagree. The last wording in vampire killing is an Imperial great cannon. When you absolutely, positively want something not just dead but smeared across a considerable quantity of landscape.
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Feb 18, 2016 11:10
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The Lone Badger posted:I disagree. The last wording in vampire killing is an Imperial great cannon. When you absolutely, positively want something not just dead but smeared across a considerable quantity of landscape. I do believe you mean the Imperial Helblaster Volley Gun/Dwarven Organ Gun.
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Feb 18, 2016 11:25
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You're both misspelling Steam Tank.
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Feb 18, 2016 11:26
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Clearly the best way of killing a Vampire is to pick him up and swallow him whole. This is the Ogre way, although if he's against being swallowed then you fire an Ironblaster at him and eat the pieces that are left.
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Feb 18, 2016 11:31
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Lassitude posted:I'd say vamps are probably less assholes than high elves. Vampires will fight to defend humans against Chaos, and ultimately are concerned about the future of humanity (if only because they require human blood to survive). High elves don't give a gently caress about humans and couldn't care less if they are wiped out. In the end, VCs are better friends to the humans than the high elves could ever be. Plus, old vampires only need to feed on human blood once every few years. The Vampire Counts of Sylvania barely even snatch up virgins from their human vassals. That's pretty cool of them. The elves fight chaos because gently caress chaos, we're a dying race where every loss is a tragedy but we'll keep fighting chaos because gently caress those guys they're cunts. The vamps fight chaos because they want food. idc what goons think, elves are  as gently caresse: also their silly pointy hats own e2: dwarves are actually the most boring race. Ooh we have beards live in the mountains and are all heavy infantry, guns and bigger guns Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 13:12
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Wafflecopper posted:e2: dwarves are actually the most boring race. Ooh we have beards live in the mountains and are all heavy infantry, guns and bigger guns Maybe, but they won the War of the Beard, an humiliating defeat the high elves never recovered from, suck it down pointy-eared cunts.
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Feb 18, 2016 13:42
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Wafflecopper posted:The elves fight chaos because gently caress chaos, we're a dying race where every loss is a tragedy but we'll keep fighting chaos because gently caress those guys they're cunts. The vamps fight chaos because they want food. idc what goons think, elves are mods?!?! Lord_Magmar posted:Clearly the best way of killing a Vampire is to pick him up and swallow him whole. This is the Ogre way, although if he's against being swallowed then you fire an Ironblaster at him and eat the pieces that are left. The best way to kill a Vampire is to have him grabbed by a Giant, and then shoved into his loincloth. In fact, this is the best way to kill anything, and the most horrifying.
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Feb 18, 2016 13:44
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Elves are the worst thing ever.
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Feb 18, 2016 13:47
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Periphery posted:Elves are the worst thing ever. That may be true for the poncy fancypants cheating snob elves. It may also be true for the spiky super-edgy BDSM elves. However, it's absolutely not true for the half-fae elk-riding man-eating guerilla murder elves. Those are awesome and I will defend them to the last  
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Feb 18, 2016 13:56
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Wafflecopper posted:e2: dwarves are actually the most boring race. Ooh we have beards live in the mountains and are all heavy infantry, guns and bigger guns Just because you're technologically inferior and rely on pansy arrows doesn't mean you get to be jealous, you boy faced poo poo.
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Feb 18, 2016 14:29
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dogstile posted:you boy faced poo poo. three times older than you son don't blame me for lookin fine at my age, who are you to talk about jealousy
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Feb 18, 2016 14:58
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Perestroika posted:That may be true for the poncy fancypants cheating snob elves. It may also be true for the spiky super-edgy BDSM elves. Seriously, play Vermintide for 10 minutes, you'll be changing your tune. I love the elf she is my Warhammer waifu
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Feb 18, 2016 17:59
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Lassitude posted:I'd say vamps are probably less assholes than high elves. Vampires will fight to defend humans against Chaos, and ultimately are concerned about the future of humanity (if only because they require human blood to survive). High elves don't give a gently caress about humans and couldn't care less if they are wiped out. In the end, VCs are better friends to the humans than the high elves could ever be. Plus, old vampires only need to feed on human blood once every few years. The Vampire Counts of Sylvania barely even snatch up virgins from their human vassals. That's pretty cool of them. Yeah, this ignores Asavar Kul's great incursion, when Teclis and Co saved the Empire and taught man proper Wizardry.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:31
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Aren't the Warham High Elves generally okay people, at least their commoners? Sure, they may be snooty bastards, but at the end of the day they're gonna stand with you when Chaos comes, and share a drink in the tavern later. True, their drink would be fruitier (in more ways than one) than yours, and have a little paper umbrella in it, but it takes all sorts.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:54
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Whenever people drone on about the minutiae of warhamer lore (especially Elves for some reason) it seems like everyone just spouts whatever they think is personally cool so we have a unending tide of contradicting opinions. Elves are dicks and would leave the whole human race to die to save one of their own. Elves are cool dudes and will stand with humans through thick and thin. Elves are super prudes who raise their noses at human customs that they consider barbaric. Elves are chums and get along swimmingly with humans once they get to know them even if they are a little aloof. You will hear these contradictory statements until the end of time in any warham thread. It's probably because everyone just parrots whatever article/book/game source they personally liked the best, but after decades of lore in multiple media formats it's just unavoidable that there are contradictions. Believe whatever you want because there are no absolute truths to be had and who really cares anyway.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:03
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Elves suck
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Feb 18, 2016 19:20
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Chomp8645 posted:Whenever people drone on about the minutiae of warhamer lore (especially Elves for some reason) it seems like everyone just spouts whatever they think is personally cool so we have a unending tide of contradicting opinions. Elves are dicks and would leave the whole human race to die to save one of their own. Elves are cool dudes and will stand with humans through thick and thin. Elves are super prudes who raise their noses at human customs that they consider barbaric. Elves are chums and get along swimmingly with humans once they get to know them even if they are a little aloof. This is pretty much the only good thing that GW intentionally did.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:21
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victrix posted:Elves suck Wood Elves > High Elves > You > Dark Elves
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Feb 18, 2016 19:27
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