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MiddleEastBeast posted:Presumably, his friends are humans and not robots, so I would wager they would naturally understand what he's getting at by asking 'what do your decks cost', rather than invite their brand-new-to-the-game friend over as they start dropping revised duals against his 80-card vampire tribal deck. Presumably they also enjoy his company, and aren't out to mislead him into running his casual junk up against tuned eternal lists. If they are, it's a warning sign that his friends are just dickheads lol Psh who uses revised duals 
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Feb 18, 2016 18:03
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Tusen Takk posted:Holy loving poo poo, well that solves that Just buy a couple of intro decks, you can play with your mates. Hearthstone is somewhat limited in complexity compared to magic and you will enjoy it. Also if your mates play commander then that is a simple $30 buy in with the latest pre-built decks wizards released. All the above discussion of deck prices were regarding competitive formats that are basically as expensive as you can make it.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:08
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So as a newcomer to Magic, is there any reason not to jump on EMA when it's available for preorder for the chance to start on a Vintage deck? I know we don't actually have a setlist for it yet, but if I skip out on a booster box (or whatever the release of it looks like) for it, will I be kicking myself if I try to get into the eternal formats after the fact?
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Feb 18, 2016 18:15
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Presumably, his friends are humans and not robots, so I would wager they would naturally understand what he's getting at by asking 'what do your decks cost', rather than invite their brand-new-to-the-game friend over as they start dropping revised duals against his 80-card vampire tribal deck. Presumably they also enjoy his company, and aren't out to mislead him into running his casual junk up against tuned eternal lists. If they are, it's a warning sign that his friends are just dickheads lol I mean yes it sounds silly when you put it that way but I think you underestimate how big a misconception people can have about the financial burden of getting into the game at a given level, or how lovely nerds can be (unwittingly) while trying to get someone into their game.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:19
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Soul Glo posted:So as a newcomer to Magic, is there any reason not to jump on EMA when it's available for preorder for the chance to start on a Vintage deck? I know we don't actually have a setlist for it yet, but if I skip out on a booster box (or whatever the release of it looks like) for it, will I be kicking myself if I try to get into the eternal formats after the fact? Don't bother getting EMA unless you're drafting it, and you won't be anywhere close to Vintage anyway since there's no possible chance of there being enough valuable cards in EMA to come close to the price of one piece of Power.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:19
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Soul Glo posted:So as a newcomer to Magic, is there any reason not to jump on EMA when it's available for preorder for the chance to start on a Vintage deck? I know we don't actually have a setlist for it yet, but if I skip out on a booster box (or whatever the release of it looks like) for it, will I be kicking myself if I try to get into the eternal formats after the fact? If you want to spend the $10ish K for the other cards in a vintage deck, go for it. But it'll still be cheaper to buy the cards individually than to buy a box.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:20
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Do it, but pro-tip: keep the foil force of will you open. That'll be worth a college education for your kids.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:23
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right now we are in a uniquely lovely standard for budget decks where even the all in combat tricks and red creatures deck costs like 300 bucks wait a while and maybe just draft
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Feb 18, 2016 18:24
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DoctorOozy posted:Just buy a couple of intro decks, you can play with your mates. Hearthstone is somewhat limited in complexity compared to magic and you will enjoy it. Also if your mates play commander then that is a simple $30 buy in with the latest pre-built decks wizards released. All the above discussion of deck prices were regarding competitive formats that are basically as expensive as you can make it.  JerryLee posted:even looking at the full-size picture, I think I would bat an eye at none of those if they got tossed on the table across from me in a game or even if I was scanning through a sleeved deck. Yeah they've been playing since like 199X and are super into it so I a)didn't want to ask them because they are kind of outliers, though in retrospect much of the thread is and b) I don't like to talk about money with friends
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Feb 18, 2016 18:25
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heroic was a loving GREAT draft creatures and combat tricks budget deck, i miss it
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Feb 18, 2016 18:26
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Soul Glo posted:So as a newcomer to Magic, is there any reason not to jump on EMA when it's available for preorder for the chance to start on a Vintage deck? I know we don't actually have a setlist for it yet, but if I skip out on a booster box (or whatever the release of it looks like) for it, will I be kicking myself if I try to get into the eternal formats after the fact? Vintage isn't a format anyone actually plays in paper. Legacy is Vintage with a ban list, and it's more played, but still lags way way behind Standard and Modern in popularity. EMA will be super expensive (the packs have MSRP of $10 rather than the normal $4, retailers will probably mark them up, and the boxes only have 24 packs instead of 32.) and hard to say if it will be worth it at all. It will probably have some modern staples in the set, but to actually play legacy you need cards that won't be in Eternal Masters, specifically the original dual lands. And you might not even want to play Legacy anyway. Depending where you live it can be rare to even actually have legacy tournaments fire at all. Legacy is the most expensive Magic format that actually has any kind of player base, but it's really not the place to start. The price to buy into it is huge, it's not newbie friendly, and you don't want to spend a ton on a deck and find out you don't like it. With ANY set, just buying a booster box and opening it is a losing proposition unless you get really lucky. Sets like Modern Masters and Eternal Masters will have a few super expensive rares, so if you get really lucky and open a foil Wasteland or something you'll have made back the price of the box, but you're more likely to open a bunch of $1 rares and a few $10 - $15 dollar ones and maybe a $50 one and still not have broken even on what you paid for the box. At best you're paying more than $200 for a box (probably closer to $250) and that gets you 24 shots at a money card and it is very very possible to whiff and only open like $50-$100 worth of cards. And that's even going by sell prices rather than actual buylist prices. Do not expect to buy a box of Eternal masters and be able to build a legacy deck from it. It doesn't work that way. Anyway, boosters are for drafting. Draft is a super fun way to play magic and I recommend anyone who's getting into the game consider learning how to do it, but sets like EMA are probably not where you want to start. It will cost a ton to draft it and will probably not be a good intro draft set for new players. Entropic fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 18:26
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Thanks for the advice. Will be steering clear of EMA then! Still cool as a release though.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:31
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Soul Glo posted:So as a newcomer to Magic, is there any reason not to jump on EMA when it's available for preorder for the chance to start on a Vintage deck? I know we don't actually have a setlist for it yet, but if I skip out on a booster box (or whatever the release of it looks like) for it, will I be kicking myself if I try to get into the eternal formats after the fact? Yes because the reserved list still exists and everything you'll need that's on it is going to triple in price over the next few months.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:33
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UberJew posted:heroic was a loving GREAT draft creatures and combat tricks budget deck, i miss it god yea.. I had my best event performance at the Manchester Theros block constructed GP with that deck, then hammered it for that standard period. It was my first propper constructed deck and cost, well nothing.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:36
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Entropic posted:Vintage isn't a format anyone actually plays in paper. Uhhhh. I know what you're trying to say but this is entirely dependent on region. There's a pretty healthy vintage community here on the east coast. Everything else you said is correct, though. Don't buy EMA hoping to get into legacy or vintage. That's just not feasible.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:36
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People seem to think EMA will trigger a huge surge in the popularity of Legacy but I have my doubts as to whether that will actually happen or last if it does. There's still huge barriers to entry to actually having a good Legacy deck. EMA is hardly going to make a dent in the cost of Legacy, and the cost is way more of a barrier than people not being aware of the format.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:36
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Cernunnos posted:Yes because the reserved list still exists and everything you'll need that's on it is going to triple in price over the next few months. Even if the reserve list were gone legacy decks prices would still stay the same if not increase. The reserve list is a hard cap on potential supply of some cards for sure but just look at modern deck prices to see how little potential supply actually affects entry price into the format - relative supply vs demand is enough to drive prices to unreasonable levels.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:39
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They released the print run details for vintage masters and I think its smaller than mm15.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:40
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Pussy Snorkel posted:Uhhhh. I know what you're trying to say but this is entirely dependent on region. There's a pretty healthy vintage community here on the east coast. A healthy vintage community is how many people? A few dozen, maaaybe a couple hundred in one or two large metro areas? A couple big tournaments a year that all the hardcore old vintage players travel for? Compared to tens of thousands of people playing Standard and standard FNMs firing every week in hundreds of cities, and Standard GPs all over the place hitting four-figure attendance as a matter of routine. For all intents and purposes, to a new player, paper Vintage might as well not exist. Yes there are people who drink $10,000-a-bottle vintage champagne but it's not exactly relevant for someone asking about getting into wine-tasting.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:42
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JerryLee posted:I mean yes it sounds silly when you put it that way but I think you underestimate how big a misconception people can have about the financial burden of getting into the game at a given level, or how lovely nerds can be (unwittingly) while trying to get someone into their game. This is definitely true when discussing getting into vintage or legacy. People are like "Sure, the formats expensive, but I patiently put my deck together over time, trading for what I needed, etc. It can be done!" Then you find out they've been drafting 3 times a week since 1997.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:52
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Entropic posted:A healthy vintage community is how many people? A few dozen, maaaybe a couple hundred in one or two large metro areas? A couple big tournaments a year that all the hardcore old vintage players travel for? Compared to tens of thousands of people playing Standard and standard FNMs firing every week in hundreds of cities, and Standard GPs all over the place hitting four-figure attendance as a matter of routine. Entropic posted:People seem to think EMA will trigger a huge surge in the popularity of Legacy but I have my doubts as to whether that will actually happen or last if it does. There's still huge barriers to entry to actually having a good Legacy deck. EMA is hardly going to make a dent in the cost of Legacy, and the cost is way more of a barrier than people not being aware of the format.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:00
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Entropic posted:People seem to think EMA will trigger a huge surge in the popularity of Legacy but I have my doubts as to whether that will actually happen or last if it does. There's still huge barriers to entry to actually having a good Legacy deck. EMA is hardly going to make a dent in the cost of Legacy, and the cost is way more of a barrier than people not being aware of the format. I think it will have a minor effect. Modern Masters didn't have huge print runs and still motivated players to move into the format, I think EMA will do the same just in smaller numbers. You're going to get players who suddenly get a playset of Force of Will suddenly go "I guess I could pick up the pieces for something"
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Feb 18, 2016 19:01
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Entropic posted:Yes there are people who drink $10,000-a-bottle vintage champagne but it's not exactly relevant for someone asking about getting into wine-tasting. This is probably the best analogy for the intent of my question. EMA's not what I thought/hoped it would be (but that's fine though).
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Feb 18, 2016 19:02
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Sickening posted:They released the print run details for vintage masters and I think its smaller than mm15. Are there any decent estimates on the number of Force of Wills in the world, and how many will be added by this set?
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Feb 18, 2016 19:07
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Soul Glo posted:This is probably the best analogy for the intent of my question. EMA's not what I thought/hoped it would be (but that's fine though). Yeah dude, it sounds like what you're after would be something a different game offers, not magic. Both yugioh and force of will have both competitive starter tins and mini-sets that are explicitly designed to get you up to speed. Magic choose to put those options behind pack paywalls.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:08
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UberJew posted:right now we are in a uniquely lovely standard for budget decks where even the all in combat tricks and red creatures deck costs like 300 bucks Standard is poo poo, modern is poo poo, legacy is dead. Something something MaRo's vision
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Feb 18, 2016 19:09
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Every format except my format is poo poo. What's my format? You should know that.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:09
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http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/eternal-masters 2–3 cases for WPN Core level stores 3–6 cases for WPN Advanced level stores 6–12 cases for WPN Advanced Plus level stores
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Feb 18, 2016 19:10
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Entropic posted:People seem to think EMA will trigger a huge surge in the popularity of Legacy but I have my doubts as to whether that will actually happen or last if it does. There's still huge barriers to entry to actually having a good Legacy deck. EMA is hardly going to make a dent in the cost of Legacy, and the cost is way more of a barrier than people not being aware of the format. The target audience seems to be people who have duals and other reserved list cards but no other staples. So uh, nobody.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:10
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Sickening posted:http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/eternal-masters 
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Feb 18, 2016 19:10
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Sickening posted:http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/eternal-masters Those are likely initial allocations. My old LGS was told similar numbers for both Modern Masters sets and the eventual supply we received was significantly higher. I sold some 8 cases of the first Modern Masters here on SA Mart alone. EDIT: Yup. Those are just starting allocations. WPN posted:Because of the popularity of Eternal Masters, the distribution will be partially allocation based. We're doing this to ensure this product is as evenly distributed as possible. Signing up in Wizards Event Reporter guarantees an amount of product as determined by your WPN level. You may be able to order more through your preferred distribution source, depending on availability. Similar stuff was said about both Modern Masters sets and I'm pretty confident you could call ACD today and get a box or two of the latest one. So its not really cause for concern. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 19:12
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suicidesteve posted:The target audience seems to be people who have duals and other reserved list cards but no other staples. So uh, nobody. The target audience is people who like 35$ drafts.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:12
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Count Bleck posted:Every format except my format is poo poo. I like all of the Eternal formats. I'm a bad man.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:12
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That MSRP is making my eyes bulge. Because that is not what it's actually going to go for.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:12
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figures for mm15 were 2-3/5-6/9-12, so this is a smaller run and they're just keeping the high end the same so it doesn't look like it
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Feb 18, 2016 19:13
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Star Man posted:I like all of the Eternal formats. I'm a bad man. Do you like Modeem during Eldrazi winter?
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Feb 18, 2016 19:14
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TheKingofSprings posted:Do you like Modeem during Eldrazi winter? I'm lovin it.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:19
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Count Bleck posted:That MSRP is making my eyes bulge. I guess I just expect them to avoid stepping on the toes of Modern Masters itself and a lot of the expensive Legacy cards are the same cards as in Modern. I'm struggling to think of a Mythic list they could actually print that would, on average, exceed the value of the Modern Masters ones. I suppose the real kicker would be if ZEN fetches are really in. suicidesteve posted:The target audience seems to be people who have duals and other reserved list cards but no other staples. So uh, nobody. The target of the set is every Magic player that makes poor decisions with their money, so everybody. I mean, people are buying $300 dual lands to buy into a format they can't afford because some unknown cards will get marginally cheaper. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 19:48
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Angry Grimace posted:I suppose the real kicker would be if ZEN fetches are really in.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:59
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Everblight posted:they aren't wasting the reprint equity of fetches on a superlimited high end product that will sell out instantly even if every mythic besides fow is commander trash like rikku you take that back she's infinitely more playable than kimahri
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Feb 18, 2016 20:01
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