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Devlan Mud posted:T-70s are popular because Poe is popular (and "Red Ace" to a lesser extent), not on the strength of the ship itself. The boost action and tallon rolls are a nice touch but you're not seeing many people load up on the T-70 generics. I want to paint a Poe and Finn husbando pillow edition on a second falcon if I ever get good enough  He's really popular.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:10
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Chill la Chill posted:Sorry brah. Facing against a whisper, you will always want to take initiative. Facing a soontir, you will want to give initiative. The bonuses for the other choice aren't enough. The only choice is if they're playing an older whisper/soontir/shuttle or ace build, and in that case you choose to go first so you can blow up whisper before it gets any damage in. Because soontir doesn't have reliable damage output unless it takes targeting computer in which case lol. If you're up against high PS like Soontir, it doesn't matter if you shoot first if they arc dodge you. Honestly the only 100% take initiative choice is against PS9 Han because he will kill you in a hurry.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:10
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Chill la Chill posted:
Errr, no? Giving init away with Whisper is perfectly acceptable if you are dodging arcs, because who cares if you shoot second when you're the only ship shooting at all. Also, this idea that Whisper wants to just shoot first so you can pray the green dice don't go sideways on you is bad thinking. It's always better to not be shot at all than to roll dice, even when the odds are stacked in your favor.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:11
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The Gate posted:Errr, no? Giving init away with Whisper is perfectly acceptable if you are dodging arcs, because who cares if you shoot second when you're the only ship shooting at all.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:16
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Panzeh posted:If you're up against high PS like Soontir, it doesn't matter if you shoot first if they arc dodge you. Add Dengar to that once wave 8 hits. But yeah, this post is exactly why you don't automatically take init with Whisper. On top of this, if the game comes to a point where it is a range 1 shot of Whisper against Fel, Whisper is more durable. 2 agility plus an evade and 4hp, versus 4 green focus/evade, 3hp. Soontir cannot kill Whisper in one shot without a direct hit/major explosion. Whisper can kill Soontir with just normal hits. Neither option is likely, but Soontir taking any damage at all is much scarier than Whisper taking even 2-3 damage in this scenario.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:16
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Chill la Chill posted:Then you're using the wrong ace. You want to be using Soontir in this case. Sure, because Soontir is the only ship that dodges arcs? I mean, I get that you only fly pancakes generally, but stop being deliberately obtuse dude.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:19
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The Gate posted:Soontir cannot kill Whisper in one shot without a direct hit/major explosion. Whisper can kill Soontir with just normal hits. Neither option is likely, but Soontir taking any damage at all is much scarier than Whisper taking even 2-3 damage in this scenario.  Range 1 soontir has four red dice, whisper has four EHP. Surely you can figure this out?
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Feb 18, 2016 19:20
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Evade action. Surely you can figure this out? Edit: Actually since you didn't: R1 Soontir: 4 reds. 4 Ehp (3 hull, 1 evade) R1 Whisper: 5 reds. 5 ehp (2 hull 2 shield, 1 evade)
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Feb 18, 2016 19:20
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The Gate posted:Evade action. Surely you can figure this out? I forgot you got an automatic evade action every turn with Whisper, sorry brah.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:22
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You don't, though. But we're talking about a scenario where Whisper is shooting second. So, if you end up nose to nose with Soontir, and since you moved second, you can just choose to evade. Even more likely if you already have a TL from FCS.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:23
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Chill la Chill posted:Sorry brah. Facing against a whisper, you will always want to take initiative. Facing a soontir, you will want to give initiative. The bonuses for the other choice aren't enough. The only choice is if they're playing an older whisper/soontir/shuttle or ace build, and in that case you choose to go first so you can blow up whisper before it gets any damage in. Because soontir doesn't have reliable damage output unless it takes targeting computer in which case lol. Except having initiative vs. Whisper to shoot first doesn't matter because of the simultaneous attack rule.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:26
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Finster Dexter posted:Except having initiative vs. Whisper to shoot first doesn't matter because of the simultaneous attack rule. Whisper does get the cloak when she shoots first even in simultaneous fire situations. All the effects from crits/firing, etc. apply in order, it's just a dead ship gets to shoot.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:28
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The Gate posted:Sure, because Soontir is the only ship that dodges arcs? I mean, I get that you only fly pancakes generally, but stop being deliberately obtuse dude. E: eh, whatever play what you want, I'll just continue to posting about paintjobs and my husbando.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:28
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Panzeh posted:Whisper does get the cloak when she shoots first even in simultaneous fire situations. All the effects from crits/firing, etc. apply in order, it's just a dead ship gets to shoot. Oh, I didn't realize that.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:29
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Whisper v Soontir I'd definitely throw down on whisper moving second. You can cut down Soontir's post dial movement significantly as he'll probably err on the side of caution and token tank more, making him more predictable and easier to get into your arc. Then it's just a matter of hoping his dice fail first. Edit: But only in isolation. It's a list by list judgement. If they have vader also then ceding initiative is no brainer because you'll get wrecked. hoiyes fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 19:32
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Of course there are situations where you'd want to have Whisper yield initiative, but at the beginning of the match if you choose to keep initiative, that's going to be the right choice more often than not.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:37
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alg posted:Plenty of Rebel ships have barrel roll already. Awesome generic Astros would make me really happy, as would viable Rebel E/X/Y, and this would be easier than giving the T65 post-maneuver repositioning that didn't step on the T70. But the T65 and the E-Wing also need titles or *something* to help them stand out, and I don't see much design and theme space around the T65 except going for proton torp synergy and some kind of dial improvements to give a 5 ehp ship a role that isn't one of the already-filled niches. ATC was a great fix because it's iconic from the movie, easy to play, and opened up a cool new design theme (holding target locks). T65s need something similar. They have a ton of great pilots just begging for a slightly better ship...maybe a set of red maneuvers and a stress-soaking Rogue Squadron title? I dunno.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:41
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The whisper soontir discussion is moot anyway because you should always run whisper with Decivader  Edit: Give T-65s a 2 speed sloop. hoiyes fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 19:42
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Chill la Chill posted:You take whisper for better damage output, which is why it was more popular during the large ship era. I mean, I don't usually talk about tactics and strat here cuz I tend to only do that with the ~nova secret paul heaver worshipping cabal~ but like I was pretty sure this is basic accepted X-Wing List Theory by now. Sure, Soontir is much better at dodging arcs, but Whisper is still an arc dodger. Moving second versus Fel is a Big Deal. And I know you play with Paul Heaver, but he's not the only person who has insight on the game or a competitive group. I learned to play from Rick, who won Nationals (and lost to Heaver narrowly at worlds), and our group does a lot of playing, testing, and is generally very competitive. This is really my whole point on this derail, actually. Lately, this thread has become full of people making very broad, declarative statements that are opinions, but phrasing them as of they're common sense facts. It's not helpful to discussion at large of the meta or specific lists/ships, and it's misleading, especially to newer players. I have no qualms with someone disagreeing with me, or anyone else, and arguing over what does and doesn't work, etc. But statements like: Chill la Chill posted:Sorry brah. Facing against a whisper, you will always want to take initiative. Facing a soontir, you will want to give initiative. The bonuses for the other choice aren't enough. Are both inaccurate and have a serious "I know more than you, pleb" attitude.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:45
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Yes that's typically why I don't discuss tactics and strategy here. I mostly like posting Star Wars related stuff since the GBS thread was goldmined, and paint jobs from time to time.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:48
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General Battuta posted:Awesome generic Astros would make me really happy, as would viable Rebel E/X/Y, and this would be easier than giving the T65 post-maneuver repositioning that didn't step on the T70. But the T65 and the E-Wing also need titles or *something* to help them stand out, and I don't see much design and theme space around the T65 except going for proton torp synergy and some kind of dial improvements to give a 5 ehp ship a role that isn't one of the already-filled niches. I like the idea of proton torp synergy. Something that lets you fire a torpedo off someone else's target lock or lets you reacquire the target lock after firing like FCS.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:52
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General Battuta posted:Awesome generic Astros would make me really happy, as would viable Rebel E/X/Y, and this would be easier than giving the T65 post-maneuver repositioning that didn't step on the T70. But the T65 and the E-Wing also need titles or *something* to help them stand out, and I don't see much design and theme space around the T65 except going for proton torp synergy and some kind of dial improvements to give a 5 ehp ship a role that isn't one of the already-filled niches. Extra Munitions as an astromech?
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Feb 18, 2016 19:55
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canyoneer posted:I like the idea of proton torp synergy. Something that lets you fire a torpedo off someone else's target lock or lets you reacquire the target lock after firing like FCS. Eh. 'We fixed X-Wings by forcing you to spend points on a torpedo, an astromech and use your modification on guidance chips' doesn't sound all that great.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:56
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ro5s posted:Eh. 'We fixed X-Wings by forcing you to spend points on a torpedo, an astromech and use your modification on guidance chips' doesn't sound all that great. It'd at least add a new niche in Rebels, since their more traditional bombers are all better off with other roles, whether it's the jousting efficiency of the B-Wing or the turret-platform Y and K-Wings.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:00
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Enhanced S-Foils (0 pt mod, T-65 X-wing only) When you reveal a bank maneuver, you may instead perform a Segnor loop at the same speed and bearing. If the revealed maneuver is white, gain a stress. (hopefully some synergy with generic r2?) New Republic X-Wing (0 pt title, T-65 X-wing only) When you attack a ship with a red target lock token, if that token belongs to a ship with the New Republic X-Wing title, you may gain a target lock. You may spend target locks belonging to other ships with the New Republic X-Wing title. (hopefully some generic r7 synergy?) Rogue Squadron X-Wing (0 pt title, T-65 X-wing only) When you receive stress, place that stress on this title. When this title holds three stress, remove all stress on this title and discard it. Torpedo Specialist - I dunno what this should be When you change a [focus] result to a [crit], you may add 1 [hit] result to your roll. The first time each turn you change a blank result to a [focus], assign a focus token to your ship. General Battuta fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 20:07
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General Battuta posted:Enhanced S-Foils (0 pt mod, T-65 X-wing only) This except as a title. Green Sloop erryday. High PS pilots gain, while not post dial movement exactly, manoeuvre options after dial reveal.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:21
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A title that reads something along the lines of "The first time you complete a green maneuver in a turn, you may execute a red maneuver of the same speed." Synergy with R2 Astromech, R2-D2, and Targeting Astromech.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:45
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Finally getting some more games in, had a fun one last night running an Imp Kath build: Kath Scarlet VI Mangler Cannon Tactician Engine Upgrade Carnor Jax PtL Royal Guard Autothrusters Stealth Device Epsilon Squad Pilot Normally I'd fly Soontir but my opponent had just played against him twice so I switched it up (ended up regretting it). Opponent was running BB-8 Poe with PtL, Ello with Daredevil, and Blue Ace. Ended up being a really interesting match-up, all the boosting and crazy maneuverability of the T-70s made it hard to get my front arc/range bands for the double stress attack, and Integrated Astros laugh at my ability to push crits if they do go through. Endgame was untouched Carnor against Poe with no astromech and one hull left. Tried to get fancy and arc dodge instead of just tokening up, didn't get it by a fraction. Poe shot first, direct hit happened and that was game. Carnor ended up negating my own combo in one round, causing a crit to go through on a shield. I'd rather have had the double stress if I'm not going to be killing something immediately. Similarly, as tempting as a 4-dice primary and TL might be I need to think of Kath as a control piece and not a jouster. I think I'd rather deal stress and take an evade going head-to-head than do a couple shields and eat a faceful of return fire.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:00
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This is really cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK92gFG-YUA . I want to see admiral ackbar pilot that ship in the game. 
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Feb 18, 2016 21:09
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Strobe posted:A title that reads something along the lines of "The first time you complete a green maneuver in a turn, you may execute a red maneuver of the same speed." Do you mean having it work kind of like SLAM? Pick a second maneuver and it becomes red? Because that would be pretty sweet for X-Wings, yeah. Otherwise there's only the 4k.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:16
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Chill la Chill posted:This is really cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK92gFG-YUA . I want to see admiral ackbar pilot that ship in the game. That was the best thing, LEGO Star Wars owns.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:20
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Yeah, like a SLAM that's restricted to green speed moves, and isn't an action. Go nuts, Hobbie with Targeting Astro. And anything with Adrenaline Rush or Cool Hand or a Targeting Astro.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:22
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Boba Fett strips your ship's title? BB-8 crew disguises it! 
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Feb 18, 2016 21:23
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That was great, Poe owns, Ackbar owns. Poe getting those last two TIEs was fantastic.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:25
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Hey there, got a tournament tomorrow (well, actually it's technically a 'pre-tournament tournament', but is still using a tourney kit for prizes etc I believe), and I'm still undecided between the below two lists, despite sitting on them and thinking about it for a fair while now.  Which do you all think offers a better chance against most in-meta lists? Since unfortunately (in one sense) the people I normally play with don't use anything resembling a meta-/netlist, so naturally I've got no idea whether my successes and failures against their lists will translate into roughly the same results against currently-popular lists.(Also FYI they're not allowing unreleased content, so that's why the Scum list isn't packed with those sweet sweet JumpMaster upgrade cards) quote:Gold Squadron Pilot — Y-Wing 18 So yeah, I picked Ten Numb since I actually don't like Poe as much as everyone else seems to - I mean, sure he seems alright, but I don't think he's really much better than Wedge or TN+Mangler; or even Red Ace in terms of durability (not PS though obviously). And I DO like that guaranteed crit on my tried-and-true Ten Numb. Especially if it's on a recently triple-stressed Soontir, who can't boost or roll. quote:Bossk — YV-666 35 This one though is a little bit different; I like using the hellbus a fair bit, with the Mangler and Bossk's ability. However I'm not terribly used to miniswarms (this is actually the only list featuring one that I've used in at least six months), so things tend to get hairy if I get Bossk stuck behind the Zs, or something. Normally I have the miniswarm around the middle, and Bossk on the side of the mat - then have Bossk race up and then turn hard towards the centre of the mat to flank hostiles that are hopefully headed in the general direction of the slow-rolling Z swarm. So yeah, any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated - especially as I haven't been able to practice much at all, in the last few weeks.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:59
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Generic R2, do donuts in space forever. Profit?
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Feb 18, 2016 22:02
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Yeah, I'm thinking about replacing Corran Horn in my Dash+Corran list with Ten Numb+Mangler. I know Corran is better on paper, but it just is not at all working for me, and b-wings are cool.
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Feb 18, 2016 22:11
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Chill la Chill posted:Yes that's typically why I don't discuss tactics and strategy here. I mostly like posting Star Wars related stuff since the GBS thread was goldmined, and paint jobs from time to time. I don't think "choose to take initiative or not based on the situation/what you are facing" is such a controversial opinion. EDIT: My problem is this "Sorry brah. Facing against a whisper, you will always want to take initiative. Facing a soontir, you will want to give initiative. The bonuses for the other choice aren't enough. " What if you are a whisper facing Soontir? What if your opponent has both ships in his list? There are situations where the above doesn't hold true. Tekopo fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 22:51
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I think T-65s are lacking more in upgrades than maneuverability. Yeah, yeah, they're not maneuverable since they lack repositioning, but they're genuinely not supposed to be maneuverable. They're agile in comparison to poo poo like Y-Wings and B-Wings, not TIEs or A-Wings. They were the Wildcat to the TIE Fighter's Zero (while the T-70 would be the Hellcat if you extend the analogy). Where I feel they're lacking is in the tank and utility department, not combat maneuverability. Their dial is actually quite solid. So what I'd rather see is something along the lines of Royal Guard TIE or A-Wing Test Pilot, giving them greater access to synergy combinations (like Integrated Astromech + Guidance Chips, or IA + Engine Upgrade, etc). Example: Title: Rogue Squadron Cost: 1 Point (at most) T-65 X-Wing Only +1 Modification Slot. +1 EPT Slot if your ship card already has an EPT Slot. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 23:29
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So, Royal Gaurd Tie, and Awing test pilots shoved together?
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Feb 18, 2016 23:35
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