quote:

What new problems did it introduce that completely surprised you?

Luke: The difficulty of getting stores to carry the products and the "back stock" issue. If a
store sells 90% of a display every month, that's great, but in 5 months they have 5 different
display boxes, each 10% full lying around - that's a lot of shelf space!

Ryan: Inventory problems at the distributor and retail level.

Irritation and player disinterest at the lack of card rarity (a problem that I absolutely would
never have believed possible after having read literally thousands of messages bemoaning the
existence of rare cards.)

Lack of marketing focus; we were competiting with ourselves more than with anyone else.
Near total disbelief from our own internal sales team and the distributors; they simply couldn't
wrap their brains around the concept and it hurt us badly.

Toshimo posted:

Zoness posted:

Basically they sold way less product when it was easy for people to get what they needed, because as it turns out people who want to play the game are willing to begrudgingly fork over money to play the game while the insane collector people love going after the stupid rare poo poo while on the other hand with flattened rarities both parties buy less product.

Konstantin posted:

Wizards did try selling cheap 6 card boosters at Walmart, but they were discontinued a few years ago.

Toshimo posted:

Oh poo poo, let me tell you one of the things I loving DESPISE is loving turdlord stores that have hundreds of cubic feet devoted to ancient half-filled CCG booster boxes that have been rotting there at above MSRP for decades. Holy poo poo, just ebay that poo poo at half the price or something and fix your loving storefront you packrat assholes.

Count Bleck posted:

I have one of these in my area.

I wasn't even aware there was a WWE TCG until I went in there.

Sotar posted:

Ahhhh Raw Deal. I played that until poser creep made it so unless you played the new guys every set, you were playing a worthless deck.

Toshimo posted:

Oh poo poo, let me tell you one of the things I loving DESPISE is loving turdlord stores that have hundreds of cubic feet devoted to ancient half-filled CCG booster boxes that have been rotting there at above MSRP for decades. Holy poo poo, just ebay that poo poo at half the price or something and fix your loving storefront you packrat assholes.

UberJew posted:

The solution, of course, appears to have been for them to tap out completely and instead be replaced by no randomness whatsoever in the upcoming ffg lcg

Toshimo posted:

Ok, so here's a cool little writeup on how Raw Deal did a certain thing with deck construction (and a few other card games did to some extent as well). It's sort of a giant monolithic precuror to ~The Command Zone~ (or a spiritual successor to Vanguard) but with a lot more intricacy since it's designed into the game (well, it kept getting bolted on, in this case).

So, you start with your superstar card:



The Heat Seekers
Superstar - Tag Team
Starting Hand Size: 8
Superstar Value: 7
Discard 2 cards: Exile 2 target cards from your graveyard. Shuffle another 2 target cards from your graveyard into your library. Then, choose one - * Draw 2 cards * Search your library for a Heel or Cheater card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. Activate this ability only during your turn and only once each turn.

Pretty self-explanatory. By selecting this card, you also restrict yourself to only generic cards and The Heat Seekers branded cards. Superstar Value is occasionally referenced in the game (i.e. do X damage to a player where X is their Superstar Value), but the primary purpose is that the higher SV player goes first in each portion of the game.

So, with that card, you may also reveal Backstage Area cards. Some Superstars let you reveal certain specific cards, but these guys don't, so you only get the generic cards:

BACKSTAGE AREA (3)
Backstage Signature - (Tournament Prize) Unique Backstage - Your opponent's Superstar Value is -1.
Raw Deal 5th Anniversary - (Tournament Prize) Unique Backstage - Turn this card face down: Overturn 5 cards from your library. Then choose 5 cards in your graveyard and shuffle them into your library. Activate this ability only during your turn.
WWE Signing Appearance - (Tournament Prize) Unique Backstage - Your Superstar value is +1. At the end of the Pre-match phase, each player may put a card from their hand on top of their library. Each player that does, draws a card.

Now, here's the hitch: Everyone wants to play all 3 of these. They are basically 3 free cards in terms of deck construction, they each do something good, and they are all generic and unique. They are all also tournament prizes (see also: mechanically unique promos).
Obviously, the Signature and Appearance cancel each other out for Superstar Value, but if you don't have them, WELP GET hosed.

After you do all that, you move on to the Pre-match phase. Pre-match cards are part of what is, effectively, a 20-card sideboard, called a Backlash Deck, split evenly into 10 Pre-match and 10 Mid-match cards. The player can look at their Backlash Deck at any time, and play any card in the deck at its appropriate time (Pre-match - in the pre-match phase, Mid-match - during normal play, they have normal card types). Backlash cards are differentiated from normal cards easily as they are printed sideways. Normal cards cannot be part of the Backlash Deck.

So, Superstar Values are checked, First Player is determined, then the following sequence happens:

Active Player (AP) may play a Pre-Match Venue. Non-Active Player (NAP) may play a Pre-Match Venue.
AP may play a Pre-Match Feud. NAP may play a Pre-Match Feud.
AP may play a Pre-Match Stipulation. NAP may play a Pre-Match Stipulation.
AP may play a Pre-Match Manager. NAP may play a Pre-Match Manager.
AP may play a Pre-Match Feud. NAP may play a Pre-Match Feud.
AP and NAP then take turns playing Pre-Match Objects and Events until both players pass consecutively (like MtG priority in phases). However, by default, each player can only play 5 of their 10 Pre-Match cards total.

{Editor's Note: There's a few of terms you'll need to know to undersand this part: Active, Unique, and Universal.
Unique: Restricted to 1 per deck.
Active: Only 1 may be in play at a time. You may not play another until this one is removed.
Universally Unique: No player may play another copy of this card.
Universally Active: No player may play another card with the same Type.}

So, the Pre-Match for this deck looked a little like this:

BACKLASH DECK (20)
Pre-match (10)

On Your Home Turf - Universally Active Pre-Match Venue - (The Heat Seekers Branded) - Indestructible. At the end of the Pre-Match phase, your opponent may choose 4 cards from their hand, and place them on the bottom of their library. If they do not, they must exile 2 cards from their hand, chosen randomly.
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada - Universally Active Pre-Match Venue - Indestructible. Your Superstar value is -4. Your opponent's Superstar Value is -6.

Bitter Rivals - Universally Unique Pre-Match Feud - If your SV is lower than your opponent's, you are the Active Player for the rest of the Pre-Match Phase. If your SV is greater than your opponent's, Title Belt cards cannot be played. If your SV is equal to your opponent's, choose either of the above options.

Hell in a Cell Match - Active Pre-Match Stipulation - Indestructible. Run-in cards cannot be played. If a card would leave the graveyard due to any card or effect, instead it remains in the graveyard. Cards with the following brands are not affected by this card: Chris Jericho, Kane, Mankind, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Triple H, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Cacust Jack, Deadman Inc, and Shawn Michaels.

Managed by Vince McMahon - Universally Unique Pre-Match Manager - At the end of the Pre-Match Phase: Choose two - * Target Stipulation an opponent controls loses all abilities while this card is in play * Destroy target Title Belt an opponent controls * Return up to 2 cards from your graveyard to your hand. * +2 Mid-Match Card Limit while this card is in play.
Managed by Terri Runnels - Universally Unique Pre-Match Manager Heel - Your opponent's Starting Hand Size is -1. Sacrifice this: Counter target card that allows your opponent to search his library for 1 or more cards. End the Turn.

It’s All About the Game - Unique Pre-Match Event - Play only if you control no other Pre-match events. Your Starting Hand Size is -5. All players place all cards in their Backlash Deck into their graveyard.
Calling You Out - Unique Pre-Match Event - Your opponent reveals their Backlash Deck. Choose 1 Pre-match Event or Object. Your opponent must play that card as their next Pre-match card, if possible.
Old School Wrestling Match - Unique Pre-Match Event - The next Pre-match card played by your opponent loses all abilities before it enters the battlefield. At the end of the Pre-match phase, destroy that card.
United States Title Belt - Universally Unique Pre-Match Object - (Smackdown Branded) - Your Superstar value is +1. Your opponent's Pre-match card limit is reduced by 1.

Unfortunately, I realized about 75% of the way through that I accidentally chose a lousy example since the back half of the Pre-match deck is devoted to cancelling out your opponent's Pre-match cards, but... you get the idea.

It's a neat thing I'd like to see some other CCGs do well. OG Star Trek CCG could spend as much time setting up the pre-game as actually playing, the poo poo was so intricate. I don;t think MtG could ever really go this way, but it's a fun thought exercise.

Yawgmoth posted:

I remember being in a store like that a few years ago. HUGE loving case of singles, half of them were dollar rares. And stacked on top of that case were boxes with 2-8 packs from 2+ blocks past, all at least double MSRP. Like come on guys, no one's gonna spend $11 on a random Invasion pack.

Toshimo posted:

Oh poo poo, let me tell you one of the things I loving DESPISE is loving turdlord stores that have hundreds of cubic feet devoted to ancient half-filled CCG booster boxes that have been rotting there at above MSRP for decades. Holy poo poo, just ebay that poo poo at half the price or something and fix your loving storefront you packrat assholes.

Serperoth posted:

My store has a small table with some oddity stuff on it (ancient CCGs and non-card TCG-like games, that kind of thing), but it's not a lot of floor space and has some possibly interesting stuff in/on it (L5R, I got some Duel Masters from it, etc).

Zoness posted:

LCGs don't sell anywhere near the volume of a TCG/CCG though.

Sotar posted:

I had a The Rock deck which revolved around going first, playing a move that was hard to counter if it was the first card played (pump kick, I think) then sitting on a prematch card that let me play giant reversals for tons of damage.

Then they made Batista, which made all reversals do no damage to him and I quit after that.

Konstantin posted:

Also, do what it takes to keep Standard staples in stock. Having it marked above SCG isn't ideal, but there are too many LGSs that simply do not have the cards that people want to play. I'd spend a lot more at my LGS if I could count on them having what I want, but since they don't I order 90% of my cards online without even checking the LGS first.

Toshimo posted:

Cactrot posted:

You must tell me that this is the actual name of card and not a photoshop.

Toshimo posted:

Serperoth posted:

indeed, that's just... Just stock that away.
The way I see it, it will only sell in one of two ways. Either someone will go in, specifically asking for Hulk TCG boosters or something, or they'll see it, and pick it up if it's ridiculously cheap. For the former, you don't need space, and for the latter, you can have a small table with junk on it (sorta like my LGS).

Foreskin Problems posted:

I'll endeavor to go to FNM tomorrow to snap pics of the dead tcg tower at my store, featuring the Tomb Raider and X-Files card games.

gwrtheyrn posted:

Before khans stopped being drafted

Toshimo posted:

Lightning Lord posted:

I guess I'll shop around and pick up the Khans fetches on TCG. That and maybe shocks plus bad EDH lands like the Tainted cycle should be all I ever need.


Thanks I'll just hop in my time machine because I'm Rip Hunter and give myself money.

Tusen Takk posted:

Lol if you think they let part timers get overtime, much less anything over 27.75hrs/wk